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    • crawfish
      Posted Feb 16, 2007 6:49 AM

      We are told to Sing, plain and simple, in the New Testament in reference to the worship service. The verse does

      not leave anything open to debate.


      I agree, except in the fact that the Bible doesn't limit singing to corporate worship.


      By your theory, since the Bible doesn't teach against using hamburgers and cola for the communion, I guess it

      would be ok to use those items. The Bible doesn't say we can't!!


      Interestingly enough, it also doesn't tell us to use crackers and grape juice. I imagine any member of the first century

      church would be mightily confused by our current practice of the Lord's Supper. It doesn't make us wrong, because our

      intent is to respect our Lord by following his scripture in our hearts.

      "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these

      things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:" Revelation 22: 18

      By introducing instrumental music into the worship service you are adding a concept to the Bible that does NOT exist. I

      hope you enjoy your plagues. Rick Warren and the other "changlings" may say it is ok and make all sorts of excuses and

      interpret different verses to justify it, but in the end, those that support their ideas will find that their names have

      been removed from the Book of Life.


      Nobody is saying that instruments are law. They are simply a method used to connect with today's people in a way that

      is culturally relevant. There was a good reason for the restoration churches to refuse to use them; there was a good

      reason for many early churches to avoid their use. That is cultural relevancy. Even in the traditional CofC's, we have

      added elements of cultural relevancy that are not addressed in the bible - church buildings, fellowship centers,

      songbooks, four-part harmonies. Why are some unaddressed items wrong and others ok?


      According to historians, the church did not use instruments of music for several hundred years after the time of

      the apostles. In fact, the first known instrument of music to be brought into the church was one which the emperor of

      France gave to Pope Vitalian of the Roman Catholic Church in the seventh century. This was several hundred years after

      the New Testament was written.


      This is according to historians of the far past. You (and the author) might want to update your references.

      It's true that many early churches did not. This was due to many factors. One, instruments were not used among "common

      folk" widely like they are today. Two, many, if not most, churches in the first 3-4 centuries were covert in nature

      because of outward persecution and avoided overt symbols of their faith. Third, many pagan rituals involved the use of

      instruments, and the converts from those religions wanted to separate themselves from their prior paganism. This last

      is very simliar to the "meat sacrificed to idols" issue mentioned in 1 Cor 8. Note that among these reasons there is NO

      documentation that the early church thought the use of instruments is sinful. Those assertions didn't arise until more

      than a millenia later.


      Please note too the expressions “speaking to yourselves,” and “teaching and admonishing one another.” These

      statements show reciprocal action. This is action that we do to one another at the same time. It means that each member

      of the congregation joins in the singing. By doing so, he teaches and encourages his fellow Christians. At the same

      time, they are teaching and encouraging him by their singing. This shows that every Christian must participate in the

      singing as best he can. There is no authority in the New Testament for only one person to sing, or even a group to sing

      to the rest of the congregation. God’s will is that every Christian should sing and by doing this teach and encourage

      every other Christian. Special singing groups are an unauthorized addition to the pattern of worship given in the New

      Testament. Therefore, those who use them are sinning.


      The term "reciprocal action" is a slipperly slope. Sermons are definitely not reciprocal. Song leaders themselves are

      not authorized by the Bible...neither is the use of songbooks or overheads.

      Here is my big problem with the traditional arguments: the verses used, when taken in context, almost always refer to

      lifestyle practices rather than specific worship practices. We have tended to compartmentalize the Word of God

      into three times a week by defining "five acts of worship", rather than defining "worship" as a way to live our entire

      lives, which is the true meaning. We want to itemize the items we must do to achieve salvation; but this is fallacy, as

      there is NOTHING we can do to achieve salvation. We achieve salvation through God's grace, nothing more. We obey God's

      commands as a means of accepting His grace, but without the proper heart those actions are meaningless.

      What this also does is to deny the power of cultural differences. Church is practiced differently in different cultures

      around the world - any missionary will tell you this. Our culture is also changing. Rapidly. We must always be

      "change agents", altering what we do WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE BIBLE to reach lost souls. Change is a fact of life we

      simply have to deal with. If we stay the same, then as the culture that defines us dies out we will die out as well.

      I will begin at the ending because THIS IS the meaning of Wicca or "navigating the winds of change." Otherwise,

      Rick's agenda would have been OUTED (by God I am convinced) a decade ago because THAT was the Purpose Driven

      Cultism


      Ken, your post is too long to respond to in full, but some brief responses are below.

      1) Change in itself is NOT wrong. Gradualism is not wrong. It's the destination that defines right or wrong. It is a

      difficult thing to change how a church operates, negotiating change needed to reach the modern culture while not

      offending those steeped in non-Biblical traditions. Change is simply a fact of life; rapid cultural change is a fact of

      life in our modern world. We must adapt or die. (And I'm referring to the CofC, not Christ's church in general.)

      2) You assume I'm simply a drone following the lead of the Ricks. This is simply not true. I am someone who thrives of

      the challenges to my faith; they cause me to study deeply to know for myself their truth or falseness. I agree with

      perhaps 3/4 of what Warren says theologically, although I think his giving marks him as a man with remarkable faith and

      priorities. I tend to agree, eventually, with Atchley about 90% of the time. Nothing I disagree with either man is

      what I would consider a "salvation issue". I thoroughly believe that God is using Atchley as part of the effort to take

      the CofC and its strengths - Biblical knowledge and faithfulness - into a cultural relevancy to help His kingdom grow.

      Warren himself is a shining example of a person who denies our cultural materialism for the kingdom of God. I certainly

      don't need to agree with people 100% theologically to admire them.

      3) Your arguments, even for their length, fall short if the basic thesis - "the use of musical instruments is against

      God's will" - is wrong. The truth is, you worry so much about issues that don't really matter one way or another that

      you're missing the key elements of God's Word.

      p.s. I understand that this is just an internet message board, and very few people have changed their minds based on

      reading someone else's post. I view this as a "sharpening of the sword", even if I don't expect to change your mind,

      and I thank you for the opportunity to post here.

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