Legislative Forum

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This is a forum for the discussion of the proposed Shambala Bill and other legislative issues concerning animal ownership.  Please keep your debates civil,  and do not post material which is knowingly inaccurate. Anti private ownership entities monitor this BB, so be careful about posting personal information.  Known offenders or trolls will not be allowed to post here.
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Paza si sisteme de securitate

by Paza si sisteme de securitate

Paza si sisteme de securitate, supraveghere video , sisteme de alarma Paza si sisteme de securitate - Sibiu

Posted on Mar 18, 2009, 4:21 PM

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wordpress for dummies

by



Posted on Dec 7, 2008, 8:39 AM

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sctoifqzi

by

Bjxep7 <a href="http://gbmkffjkgzhn.com/">gbmkffjkgzhn</a>, [url=http://huwgbfxjgtfd.com/]huwgbfxjgtfd[/url], [link=http://ahqbgbjdjwsy.com/]ahqbgbjdjwsy[/link], http://zjvyocjyload.com/

Posted on Aug 8, 2008, 4:30 AM

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Microchip pets

by

I was wondering if there is a law to ensure my pet is returned to me if it has a microchip? If it is found and someone discovers the chip how do I know say a vet or shelter will return it?

Posted on Aug 24, 2006, 8:46 PM

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need to know how to prove ownership in ohio

by Stephanie

my husband's ex-fiance sent in our golden retriever's papers in her name and has not had possesion of the dog in three years. now we want to breed him but we have to get her to transfer papers. does anyone know how to find laws in ohio that legally prove that the dog has been abandoned??? any help would be appreciated. thanks

Posted on Dec 11, 2004, 12:16 AM

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Re: need to know how to prove ownership in ohio

by Jenn

Yeah, don't breed your dog... there are already enough dying in shelters!

Posted on Mar 7, 2005, 1:41 PM

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unmasked

by alisha

Alright Ladies and Gentlemen, here’s how it is like to own a wolf mix. He is athletic, likes to play with kids and dogs, fearful of cats (probably was smacked before) and enjoys a good deer chase. He doesn’t know yet that they are meat, but there’s something important about them. He stays close when I take wooded trails; if I sit down he’ll find a stick to chew on – without an expressed acknowledgement of my presence, but with an overall healthy attitude toward life. On the way back it’s a different story however. HE runs ahead and waits with his back hunched and eyes fixed. In a second the attack will begin. Of course it will end in 3 or 4 seconds after he gets a knee in his chest or a fist between his eyes.
It’s evening; time to go to sleep. He’s upset because you didn’t let him in your bedroom. Quietly he will sit in the dark on my antique sofa with his head hanging over the armrest without responding to my voice. The only thing that can bring him back is to say “good boy, good boy”. With this, he will look up and next his claws are clicking toward the master bedroom, where he will spend the rest of the night by my side of the bed snoring and passing gas.


Posted on Nov 28, 2004, 6:40 PM

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I need to know the OHIO laws for keeping a pit bull...

by

I have the cutest pit bull in the whole world. My cousin gave him to me about 2 months ago. He is now 5 months old. I love him more than anything in the world. However, I keep hearing different laws, and I am not sure who is correct?? I also have a little Jack Russel Terrior whom I also adore. I need to know if that combination will be ok together. So far they seem to be getting along okay. But everyone keeps telling me that when my Pit Bull is about a year old he will kill my little dog... I am soooo confused. I LOVE and want both dogs. Please help me out....


Lauren

Lebraun
@
Zoey

Posted on Apr 24, 2004, 2:39 PM

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He wont hurt your little dog if you train both of them right

by Brittany

People that have never owned a pit or another form of the dog dont know anything they only go on what they hear which is all a mistake. Pits that I have known and I own one are the sweetest dogs if taken care of just as any other dog. If you give your dog some TLC and teach him right from wrong he will not hurt your other dog but instead probably protect him these breeds are very loyal to the ones they see everyday. The people that are saying that the pit will kill your other dog, ask them if they have ever come across an agressive pit and also ask them if they have ever even came across a well trained pit the answers are probably gonna be no.

Posted on Aug 28, 2005, 12:01 PM

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WOLFDOGS IN THE UK

by

Hi,

Does anyone on this forum know of any wolf dog breeders in the UK? This is a genuine enquiry.

And does anyone know what has happened to the Kugsha sites? They seem to have all crashed. Have they (the kennel) been closed down?

Thanks

Posted on Oct 24, 2003, 9:04 AM

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Wolfdog adopt in UK

by

I can introduce you to someone who places adoptions in any country.



Posted on Jul 24, 2006, 11:16 PM

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Wolfdogs in the UK

by GAULIRMORN

Hi Steve,

Your message has tweaked my interest, but wolfdogs are illegal in the UK, so how does the adoption bit work here?



Posted on Jul 25, 2006, 4:32 AM

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czechoslovakian wolfdogs

by

hi in response to your message the czech wolfdogs are here in uk and doing well the second litter was in october 2006, you can see some at www.ukwolfdogs.com

Posted on Mar 13, 2007, 12:31 AM

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What to do about a Puppy Mill?

by Concerned

Who to contact? And what to do? Action needs to be taken.....

Posted on Aug 18, 2003, 6:08 AM

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Breeders in Iowa

by Thomas

I have searched everywhere to find a responsible breeder in Iowa and have had no such luck. If anyone can help me it would be great. I have a wolf/malamute mix and would love for her to have a companion.

Posted on Apr 3, 2003, 5:04 PM

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Breed???

by

There are thousands of WDs right now in need of homes.
Puppies and any age you can think of. Why encourage breeding.
A Texas breeder has so many that they are killing each other in pens too small.

ADOPT

I will find the perfect animal for you....

Posted on Jul 24, 2006, 11:19 PM

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Wolfdogs to GOOD Home

by

Free wolfdogs to Good home!If interested please contact me.A.S.A.P

Posted on Mar 27, 2003, 6:02 PM

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Question

by

Dear Harley,


Hi im from ohio and i have been looking for a wolfdog. I would like to know what kind of wolfdog it is first and the age of it. Please contact me at junior06@yahoo.com to notify me on this information.Thanks!

Posted on May 15, 2003, 5:20 PM

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what % of wolf and why free

by

I just lost my wolf she was 75% Timber wolf she was spayed and given all shots she was well kept I am seeking another wolf
Thank you for your concern
Brett

Posted on Oct 3, 2003, 2:59 PM

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Help stolen dog

by

I am going to small claims court next month to hopefully win our dog back. The breeder (previously my best friend) stole our dog and also stole the paper work back (UKC registration). Does anyone know how these cases have turned out before? We have witnesses that will testify that we owned the dog and also paper work showing that we had the puppy to the vet. Does anyone know if whomever has the paper work showing ownership will win? Thanks for helping. Karen

Posted on Oct 15, 2002, 2:44 PM

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brownstown mi 48173 am-staff laws

by

i just moved here into a fixer upper house that no one wanted to buy, come to find out a neighbor suposedly turned me in for having and american bulldog and a puppy female staff. this was about a month ago adn i have heard nothing on this soo far. i cant find the laws anywhere can anyone help?? i have heard they can just come on your property n take your dogs with out warnign or warrant. can anyone help???
im very upset
nikki, browstown mi 48173

Posted on Jun 10, 2002, 2:16 PM

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Dog Ownership Laws

by

I am looking for information as to how long a private party has to have a dog (found dog that was posted as found) before it becomes their legal property.

Posted on Mar 29, 2002, 1:50 PM

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Current State Laws As They Pertain To Wolfdog Ownership

by

A copy of those laws may be found at:
http://www.wolfdogalliance.org/legislation/statelaws.html

Posted on Oct 30, 2001, 11:54 PM

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CURIOUS

by

WOULD LIKE SOME INFO ABOUT MY AREA AND HAVING WOLFDOGS SPENCER, OHIO

Posted on Mar 22, 2002, 8:33 PM

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wolfdogs in Ohio

by Stacey

Ray,
I can tell you right now, Ohio is still a very wolfdog friendly state. AS for the exact area you live in, your best bet is to check with your local county/city/township office, and check the ordinances.

Hope that helps

"The Ohio Division of Wildlife has no regulations concerning the sale or possession of wolves or Wolf Hybrids in Ohio. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has authority on dealing with wolves in Ohio. The wolf hybrid is classified as a dog and is covered by the Ohio Department of Agriculture (Chapter 955 Dogs)."

(taken from National Wolfdog Alliance)

But I would still check with your local office!

Stacey

Posted on Apr 17, 2002, 10:45 PM

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CURIOUS

by

WOULD LIKE SOME INFO ABOUT MY AREA AND HAVING WOLFDOGS SPENCER, OHIO

Posted on Mar 22, 2002, 8:35 PM

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New CA Legislation

by

From: http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,42430,00.htm

Dog Bytes Say More Than Bark by Julia Scheeres

2:00 a.m. March 15, 2001 PST


Proposed legislation in California would require microchips to be implanted in cats and dogs to reduce the number of former pets killed in the state's animal shelters each year.

Under Senate Bill 236, introduced by state Sen. Jack O'Connell (D-Santa Barbara), dogs and cats would be "chipped" and the owner's identification entered in a national registry.

The bill is slated for debate in the judiciary committee next month. text of bill at: http://info.sen.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=sb_236&sess=CUR&house=B&site=sen

The premise sounds good but is this a good bill?

Posted on Oct 30, 2001, 10:21 PM

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I need info about animal abuse laws.

by

I'm from Missouri, and I worked at an animal hospital for two years where I had to watch abused and mistreated animals be sent home with their owner because we had no legal means to stop them. I heard the other day that Louisianna has very strict laws against animal abuse and I'd like to know what they are. Any other states laws would be fine, too. I just need something so that I can start a campaign to get this changed in Missouri. I don't want to have to see any more animals that are thirty pounds underweight be sent home with their "owners". Thanks for any help I can get.

Posted on Oct 14, 2001, 1:24 PM

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State Animal Protection Laws

by

You might go to: http://www.hsus.org/programs/government/state.html
Alabama's law was passed in 2000 and is there under "State Laws Enacted in 2000" along with some others.

BTW, animal cruelty is now a felony in Alabama.

Posted on Oct 22, 2001, 1:40 PM

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Shambala

by

The Shambala bill, it is presently a dormant issue.


The bill died in committee in the last legislative session of the U.S. Congress (106) but is more than likely going to be resurrected at some point.

Chances are, they will have fixed much of the language that caused it to falter in the last session. This is why it is important we all keep watch for this bill to see if/when it re-surfaces and let all know if/when it does.

One place to watch for it is: http://thomas.loc.gov/home/thomas.html
Select 107th Congress and type in to the search by word/phrase "exotic animal" (without the parentheses). Then type in "wild animal" if that fails to bring up the shambala bill. If that fails, type in "shambala".

If you are interested in looking at the bill and it's history as it was introduced in the last (106th) session, you can select that session by selecting Bill Text (below) and then select 106 and type in "shambala" (again, without the parentheses).

If anyone spots it, please let us all know.


Posted on Jul 24, 2001, 2:19 AM

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Good riddance

by fang

it was the dumbest thing I have EVER heard of... can't believe it went as far as it did, Now.... where is the Wolfdog Forum these days?

Posted on Nov 18, 2001, 8:30 PM

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Hi Fang,

by

Long time, no hear.

Yes, it was a dumb bill but I wouldn't expect never to see it or something similar again. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see it again if we stop watching for it.

You asked about the Wolfdog Forum. Is this maybe what you are looking for?
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/67196

Posted on Nov 19, 2001, 8:27 PM

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Wolf and wolfdog rights activist

by

I do not understand peoples thinking on the subject of wolfdogs. They are very simply another breed of dog. All of our domestic breeds of dogs were originated from wolves,coyotes, and their subspecies. The natural traits, the basics are still there if you look and pay attention. My full blooded Long Haired King Sized German Shepard AKC registered who is 11-years old now has more wolfish tendencies than my 2-year old 95% wolfdog, both males. Have you not noticed that your domestic breed, say your chiwawa, or your collies, or your beagles, any breed you want to think of or even put a bunch of different breeds of dogs together in the same pen. They will decide amongst themselves who is in charge and who isn't. The same as a wolf pack. You have to use common sense with your Rotwieler when you get him, meaning if you live in a little bitty apartment in the middle of town with no where for him to run and exercise you usually have problems, so you pick a little dog which doesn't require alot of room to run, he gets all the exercise he needs in a smaller space. People are the problem and breeders who sell animals to individuals who do not have the ammple space for the animal they are purchasing. And as far as Wolves being unsocial animals and dangerous, how many German Shepards, Rotwielers,Razorbacks, or for that matter any large, medium or even small dogs are you going to approach that you do not know to be friendly ahead of time. Hopefully none, because you run a high risk of being bitten. You must use common sense and no 'LAW' can teach you that.

Posted on Jul 21, 2001, 10:51 PM

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You are a good advocate!

by Sam Hawkins

I really appreciate your letter. I have always maintained, the problem is not the wolf or the wolf-hybrid. The problem is the owner. A wolf or wolf-hybrid is no substitute for an owners lack of confidence or to enhance his/her ego. A wolf or hybrid properly raised is no more dangerous than a "domestic" dog. Personally, I am more afraid of a pitbull than of a wolf. If anybody is looking for an attack-dog or a watch-dog, the wolf or hybrid is certainly the wrong choice. I personally experienced how gentle and fairly predictable a properly raised wolf-hybrid is. My own wolf-hybrids were raised with love and praise only, never any kind of punishment, never a harsh word! They also were never forced to do anything. All their lives they were full members of my family with almost equal rights. Within the limits of our property, they pretty much were able to do whatever they wanted to. You cannot raise a wolf or hybrid like many peaple raise dogs. They need a lot more love and understanding of their specific behaviour patterns, their pack structure and their hirarchie understanding. My male hybrid was an "Alpha" and all his life he challenged me for leadership, but never in an aggressive way. He did little things, like getting to my "Lazy Boy" chair first and lay down in it. So, big deal! I sat on the floor for a while until he realized I am not challenging back and he got down on the floor.
My hybrids were around people (virtually hundreds because of my job) their whole lives and never ever made as much as a threat to anybody. Yes, there were people they didn't like! They just did the "wolf thing", they withdrew! Together with a female hybrid and a Siberian Husky female, they formed a wonderful pack, and the male took well care of his pack!
Anybody who wants to get involved in the live of a wolf or hybrid, needs to make a lifetime (!) commitment to this animal. You cannot abandon an animal like this, because they bond with you, and they bond for life! It is very hard and in some cases impossible to place a wolfdog with a new owner. You have to earn and maintain their trust and friendship. Do not ever violate that trust! You will loose it for life. A dog turns around after being mistreated and wiggles it's tail. A wolf or hybrid will never do that, you just lost a very good friend!


Posted on Jul 23, 2001, 12:53 PM

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Hail Hail

by

Hail Hail a person with good common sense. You are few and far between. People don't stop to think, a wolfdog is just another breed of dog. You wouldn't treat your palmeranian the same as your german shepard.

Posted on Aug 21, 2001, 9:42 PM

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wolfdog placement

by

Hi, While I strongly agree that any pet you take on should be a life time commitment. I disagree with your feelings about finding a new home for wolf dogs. I have rescued or help find new homes for a number of wolf dogs over the past 12 years. Many of the new home keep in contact with me. True it takes time for them to readjust, but they do, and they re-bond and seem to understand in the same way a dog that you get from a shelter seems to appreciate and understand that they have a second chance. I stay in touch and work with the wolf dogs and their new humans. I have seen many happy loving wolf dogs in second homes. Don't sell them short, they are very intelligent and adaptable. If they need a new home, they can love and bond again.

Posted on Feb 12, 2007, 10:33 PM

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This wolfdog of yours

by Amorak2

is the one supposedly descended from White Fang, and TwoSocks, right? 95% what, husky/malamute? Why are people's ego's so tied up with the percentage of wolf in their animals? Love the animal for what it is, and stop misinforming people about your HIGH(not) content wolfdog. That type of misinformation could make for a tragedy for someone who thinks a real 95% wolfdog acts like yours.



Posted on Aug 20, 2001, 10:36 PM

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You were not there!

by

I was a mere child when this line started. I did not get Wolf from a breeder. So yes I know how Wolf came about. Two Socks is what my Grandmother named the wolf. I never said it was the same Two socks that people are saying was in a movie only White Fang (the original). I never knew there was a Two Socks that played in any movie or I would have clarified sooner. And you know what I am really tired of all the garbage I have been getting from people. Teach me to share a beautiful creature again, or any of my family history. LIVE AND STILL LEARNING. People are always such know- it-alls when they don't KNOW s____t!

Posted on Aug 21, 2001, 9:33 PM

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95% or not 95%

by

I can tell you what it's like to have a 95% wolf 5% malamute. I can also tell you what's it's like to have a 70% wolf 30% husky. I have both. They have no claims to fame but we think they're pretty special. Feel free to ask any questions you like. To say a wolf or a wolfdog is the same as a dog is foolish. But to infer a wolf or wolfdog can't be kept as a pet is also foolish. It is a lot more work but the rewards are definitely worth it.












Posted on Jan 23, 2003, 10:55 PM

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Here is Korea. I'm wolfdog fancier.

by

Hi!

Hello.
My name is Jong-Wook Noh. I live seoul Korea

I raise some dogs. 1 Jindo dog, 1 husky hy-brid, 2 Pit bull, 1 Cocker spaniel, 1 Aussie terrier. ^^
They are my best companion.

I'm wolflike dog fancier. I like wolf dog very much.
My friend "Mr. kwak" have a fare of 99% wolfdog.
They are realy good dog!

I want good pup. but, I will buy 3~4 month later. ^^;
I want good character, mask. I want over 90% timber wolf, under 10% sheperd or malamute puppy.
I would like to good for companion.
I like Yellow(!) eyes, and sable, glay, aguty, black and other wolf color.

If you have a that puppy,can you get is touch with me?

p.s: (you=this text's all reader. ^^)

Have a nice day!

Best regards.

Jong-wook Noh
Seoul Korea

Posted on May 10, 2001, 5:53 AM

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This board is for legislative issues.

by Christine

We wouldn't know where to direct you to search for a pup. Sorry.

Posted on Jun 2, 2001, 12:17 AM

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Jindo dogs

by

I was surprised to see someone interested in a wolfdog from South Korea. I think it might be hard to ship a wolfdog to S. korea. I'm sure you know about the Korean Jindo dog.... Their are a pack animal also but much smaller than most wolfdogs. You may find that you will be happier with one of your own historic breeds of dog.

Posted on Apr 14, 2004, 5:25 PM

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I need information on APBT specific laws in New Jersey

by

I need to find reliable sites on laws against the PitBull Terrier in New Jersey. If you have any suggestions please e-mail them to me.

Thanks

Posted on Mar 14, 2001, 7:54 PM

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link to nj statutes

by steve

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/html/statutes.htm

Posted on May 21, 2001, 1:49 AM

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I need some answers on the legality of American Pitbull Terriers in Ohio

by

I need to get the legislation for Richland County for Pits and find out where in the hell I can get a $100,000.00 bond for a pit? Every insurance company I have called says "Absolutely Not", so where do I get this coverage? It is hard to try to be legal and noone out there is willing to give the appropriate insurance.

Posted on Mar 9, 2001, 2:22 PM

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Re: I need some answers on the legality of American Pitbull Terriers in Ohio

by Anonymous

i live in ohio and if you have been with your insurence company for awhile or you have home owners insurense they should cover you dog

Posted on Oct 9, 2002, 8:29 PM

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HelP! Louisianna STATE WIDE BSL

by

As some of you know, down in my neck of the woods -- The State Legislature of Louisiana is attempting to BAN ALL "pit bull dogs" throughout the state.

Specific Breeds they are attempting to ban are the American Staffordshire Terrier, American Bulldog, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and Bull Terrier.

The proposed legislation also seeks to ban any dog deemed "one quarter" of the above breeds.

I am trying to organize a fight against this legislation -- But unlike local muncipal ordinances this is STATEWIDE, thus the fight requires opposition from THOUSANDS of people.

I spent a few hours tonight starting to design a web page offering information and points of contact -- Please be patient it is in its infancy. However, I need your help. Any advice, further points of contact, articles, email lists, basically ANYTHING and any advice you can give me would be appreciated. I am new to a movement of this size and I could use some sound advice.

To view the web page please visit:

http://www.geocities.com/canineadvocate/Save-Louisiana-Dogs.html?

phone:
979103530410

You may also contact me directly at bsparker@earthlink.net

Again, Thank You.

Rgds,
Parker

Posted on Jan 12, 2001, 12:00 AM

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what in the world is ^ with this?

by

We can't let the Shambala bill become a law because their basicly saying that we should get rid of every animal that lives under a human roof.If they do that then someone is going to go out there and kill all the animals while saying they didn't mean to and get off easy.It makes no sense what so ever so why go through with it?And all this cross breeding,there is nothing wrong with it.Their all the same basic kind of animal you know.Will our government ever think of anything thats worth the time they spend on it?If they do please inform me on it.

Posted on Nov 17, 2000, 2:58 PM

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Fw: GERMANY OUTLAWS BREEDING CERTAIN CATS!!!!

by

Date: Thursday, October 26, 2000 3:18 PM
Subject: [H4AB] Fwd: Fw: GERMANY OUTLAWS BREEDING CERTAIN CATS!!!!


Does anyone know if this is true? Has anyone heard more about this?

Carrin
Tuesday evening, October 25,
the German Ministry of Family Health and Environment has outlawed the breeding of the following breeds and colors of cats:

1. ALL Turkish Van cats. (where the word "ALL" appears, there are no conditions or exceptions granted)
2. Any Maine Coon cat with more than five toes (polydactyl).
3. Any white cat of ANY breed, regardless of eye color.
4. All bicolor cats of ANY breed having more than 2/3 white pattern, must have a baer test for hearing and a genetic test to prove the white does not come from the epistatic white gene.
5. Extreme Persians or Exotic Shorthairs, with brachycephalic features.
6. Rex cats when the whiskers are curled.
7. ALL Scottish Fold cats.
8. ALL Manx and longhaired Manx.
9. ALL cats of any breed with a lethal factor gene.

My friend also tells me she thinks Siamese and Birmans (any cat with blue eyes) must have a baer test for hearing, as well as a test to prove the eyes are not crossed, but she is not sure of this.

Cats in these categories may not be bred, imported, or exported.

There may be other things on this list, but my friend does not have the official list yet. I will contact you if this becomes available.

A petition will be circulated among German breeders, asking for repeal of this decision, but hopes are not high that it will change. German legislative process is more permanent than that in the USA.

The breeder who told me these things is not yet sure what the penalty will be for violation of this, but thinks it may involve up to 50,000 D.M. and mandatory search and seizure of all cats on premises, with mandatory spay and neuter of all cats on premises.

She questions what will be done with those persons who violate these laws with un-registered household pet cats.

The above laws will severely restrict import of Turkish Angora cats from the Turkish zoo, and will cut the Turkish Angora gene pool to a dangerously low level.

It is almost certain, my friend says, that the animal rights activits in Europe will accomplish passage of this same law all across Europe, in the near future.

Sadly,
Kit Goodwin
Great Lakes Legislative Net Liaison
Cincinnati Cat Club Legislative Net Liaison

Posted on Oct 26, 2000, 11:55 PM

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MICHIGAN'S NEW LAW AIMS TO EXTERMINATE WOLF DOGS

by S. Smith

IT DEFINES THE TARGET BREED AS FOLLOWS:

"Wolf-dog cross" means a canid resulting from the breeding of any of the following:
(1) A wolf with a dog (2) A wolf dog cross with a dog

NOTE:

1. Dogs are in the same biological class as wolves. Wolves are the species. Dogs are a subspecies.
2. Every dog is a direct descendant of wolves, regardless of it's appearance.
3. THUS, every dog is, by legislative fiat, a wolf dog cross, no matter how remote its wolf ancestry.

Sen Leon Stille and Rep Gerry Law pushed this tyrannical law through the legislature,
and Governor Engler signed it, all with full knowledge that it's target animals cannot be identified.
Such is the power of the Michigan Humane Society.

One Senator who opposes "Breed Specific" laws has warned that the real danger of the new law is that
with just slight change of definitions, ANY DOG BREED CAN BE ELIMINATED.

Animal rights activists will surely eliminate every breed in time, if this law is allowed to stand. Think about it.

Please contribute to the legal expense (estimated at $30,000 to $50,000 ) of challenging this unconstitutional law.

Please make checks to the law firm of Mansfield, Tanick & Cohen. Identify it's purpose for Wolf dog litigation.

Please send checks to Professor Emeritus Al Stinson DVM, 1915 Epley Rd, Williamston, MI 48895.

If the $30,000 needed to start is not raised, your check will be returned: money in excess of cost will be returned.





Posted on Oct 1, 2000, 9:02 AM

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Oh, Oh, what happened to the Shambala Forum?

by

Seems to have disappeared.

Yes, they are indeed cowards.


Stormy

Posted on Sep 27, 2000, 1:17 AM

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Proposed Arkansas Legisaltion

by Christine

Here are the pertinent points of the current Arkansas wildlife possession ban bill. It is followed by a list of the commissioners. If I have missed anything that is referred to in the text, please let me know.

Post this anywhere and everywhere with my thanks!

David

4. WILDLIFE PETS

A. COMMISSION CONCERNS The Commission currently has one "pet regulation" -- Code 18.17 -- which allows individuals to capture and keep as pets up to six individuals of most native wildlife species. Because the manner of keeping and the use of these pets are not specifically addressed by this regulation, it provides loopholes around proposed restrictions on commercial hunting of captive wildlife.
Possession of up to six individuals of each species makes it readily possible for the allowed number to be exceeded through reproduction, with no method in place for addressing the disposition of the progeny.
Recent reports by Commission Wildlife Officers confirm that some individuals have been abusing the current restrictions regarding possession of native wildlife as pets and have been violating the prohibition against selling these animals and transporting them from the state.

The principal concerns of the Commission related to wildlife pets are:

1. Wildlife pets pose a potential danger of injury or disease to their owners and others. Certain species, such as mountain lions and tigers, are inherently dangerous due to their large size and disposition and have caused injury to owners in Arkansas and other states. Prices for these animals have dropped, and it is becoming increasingly popular to keep them as personal pets, despite strong recommendations against this practice by the American Veterinary Medical Association and the U.S. Department of Agriculture. At least 27 Arkansas towns and several counties have banned or strictly regulated wildlife pets in recent years, especially dangerous species, due to concern over these issues.

2. Although it has the authority, the Commission has not previously regulated the keeping of non-native wildlife as pets. The escape and establishment in the wild of non-native animals poses a real threat to native wildlife, livestock and native species already naturalized in Arkansas include the black rat, house mouse, and European starling.
Since about 23% of the vertebrate non-native species established in the wild in the U.S. were originally kept as pets, it is vitally important that this issue be addressed.

3. Code 18.17 is an imprecise regulation that has been difficult to enforce.
As currently written, it invites misinterpretation. (For example, 18.17 allows possession of up to six of specified wildlife species, but does not state whether it is "per person" or "per household." Some individuals assert that if there are five individuals living in a residence, then their "family"
should be able to cumulatively possess up to 30 (5 x 6) pet deer taken from the wild at any given time).

The Commission's recommendations for addressing these concerns are as follows:

B. RECOMMENDATIONS
1. Reduce the number of allowable native wildlife pets to one (1) each per household of rabbit, squirrel, and raccoon and one (1)
each per household of certain nongame species.

2. Prohibit the keeping of new dangerous wildlife species as pets. Current owners may be allowed to keep existin pets after registration with the Commission and compliance with care and caging requirements.

3. Allow non-dangerous non-native wildlife to be kept as pets, but require registration with the Commission of species not specifically exempted.

The Commission's rationale for addressing these recommendations is as follows:

C. RATIONALE FOR RECOMMENDATIONS
1. Reduce the number of allowable native wildlife pets to one (1) each per household of rabbit, squirrel, and raccoon and one (1)
each per household of certain nongame species.
Prohibition of the use of most game species as pets will eliminate a current loophole that could be abused to avoid regulations regarding the hunting of captive wildlife. The reduction of allowable native wildlife pets from six to one will prevent difficulties relating to the disposition of progeny of captive pets and reduce the potential for illegal commercialization of animals captured under this regulation.

2. Prohibit the keeping of new dangerous wildlife species as pets. Current owners may be allowed to keep existing pets after registration with the Commission and compliance with care and caging requirements.
Certain species of wildlife are inherently dangerous and unpredictable as personal pets, and gradual elimination of this practice is desired in the interest of public safety. These species are identified in a new "Dangerous Wildlife" definition (see Definition of Terms page 6)

3. Allow non-dangerous non-native wildlife to be kept as pets, but require registration with the Commission of species not specifically exempted.
Non-native wildlife pose a health and safety risk to native wildlife and the environment of Arkansas. Registration of non-exempted species will allow the Commission to begin to assess the scope of this issue in Arkansas and allow us to quickly respond to newly discovered dangers relating to registered species. The Commission believes that six (6)
months is a reasonable amount of time for this action to be accomplished.

D. PROPOSED REGULATIONS
15.30 WILDLIFE PET RESTRICTIONS. It shall be unlawful to take, or attempt to take from the wildlife stock of the State.
or possess alive for personal use any wildlife species, other than as specified herein or allowed under other Commission codes, and the sale, purchase, or barter of such wildlife or the progeny thereof, is prohibited:
(1) Native game species: One (1) each of rabbits, squirrels and raccoons may be taken by hand only and possessed per household.
(2) Native nongame species: One (1) each of nondangerous species may be taken by hand only and possessed per household, excluding birds, bats, alligator snapping turtles, ornate box turtles, hellbenders, troglodytic (cave-dwelling)
species and those animals defined as endangered species.
(3) Non-native species (No registration required):
(a) Reptiles, amphibians (nonvenomous, unprotected) (b)Gerbils, hedgehogs (c) Honey possums. sugar gliders, brushtailed possums (d)
Shell parakeets (e) Canaries (f) Ferrets (domestic; European) (g) Lovebirds (h) Guinea pigs (i) Cockadels (j) Hamsters (k)Parrots
(I) Finches (m) Myna birds (n) Toucans (o) Doves; ringed, ruddy, and diamond (p) Button quail (q) Prairie dogs (r)Chinchillas (s) European rabbits (t) Rats and mice (u) Fish.
(4) Non-native species (Registration required): All other non-native wiIdlife not listed in Code 15.30 (3) that are registered with the Commission and were legally obtained and accompanied by verification from a USDA-licensed pet shop.

EXCEPTIONS (1) Native wildlife and those non-native wildlife species legally acquired and possessed before September 21, 2000 that are registered with the Commission by March 1, 2001 may be retained by their owners.
(2) Dangerous wildlife species possessed before September 21, 2000 that are registered with the Commission by March 1, 2001, sterilized, and kept in compliance with Commission Code 15.02.
Effective March 1, 2001, all dangerous wildlife species that are not registered with the Commission, sterilized, and kept in compliance with Commission Code 15.02 must be removed from the confines of the state, euthanized, or transferred only to out-of-state entities, organizations that are accredited members of the American Zoo and Aquarium Association (AZAA), municipal zoos or other facilities approved by the Commission.
(3) Non-dangerous, non-native wildlife may be bought, sold, or bartered in accordance with USDA regulations and Commission Breeder/Dealer permit requirements.

PENALTY: $ 100.00 to $1,000.00.


The following are new or arnended definitions to be inserted in Code Section
01.00-C:

01.00-C DEFINITION OF TERMS. For the purposes of the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission Code of Regulations, the following terms shall be construed, respectively, to mean and include:
ANIMAL - An organism of the animal kingdom. as distinguished from the plant kingdom, including any part, product, egg, or offspring thereof.
BUY - To purchase, barter, exchange, or trade and includes any offer to purchase. barter, exchange, or trade.
CAPTIVITY or HOLD CAPTIVE - The holding of living wildlife in a controlled environment that is manipulated by man for the pt.rrpoc of exercising ownership, possession or control of the wildlife, and that has boundaries deigned to prevent selected species from entering or leaving the controlled environment. General characteristics of captivity may include but are not limited to high-fence enclosure, artificially supplied food, artificial housing, health care, and/or protection from predators.
DANGEROUS WILDLIFE - Species that are inherently dangerous to humans. Primates: Gorillas, orangutans, chimpanzees.
gibbons, siamangs. mandrills, drills. baboons, Gelada baboons. Carnivores: wolves, bears, cougars, lions, tigers, leopards, jaguars, cheetahs, hyenas. Order Prosboscidia: elephants. Order Perissodactyla: Rhinoceroses. Order Artiodactyla: Hippopotamus, African buffalo. Order Crocodylia: crocodiles and alligators. Order Setpentes: All poisonous species.
Amphibians: all poisonous species.
ENCLOSE - To surround species of wildlife on all sides using natural or man-made barriers, including but not limited to fencing, walls, levees, landscaping, moats, structures, or other devices, so that the wildlife are not free to leave a particular environment.
ENCLOSURE - Any area surrounded by a natural or man-made barrier. including but not limited to fencing six feet or higher. walls, levee, landscaping, moatN. structures, or other devices that prevent wildlife from leaving a parlicular environment.
IMPORT - To land on. bring into, or introduce into any place within the jurisdiction of the State of Arkansas.
POSSESS or POSSESSION - To have under control: the manual or ideal Custody of wildlife or anything that may be the subject of property for one's use and enjoyment, either as owner or as the proprietor of a qualified right in it, and either held personally or by another who exercises it in one's place and name. Possession includes the act or state of possessing and that condition of facts under which one can exercise his power over a corporeal thing at his pleasure to the exclusion of all other persons.
Possession includes constructive possession, which means not actual but assumed to exist, where one claims to hold by virtue of some title, without having actual custody.

ARKANSAS GAME & FISH COMMISSIONERS LIST

Bill Bridgforth, Chairman
P. O. Box 8509
Pine Bluff, AR 71611

Phone: 870-535-9000
Fax: 870-535-8544
Home: 870-535-5140
Mobile: 870-550-1230
Mobile: 870-550-1231
e-mail: bbridgforth@agfc.state.ar.us


Marion McCollum, Vice-Chairman
1002 So. Lowe
Stuttgart, AR 72160

Phone: 870-673-3269
Fax: 870-673-3687
Home: 870-673-1908
Mobile: 870-830-1203
e-mail: macksprairiewings@mackspw.com


Jim Hinkle
P.O. Box 1228
Mountain View, AR 72560

Phone: 870-269-3815
Fax: 870-269-2899
Home: 870-269-3408
Mobile: 870-214-2000
e-mail: jimhinkle0mvtel.net


Dr. Lester Sitzes
1819 So. Main St.
Hope, AR 71801

Phone: 870-777-4466
Fax: 870-777-0718
Home: 870-777-8478
Mobile:870-703-3418
e-mail:Isitzes@ipa.net


Forrest Wood
Ranger Boats
P. 0. Box 99
Flippin, AR 72634

Phone: 870-453-8966
Fax: 870-453-7200
Home: 870-453-8282
Mobile: 870-404-1000
e-mail: fwood@centuryinter.net


Mike Freeze
Keo Fish Farm
P.O. Box 166
Keo, AR 72083
Phone: 501-842-2872
Fax: 501-842-2156
Mobile: 501-590-5127
Home: 501-842-2715
e-mail: keoff@aol.com


Sheffield Nelson
3400 TCBY Tower
425 W. Capitol
Little Rock, AR 72201

Phone: 501-375-1122
Fax: 501-375-1027
Home: 501-664-3873
e-mail: esn@jlj.com


Dr. Donald Roufa
Dept. of Biological Sciences
University of Arkansas
Fayetteville, AR 72701

Phone: 501-575-2173
Fax: 501-575-4010
Secty: 501-575-2647
Home: 501-571-3667
e-mail:droufa@comP.uark.edu
______________________________



Posted on Sep 11, 2000, 9:01 AM

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Url for Nickerson Report

by Anonymous

The following url is for the web page titled Nickerson Reports with links to five pages.

http://homepages.go.com/~wdhello/index.htm

Posted on Sep 6, 2000, 10:08 AM

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Full 23 page Nickerson Police report ......

by Anonymous

is now posted online at the following url:

http://homepages.go.com/~wdhello/index.htm

Posted on Sep 11, 2000, 10:24 AM

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I love my baby.

by

I don't understand the purpose of the Shambala Bill. Why would the government want to take my baby away from me? She is well cared for and a very happy girl. She is 7 mos. and 84 pounds and I love every ounce. If someone could get back to me about this bill I would appreciate it quite a bit. Thank you, Angel

Posted on Sep 5, 2000, 4:56 PM

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Here you go Angel

by

Hello Angel~

If you go to the following URL it will tell you WHY Shambala is not a reasonable document as it is currently written.

It also tells you step by step what to do, who to contact and more...

Good Luck and do pass the information to dog and cat owners. They as well as we who own wolfdogs,are also at risk.

http://www.lioc.org/Shambala/Index.html

Howls
TW

Posted on Sep 6, 2000, 12:10 AM

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Discussion of Shambala legislation. Dear Tippi or Sunny.....

by

As you have choosen the easy way out and disabled your Guestbook and Forum, after you both invited comments and questions from wolfdog folks on Shambala, there seems to be no place to discuss these issues with you. That may fit into your plans but not into mine or others that Shambala will affect.

I pose this to you. If you really wish a discussion on the contents of Shambala and how the provisions within Shambala will affect those that currently keep species and subspecies animals named within Shambala responsibly, I throw down the gauntlet to you. Name the forum or URL or place for such a discussion.

I realize that you have now seen that there is considerable support and a combined undertaking of many diverse exotic groups and owners that oppose Shambala legislation. I am certain that yuou have been contacted by Congressional aides and Congressman stating that there is a rising tide of mail making its way to those sitting on the two House Subcommittees in opposition to Shambala.

I also realize, as you do, that the comments posted to the Shambala URL were NOT libelous or slanderous or malicious. They were questions and statements that you could NOT answer in good faith and maintain the present stance of support for Shambala AND I can understand your thoughts and concerns on the questions that John Q. Public will start asking you about the contents of Shambala. Your fund raising efforts might also be adversly affected and is more than likely the major reason for stopping the Guestbook and Forum sections. That is understandable - from your point of view.

What is not understandable is your refusal to discuss the questions that have been asked of Shambala. "WE" were asked to enter into a discussion of the content of Shambala by the both of you.

You name the time, place and date via the internet to discuss these issues. You already know the questions and I am sure will allow yourselves ample time to formulate responses to those questions that have been asked.

You can not hide behind the guise of wolfdog owners being slanderous, malicous or libelous forever. It will not wash. "WE" have copies of the statements that wre placed on the Shambala site as well. They were not as you suggest them to be. Nice twist to the mix but it doesn't solve your problems and "WE" are not going anywhere - other than to the hearings. "WE" seek and desire a discussion on the issues and await your response.

Thank you

Greg Largent.



Posted on Sep 1, 2000, 8:26 AM

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NOVEMBER STATE BALLOT ISSUES !

by

ALASKA:
Measure 1- Would bar all citizen ballot initiatives relating to the wildlife issues.

Measure 6 - Would retain the prohibition of same day airborne hunting of wolves.

ARIZONA:
Proposition 102 - Would require a two-thirds majority to approve any ballot initiative relating to the wildlife issues.

FLORIDA:
Measure to limit pig confinement on factory farms - Would ban the use of "gestation crates".

MASSACHUSETTS:
Question 3 - Would prohibit dog racing at which wagering on dog racing occur.


MONTANA:
Initiative 143 - Would impose a moratorium on new game farm licenses and ban "canned hunts."

NORTH DAKOTA:
Question 1 - Would create a new section for the Constitution relating to the right to hunt, trap, and fish.

OKLAHOMA:
(Pending Certification) - Would ban cockfighting and cause it to be illegal to keep birds for fighting purposes.


OREGON:
Measure 97 - Would ban the use of steel jawed leg hold traps and body gripping traps for recreation and fur commerce, and the use of Compound
1080 (sodium fluoroacetate) and sodium cyanide.


VIRGINIA:
Question 2 - Would amend the Constitution to establish "a right to hunt, fish, and harvest game."


WASHINGTON:
Initiative 713 - Would ban the use of steel jawed leg hold traps and body gripping traps for recreation and fur commerce, and the use of Compound
1080 (sodium fluoroacetate) and sodium cyanide.


Posted on Sep 1, 2000, 12:50 AM

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Proposed Nev. Legislation

by


To anyone with an interest in exotic animals ....
We came back from a meeting of the 'Nevada Regional Planning Coalition' where Joe Botello of Clark County Animal Control presented a very very brief description of a new ordinance he was seeking permission to pursue. This ordinance involved the 'Ownership of Restricted Species' (which is everything other than a farm animal or a domestic dog or cat). This ordinance will affect everyone that has an exotic animal.
He gave very few details to the Planning Coalition and they did give him permission to work on it. The next meeting to work on this ordinance will be on Sept. 11th, Monday, 6.30pm at the Govt. Center, Las Vegas.
Later on after the meeting we obtained a draft of the proposed law and it was drastic in all areas .. in costs and in regulations. The new regulations involve Space requirements that are very drastic compared to our present USDA regulations, also Breeding requirements that really amount to breeding bans .. can't breed without the permission of Animal Control. In fact there are so many 'Cant's .. without permission of Animal Control it amounts to Big Brother in a nutshell.
I am informed that a revised copy of the bill will go up on the Internet tomorrow on the Clark County Animal Control Site.
Anyone wishing to help please contact us. We will be putting up an e-group list for sharing thoughts and ideas and will post this info.
Need all the help we can get.


Posted on Sep 1, 2000, 12:44 AM

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We have set up a new mail list at :

by Bobby

http://www.egroups.com/group/NevadaExoticAnimals to help each other preserve our rights as exotic animal owners in Nevada so please join the list and keep up to date. Legislation will slide right by us just like it did in AZ in January if we do not stand together to fight it.
This list is to help everyone keep up to date with what is going on in legislation, etc. Get involved before it is too late! If you were at the meeting today you heard what we are up against. (if you missed the meeting, read the previous post from Bobby) This is not anything that you can just sit there and hope it will go away... Join in and help protect our rights and our animals - be at the next meeting on 9/11 at 6:30 PM. Also, Amy Riches is setting up a meeting this Sunday so we can go over the draft and decide what we need to speak out on. Please attend this meeting, we need all the Clark Co. people we can get together! I will know more about the Sunday meeting tomorrow and will post it on the list.

Posted on Sep 1, 2000, 2:00 AM

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Playing fair

by

As I am sure all have noticed. Tippi's group is not playing fair, has not played fair ,and is not going to play fair. I think that this should be considered when dealing with this issue. These folks and everyone like them only will show their true colors when put to the test. Them withdrawing the forum says alot. I think there is no telling what kind of shit has realliny been going on behind everyones back. I would like to know how she really got this piece of shit bill so far along. You can bet it was'nt on the up and up. Maybe we should start our own Bill and legeslate us some good laws of our own ! Well I guess that would depend on what Tippi done to get her's there before we start to write! Aggravated Jerry.

Posted on Aug 31, 2000, 10:34 PM

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New Bill........

by

Here are some thoughts..... I am very disturbed about the current situation with some of the existing sanctuaries such as two of the ASA members (Wildlife Waystation and the Asvestas Wildlife Animal Orphanage in TX)that have already had massive problems with the authorities citing improper animal care, death of animals during transport, pollution by human and animal waste, and improper animal housing. There is every indication that their sanctuary status should NOT exempt them from the regulations that they are trying to impose on others. I also have photos of Shambala and believe me, it leaves much to be desired too. Carol Asvestas & Tippi were co-authors of this SHAMbala Bill.

We need to propose a full scale investigation by the government into the REAL workings of this particular sanctuary group as it looks like they are just trying to feather their own $$$ NEST at our expense and care very little for the actual animals involved. I am including reports of their questionable activities along with my opposition to the Bill to every congressman that is involved. Many of these articles were already posted on this board some time ago, if you cannot find them let me know & I will send them to you.

Posted on Aug 31, 2000, 11:31 PM

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Articles

by

Suzanne,

Please send them to me.



Posted on Sep 1, 2000, 9:16 AM

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new bill

by

please send it to me.thanks sammie

Posted on Oct 30, 2000, 9:05 PM

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The Life-Style Police have Struck Again

by

Frankly, I am shocked. I take this purging to mean that anyone who does not have a carbon-copy opinion of Shambala's inherent neccessity will be censored. I have tried mightily to remain objective, and not allow my Heart or mouth to over-run my Head & logic. I tell you, the gloves come off. This is outrageous.
Any group which sponsors a Bill aimed at undermining the underlying tenets of the Constitution of the United States of America, namely, the Right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness must ,out of that Democratic
Constitution, be able to defend the logic of their proposed actions. The Roar Foundation, and the Shambala Organization has not only demonstrated a willingness to censor logical, carefully worded and non-inflamatory requests for clarification, but are basically telling us all that they know how you need to live your life, and they will insure you live your life as they will have it.
I say SHAME ON YOU, Sunny!! SHAME on you, Tippi!! How dare you slap the American People's Face in this manner?

Posted on Aug 31, 2000, 4:19 PM

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SHAMbala also deleted their forum. These are the posts from there today.

by Christine

Again, I don't see anything particularly nasty except their (Sham's) attitudes.

"Responsible ownership"

Posted By Pam Thompson on August 31, 2000 at 14:28:03:

How can anyone possibly consider this bill to be anything other than self serving to Tippi and her coherts?
This is set up to do away with responsible ownership.

AND WILL COST THOUSANDS OF ANIMALS THEIR LIVES.

This bill has nothing to do with Animal Welfare. This bill is unconsitutional to say the very least and will wind up costing thousands to enforce. It is nothing more than a smokescreen to protect the rights of people like Tippi, the San Antonio group and others like them. Those that have big cats attack their children because they let them SLEEP with their children are idiots. Other sanctuaries have proven themselves not to be qualified to take care of animals, and have been in trouble with USDA. Instead of putting the blame where it belongs, this SHAM takes away the rights of the thousands who have responsibly cared for their animals and never been fined by USDA, or brought up on charges or suffered incidents.

Continue to remove my posts and I will continue to dig deeper.


"Shambala Bill"

Posted ByLorraine on August 31, 2000 at 14:08:16:

I have been trying to educate myself and look at all aspects of this bill and I just can't make sense out of it.
From what I gather the only ones that will be able to care for these animals mentioned, including wolfdogs, are those sancuaries that are chosen to be part of the Sanctuary Association or those that care come up with the funds to meet the requirements. Basically, those that are wealthy. If this is the case, there will not be enough places to house all the thousands of animals that are out there. The end result will be the needless death of many beloved companions. There isn't any way for the average American person to meet the requirements placed in the bill so that they can continue to keep there beloved friend(s).
I think it is great that there are places that can take in unwanted animals or animals that come from circumstances that were not desirable ones. I am the first to help out if I can, and I have at times. The problem with your way of thinking is that you think that all exotic and not so exotic animals are grouped in the same category. When you think of the amount of people that have provided good, loving, healthy homes for their beloved friends (and I know a lot of them across the United States) verses those that don't, the good definately out ways the bad. So instead of taking these animals from the only home, people and love they have ever known, you have to think of ways to end the bad situations and practices.
Not end the lives of many animals that are with responsible people. People who have dedicated their lives to the well being of their companions. These are animals that will pay the price for being what they are, "exotic" or "wolfdogs".
There are many wolfdogs that have done great things and yet because you are ignorate (lack of knowledge)
about wolfdogs and to the abilities of these animals, not to mention their capabilities to love, you think they should all be killed. Have any of you truly had any experience with a well socialized animal that has lived with a family. I'm talking a family that has done all the right things? They are remarkable.
I know that you have heard the story that Patti Nickerson has made claims of a wolfdog killing her little girl.
Please find out all the facts about that situation before you decide that all wolfdogs should be killed. She claimed that wolfdogs weren't around or much wasn't known about them at the time and that is why she made the wolfdog claim years later. In my opinion, that is hogwash. Wolfdogs have been around longer then I have been around. I remember hearing about them when I was a very small child, and I am 36 now. So please before you use a name and situation to develop an opinion, or to back your cause - do you homework first and check out the reputation of the person as well as the facts. I have done my homework and I have found many holes in her story.
I am one that gets very angry when I hear of animals living in undesirable conditions, being abused in every sense of the word, or about people running puppy mills or have breeding practices that all unethical. I try to do my part and try to help put an end to it. You are not alone in fighting this mentality.
There are many of us who go out on a limb for these animals. Lets focus on coming up with a way to put an end to the unethical people not destroy the lives of thousands of animals, not to mention the lives of good families that have these animals. I love my animals and provide for them very well. They have very secure living quarters, lots of love and care, and they are more than companions to me and my family, they are family members. When I get an animal, I make a lifetime committment to my animals. I can't imagine my life without them, they are my life and I do use all my abilities to make them acceptable companions (and they are)so they can help me educate people as to the care and well being of them. (No, I do not promote everyone running out and getting a wolfdog either.) However, from the way you are thinking, as a result of the bad owners in the country you want to take my companions from me and kill them. Something is wrong with this picture.
What is this? A few bad apples spoils the bussel! There are alot of good responsible owners out there that go above and beyond to care for their companions. I think we deserve the right to keep our animals.
If I have not interperated this correctly please correct me and answer the questions people have asked about the bill so we can have a clearer understanding of what the bill is about.
Thanks, Lorraine


"What's the deal?!"


Posted ByDawn on August 31, 2000 at 11:35:05:

Are you all going to answer any real and concrete questions?

Why did Tippi tell us that she wants all wolfdogs destroyed?

How is that destruction going to be implemented when you can't tell the difference between them and purebred dogs? You just going to kill ALL dogs by benefit?

Do you not care that private owners take better care of these animals then some
sanctuaries i've heard of and seen? Why try to pass legislation that makes it impossible for anyone but the rich to afford these animals? Why are sanctuaries exempt when many (most?) accidents occur there? And shouldn't Tippi be included in this as she had no experience when she got started up either and attacks resulted?

Do you care that thousands of well cared for and healthy animals are going to be destroyed if this bill gets passed? Are they better off dead if you can't make a profit off of them? Is that what this is about? Or is it about trying to grasp at some minimal amount of fame?

Tell you what. You've inspired me to become a Zoologist and make a career out of thwarting such legislation and idiotic attitudes towards qualified and experienced private owners that do more to save these "wild"
animals then you do with this "Sham" of a bill.

Why can't you answer our questions? you just delete all the posts you dislike. I'll tell you why i think you won't answer... because the ONLY answer you have is lies and you know we will all see through lame excuses.

Leave me and my dogs alone. You don't know the first thing about them and cannot be experienced enough to pass legislation on them.

Do me a favor and come and meet these animals you want destroyed for merit of being part wolf.

Disgusted, Dawn



"When the Truth Hurts, Remove it?"

Posted By Stormy on August 31, 2000 at 00:56:18:

That shows how much a "Sham" this really is.

You would try to stop owners rights, and when you are "surprised" at their reactions, you remove what you "don't" want to see.

Typical of people who are not telling the truth. Which means there is usually a hidden agenda.

Your group is pathetic.

Stormy


"Routine Clearing"

Posted BySunny J. Harris on August 31, 2000 at 00:04:36:


We will no longer tolerate libelous, slanderous and malicious messages on this forum.
All such messages will be regularly removed.


"Routine avoidance aka Routine Clearing"

Posted ByDawn on August 31, 2000 at 11:39:26:

In Reply to: Routine Clearing posted bySunny J. Harris on August 31, 2000 at 00:04:36:

That's it! Label honest questions that you cannot answer with HONESTY as "libel".

Hmmm... well, what i'm saying is going to hurt the integrity of shambala and the bill but not because it isn't true. You do all the defamation on your own!

And refusing to answer questions is just another example.

I hope the people you duped into thinking you care about animals realize how many of these "wonderful"
creatures you are working to have killed and taken from healthy, safe and experienced homes. This is a "I'm better then you are" legislation ploy and nothing more.

Well being famous doesn't make you a better person, a better care taker, or an expert on animals.

Get off it.

Dawn



"Re: Routine Clearing "

Posted ByBob on August 31, 2000 at 11:08:29:

In Reply to: Routine Clearing posted bySunny J. Harris on August 31, 2000 at 00:04:36:

What are you afraid of. I read a lot of the posts you deleted and found them truthful, concerned and pointed.
They just were not pointed where you wanted to go.


Posted on Aug 31, 2000, 3:16 PM

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My Forum Message to Shambala ~Inflammatory? I think not.

by

It does not behoove you or your cause to disregard all thoughts & queries
which do not carbon-copy your own. I am hoping that my post will not be
summarily dismissed simply because I do not agree with the Shambala Bill AS
IT IS WRITTEN TO DATE. I believe that , if you truely consider it, a poorly
written bill which passes is more harmful and more difficult to un-do, than
is a Bill which allows the time to accomplish the true intent. If Shambala's
[the Bill] intent is to Protect the Interests of the Animals, it will not
accomplish this intent in the manner in which it is written to-day. You seem
to be aligning yourselves with Radical elements who have been actively
involved in the abolishment of Pet Ownership altogether.
This Bill is Punitive in application, and
damaging to Responsible Owners. I do not believe that it successfully
addresses the issues for which you had intended it, ie: The Protection of
the Public, the Protection of the Animals, and the Hunting Reserves. It has
developed too many tentacles, this Bill, and it's effectiveness declines the
more tentacles you add.
It has too many open-ended addition clauses, and too many "interprative"
loop-holes.
One such difficulty I see, is your identification of species,
sub-species, and breeds. Who will you appoint as the Ultimate Judge ? Who
will decide which animal will die? What are their qualifications? Will this
be a Board decision? And why is the Roar Foundation, and members of your BoD
exempt from any of these applicable punitive Laws and conditions?
I have many more queries about the ethical or NON-ethical as the case
may be nature of this Bill, but I suppose I will need to Learn whether or
not my queries will be summarily dismissed because they do not agree with
your own. Time will tell.


Posted on Aug 31, 2000, 4:33 PM

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SHAMbala has disabled their guest book

by Christine

This is the message you get when you try to view.

<<Thank you for visiting our pages.
We apologize to those wonderful people who were using this Guestbook and our Forum to sensibly discuss animal issues. Due to the flood of slanderous, libelous and malicious mail we were getting from the wolfdog owners, we have disabled both. They have their own forum for attacks and don't need to use our site at our expense.>>


Posted on Aug 31, 2000, 3:07 PM

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Posts to SHAMbala's guest book made today.

by Christine

Now where was anyone "slanderous, libelous and/or malicious"?



This is the second time I have tried to send a posting to the Forum. Maybe my remarks won't be construed as being slanderous this time. It is sad that those that suggested an open dialouge with wolfdog opposition to the Shambala Act as presented would do "routine houseclaeaning" as a way to stiffle the remarks and questions by those opposed to the Shambala Act. What might Tippi and those that wrote the Shambala Act be scared of?? One would think that the proponents for the Shambala Act would be clamoring at the doors of every organization in existence to support the legislation. I would repeat the questions but why take the time?? Those that either not capable or fear answering those questions would most likely deem them to be "slanderous" and omit the posting. That is sad - as Sunny invited questions and comments about the Legislation in an open forum and even stated that there would be new forums put into place to deal with the Shambala legislation. Sunny, Tippi and those that wrote the legislation and.or support it - "we" that oppose the Shambala legislation will either get answers to the questions here or at the hearings to be held on the legislation. The questions are not slanderous. The questions are real and point out the poorly written structure of the legislation. It's just a matter of where you answere the questions. It's your choice and "we" will be waiting. Greg.
Greg largent USA - Thursday, August 31, 2000 at 14:42:31 (EDT)

Goodness! It seems housecleaning must be an ongoing affair. Posts made just this morning asking questions about the SHAMbala bill appear to have already been tossed out. Seems there will be no answers forthcoming from this group. Wonder what they feel they have to hide?
Christine <casalobo@bellsouth.net> USA - Thursday, August 31, 2000 at 13:31:28 (EDT)

I too would like to know why you won't answer the simple questions that you have been asked? I also believe as many others do that this a self serving bill that if passed will cost the lives of many loving companions. How can anyone who claims to care about animals be promoting the death of thousands of animals that are living happy healthy lives?
Lisa Day <isiswolf@earthlink.net> USA - Thursday, August 31, 2000 at 13:06:37 (EDT)

I would like to know why important queries, asked in a respectful manner, have not been addressed on the Shambala Forum. I , personally, have some serious doubts about what I conceieve to be glaring loopholes in the writing of this Bill. So, my question to you, Sunny, & Tippi, is why will you not answer respectful and insightful questions put to you, the Authors of this Bill, yes? regarding Shambala? I would think you would be eager to present a well-rounded case for your Bill, and not a defensive face. If this Bill is all you have claimed it is, why are you acting so defensive & close-minded? I would very much like a response to my query. Thank You. Kat Mills Kat Mills <wolfdancer@home.com> CA USA - Thursday, August 31, 2000 at 12:42:56 (EDT)

This Bill will remove our rights to responsiblly keep the pet of our choosing. People you are trying to shove your ideas down everybody else's throats one way or the other. This bill you are promoting seems very bias and self serving. It will cost the lives of thousands of innocent pets that are happy well adjusted family members. You would have this done ? Why do you not stand up and answer the questions that are being asked in this forum ? If you cannot or will not,then I guess that speaks for itself , after all it is the SHAM-bala bill. signed; Jerry Mills Jerry Mills <lonewolf@ijntb.net> TX USA - Thursday, August 31, 2000 at 12:18:55 (EDT)

I am not posting to slander anyone but I do have a question and I hope that you will be able to answer it. I live my life with primates they are well cared for and very loved.
They are happy and they are safe. What do you suggest happens to these animals if Shambala passes? How can you feel it is ok to KILL all the exoctics in private homes?
We are responsable owners and have the knowledge to care for these animals mabye even more so then some the so called experts. Why will you not answer any of the questions that have been asked of you on the form? I feel it is because you know shambala is full of untruths. There are thousands of us that will fight this bill. We are the private owners the resposable owners. This bill will never pass and you know it that is why you will not reply to any of our emails. If you are so proud of this bill then answer our questions. How many animals do you feel it is ok to KILL to make you more popular and more money? And why are you calling the truth as we know it libelous or slanderous? What we say are not lies but truth and you know it that is why you remove our comments for this page. You are afraid to answer us because you can't. For those responsiable owners that have not done so it is time to stand up and be heard. Call your state and local goverment let them know you do not want this bill passed. BE HEARD!!!!!!!!!! PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS TO KEEP AND LOVE YOUR ANIMALS.
Cheryl Cheryl <LA4143@aol.com> In USA - Thursday, August 31, 2000 at 12:14:46 (EDT)

I do dog rescue and what I see over and over again is a combination of human irresponsiblity and ignorance that this proposed bill will have no affect on and will in turn punish responsible pet owners. It would seem more logical to me that all the time and effort spent in promoting this bill would be better spent in some kind of education program. Do you really think this bill will stop some bubba from getting a tiger cub if he is determined? On the other hand if uneducated person were to hear of the perils that will befall them before they buy that cuddly little tiger cub maybe they'd think twice. Its also tragic to think of all the animals that will die should this bill pass.
Again, where's the logic? Karen Babcock Karen Karen Babcock <kbabcock@gte.net> Grapevine, TX USA - Thursday, August 31, 2000 at 12:04:50 (EDT)

Routine clearing.
Sunny J. Harris <sunny@shambala.org> USA - Wednesday, August 30, 2000 at 23:58:58 (EDT)


Posted on Aug 31, 2000, 3:11 PM

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Seems messages disappear from the SHAMbala Guest book but

by

Here are a few posted this morning. Being as they won't last long over there, I think we should post updated posts here regularly, don't ya'll?

Goodness! It seems housecleaning must be an ongoing affair. Posts made just this morning asking questions about the SHAMbala bill appear to have already been tossed out. Seems there will be no answers forthcoming from this group. Wonder what they feel they have to hide?
Christine <casalobo@bellsouth.net> USA - Thursday, August 31, 2000 at 13:31:28 (EDT)

I too would like to know why you won't answer the simple questions that you have been asked? I also believe as many others do that this a self serving bill that if passed will cost the lives of many loving companions. How can anyone who claims to care about animals be promoting the death of thousands of animals that are living happy healthy lives?
Lisa Day <isiswolf@earthlink.net> USA - Thursday, August 31, 2000 at 13:06:37 (EDT)

I would like to know why important queries, asked in a respectful manner, have not been addressed on the Shambala Forum. I , personally, have some serious doubts about what I conceieve to be glaring loopholes in the writing of this Bill. So, my question to you, Sunny, & Tippi, is why will you not answer respectful and insightful questions put to you, the Authors of this Bill, yes? regarding Shambala? I would think you would be eager to present a well-rounded case for your Bill, and not a defensive face. If this Bill is all you have claimed it is, why are you acting so defensive & close-minded? I would very much like a response to my query. Thank You. Kat Mills Kat Mills <wolfdancer@home.com> CA USA - Thursday, August 31, 2000 at 12:42:56 (EDT)

This Bill will remove our rights to responsiblly keep the pet of our choosing. People you are trying to shove your ideas down everybody else's throats one way or the other. This bill you are promoting seems very bias and self serving. It will cost the lives of thousands of innocent pets that are happy well adjusted family members. You would have this done ? Why do you not stand up and answer the questions that are being asked in this forum ? If you cannot or will not,then I guess that speaks for itself , after all it is the SHAM-bala bill. signed; Jerry Mills Jerry Mills <lonewolf@ijntb.net> TX USA - Thursday, August 31, 2000 at 12:18:55 (EDT)

I am not posting to slander anyone but I do have a question and I hope that you will be able to answer it. I live my life with primates they are well cared for and very loved.
They are happy and they are safe. What do you suggest happens to these animals if Shambala passes? How can you feel it is ok to KILL all the exoctics in private homes?
We are responsable owners and have the knowledge to care for these animals mabye even more so then some the so called experts. Why will you not answer any of the questions that have been asked of you on the form? I feel it is because you know shambala is full of untruths. There are thousands of us that will fight this bill. We are the private owners the resposable owners. This bill will never pass and you know it that is why you will not reply to any of our emails. If you are so proud of this bill then answer our questions. How many animals do you feel it is ok to KILL to make you more popular and more money? And why are you calling the truth as we know it libelous or slanderous? What we say are not lies but truth and you know it that is why you remove our comments for this page. You are afraid to answer us because you can't. For those responsiable owners that have not done so it is time to stand up and be heard. Call your state and local goverment let them know you do not want this bill passed. BE HEARD!!!!!!!!!! PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS TO KEEP AND LOVE YOUR ANIMALS.
Cheryl Cheryl <LA4143@aol.com> In USA - Thursday, August 31, 2000 at 12:14:46 (EDT)

I do dog rescue and what I see over and over again is a combination of human irresponsiblity and ignorance that this proposed bill will have no affect on and will in turn punish responsible pet owners. It would seem more logical to me that all the time and effort spent in promoting this bill would be better spent in some kind of education program. Do you really think this bill will stop some bubba from getting a tiger cub if he is determined? On the other hand if uneducated person were to hear of the perils that will befall them before they buy that cuddly little tiger cub maybe they'd think twice. Its also tragic to think of all the animals that will die should this bill pass.
Again, where's the logic? Karen Babcock Karen Karen Babcock <kbabcock@gte.net> Grapevine, TX USA - Thursday, August 31, 2000 at 12:04:50 (EDT)

Routine clearing.
Sunny J. Harris <sunny@shambala.org> USA - Wednesday, August 30, 2000 at 23:58:58 (EDT)


Posted on Aug 31, 2000, 12:40 PM

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Gotta Do Drugs? Do 'em With Mom (These types behind Shambala?)<LOL>

by

Taken from the Arizona Republic 8/25/2000

And this is the type of people we are fighting? Who want our animals banned? <ROTFLMAO> Mother of the year? Phish! Rubbish! This is an article typed EXACTLY as it states in the Arizona Republic today.

Melanie Griffith, 43, has clarified comments she made to PAPER magazine about smoking marijuana with her kids and having them consult her rather than "go out and buy some(stuff) that has weird psychedelic chemicals in it."
The actress said she didn't intend to advocate that they use drugs.
"Because of my history with drugs, my children don't want to try anything," she said. "I was into cocaine and alcohol, which I don't do anymore,,,,I have said to my children, "If anyone comes up to you with pot or any drugs, please tell me first. If you feel like you have to do it, I would rather you do it with me than somebody else. " I would rather they not even try it. " End of article shows photo of Melanie with son Alexander at Taormina, Sicily, where she was honored last month at the Taormina Film Festival.

Now do we really think this is the type of mentality that has the right to tell US what our rights are as responsible exotic animal owners?

I don't particularly think it is productive for anyone to be loaded around exotic cats, or any other animal, much less their own children and advocating getting high with them.

Disgusting, and shameful!

But I didn't say it, the paper did.

Stormy


Posted on Aug 25, 2000, 9:03 PM

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Ms. Griffith

by

Well i heard that when she was attacked by one of her mother's cats she was high and went in to "pet the kitties"... =) A little "birdie" told me about this being published in a magazine. Can anyone find it so we can document it?

Dawn

Posted on Aug 25, 2000, 9:20 PM

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Yes, I would like to find that too.

by Stormy

To send to my HR, as well as the original clipping I posted.

I do not believe anyone should be around any animals high or drunk. Never.


Stormy

Posted on Aug 26, 2000, 2:19 PM

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Dawn & little "birdie"

by

Did this little birdie happen to remember which magazine and approximately when it was published? We do need a little info to try to find it.

Posted on Aug 31, 2000, 2:41 PM

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Oh, does "little birdie" go along with "creature?"

by

Care to elaborate? If you care to see the "newspaper" article I HAVE ON MY DESK, you may write and I will scan it. As to "little birdie" I have no clue what you are talking about.

Stormy

Posted on Aug 31, 2000, 4:37 PM

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Little Birdie

by

In Dawn's post she said a little birdie told her that a magazine had published an article that stated that Melanie Griffith was HIGH when she was mauled by her mother's tiger. I simply wanted to get more information so I could find the article and I figured the little birdie might remember what magazine or what year it was published. If you already have the article she was referring to I would love a copy of it.

Posted on Aug 31, 2000, 10:17 PM

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something close

by

Well I know from reading the book Cats of Shambala that Tippi's daughter was attacted by one of her mother's cats .I am not sure weither she was high or not but,if you read the book you see that,Tippi was a less than perfect animal owner. Here are some examples of her mistakes(since she thinks she so perfect) no.1 Tippi has been attacted, so has her daughter ,her husband ,her son,some of her workers ,a friend's child,a film dirctior(he worded on Speed)no.2 her animals have gotten loose several times,sometimes their excape could of been avioded with better enclosures.no.3 For a moive call Roar she put groups of animals together just so the'd fight. OK I know that wasn't what you asked but I know these things for a fact,and I don't think she should make a bill to get rid of private ownership when ,she is owning big cats herself.

Posted on Oct 6, 2000, 1:12 PM

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Amie

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Really, that is interesting. Her books says all that? Do you have this information available? If so please contact me.

Tippi wants to keep the responsible owners (not rich) from owning exotics herself exempted of course.

Posted on Oct 17, 2000, 11:21 AM

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Help needed in Michigan- DOES AFFECT ALL. Please consider helping.......

by

In a message dated 8/21/00 5:40:33 PM, blaidd@texas.net writes:

<< How can we know we are regulated if we cannot test to see that our Shepherd
X is a wolfdog?

If they can't prove it either what right do they have to confiscate the
animal? >>

Exactly why we have legal ground to challenge and overthrow the Michigan wolf dog ban. Vagueness is the number one reason the bill is unconstitutional, but there are several other minor points that Mr. Tanick will address.

We are filing out lawsuit in federal court, along with an injunction to stop the law from taking affect until the courts can hear it. This affects Shambala in many different ways.

First and foremost, Tippi has been keeping a close eye on what is happening in Michigan. She said so herself to us and I believe she also made reference on a radio program.

Michigan is a test case. Other states have started wolf dog bans and are also watching. If we successfully over throw SB 705, how many legislators in other states and at the federal level will pay any attention to Shambala?

The key word here is 'if'. However, our attorney would not have taken this case and the risk of damaging a well respected reputation because he thought he could lose. While there are no guarantees, he has had experience (successful experience) in over throwing such legislation.

I can't stress this enough; throwing out the wolf dog ban affects EVERYONE, not just wolf dog owners. It is extremely important that we succeed and we need your help to do so.

We have already paid Mr. Tanick $5,000 and have a $6,400 bill due within the month. We have been fundraising like crazy but still need another $4,300.

Last week I opened a paypal account (in order to receive credit card donations). Please, PLEASE consider donating. We have received donations ranging from the thousands to $2. EVERY LITTLE BIT HELPS!

And even if you absolutely cannot afford anything, please sign up for paypal, register your credit card and put us down as a reference (email: ZestVF@aol.com) We then receive $5. SO everyone can help, even if you think you can't.

If anyone needs or wants more information, please feel free to call or email.

Thanks, gloria
Michigan Wolf Dog Rescue
www.wolfdogs.org
810-364-2750

Go to www.paypal.com
email: ZestVF@aol.com

(I already had a paypal account under wlfdogrsq@aol.com. Hence the different addy. That is my personal account. Any funds accidentally sent there will go to the wolf dog checking account as well)


Posted on Aug 23, 2000, 6:43 PM

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Helping, indirectly. =)

by

In a message dated 8/21/00 5:40:33 PM, blaidd@texas.net writes:

<< How can we know we are regulated if we cannot test to see that our Shepherd
X is a wolfdog?

If they can't prove it either what right do they have to confiscate the
animal? >>

I'm glad i'm able to help, if indirectly!! grin

You know you have my support in whatever way i can give it. It is important that this bill gets over turned and that people get punished for trampling all over our rights.

Dawn
Brenin Draig Wolfdogs

Posted on Aug 25, 2000, 9:19 PM

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Is Oct. 29th the deadline date for our Wolfdogs?

by

Could someone out there please let us wolfdog
owners know what the heck is going on with
this court case? My son has made arrangements
for Monday to have his dog put down. No one
has gotten back with him as to the status of
this whole sitiuation.

Thank You

Posted on Oct 25, 2000, 8:43 PM

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Jacki

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I just saw this. I am trying to find out where the case stands for you. Tell your son not to do anything in too big a hurry.

Posted on Oct 28, 2000, 2:00 PM

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