Hey everyone,
I'm feeling utterly confounded by what to do for the next stage of my life, and I was hoping you sage folks might have some words of wisdom. I am in my last year of undergrad, and although there are some things I'm thrilled about when I look back at my undergraduate past, there are also some things I wish I had done differently. I chose to attend a small public liberal arts school in the middle of nowhere and commute to NYC every month or so for a few voice lessons with a truly excellent teacher who was unaffiliated with a university. Pros of this decision: I started to develop a useable technique, I certainly don't have very many BAD habits, and I got to work with someone who was truly extraordinary. I also got a well-rounded undergraduate education, and in addition to studying a great deal of music history and theory, I also speak French and German (I chose an interdisciplinary major in music and forgeign languages). Cons: I only got to see my voice teacher once a month, which meant that the vocal progress I made was sluggish and not particularly productive. Additionally, because the majority of my life was consumed by academics, the desire to get straight A's to get scholarships and fund my commuting to NYC was overwhelming, and I ended up not practicing as much as I should have and being a fulltime student and a part time singer, when it really should have been the other way around.

This past summer, I started thinking about graduate school, because I have the desire to devote the next few years of my life exclusively to singing. I started singing for some people at top schools in the Northeast that I naively assumed might be interested in me, and had the wake-up call of my life. My technique was still a mess! I sang for some famous teachers at Juilliard and was told I had loads of talent, beautiful tone quality, musicianship, etc, but it was HIGHLY doubtful that I would be technically ready to advance to the graduate level a year from now. To make an already long story short, I started working with a new teacher recently (through a number of odd, unanticipated circumstances), and he is working diligently with me to fix the basics, to cement my breath and really get my scales even. This teacher is, also, extremely well-known and well-respected. He thinks I have a great voice, with a lot of promise, and has been pleased with the progress that I have been making in correcting my technical problems. Up until I met him, I was singing advanced song and concert repertoire, advanced operatic arias, etc, but I haven't sung a piece of music for over a month, just vocalises. My teacher wants to start me on some basic song repertoire in the next few weeks, and thinks I would be best to transfer to a music school/conservatory for undergrad next year, rather than graduate from my current school or try to shoot for a graduate program.

I think this is an excellent idea; however, I'm kind of at a loss for where to apply. I would love to attend a school like CCM that has a fantastic reputation, but I am 21-years-old, and I worry about what level I would have to be at to be accepted in a place like that at my advanced age. Also, I have absolutely no money, and would have to be given considerable financial support in order to attend. I think I have a lot of vocal talent (I have sung for a LOT of very renowned performers and teachers who think I "have what it takes"), and a lot of innate musicality, which I will probably be able to demonstrate through some well-prepared song literature and maybe an operatic aria if I really improve! I should also have a more stable technique by the time I audition next winter, if I keep improving at this rate.

I'm a mezzo, and what I'm really looking for in the next step of my life is a rigorous and challenging musical environment to help me get to the next level with my technique and musicality. I would probably want to transfer in at the junior level, which would allow me to actually earn my degree from the school I'm transfering to, instead of my unknown undergrad.

Fundamentally, however, I'm feeling lost and really confused by this whole process. To be accepted as an undergraduate transfer (hopefully with a little funding) at a place like CCM, what level would I have to be at? I'm also interested in BU, since they seem to be turning out good singers and their program looks very performance-oriented. I suspect shooting for schools like these is probably shooting too high, so I am very interested in other suggestions for schools that are really good, either affordable or capable of providing scholarships, and that I might have a shot of getting into as an undergraduate transfer. I was looking at UMichigan, because George Shirley teaches there, and he is a friend of someone I've worked with. Any other suggestions?

Thanks to ALL who respond!

...but don't study with George Shirley. He has messed up many a voice.

Pelton's okay, Herseth's okay, Racine's okay. Do NOT study with Shirley, Washington, Lussman, or Verrett.

It is a good place to transfer into, and do NOT worry about your age. 21 is fine for an undergrad.

BU may have changed but when I was in grad school most of the female students there were screaming and pushing.

I've also heard a mixed bag about CCM. I think it's fine if you're a singer, but Cincinnati is a terrible city.

I'd check out UConn, College Park (they have lots of cash), and maybe some of the SUNY colleges.

I don't think you REALLY have to worry about having some big fancy school as your undergrad. That's what grad school is for. I'd ask your teacher about teachers HE knows and respects, and go from there.

Good luck.

Herseth has had some good students. Who were good before she got there. Racine has jacked up everyone I know who has studied with her. Herseth is non-effective and Racine is a hot mess.

I mean, what, say Pelton is the only one worth your time? That seemed kind of rude. Alas, thanks for being honest for me.

I went to Michigan and do not aggressively recommend it to any young singers but some of the points you have made are off-the-mark and unhelpful. Verrett is no longer a teacher there, she is quite ill. The other teachers you have mentioned, including Pelton, have their share of "mess-ups" also. Shirley also has his share of successes. You will find that this happens everywhere and with every teacher. I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with hism, and, again, I have many issues with the school. I would not necessarily recommend it, but your post was flippant and came across as extremely pompous. For the original poster, it should be noted that CCM is VERY reasonable financially, especially compared to Michigan, which is not comparable academically in any way. It is very difficult to get a good teacher at CCM as an undergrad and, as is the case with most schools, it has it's great teachers and it's mediocre ones. The oppurtunities for undergrads are few but if you can find a good fit with a teacher I think it is worth every penny and then some. (and yes, living in Cincinnati is no good)

Thanks for your responses, everyone! So, the general consensus seems to be that if you can get in with a good teacher, CCM is a great school. A few more questions:

1. Who are the best teachers at CCM? I have heard a lot of positive things about William McGraw, but I don't know very much about the rest of the faculty.

2. My initial question still stands: how competitive is it to get into this school as an undergraduate transfer? I don't consider myself particularly polished (still have technical issues to work out), but I think I have a lot of vocal talent, decent technique, musicality, good language skills, oh, and excellent grades (not sure if that makes any difference!). Is CCM the kind of school that tends to only accept undergrads who have a huge amount of polish and experience, or could someone like me have a chance? I'm trying to figure out if it is worth applying. I checked out their website and was shocked to learn how affordable it is (compared to BU and the other private schools I was looking at).

3. If I can get some good recommendations for teachers at CCM, I was thinking it might be worth it for me to fly to Cincinatti to meet and sing for some of these folks in person, and perhaps have a sample lesson or two. Sound like a good plan, or waste of resources?

Thanks a bunch for all the replies so far! I'm glad to hear I'm not necessarily over the hill, so-to-speak

Here are some answers for you...

--McGraw & Honn are the most well-known teachers at CCM, and may well be the best, but the others, Shaw, Lykes, etc., are very good also. I would have killed to study with them as an undergrad.

--The undergrad program is not AS competetive as the grad programs, but there are still plenty of great young singers (such as yourself) that have loads of potential. Many of them get accepted to the MM program, some don't, but it's definitely a leg up if you do undergrad work there and they know you & your voice. You might just wait a year and finish your undegrad elsewhere too. Their "acceptance criteria" to the grad program is almost soley based on potential and if they think they can make something useful out of you in 2 years. This is why it is a "young" program (23-26, mostly) and they often turn away older, maybe more polished singers who have "been there done that". Technically, your voice doesn't have to be perfect (hell, mine wasn't), but you still have to be outstanding. They also have a knack for weeding out the divas, as the program is full of kind, supporting singers. If teachers are telling you that "you have what it takes" it would be worth your while to audition there, even if you waited to do the MM program. And while the undergrad program is affordable, the MM program is almost free

--As for your last question, even though they are very busy they do have "trial lessons" with prospective students. The best way to do it is schedule your audition and get the lesson BEFORE, so they recognize you and remember you when you do audition for them. If they like you, you'll have at least one vote in your favor I went down to Cinci twice, once to have a lesson with Bill McGraw and once to audition. If you want a recommendation, he's amazing, but you have to bug him via email (politely) lots before he responds.

Throw me an email if you have any more questions. Hope this helped!

I have not heard great things about CCM of late (but they are all second hand so I don't feel comfortable divulging here).

Instead of having your heart set on one particular school, sit down and create a list of what YOU want to get out of your grad school program. It would be ideal to go to a school that will give you money to go there, to start, as well as putting roles on your resume. I don't need to mention that you should also have a teacher who works for you. A big name is not important. A teacher who gets results is.

Look at smaller programs where you might be a big fish. The only way to learn what it really means to sing is to get on stage and sing - and the only way you are going to do that is if you are in a place where they want you to be on stage.

Good luck. There have been many discussions about grad school programs on this forum. Do a search or two and see what people say.

...I would say that if you still have technical issues to work out, go to Bill McGraw. He has the most solid singers in the school IMHO. The other teachers there are ok, but I wouldn't go just to study with them. I would go there more for the coaching than anything else if it were me. I was in all of the studios at one time or another and listened to MANY lessons, worked with all the coaches, etc. You must know that the opera department there is relatively large, but they do a number of productions a year. If you have a larger voice (and are a soprano) I wouldn't be expecting to get many (if any) roles. The casting tends to be toward the smaller voice, much to the disappointment of many. Enough said. CCM attracts a lot of singers who are basically very good when they arrive and need little work and more coaching than anything. There are, of course, exceptions to this as there are to everything.

I'm wondering now if TremOlo and I know one another...hmmmm.

I will add that I never studied with Bill McGraw, nor did I study voice with any of the other teachers at CCM. Have a lesson with a few as well as talk to the students there and see what you think

She used to be an excellent teacher; I assume she still is but she can't be young anymore. I've met a lot of people who were taught by her and her technique seems to be solid. I understand she's a wonderful person as well. The only negative I've heard is that she's one of those who discourages you from doing auditions until you're "ready," but ready never seems to come fast enough.

...but I would suggest talking to a few students that have studied in the last 5 years or so. Ask how they have changed and how many lessons they got in a quarter and which were made up. All that being said, she is a wonderful person when she is there. There are many extenuating circumstances in the past year or so (by no fault of anyone) which only make the situation more difficult.

Hi! I'm thinking of transferring, and CCM is on my list. Do you have any info already collected on how difficult it is to get in as an undergrad transfer anywhere else? And if you don't mind my asking, which school are you looking to transfer from?

You'll never get a studio full of perfectly talented singers at a university. It's how you deal with it that counts.

I would have killed to study with Pelton. My friends that studied with her would go in with all kinds of technical problems and would come out with all kinds of different solutions. Even if all of her singers weren't perfect it was not from her lack of knowledge. I should have switched when I had the chance.

George Shirley, on the other hand, teaches one technique. It's all about muscle memory. Maybe that works with very advanced singers, but not for young singers with still unstable techniques.

ii

She's a nice lady, didn't have a lot of high-profile students. I honestly don't know what she does.

I studied with her a long time ago... She teaches a lot of the old Margaret Harshaw technique. She had some higher profile singers in the 90s, but I haven't kept up with her lately. (I know of at least 3 of her singers from the 90s who have sung at the Met.) She helped me a great deal for a year or two, but then I started to feel stuck, and moved on. But I think she's basically a good teacher.

I think she is great! She is very good for mezzos and art-songs. And she takes care of her younger students, makes sure you don't get ahead of yourself. I am a soprano but my middle really improved with her.

Carmen Pelton is really great - a seriously wonderful teacher.
I didn;t study with anyone else, so I can't make a judgement.
Good luck!

Carmen is wonderful, beautiful, amazing. That woman knows how to teach. She helped me find my voice.

That's what you should be looking for in undergrad, BTW - a teacher, not a program.

Good luck!

I agree with your statement about not needing to go to a flashy school for your undergrad, but what would have helped me back in the day, was to think about where the best teacher for me would be. Who is going to teach me great technique and help me with my overall package as a performer? My teacher from undergrad thought she taugh me good technique, but really didn't teach it at all. I didn't realize it until I got to grad. school where I had (and still have) an awesome teacher.
In the end: Go to a school with a good teacher... Get a solid foundation... Then you can worry about getting into a grad school that has a great opera program. Hey, if your undergrad has both... Good teacher and great opera program... Then you're set. Just take the time to set a good foundation and you'll be on your way.

I'm at Michigan now and I have to admit the level of teaching is not as high as the small school I did my undergrad in. Just find a teacher that works for you, dispite their reputaion.

But here's my 2 cents. Study with Racine, Pelton, Washington, Serbo or Lusmann. They consistantly have the best students that get roles and go on singing other places.

Verett IS still at UMich, but she's not well, and Shirley will be retireing soon. I'm not sure about Herseth or Sheil, but avoid Peirce!

As a woman, you have a little more to worry about than I do (I'm a tenor and 25) but 21 is YOUNG. I personally had no interest in going straight to grad school when I finished undergrad 2 1/2 years ago. NOIw I'm looking to go to a master's program this year. I am feeling the effects of not having been as diligent about practicing as I wish I could have, but I'm SO glad I didn't waste my time on a premature master's.

My advice to you would be to let it go for a year or towo if you can - do what singing and studying you can and work up your technique to get yourself into the right place and program for you. It's a step you can't retake, and if you were 25 or 27 you might need to hurry into something, but if you can find a way to make ends meet and do some good work, don't push yourself into something too soon or settle for less than you really wnat or deserve.

All of us can tell you what you think and what our experience is, but the bottom line is that you know yourself better than we do. Personally, I think that finishing what you've started and then taking some time off before a grad program is also a very viable idea, but you know yourself well enough to make the decision that you need to make.

If you are a motivated person who is looking to graduate sooner rather than later, then graduating now isn't such a bad idea. The key word here is MOTIVATED. That means continuing at the same or preferably greater level of study that what you are currently doing now in order to prepare yourself and your voice for a grad program with the opportunities to increase your intellectual singing knowledge and to further finesse your package and your resume. This includes regular voice lessons and not letting your day job get in the way of your singing, which can be a problem for some people.

However, if you aren;t concerned about when you graduate and are looking for a challenging music program to finish your degree in, I'd stick with a great university program if money is a problem. They tend to be cheaper than conservatories, and some have quite a bit of money to give. In addition to the schools already mentioned, how about LSU, CU-Boulder, or North Texas? CU, I think, has quite a bit of money behind it, and Boulder isn't a bad place to live. Plus all of these schools have great coaches and teachers. They all have GREAT reputions for producing good undergrads. Obviously, contact everyone you are interested in studying with for a sample lesson before you decide to apply. IMHO It's more important for you right now to fix your voice than to find the best program on the planet, but no one to fix your vocal problems.

Graduate where you are. Move to the city, work, study with who you want. Get your technique in shape and get a taste of what day to day life for a singer is really like (staying in school = prolonging your entry into reality; I know what of I speak as I was in school into my mid-late 20s). If your technique is better a year or two from now, audition then. You'll be in a much better place to compete effectively for those scholarships.

Good luck.

This is great advice! A former mentor figure and friend of mine did something similar when he graduated with his undergrad. He came from a small college with a small program in New York and only really got serious about his singing during his senior year of college. He auditioned at six schools and got into three. One of the schools he didn't get into was Eastman, and although he received a nice chunk of scholarship money to attend some of the other schools, Eastman was where he wanted to go. He contacted the teacher there that he wanted to work with and moved to Rochester to work with the guy for another year and a half before auditioning again and getting in for his masters. Since then, this friend has gone on to be in the YAP at Lyric Opera of Chicago and sing at most of the big houses in the US and Europe.

Bottom line: If CCM is REALLY where you have your heart set on going, contact the teacher you are interested in working with and set up a time to talk to/sing for them. The benefit of doing this are getting to work with your chosen teacher (if they will accept you), and maybe having a history with them will also help when you audition for the school. Plus you get the added "benefit" of a real world education in living the life of a professional singer, which everyone here can attest to, is nothing like what it's like being in school. You'll be able to really see if it's for you before you invest more money into another degree.

Please do NOT studying with George Shirley. I worked with him at a summer program in 2003 and he suggested some, what could have been VERY harmful techniques to my voice if I continued with them. I immediately called my current teacher to ask her about them, and she couldn't believe how bad they were. I did not continue to do them and I feel, saved myself from hurting my chords. Now, I'm not saying he is a horrible teacher, but you should REALLY investigate his teaching style further.
I just graduated from New England Conservatory. (Master's degree) The level of talent in the undergrads is great and the kids are wonderful. They seem VERY prepared for the classical/opera world after leaving. The classes are extensive and you are pushed... in good ways from what it looks like. Some of the teachers I recommend there are Carol Haber, Lauretta Bybee, Dolores Ziegler, and Lorraine Nubar...if she has any openings.
I suggest you continue to look into BU and CCM. Karen Lykes and Barbara Honn teach at CCM and they are phenomenal. Both are fabulous schools. I hope this helps a little. Feel free to e-mail me with any more questions!