1. If deaconnesses are "Bibical", then someone please tell me why (with BIBICAL scripture, not your own opinion please) 1 Timothy 3 (read the entire chapter, please) speaks only of "husbands, men of one wife, etc."
I don't want opinions, I want facts -- exactly like the facts that I took directly from my Bible in 1 Timothy. I have searched on the Internet and found NINE different versions of the Bible and not one of them mention anything about women. I want Bible quotes, not opinion.
2. If it is true based on 1 Timothy that the Holy Bible is being misquoted and misinterpreted to fit "modern day" standards of political correctness, WHY ON EARTH ARE THOSE WHO REFUSE TO HAVE GOD'S WORD ADULTERATED BRANDED AS DIVISIVE AND WRONG????
3. WHY IS THE RHCC ELDERS' INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURE CONSIDERED THE LAST WORD WHEN IT IS OBVIOUS TO ME THAT THE SCRIPTURE CONTRADICTS THE RHCC ELDERS' OPINIONS?
4. Why should I take some men's interpretations of the scripture when I can fully read for myself that they are WRONG???? Read 1 Timothy again and give me pure Bibical justification for calling me divisive and evil when I am simply believing that the Bible is literally true? Are we going to throw out other passages of the Bible or misinterpret them for our own use? How about the Ten Commandments? Are we going to twist them to suit 21st century lowered moral and ethical standards?
Catholics believe that one must rely on mortal men to interpret the scriptures for them and intercede on their behalf. Isn't this what we are doing here?
How about instead, those who want to falsify the teachings of the Bible leave and find a church that believes that God's word must be politically correct?
It seems to me that the divisive force here are the ones that are trying to change God's word... not those who are trying to preserve it.
I will be waiting for responses from those who can quote me scriptures, not insults.
I can certainly understand wanting to see the scriptural basis for the decision. I feel quite sure that any one of the elders would be glad to study with you and show you the scriptural basis. Here's a start:
In 1 Timothy 3, read verse 11. Right there in the middle of describing deacon qualifications, it lists qualifications for women. Although some versions translated this to say "wives" the actual greek term was the term for women. Most scholars of the Bible now are in agreement that this means qualifications for women deacons (deacon, when translated from Greek to English, is servant, hence the name "special servant").
In addition, in Romans chapter 16, Paul himself refers to Phoebe (a women) with the same greek term (deacon/servant) as he does the men who are listed as deacons in various churches.
I hope this helps, and I hope that for further study you will ask the elders of RHCC to talk to you about their scriptural basis rather than going around them through web sites such as this one.
This message has been edited by KevinHamm from IP address 205.172.62.1 on Mar 27, 2002 1:11 PM
I was half wrong. One of them did respond quickly, but I was only half wrong. So I got out my KJV sword, and found I got the twisted scriptures part right. I Tim 3:11 is in the middle of the qualifications of a male deacon. Not only is he to be graved but his wife also. I Tim 3:12 now I know you Texans see and do things alittle different but surely you don't se'em like those Californians? How is a woman a Husband of one wife?
I thought it might be the NIV that caused this twisting, but it's not. This just plain in your face scripture twisting. Of coarse if the catholics had their way we would not have our Bibles to check up on them. So giv'em NIV's
Dear Sir,
I feel your message is littered with hatred for people who do not see things your way. It saddens me that someone could be filled with such disdain for other Christians. I don't think the point is how we each interpret the scripture but rather if we go about our disagreeing in a loving manner. Sir, I see no love in what you have done and that hurts my heart. I don't understand why you want to hurt people and divide a church. Why is serving Christ such a difficult thing? What are the eternal consequences of having women serve in our congregation? Did not women teach you as a young child and help form your first thoughts and ideas about Christianity? Have you ever told your own mother that you would not want her to serve in a church? Have you ever attended Richland Hills Church of Christ? Sir, I believe that you have allowed Satan to harden your heart and please know that I will honestly pray for you. I love you, I don't agree with you, but I love you because Christ came to earth and died for me and for you. That is what allows me to look beyond your comments and see a creature that God created and God loves. You are His child as am I - so as brother and sister I beg you to stop this campaign of division and rather work towards advancing the kingdom of heaven.
What was that noise? Oh just another insult bouncing off. I've been in trails to long and am to harden for such small caliber insults. I will not stop trying to pull my Brothers and Sisters out of the mouths of the reavenish wolves. I'm tried of watching hireling beat my Bro and Sis and leading them away from God. Is that what you want me to stop doing? It must be because the division is coming from with in. Strike the Shepherd and the sheep will scatter.
Read the post "Very Good"
You can bounce off the insults, but not the prayer that I heap on you in the name of our Lord and Savior. I am praying for your soul. I ask all other Christians (i.e. Christ follower) to pray for the souls of those who do not show love.
I shall not be back to this sight again as I am unable to see Peace in a lot of the actions here.
Sorry to hear you have chosen to turn your back on truth, but it is your option. There are times I wish God had not given me free will, I too have made some bad choices in the past. Thank you for praying for me. Please ask that the Holy Spirit will continue to give me the strenght to fight the good fight and the wisdom and knowledge to counter the lies Satan and his lynchmen come at me with.
Paul lists the qualifications for elders, LIKEWISE deacons and LIKEWISE their wives. The word for deacon is diakonos but the word for wives is gune. Even the gender-neutered NIV translates honestly with the word "wives are to be women worthy." Only in a footnote does it dare hint at the word "deaconess."
If "deacons and then LIKEWISE their wives" means that GUNE really means DEACONS then why doesn't "elders and LIKEWISE deacons" mean that the DIAKONOS really means EPISKOPOS?
We can know what "scholars" believe by seeing that the word is not translated deaconess. Most scholars ASSUREDLY ARE NOT in agreement that GUNE really means DIAKONOS. Phoebe, like Lydia was defined as a business woman who had faithfully served a church just as all faithful members also minister. However, Phoebe is defined by the word "patroness" which was an official of the Greek government to aid, transport, feed, house and find jobs for strangers.
We have looked at the Scriptural Basis used by the elders here and submit that they don't stand up:
We have added a Catholic article on Canon law which propels some churches of Christ to add deaconesses. The conclusion is that there is no Biblical or historical authority for the deaconess. However, the feminists are using the Law of Silence by saying: "No one says 'thou shalt not ordain deaconesses." However, we can show you many proofs that history says just that.
All believers are servants and to make women into a clergy role is divisive. Diakonos just means servant or slave or a totally sacrificial person like Jesus.
The word SPECIAL is the fem. form of:
Egemoneuo (h2230) hayg-em-on-yoo'-o; from 2232; to act as ruler: - be governor.
Egeomai (g2233) hayg-eh'-om-ahee; mid. of a (presumed) strengthened form of 71; to lead, i.e. command (with official authority); fig. to deem, i.e. consider: - account, (be) chief, count, esteem, governor, judge, have the rule over, suppose, think.
The word for AUTHORITY Paul uses is the Greek AUTHENTIA which means sexual authority exercised by any non-silent (including non-sedentary) women presiding or a part of a pastoral "praise team."
Therefore, 'woman' + 'special' means violating the explicit Word of God: and no doctor of the law can deny that without needing to turn his "sheep skin" back in.
By fabricating a Tower of Babel "ministry pyramid" the intention is that the "special servants" are really to be RULERS OVER a fraction of the work which belongs to the elders who, if the pattern works, will soon find themselves replaced by female "special shepherdesses."
"...I hope that for further study you will ask the elders of RHCC to talk to you about their scriptural basis rather than going around them through web sites such as this one."
It sounds rather like the admonishment I received from one of the elders at my church who, ironically, is a professor at Abilene Christian University (ACU.EDU).
Again, Welcome to the fight. Well if your going to wait for these that are blinded with lust and selfishness to respond with scripture you will be waiting a lllloooonnnngggg time, and when they do respond with scriptures it won't be worth the wait. Nothing like twisted scripture to make your day. Here I've give you a copy of my Madison post, maybe it will help you endure. Love ya Brother! One other thing Get ya'self a real sword "KJV ONLY WHOO'RYAh" sp? you know, what them Marines alway say.
Dear Brother Jim Wade:
Thank you for your words of encouragement and prayers, I need both. It does break my heart to see the Shepherds fulfilling prophecy (Zechariah 10,11,12) but the good news is it means that the day of His visitation in near. The apostasy of the Church, is in the whole Church not just Madison. It is just Madison is big, it is more visible, and draws a lot of attention, but by no means is this a Madison problem alone. For people to point their finger at Madison, to hiss or pity and not look at themselves or their congregations is a shame, it is sinful, but most of all I think it is stupid. Experience is the best teacher, but learning from others experience is better (a lot less painful). There are many other signs, that Jesus and His Word told us to watch for before He comes again, that are in place or are about to take place. This is good news but it also a very dangerous time. One would be wise to look at the history of God’s people to see the consequences of not testing oneself against the Word, and subjecting to it. Like I said, “It does break my heart” to see the Shepherd treat God and His sheep like they do. But, as I cry out against it, I find it is not only the Shepherds that have deaf ears it is also the lazy, lustful, selfish sheep. Sometimes the only conciliation I have is Zechariah 9.
One other thing to keep in mind. When God picks a man to do a work for him, it seem God goes for the dregs of society, the failures, the most unlikely, and unskilled for the job. Of which I am. To examine my life and see all the scares, it would be very easy to discount my warnings, but please don’t. Take what I say and test it. Examine it, hold it up to scriptures and see if what I say is true, but please do not just let it bounce off. We are living the days of the end of age and if we do not watch, we will be caught naked and ashamed. Thank you LORD Jesus for standing between me and the Father so He can not see me for what I am. Thank you for choosing me for a bride transferring me from the seed of Adam to become a Child of God. I am worth only because of what you have done. Forgive me for my sins and give me your Grace, for I am nothing without You, so that I am able to hear “Well done my good and faithful servant”.
35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Very good. Try these also
Joh 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 15:10 - If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Does this mean God/Jesus’ love is conditional? yeaaaah!
Well this shines a bright light on scripture twisting
Oh there’s another
II Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Oh, oh, there’s another
II Thess 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Oh, oh, oh, another one
Isaiah 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not. 5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.
May goodness they're every where:
I Timothy 4:1 Proverbs 1:24-33 Isaiah 65:11-16 Jeremiah 7:11-16 Matthew 24:24.
Boy I glad I don’t twist scripture to meet my own lust.
Would you be brave enough to say where you attend church? Your tone and your attitude are very sarcastic and demeaning. Is this the approach you use to bring others to the Lord? Are we not to lead others by example? I never recall Jesus bringing others to God with an " I told you so" attitude, and he certainly had more of a right to do so than you do. I am not sure what it is you hope to accomplish by your numerous messages....but it doesnt appear you have your heart in the right place. If you really want to stand by your convictions, and stand up for the Lord, please state where you attend church and please show up in person to discuss your concerns with those who are causing you the concern. That is scriptural. Last time I checked, spreading gossip and slander behind people's backs, and
approaching others with a hateful spirit and judgemental attitude is not scriptural. If you really hope to accomplish something.....go meet directly with the elders and express your concerns with a spirit of love and genuine concern. I hope God does not respond to you in the way you are responding to your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.
Actually Joe has every right to be upset. When we don't take God and His word seriously, when we contort it to fit our personal interests, we anger God also. We have examples of Christ anger...remember the temple? Anger is not a sin in itself. Why is everyone so afraid to abide by scripture in the year 2002??? Where is our respect for God. The Bible was written for our spiritual health. Allowing "Christians" to follow their own will rather than the Bible tells God you don't love them.
What does the Bible say about Stupid Arguments?...
November 7 2002, 10:42 AM
I have been praying, hard. I have people that I love greatly - pulled away from my once tight circle of friends at RHCC over this matter, and I'll tell you what... It is not right! None of you are right. Do not bother replying to me for this is my only input on the matter...
2 Timothy 2:24
23 Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels.
24 And the Lord’s servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.
25 Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,
26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
What it sounds like to me is quarreling! So it must be a STUPID ARGUMENT. I do not sense gentle instruction going on in all this mess except from the Elders of RHCC.
Are you perfect in worshiping Jesus? No. None are perfect. It only follows that just as we stumble and get back up, so too will a church stumble and get back up. Satan is the accuser. Jesus in the forgiver. Let us please turn our hearts to forgiveness and gentle instruction to help build up the Body of Christ instead of this self seeking vindication.
Rob, any DIALOG about the Word of God is not STUPID ARGUMENTS. Don't ever fall sucker for the leadership's claim to sole authority or believe that you don't have a Christ-Demanded responsibility to test leadership by the direct command of Paul:
He must "teach the Word as it has been taught." Now the Word as it HAS been taught would condemn a DOMINANT PASTOR for firing the DEACONS who have the same teaching responsibility as the Elders. The "pastor" has no authority and you should refuse to give a penny to one who perverts the Word and refused to Go and evangelize. Sermonizing guarantees that you will NEVER hear the statement about false arguments. Look at the context:
It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 2 Tim 2:11
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 2 Tim 2:12
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 2 Tim 2:13
Which of those words would you not defend?
> Of these things put them in remembrance (words, words),
> charging (to attest or protest earnestly) them before the Lord
> that they strive (trifle) not about words to NO PROFIT, but to the subverting of the hearers. 2 Tim 2:14
If we take the words of Jesus which He defined as Spirit and Life and make them something different or not important we are trifling with His Words.
We have divine permission to trifle with the words of men.
No profit is like sexual intercourse as an occupation:
Chresimos (g5539) khray'-see-mos; from 5540; serviceable: - profit.
Chresis (g5540) khray'-sis; from 5530; employment, i.e. (spec.) sexual intercourse (as an occupation of the body): - use.
Subverting words are progressive words going beyond what is written:
Datastrophe (g2692) kat-as-trof-ay'; from 2690 an overturn ("catastrophe"), i.e. demolition; fig. apostasy: - overthrow, subverting.
Elders who proclaim that they can PROVE the correctness of instrumental music may have a Phd and may be a professor but he has 100% of the Bible and history against him. That is why those who GO BEYOND THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN spit in the face of Jesus. And "musical worship teams" who stand in the Holy Place proclaiming to MEDIATE worship and the presence of God are the prophesied end-time abomination of desolation who, in Rev. 18, are the musicians of the Babylon Whore who is Lucifer or Zoe.
Don't dare to tell people who have had their total RELIGION wrestled out from under them that they are as guilty as the ones who stole the peace Jesus died to make possible by "firing the doctors of the Law who take away the key to knowledge."
Well this shines a bright light on scripture twisting
July 13 2006, 12:00 PM
Speak of the devil.. BOO!!! Aren't you guilty of doing the very same thing you accused someone else of doing???
"Very good. Try these also
Joh 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 15:10 - If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Does this mean God/Jesus’ love is conditional? yeaaaah!
Well this shines a bright light on scripture twisting"
Actually, I believe the Bible teaches that God's love for us is unconditional.. for while we were yet sinners Christ died for us... our abiding with Him is the conditional aspect of that verse, not His love us...
Just want to say that a number of people have discussed this with the elders and the only response from them is that the decision is made and the matter is closed they won't discuss it. I believe you are exactly right about it . Please pull up everything on this you can as this is a vast movement and involves many subjects such as baptism,music,etc. It is an effort to make churches over the nation a "Community Church"
Mr. BOBO. I saw that your name was on the "Theses" that was placed on the RHCC doors. WOW! What a wonderful, loving thing to do. "They won't listen to us, so we'll just EMBARASS 'EM" That is just GREAT. I am sure you are very proud of yourself, feeling like you have "gotten one over on 'em". I don't think so. What you have done is an embarassment to you and to Christ. You are the one who should be reprimanded for your childish actions. I liken it to egging someone's house. Only signed your name to it.
According to another one of your posts, no one saw the theses anyway, right?
According to you, Jeff:
"This is a SICK, last gasp effort. Do the people that posted this actually think something like this will work? Hogwash, I say! It will only serve to alienate and further CAUSE discord. And, yes it causes discord. THere is NO OTHER way to look at it.
And, I am sure that no one saw them anyway. I am sure that the first person to the church took them all down and threw them in the trash where they belong. I am not even a member there and if I were to come to RHCC and see that, I would have taken them down and put this trash where it belongs."
Is this your approach to everything, Jeff? Ignore the truth?
1 Thes 5:21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."
1 John 4:1 "believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
Matthew 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."
Matthew 24:4 "Take heed that no man deceive you."
Acts 17:11 "search the scriptures daily, whether those things were so"
Phil 1:10 "approve things that are excellent"
2 Tim 2:15-16 "rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings"
Jude 3 "earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints"
2 Tim 4:2-3 "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
Kevin. I am not angry. I just posted what I thought. There was no malice in my thoughts. The act of posting these "theses" was a SICK, last gasp effort in my opinion.
And, it is nothing short of vandelism IN MY OPINION. If the people involved want change, then do it in the correct, LOVING manner. If they are not getting the response they want, then move on with your life. Don't embarass yourself and Christ by posting these things.
Do you actually think that this "theses poosting" will change anything? You are naive if you think so. It is only going to further division and make the people that did it look dumb.
Anyway....that is my opinion on the matter. The way to get "the truth" out as you call it is to dialog, and if that fails, then go about your business, shake the dust off of your feet and go on.
I appreciate your past communications with me. There is anger. Jeff, I view your remarks as an expression of anger--I hope that I am wrong.
Today, I received a very harsh and, to me, hateful response to the 25 Thesis.
Let me quickly make this affirmation: I am not nor have ever been angry at the RHCC elders or any of the ministers on staff. I confirm my love and respect for them. Personally, I have always appreciated the dept of study and prepartation Rick puts into his messages.
Some get angry and leave. Others care and love enough to speak of their concerns. The letter that I received today classifed those who have permitted their names to be used on this petition as having hatred and bitterness toward the elders and Rick.
Sir, if you read this discussion, please do not communicate with me further. Your reference to to my being in a military organization and being tried for treason and court marshaled for giving comfort to the enemy is gives direct evidence that you really do not know me as a person. I have nothing in common with the Talaban.
The one trueism that I find to be a constant fact is that those of a more liberal tendency usually are less flexiable than those of a more conservative nature.
Peace, grace and love are tested in conflict. However, it is in disagreement that we find if our hearts are of peace, grace and love.
You are correct Jeff. This infighting amongst the CofC is sad. While the numbers in the CofC dwindle weekly, they continue to fight over such petty non-salvation issues. While a lost world goes to hell, they can't even get along among themselves. It's no wonder so many lost people will never step foot in a church. Why go somewhere to experience fighting amongst it's members? Grow up church. While the world goes to hell, you spend all your time fighting over whether a woman can serve communion, pray, or preach. I think God is saddened by your childish behavior.
C
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 65.80.180.74 on Jan 1, 2003 7:04 PM
If you want scripture for your heart, then take heart with Matthew 18.
If you have an issue with someone, don't talk behind their back but approach him/them.
If you are not willing to do that and you are unwilling to follow the elders then you should leave the church and find somewhere else to go so as not to cause division within the church.
Thanks, Brian
Nowhere, absolutely nowhere do the New Testament passages suggest that one just merely leave.
If just merely "leaving" had been the answer, then that would have shown no concern, love or respect.
Still remains odd to me that those who continue to practice New Testament Christianity are labeled divisive.
Speaking only for myself, I have continually expressed love and respect.
The placing of a labels, such as "divisive" is can be an insult of intellectual honest, and at best is just pure lazy.
Again, personally, I am nearing the point of needing to let this thing go. I wrote a letter to the elders at RHCC soon after they made the deacon/deaconess change. It was over a month before I heard back from them.
Other than my continued close friendship with J.A. Davis, there was really never any effort to heal the emotions suffered by my family from the leadership at RHCC. We were sheep under their care.
We are so very happy were we currently worship. I do not intent to carry this over into my new church family. That being said, I will continue to be very concerned about the direction of many of our congregations. Very frankly, I believe that another major split has already occurred in churches of Christ.
But, I am reassured by one fact, and that is the pure and simply truth that the “gates of hell” will never overcome the Lord’s true church.
I am a Christian at a small congregation in Arizona, who got caught up in all this talk of "updating", and "entertaining," with reference to getting the women more involved, up to and including "deaconesses."
At first, the concept appealed to me. Then I read some stuff on the Internet about the Community Church Movement, a plague that is spreading through the nation's churches. I realized that what they proposed was exactly what I had been led to believe was plausible. After speaking with many of our elder men, reading comentaries, and a lot of prayer, I realized that I was on the brink of becoming an integral part of a very dangerous movement.
Now, instead of pushing for "change," I try to persuade members to look carefully at the scriptures concerning the different topics of the above movement, and base their decision on God's Word, not that of someone trying tp use God to play a numbers game.
Amen--I agree with you--let's all speak in love and with an open Bible--emotions and opinions aside. If we cannot speak about Bible things with the Bible--why say anything, why follow someone else's idea? Why accept any teaching as from God before one does their own Biblical research? Why?
Matthew 22:37-39
37 Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
I'm afraid Mr. ACU.EDU is representing his university well. The passage in I Timothy 3:11 is not digressing from men deacon to woment deacons. It is describing the fact that deacons must have proved that they can be the spritual leader of their households before they can be in a leadership position such as that of a deacon. It is not giving qualifications for women deacons.
This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!
...........................THE BOOK
What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?
There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.
This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison
Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource
references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least
you will recognize the signs early on.
Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't
know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.
Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was
one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.
It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of
it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word
of Jesus Christ.
At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority
of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly
realm.
They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and
to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.
The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan.
Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books,
seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change
so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....
At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to
be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched
through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the
"Community Church Movement"
Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready,
or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the
plans very nature, it had to be secret.
The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was
never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last
15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.
The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the
elders went along unwittingly.
This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell
something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill
in some of the timeline.
To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the
background materials in the first of the book.
This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be
printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our
web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison
Here is the list of players;
5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten
commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)