I took our 02 CR-V in for an oil change, and somehow the dealership fried the ECM. Now they claim the part is backordered, so my car has been at the dealership for almost two weeks. My question is, can't they just take the ECM from another CR-V and put it in my car? They claim they can't, because each serial number is unique. They seem to be able to find plenty of these parts at the assembly line!

I'm a posting machine today, too much time on my hands I guess.

Did they tell you how this occured? I wonder if they were doing the CEL fix and something went wrong. I have no idea about why they wouldn't have the part but I think you raise valid points. A call to Honda would be my next action if I were in your shoes. At the very least I hope they gave you a loaner (I'd ask for a V6 Accord coupe myself). Good luck and (I'm repeating myself) keep us informed.

They told us they don't offer loaners. Instead, they rented us a Pontiac Grand AM. No offense to any Grand AM fans out there, but YUCK! I didn't pay for a brand new CR-V to be driving around in a Pontiac sedan. Plus we asked for non-smoking and the ashtray was full of soot. Argh! Is it standard Honda policy to loan cars from the dealer, or is a rental considered an acceptable replacement?

Hmm, proabaly noty good business, but that dealer may not keep any or very few dealer owned cars.
It would be up to the owner to decide how he runs his business.

As for the ashtry, I would have told the rental company to get you a different car.

that seems to be one of the perks for the Acura division of Honda only. Some dealers that sell multiple makes of vehicles will have their own fleet of loaners and provide it as their own service. Personally, I find the Honda warranty really ****ty. I've never really done a comparison, but I imagine it is the worst of all car manufacturers and maybe on par with Toyota (another overly cocky manufacturer). With my cheap little Saturn, they offered free loaners, free roadside assistance (tow), 50k warranty on some parts, and a few other things. I've even had a friend with more than 100,000 miles on her Saturn call the 800 number on the window of the car and get a free tow because it was at night and she was scared. Her insurance co. was supposed to have sent someone and she waited on I-90 for more than an hour. As soon as she called, Saturn immediately towed it to the dealership for free and since the lot was closed, they paid for a cab ride home and a ride to the dealership to get a rental the next day--and that was with an old, used car not knowing if she would get the work done at the dealership or not. Now that is standing behind your product. Giving an owner with an older model a free loaner while work is being done is a great sales tool. A smart dealer would realize that it increases the chances of someone trading in their car for a newer model once they can drive it for the day or two work is being done on their old car.

The only way Honda can get away with such a crummy warranty is that the cars are relatively trouble free. But for those of us that did have a problem right out of the gate, it is a major turnoff. I had to drive a rented Geo Metro (aka golf cart) while my brand new CR-V was in the shop for a month because of a part that was on backorder. I also felt they should take the part from a new vehicle, but they refused. The fact is that they can't keep up with their production vs. sales numbers and there just aren't a lot of extra parts for accidents, malfunctions, etc. So, I know how you feel. I documented my concern about this with letters to American Honda Corp., the dealer, and on the buyer's survey. I suggest you do the same.

If the dealer fries something in your car I think they are OBLIGATED to provide you with another until they fix it. It's not your fault THEY screwed up. Warranty work technically is Honda's fault and they should provide for a loaner, but we keep buying them with the warranty as is so I doubt they will change.

I wouldn't indict Honda if a dealer doesn't offer a loaner. I mentioned it before, my dealer has several loaners available. When I took my 12 year old Accord that wasn't even bought there in for service they were out of loaners so they rented me a vehicle. It was an econobox but was perfectly adequate IMO. As far as Acura, you gets what you pay for. IMHO they are Honda's with a few extras for thousands of dollars more. But the dealers offer free loaners and coffee (I actually heard someone say this was the reason he bought an Acura) so they must be worth it (but my Honda dealer does that as well). Hondas can be taken to Acura for service and vice versa. My guess is the Acura dealer will treat you the same as if you were bringing in an Acura, but again I'm sure it is dependent on the dealer.

if your new 'V gets into an accident, or has a bad part, or the dealer damages the vehicle during a routine maintenance, and they can't get it fixed for weeks. If these types of problems are so rare, they should be a lot more accomodating. And I only dealt with the Am. Honda Corp. service rep. about this loaner situation because I knew it wasn't the servicing dealer's fault. If your new car is being held for more than a day because of their inability to provide parts in a timely manner, they should give you something comparable or better to drive while they get it together. I also think that overall, the 36K warranty on parts stinks. Even Mazda has a 50K bumper-to-bumper warranty and many manufacturers are covering all routine service up to 100K. I don't care about my Honda dealer's new work stations to plug in a laptop or self-serve coffee bar while I wait. I care about the big things.

I've had my share of issues/problems, etc. I don't think anyone would say problems are rare, even with Honda (and Toyota and Mazda, etc.). I deal with them as they occur. Life is too short to get so worked up about a car.

I was satisfied with my dealer's loaner policy. My vehicle was out of commision, they gave me something to drive. That was good enough for me. I haven't had a vehicle out of commision for more than a few days (even when a had domestic POS) so I can't really comment, but I don't wish that on anyone.

Honda isn't the only automaker out there. If a longer warranty is important, I would think Honda would be one of the first crossed off the list since their warranty is one of the most restrictive. But for some reason Honda keeps setting sales records.

Many people equate higher price with higher quality (Acura??). Tell that to the MB buyers who have problems or the Jaguar people or the BMW owners or even the Acura buyer. Although I guess it is ok because they give them a comparable loaner. Or do they? Does the BMW 7 series owner get a 7 series as a loaner or just a lowly 3 series?, How about the RL owner? I guess he or she might just have to make do with a TL.

They mentioned something about needing to have all our keys so they could reprogram them when the ECM arrives. If they have to reprogram everything anyway, why does the serial number matter? Couldn't they take the ECM from another CR-V and reprogram the keys to match, remotes, etc? Won't they have to do this anyway when the backordered ECM arrives?

I'm just wondering if it's technically possible, or just a matter of policy. The dealership told me it was technically impossible. But if I find out I had to wait weeks for something that COULD have been fixed in a few hours, I'll be miffed

First the biggest one: If you went to Honda to buy a new CR-V and they tried to sell you one at sticker or above, would you be happy to find out that it had been stripped for parts once or twice while sitting on the lot? If I found out a dealer pulled this on me I'd blow a gasket right out my ear hole. It's one thing to move floor mats or a wheel cover, but don't even THINK about removing anything associated with the mechanicals/electrical.

Lets say the dealer needs a pulley for a 99' V'. He can't get a pulley until 3 in the afternoon and has promised the customer their vehicle by 1:00. Would you be pleased to find out they pulled the part off your vehicle because you weren't coming until 5:00?

Sure, it stinks to be tied up in service but thats all part of owning a car. (Honda or otherwise)

Next: If you take your car in for service and they can't get the part for a day or 2 there is NO reason the dealer should HAVE to provide you with a loaner. Do you a favor and discount a rental would be good business, but it certainly isn't required. When your Fridge breaks down do you get a free loaner? Hot water heater? TV? You get the point. As I said earlier, a warranty repair is a grey area. In my opinion if its a warranty repair it was something that Honda agrees should not have gone wrong and they should (in good faith) try to accomodate the owner by working with the dealer. But then again the cost of your warranty is built into the price of your vehicle so getting more perks will only inflate the cost of your vehicle.

On the other hand, if I show up to pick up my car and the dealer informs me they fried my computer during service you can bet your expletive they had better be providing me with alternate transportation equal or greater than what I brought in to be serviced. It's not my fault they screwed up and thats just part of the liability they take on when working on my vehicle. To inconvienience (sp) me further by sticking me in anything less than what I brought in is just added insult.

Uh oh....I've been ranting again.....

I realize the dealer's reluctance to cannibalize a new car. I also know they can't keep EVERY part in stock all the time, and sometimes even the regional parts warehouse may run out of parts. But even if this part had to be specially shipped from the assembly line in Japan, it should have arrived by now!!! Is there an ECM shortage or something? If so, it doesn't seem to affect the steady flow of new CR-V's flying out of the Honda showrooms.

I don't think you are ranting, this seems to be a fairly healthy discussion although when people start saying wait until this happens to you it is getting dangerously close to getting mean spirited. I don't wish anyone bad.

I agree with you on most points, although I wouldn't doubt that someone, somewhere took a part from this vehicle to use on that vehicle. I've actually used the other appliance route in other discussions, it never seems to fly. People just feel differently about cars and what is owed to them when there are problems.

Regarding the loaner thing, I'm not sure why people are getting so bent out of shape. Someone mentioned an accident. Not sure if they were meaning if because of the accident someone might have to wait for parts but I don't know why the body shop should provide me with a loaner, isn't that why I have a rental car provision on my insurance? And I did remember a situation, 17 years ago my car was out of commission due to an accident and I rented a car using my policy. If the accident isn't your fault, their insurance usually covers it anyway.

I was totally suprised that my dealer offered to rent me a car. But now that he did it once I guess I will expect it again. And yes I agree with you 100% regarding them making an error and what they should do to make it right. IMO it all goes back to catching more flies with honey (or whatever). My dealer waived the cost of the replacement part and labor (although how much it really cost them is debatable) as a good will gesture because the first part he replaced wasn't the culprit. Had I been screaming and yelling at him I doubt that would have occurred and being a little paranoid who knows what they would have done to my car.

Enough of this for me. It's Friday, 82 F outside, I'm going to take a ride. That's why I bought my CR-V, not to debate the merits of the warranty or whether I should get a comparable loaner, but to enjoy the vehicle.

Have a nice weekend.

The title of my previous post was not mean spirited. It was to imply that until you are in that situation, you don't know what it is like. A reminder to put yourself in someone else's shoes, if you will, not a curse of something bad to happen. Sheesh! And why the fuss over a car? Well, because you spend more than $20,000 on this and a TV or other appliance is usually less than $1,000. It's not the same. Plus, what is a car? A car gets you from point A to point B safely and reliably. When it fails to do that when relatively new, most people would find a big problem with that given their substantial investement. That's fine if you feel it is just a machine and they will break down and can be sympathetic with the manufacturer, but to others this car is part of their livelihood and they need to be able to depend on it. When it fails, they expect compensation, not access to a phone to call Enterprise to pick you up and pay your own car payment plus $25 a day for a rental while they wait for parts. I wouldn't want to be in the car business, the manufacturers have an obligation to make products that are safe and reliable and that involves many variables. If they want to be the best at their business, they have to stay at the top of their game and be competitive. In this area, I see this particular company has a flaw. That is my opinion.

Lastly, regarding the "accident" comment, we are talking about two issues here. The inability to get parts in a reasonable amount of time and a loaner car. If you have a defective part OR are in an accident and the shop can't get the part fromt he supplier, this results in the need for a loaner. Expect to wait awhile for parts on a new CR-V. Honda is having a problem meeting the demand when an issue arises. Then, when they do get themselves into a bind with a new customer whose car is out of commission, they are not consistent about how they deal with the situation. My suggestion to them is to always offer a vehicle that is the same or better than the vehicle in the shop and not to leave this in the hands of the dealer.

The point of my posts are to just encourage others who have been in this unfortunate situation to also let Honda know that the buying experience could be better if they stand behind their product and offer a better warranty, loaner car, roadside assistance, etc. There is always room for improvement and forums like this are designed to share experiences and ideas.

after reading all three of your comments, I have to say they all made rational sense, we all at times wear our autos on our sleeves, and become quite proud of them, and at other times it becomes a love hate relationship, I understand wholly Honda Girls comments concerning the need for better Dealership relations with thier customers needs and situation, but also the the comments made by BG, and SuperG, are also substantial in merit, all your comments that you three made are very worthwhile and informational to the readers of this site, and I feel, they were NOT meant to be hurtful or spiteful, I think it was more in the heat of the discussion, but either way you three made some very good observations and comments, and hope all future postings between all of you are congenial and as informative............

I could go to the other end of the spectrum. If your house develops a mold problem or a portion burns down do you get a loaner? Is your stay at the hotel free? If it is, that's YOUR insurance paying for it.

I'm not sympathetic to the manufacturer, I'd like a loaner included too!! The fact is that as long as I have been driving (15 years) or my parents have been driving when your vehicle breaks it's up to you to get around while its in the shop. More recently I have noticed many dealer shops have courtesy transportation shuttles and yes some even do loaner vehicles, but it's still a business and they aren't giving anything away. Free loaner? Sure, we'll just jack up our rates to compensate for it. At this point I've lost the original intent of your issue....was this a warranty issue or a regular service issue? I know Lexus gives you a free loaner. (as do many of the expensive brands) Perhaps it just a matter of pay now or pay later. Pay more for your car now and get the degree of service you were expecting or buy a less expensive vehicle and pay for the rental later.

I purchased a 3rd party warranty for my 02' V' and it gets me lodging and a rental ($200 for lodging and I think $30 a day for a rental) for a week if my car breaks down. It also has roadside assitance. It cost me an additional $1000, but I have 7 years/100,000 miles of that coverage. (NO DEDUCTABLE!!!) So, for the first 3 years/36,000 miles roadside assistance and rental/lodging coverage costs me $143 a year. That pays for itself if I have to have a rental for a week regardless of wether its an accident or a warranty issue. For the remainder of the warranty the same cost gets me all that PLUS a possibly better warranty that Honda's factory warranty. Will I ever need to use that warranty? Given Honda's rep., most likely not. But really its darn cheap insurance. I can pay for it by skipping a lunch out once a week.

Some would argue it would be better spent to put that $1000 in a savings account and use it if something ever goes wrong, but that doesn't get me roadside assist. and it's only there until the $1000 runs out. (these days it wouldn't take too much).

Honda could offer all these things, but like I said before, you're going to pay for it one way or the other. Better warranty means a higher sticker price.

This is just a guess.
I bet the ECM is technically swapable.
They would have to reprogram the vehicle specifics like keys and remotes.
Ten do the same when the new ECM arrives.
It may also be against either sealer policy, Honda policy, or even some wonderfull do-gooder politicians silly laws.
Or it could be they just don't have a vehicle sitting on the lot that they want to make unsellable when the option is to pay $20-30 a day in rental fees.
Don't complain, that is probably the same decision you would make if you owned the dealership.
If you are realy miffed, call Honda Customer Service.
The number is in your owner's manual, on the web site, on the customer satiusfaction survey they sent you, and available at the dealer.