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I wonder

by

Although we don't breed wolves/wolfdogs anymore, I can only remember one of my pups that I raised that got coccidiosis-a husky pup that was not bottle raised. I might have an idea why-maybe you can try this next time.
For some background on what I'm getting at, I have recently read some reports relating to the laying hen industry on eliminating or reducing the amount of salmonella enteriditis bacteria harbored in chicks. Basically, what they are doing is feeding the chicks products that have beneficial gut bacteria in hopes that the "good" bacteria will crowd out or make the gut an unfavorable enviroment for salmonella. The results show that they are having a pretty good success rate doing this.
Coccidia is also a gut bacteria. When we were bottle feeding, I always added a good dose of active live culture yogurt to the formula. We also used raw goats milk-which also contains bacteria and enzymes that help digest milk-pastuerization kills this stuff! I'm wondering if all the "critters" in my formula weren't crowding out or making it unfavorable for the coccidia.
We also left them with mama as long as possible-we usually pulled them at around 18 days (or the closest to 18 that fell on a weekend since both of us would be home). That way they got as much of that good mama wolf's milk as possible.
It's worth a try anyway-there is no research that I am aware of in canines like the chicken research but there may be something going on that is related.

Posted on Mar 23, 1999, 5:50 AM

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All I can do is guess :)

by

I think that there are far less wds than anybody has projected. Along with that, I would also guess that the vast majority of the canine related fatilities associated with wds were mis-identified as well.

How many times have we all had calls or gone out to look at a litter in the local paper, and they turned out to be just plain old dogs.

My guess would be 30,000 at most of documented wds.

Mike

Posted on Mar 22, 1999, 11:28 PM

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Coccidia/Coccidiosis in bottle fed wd's

by Christine

<<I'd be very interested in some thoughts and theories on this topic pertaining to wolves ad wolfdog
crosses.

Here's my observations.
Over the years, if I have bottle raised wolves, wolf hybrids and large breed dogs, they ALL develop
coccidia no matter how meticulous I am.>>

Beats me but I have had the same experiences.

I change the bedding several times a day, bathe the pups, do everything I can think of and, yet, my
pups still seem to develop coccidia at several weeks of age.

I have begun to believe that maybe other considerations might enter in concerning the severity as, this
past year, I had a pup to die from coccidia after being placed at 6-7 weeks. It had worms when I
took it in for it's health certificate.

I had used the wormer my vet had given me the year previous but, apparently, it had lost it's
effectiveness. When I took the pups in for their physical, my vet found both hooks and rounds.

He treated them for the worms and said they had no other problems.

I contacted the buyers and told them the pups had worms but had been treated and would need to
be treated again within 3-4 days.

The buyers said, "Send them on! Every pup has worms."

I did ship them and one buyer did everything right as far as feeding, cleaning the bedding, etc. His
pup did well but did need treatment for coccidia.

The other buyer did it all wrong.

They put the puppy on grain based dog feed, gave a commercial wormer, etc.

One pup lived, the other died.

I know that changes in diet, life style, sudden shocks,(ie. a plane trip) etc. can cause a flare up of
coccidia but it is amazing just how fast a pup can go down from this disease.

<<However, if the wolves/wofdogs/large dogs are left with the mothers, they don't develop it.>>

Can't comment on this aspect as we do have hi % pups and all are pulled and bottled.

<<I have not even seen a specific time frame when this occurs. Normally it has shown up between 4
and
5 weeks. Once treated, they're ok but I'm trying to figure out what triggers it during this time. I know
they're on solid food but is there something lacking in their diet that helps propagate the bacteria?
The only difference I've been able to see is left with the parents, they have access to dirt. Left with
me, they don't get any dirt until after 8 weeks old. The recent litter I raised had no problem and I
thought I had figured it out. However, they received their first puppy shot at 5 weeks and 24 hours
later developed coccidia. Not the vaccine (KF-11) but because their immune system was busy
creating antibodies, it allowed the present bacteria to take hold. >>

Again, this is a shock to their systems. Perhaps this is what triggers the attack of coccidia??

<<I really don't want to get in the habit
of dosing puppies as a preventive unless I have too. >>

My vet says "Preventative" measures don't work with coccidia but I still add a small amount of
Albon to their formula the first 3-4 days. Doc says it can't hurt so what the heck?

<<The other question concerns coccidiosis. Wolves and wolf hybrids can develop diarrhea fairly
easy
when under stress, etc. etc. etc. Is it possible that animals of this type just naturally harbor
coccidiosis which would explain reoccurrences in their lives and the fairly common problem of pups
developing coccidia. >>

Doc agrees it is more prevalent in some animals than others but ALL animals have the coccidia
bacteria present in their systems (even humans).

Seems to me that our chosen animals are more prone to several diseases than other animals.

I'm not sure but maybe many of the common diseases of domesticated dogs are prevalent among
wolves and they just haven't developed the immunities needed to overcome them yet.

By the way, I start my pups vaccinations at 3 weeks.

My vet used to argue that that was too soon until he lost a litter of Rotties he had vaccinated himself
and knew it was done right.

After that, he and another vet in Fla. started vaccinating at 3 weeks, then re-vaccinating at 4 weeks,
6 weeks, 8 weeks, 10 weeks, 12 weeks, 14 weeks, 16 weeks. Then at 20 weeks, 24 weeks and
26 weeks.

They never lost another pup. Now both vets recommends this schedule. Go figure!!

--
Christine
http://homepages.infoseek.com/~casalobo/casalobo.html



Posted on Mar 22, 1999, 11:27 PM

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Hi

by

A nice board, Suzanne, and thanks for the break.

Posted on Mar 22, 1999, 10:25 PM

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Hoooooowdy!

by

Posted on Mar 21, 1999, 6:20 PM

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Thanks for the invite~!

by Tundra Runner

Hope the BB is successful and everyone has some educational discussions.

Posted on Mar 21, 1999, 2:13 PM

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Thanks

by Christine

n/m

Posted on Mar 21, 1999, 7:11 AM

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