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interested (no login)
Posted Oct 30, 2003 1:03 PM
this is a very interesting article that has a lovely quote from the leader of the team prof Bamshad who conducted this experiment. he says that this study could be misused as you are doing on here to shore up white supremicy theories but that it would not be a very good argument. then the article goes on to explain why. sorry to put stuff up from the internet again but it has to be done to show up the holes in your arguments. if the team leader of the writers of the original paper can say this, then where does this leave your argument? the whole article is important but this i think is the most important of all, he says
"Our results should facilitate the deconstruction of racist barriers," said Bamshad. "However, racism is a much more complex issue than simply noting whether there are biological differences between groups of people."
The researchers said their study had simply reinforced abundant historical and archaeological evidence of the linkage between Europeans and Indians.
"It is possible that European migrants who reached India during or after the Indus Valley civilisation, mingled with the local people and eventually established their superiority over land and labour thus forming the higher castes," said B.V. Ravi Prasad, another member of the research team.
"They could have been warriors or traders," he added.
According to the published report, another fact re-established after this research is that India could have been inhabited by two successive migrations in the late Pleistocene period (100,000 years ago).
"It also adds to the growing evidence that the sub-continent of India has been a major corridor for the migration of people between Africa, Western Asia and Southeast Asia,"
so according to bamshad all this study proves is that there are heavy links between indians and europeans, which is what i have been saying all along, and you have been trying to argue against.
checkmate??
malc
taken from http://phi-files.philo.at/pipermail/phi-files/2001-July/000542.html
lower castes like Asians: study (fwd)
Herbert Schmid phi-files@phi-files.philo.at
Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:54:18 +0200 (MEST)
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,
ein Text zur Diskussion.
Vor allem der Satz
"We don't say that caste system is wrong or right. We have only concluded
..."
mit denen sich die Forscher jeder Verantwortung entziehen.
Was ist daran falsch oder dürfen sie das?
Grüße,
Herbert S.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:13:02 +0200
To: vyavahara <vyavaharah@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [vyavaharah] Fw: Upper-caste Indians like Europeans,
lower castes like Asians: study
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: AFP / Palash Kumar <C-afp@clari.net>
Newsgroups: clari.web.world.asia.india,clari.web.world.asia+oceania
Datum: Donnerstag, 05. Juli 2001 16:10
Betreff: Upper-caste Indians like Europeans, lower castes like Asians: study
ClariNet story INDIA-GENETICS from AFP / Palash Kumar
Upper-caste Indians like Europeans, lower castes like Asians: study
Copyright 2001 by Agence France-Presse (via ClariNet) / Thu, 5 Jul 2001 7:10:43 PDT
NEW DELHI, July 5 (AFP) - A team of leading US and Indian genome scientists have stumbled upon a strain of genes common to Europeans and upper-caste Hindus of the Indian subcontinent.
Published in a recent edition of the US-based Genome Research Journal, the pathbreaking research paper concludes that higher-caste Hindus are closer to Europeans, particularly East Europeans, while lower-caste Hindus are more similar to Asians.
Titled "Genetic Evidence on the Origins of Indian Caste Populations," the study was conducted by a joint team of genome researchers and anthropologists from the University of Utah, and Andhra University, India.
The team was headed by Professor Michael Bamshad of the University of Utah.
According to ancient Sanskrit texts, the rigid Indian caste system governing the Hindu population in India is divided into four broad categories: Brahmins (priests), Kshatriyas (warriors), Vaishyas (traders) and Shudras (servants).
The Brahmins, Kshatriyas and Vaishyas are regarded as higher castes as they are considered to be "twice-born" while Shudras belong to the lower caste, born only once.
Five different kind of genetic methods were used by the Indian and American scientists, including DNA sequencing and Y-chromosome analysis.
The research, conducted largely in the south Indian state of Andhra Pradesh, involved collecting blood samples and five plucked scalp hair samples from 265 Telugu-speaking males of different castes.
These samples were then genetically compared in India and the United States to samples taken from 400 other Indians from the tribal and Hindi-speaking population and also to 350 Africans, Asians and Europeans.
"Collectively, all the five datasets show a trend toward upper castes being more similar to Europeans, whereas lower castes are more similar to Asians," said the final report of the joint study.
After a detailed scientific analysis, the experts concluded that the "genetic distance" between Brahmins and Europeans was smaller as compared to the distance between Kshatriyas and Europeans.
On the other hand, the "genetic distance" between Europeans and Shudras (the lower caste) was far greater.
The research team has moved swiftly to pre-empt any attempt to use their findings as a means of shoring up the caste system.
"These caste divisions were man-made," said anthropologist Bhaskara B. Rao who was a member of the team.
"We don't say that caste system is wrong or right. We have only concluded the genetic affinities between the Europeans and upper-caste Indians."
Team leader Bamshad said any sort of research data had "the potential" to be misused.
"Could this research be used to support notions of superiority? It could, but it would not a very good argument," Bamshad said.
Caste tensions are still a source of violent clashes in India, particularly in the northern states of Bihar and Uttar Pradesh.
Brahmins continue to dominate the upper echelons of society and the issue of caste plays a crucial role in the world of politics, with lower castes representing a huge vote bank.
"Our results should facilitate the deconstruction of racist barriers," said Bamshad. "However, racism is a much more complex issue than simply noting whether there are biological differences between groups of people."
The researchers said their study had simply reinforced abundant historical and archaeological evidence of the linkage between Europeans and Indians.
"It is possible that European migrants who reached India during or after the Indus Valley civilisation, mingled with the local people and eventually established their superiority over land and labour thus forming the higher castes," said B.V. Ravi Prasad, another member of the research team.
"They could have been warriors or traders," he added.
According to the published report, another fact re-established after this research is that India could have been inhabited by two successive migrations in the late Pleistocene period (100,000 years ago).
"It also adds to the growing evidence that the sub-continent of India has been a major corridor for the migration of people between Africa, Western Asia and Southeast Asia," the report said.
Prasad said the study would not only shed light on the origins of the caste system, but "also help us understand why some diseases are peculiar to Indians as well as Europeans".
According to Bamshad, the next step will be to try and understand the origins of the populations that have migrated to and from India, "and to find what model of demographic history is most consistent with our results".
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