Hi!!


Mister 8, in his wonderful I SPY tribute" has included a nice video clip of Bob's visit to THE COSBY SHOW in 1987
as Scott Kelly, Cliff Huxtable's old friend.





Thought we should preserve it here on the FORUM, too ....


"The Bald and the Beautiful" Reunion on THE COSBY SHOW




and the direct link

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4814310331535439537&hl=en







Unfortunately, we don't have any videoclips of their other get-together on COSBY in 1999, where Bob re-appears as "Kelly Robinson" in the "My Spy" episode where Lucas Hilton dreams he is "Alexander Scott." It was a light-hearted, fun, and campy reunion with loads of I SPY connections and memory buttons pushed.


"My Spy" Reunion on COSBY










... And of course, there is the classic big screen film noir reunion HICKEY & BOGGS in 1972. We've discussed this film at length, and as has been noted, our admiration and appreciation for this film was not shared by the general viewing audience at the time. Al Hickey and Frank Boggs were dark, down-on-their-luck, intense men ... characters that were not readily embraced by the matinee movie-goers looking for Kelly and Scotty.


HICKEY & BOGGS










and the direct link

http://www.videodetective.com/movies/HICKEY__BOGGS/trailer/P00359791.htm








Which brings us to the I SPY RETURNS TV movie in 1994. (Perhaps having photos here is preferable to a videoclip.)


I SPY RETURNS














O.K. as avid I SPY aficionados here, you probably have strong feelings about these reunions (and should)! Of course, it is always wonderful to see our guys together - anytime, anyplace - but these were some very different venues that differed in approach, style, and quality.


SO .... of the 4 Culp & Cosby Reunions - which was your favorite and which was not and why?
And can these 4 be compared at all??





As always,

Tatia




~ ~

Well, assuming we all know H & B is the class of this crew, it leaves the other 3, and I've got to go for the original Cosby episode. No great shakes, but the 2nd COSBY reunion was a mess -- the show was much lazier than the original Cosby show, and Culp, if I recall, actually seemed rather lost, and appeared to be reading much of his material off of cue cards. I remember being rather worried about him when I saw it, gladly whatever the situation was it wasn't serious, as he's had another near 20 years of good work since it.

I SPY RETURNS was, of course, dopey, and one wishes Cosby and Culp might've pulled a little more weight to make it better -- but I don't think Cosby took these wars as seriously as Culp did, and clearly he got along with Leonard as well as Culp, so maybe he figured the favor he was doing wasn't only to Culp, but to Leonard too, so he didn't make many waves. But the plotting and scenario is lame -- the 2 leads are pretty good, which is why I guess in some ways it could technically be the 2nd best reunion, but I think it's aim was so low compared to what it could've been. So the 1st Cosby Show reunion is the one that puts a mild smile on my face, so that's gotta be top of the list after H & B...

As I said before for whatever reasons I didn't like The Cosby Show all that well but I'm sorry I missed this one.

Also Why was I Spy Returns shown on CBS instead of NBC?

The same thing happened with The Man From Uncle Reuturns or whatever it was called.

Originally on NBC but the Movie speical was CBS.

Well, I guess I'll have to go with the first Cosby show--Bald and Beautiful. That is just so perfect and Culp was certainly at his most handsome! Although, I did enjoy them together in the "I Spy Reunion", not due to the bad plot, which I agree with Culp could have been much better and would have been without children involved, but that banter and camaraderie they always have together.

Mona

Guess I should weigh in here, too.

I certainly agree with Mona that our Mr. Culp was looking mighty fine in that 1st COSBY reunion "The Bald and the Beautiful" (and so did Dr. Huxtable, there). I think it was the first time we saw Bob sporting that great "Silver Fox" look. Loved the homage to "Scott Kelly"! - and it was certainly great seeing our guys "playing" together again ....

But, I have to say that I really liked the 2nd COSBY reunion more - the "My Spy" episode. This is the one where "Lucas Hilton" falls asleep on the couch while watching an I SPY Marathon on TV and dreams he is Alexander Scott. Oh, it was a bit over-the-top campy at times, but you could see it was all done with lots of love and admiration! And there were definitely hands involved here who truly knew their I SPY .... you had the locked room, Scotty's always masterful escape plan, the poor murdered puppet on the little stage, the femme fatales (and one named Tatia, no less!) ... all those delicious touches served up just for the true I SPY fan (and I think we can count Messrs. Culp and Cosby at the top of that list). This "reunion" get-together was endearing, light-hearted, delightful, and totally charming - and it certainly brought a big smile to my face!

In balance to that, "Hickey & Boggs" is a classic film noir - so well done! I thought both Culp and Cosby put in truly excellent performances - and Culp's directing was smooth and done with finesse. This movie can stand right up there with Philip Marlowe and Sam Spade - and hold its own. Unfortunately, as I mentioned before, these dark, worn, intense characters and their dark tale were not what the matinee movie goers in Topeka wanted to see, when they were expecting Scotty & Kelly up there together again.

I don't know how the movie was promoted at the time of its release ... and if the Culp & Cosby "reunion" aspect was the main draw in its advertising. But when viewing "Hickey & Boggs" now, after all these years, the artistic quality of the movie stands out clearly - the dark, deep depths of men's souls is an intriguing subject when done right - and it was done right here - a very well made film, and yes, a very dark film, also.

And that brings us to "I Spy Returns"... again, it's always great seeing our guys together again, but this one ranks at the bottom of the list - starting with that dreadful synthesized music. Many of us have read about the machinations going on behind-the-scenes with this production - regarding the script, the writer, the villain, the music - it's sort of amazing that it ever got made. Just the premise that Kelly Robinson would have become a high-ranking office dweller in the agency was ludicrous ... never! - or - that Scott and Kelly had not seen each other in over 25 years, just exchanging Christmas cards ... come now, never!! The whole movie smacked strongly of "pilot" to me with the kids eventually taking over the franchise - Salli Richardson was fine, but "Bennett," Kelly's son, came off far too bland.

But on the bright side, I read the script for this thing - and the finished project was so much better than what was originally written. (You can find it at places like scriptcity.com - it is titled "I SPY - The Comeback Kid" - that is, "if" you really want to invest your hard-earned dollars on this thing? ... ) Lots of re-writing or ad-libbing was liberally added, that brought the script up many notches before it hit the airwaves. The "tied-up without any clothes in the locked room scene" - originally had this long dialogue session about how they each should have had the other's child - all set in "tennis" terms. It was dreadful! - The scene that was eventually shot was one of the best in movie - and played up the relationship of the two men and how they parted. Culp and Cosby were certainly involved in those changes! And there really were some very nice moments between our two guys, but sadly it wasn't enough to save this thing.

O.K. let's hear from some more of you ... we are trying to have a discussion here - come on in !!!


As always,

Tatia




~ ~

Hello, all,

Am I the only one who COULD see Kelly staying with his mysterious Pentagon job, perhaps out of love for the woman who birthed his child, and cleaning up the booze? We have no knowledge of the woman, but it seems that Kelly is a single dad and for how long, we don't know, but I think Kelly could indeed have straightened up his act for the sake of his son.

Even though Kelly HAD an office, he was the Head of Field Operations, so one can assume he still went into the Field at times, like with his son and Scotty's daughter. Although it may not have been frequent, which is logical, as he was 64 years old; really too old to be spying anymore and suffering injuries. I really never had problems how they presented Kelly's career in this show; nor with Scotty's being a professor.

However, I hated like everyone else the idiotic idea that the two of them hadn't stayed in touch.

Mona

Hi,

Well, they actually did make the best of Kelly as "Director of Field Operations" - "if" you go with "seeing is believing."





But I think the way Kelly Robinson's character was developed, throughout the original series, is one of a maverick (always really alone, except for his partner, the one person he truly trusts). Kelly is an emotional, independent risk-taker - a man who thinks on his feet, and one who "reacts" quickly, relying on his training and innate abilities, not always thinking things through first.

AND he is definitely NOT a man who blindly follows rules and regulations. He bucks authority and relies on his own judgment and cunning (and that of his partner's). And the "agency" or "powers that be" approved of his methods. Kelly and Scotty were left to their own devices on an assignment, and they got the job done. In the WAR LORD, their superior tells them - "Get that girl out at any cost." And THAT is how Scotty and Kelly operated. In LET'S KILL KARLOVASSI, they were ordered to kill Karlovassi, but they decided they were not going to follow orders after meeting him, feeling that this was "no good" - "not the thing for them." (Even though the "agency" turned out to be totally right and the guys dead wrong on this one.)

In Dick Van Dyke's Dr. Sloan series, DIAGNOSIS MURDER, Culp plays an older Kelly Robinson character. The name is different, but "everything else" about him is Kelly. He has ended up as a "DISCARD" (which is also the name of the episode), which means that he has become an "analyst" for the department, "pushing papers in a room." And along with that, he has also ended up always keeping a bottle near at hand!

See Culp's views of how Kelly ended up - (check out the end of this posting) ....

http://www.network54.com/Forum/172251/message/1175537279

Kelly and Scotty's strength were that they were so independent - in their actions and thoughts, and that made them very, very effective agents.

And those qualities that made Kelly such an effective agent, the ones that were part of his make-up and character, are exactly the qualities that would keep him far, far away from ending up a "High-Ranking Office Dweller" in the department. Kelly always bucked authority, and to me, it was a huge stretch for him to end up as part of "the" authority.

But Mona is right, people can change, especially with the right motivation. But in Kelly's case, I just don't see him ending up inside in a corner office as head of a department of anything!

Other views and opinions out there .... ???


As always,

Tatia


P.S. Hi Sue - welcome to FORUM - I enjoyed your posting.



~ ~

Thanks for the welcome, Tatia.

This is certainly an interesting question...I could see Kelly in an office, but it would need to be in some exotic locale as far from the higher ups as possible so he could occasionally spend time in the field doing things his way - I don't see him completely desk bound at all! It seems he was pretty respectful when visitng Gabe and other superiors for the most part - but since he and Scotty traveled around the world, he only had to occasionally check in - I wonder if Kelly could handle dealing with top brass more often.

I re-read the re-union parts of Marc and Linda's book and realized Bob had actually written two scripts at two different times - in the first, Kelly was still working for the "Department" and in the other Kelly was a consultant for a security sytem company (I'm guessing Kelly spent his time testing systems by breaking into places buying security), so it sounds like Bob couldn't see him at a desk either.

I agree completely that Scotty and Kelly's loyalty and friendship would have lasted beyond their parting from the Department. Christmas cards would not be enough.

That said, maybe that would be a good exercise - if we generally agree that the I Spy reunion TV movie was not our cup of tea, and we were to write an outline for a reunion script - what would happen to our guys? Would one or the other leave the department and what would they be doing?

(Of course, some of us would like to see Scotty and Kelly forever beautful and young in 1965!).

Sue

Just for the fun of it, I am going to continue this friendly debate.

Kelly and Scotty did not by any means buck rule and regulations all the time. In fact, it was their sticking to their job and their orders which caused Kelly so much angst at times. Now and then they tried to buck orders, like when Kelly was told to kill his old friend, but at the end of the episode, there he was doing it, and righteously so, after Scotty was shot. Kelly and Scotty had freedom in the way they did their job, to some extent, but their job was to follow orders, and do what the Pentagon ordered them to. If they had not been diligent in that way they would have been out of work. The Pentagon did not glorify them, as we all know, and had a lot of other agents to work with, so Kelly and Scotty did what they had to do to get the job done, no matter the cost to their peace of mind.

Culp himself said that by his 30s, getting hurt on the job as an actor, well, HURT. By 51, when he was on TGAH, he said he did some action scene and couldn't get out of bed the next day. Plus, his one track injury in high school caused him significant arthritis in his neck. I think we have to apply this also to an aging Kelly, who has a significant history of injuries himself. I can't imagine that as he got a little older, getting hurt, getting punched etc. , having some arthritis, would start looking very UNappealing, and not something like a typical adrenaline rush. Only in the movies do punches not really hurt, and bullets not seriously wound. If we are looking at "real" life to analyze Kelly's aging, it is simply realistic to understand he would have to pull back from wanting to stay active in spying and danger, at least if he kept inhabiting Culp's body, which DEFINITELY didn't want to even act out simple fight scenes by his early 50s.

Last, I don't think folks are truly considering the importance of a child in Kelly's life. We know he had a problematic childhood with his mom dying early, which caused him to lose the special summers he had with his Aunt and Uncle. He was desperate for family in his life, I think, which is why the special closeness with Scotty caused him to see Scotty as a brother, not just a friend, or spy partner. He even called Scotty's mother "mom", himself. If Kelly had loved a woman and had a child with her, we can make all sorts of extrapolations that she would have, say, upon her early death, asked him to get out of active work entirely for the sake of being there for their child. Anyway, Kelly did have extreme loyalty and the importance of family as huge personality traits; I find it odd to believe he'd drop his son off somewhere (the astronaut to be!), and simply be dallying all over the world, still drinking, sleeping and being very egoistic. I think he would see those years as past, and I do think he could settle down into a career which was half in the field, supervising, and half shuffling some paperwork, to be around his boy. As for the paperwork issue, please recall he and Scotty did have to regularly do paperwork as field agents; writing up and turning in expense accounts, and the accounts of their recent case.

Anyway, Kelly as office dweller with a lovely relationship with his son (showing that he had a big part in his life), still seems to me like a very valid possibility of Kelly's later years.

Mona

Hi Mona,

Yes, I'll concede that Kelly could possibly have turned over a new leaf, "IF" he had a child, or especially if he had become a single parent ...

BUT ... if that was not the case, I still find it hard to see him ending up in a Dept. Head role - in a corner office down a long hallway filled with lots and lots of other offices. (That is the mainstay of lots and lots of government jobs here - just change the department name.)

As I mentioned, the "older" Kelly character Culp played in DIAGNOSIS, MURDER had him in an office, but as a "Discard" - a paper-pushing analyst, not in a power position (at least not until the end of the story). That came off quite believably, as did his attachment to a bottle.

One other "older" Kelly scenario that appeared pretty believable was in a movie called MERCENARY (1997).





I can't say that I'd recommend this one, it was a very violent action adventure movie with a strangely cast John Ritter, as an extremely wealthy businessman whose wife is massacred at some charity dinner event. He is obsessed with getting the men responsible, which leads him to track down some terrorists led by a man called Phoenix (Martin Kove). Ritter is way out of his league dealing with these men, so he turns to an ex-commando soldier-of-fortune for hire - Oliver Gruner (think like a Jean-Claude Van Damme's younger brother-type). He does security, delicate business and financial transfers, kidnapping money drops, things along those lines. His partner is an older version of this guy, who handles the logistics and the back-up ... yep, he's played by our Bob. Drinking didn't get to him, but the cigarettes did, and his health is not great. So the active "out in the field" parts of their jobs are handled by Gruner, and the quieter money transfer, planning, running the operation part, at the scene, is in Bob's hands. (Though things don't stay quiet for him in this movie.)

This was a pretty believable path for an older Kelly to follow - where he could use his expertise and knowledge gained over the years.

Where Bill Maxwell was a company man down to his undies, Kelly was always far more of a maverick. Given the choice, I can see an "older" Kelly more as a "security" expert for hire, than as a government Dept. head dealing with the shovelfuls of bureaucracy landing on his office desk. And as Sue said, "I wonder if Kelly could handle dealing with top brass more often." (Of course, the government has great health and dental plans, if you stick around.)

As for Scotty retiring to become a college professor in I SPY RETURNS .... that worked well. I could also see him continuing on in the department as an instructor of new agents.

It is fun to think of the possibilities of "Where are they now?" - and not just for Kelly and Scotty, but for lots of the characters that were so well-drawn in different episodes .... like what became of Angel in "The Loser," or Catherine in "The War Lord," or Tony Bill's Gary in "Father Abraham," or what is Col. Benkovski up to these days?? And is Dr. Akivic running bizarre therapy programs in his prison ward???


As always,

Tatia


~ ~

I enjoyed the Cosby Show episode Bald and Beautiful. It was just 30 minutes, but was so much better than the "I Spy Returns" movie. I have never seen the Cosby "My Spy" episode - it sounds like fun! I read an interesting section in Marc and Linda's excellent "I Spy" book which discussed a script that Robert Culp wrote that sounded more true to the original series - a pity Bob couldn't have turned that one into a novel since it wasn't produced. Sigh...