A very good friend of mine observed while attending a funeral that there was no power point presentation. Also, while there was congregational singing and many newer (handclapping) songs were sung, there was no handclapping.

My question (and his) is this: Do we show more reverence for mortal man than we do for Jesus Christ who died for us and has risen again? Should we not show the same reverence in our worship of Him as we do in our funeral services for mortal men?

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Dear Sir,
Would you clap if you watched your son, wife or friend die? Most certainly not. But we do not go to church to mourn a Savior who is dead but rather to praise and worship One that has risen!! I will clap and raise my hands to a God who has defeated death, because it is not a funeral that brings us together but one of the greatest joy that I cannot contain my undying thankfulness and devotion.
For if we were silent then even the rocks would cry out. Church should not be a place of saddness but joy and hope. You do not have to raise your hands, you do not have to clap, you do not have to say "Amen" - these things are not required. But do not stand in judgement of those who do worship like this. David danced almost naked in the streets of Jerusalem, Miriam played her tambourine, please look at these verses in the KJV.
I Chronicles 5:13; Acts 3:8

Clapping was the universal way of showing contempt: when the trees "clapped their hands" it was because God had taken the "fellers" (and fellerettes) into captivity so that they didn't get cut down.

The Lord's Supper is not to remember the resurrection but the Death of Christ where He paid the price.

Praise is "a story lauding God for what He has done." You can betcha that when Paul rejoiced in his afflictions he was not doing the effeminat hand clapping routine. And the people were not praising the "praise team."

Luke 19:38 Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.

Paul instructed the Roman church (ch 15) to repeat "that which is written" and to the Ephesians the inspired Biblical text or Word of Christ in Colossians. Since the praise team is standing in the holy place and people are praising their human compositions the church is "holding its peace" and the stones will cry out against you: yea, even the stones of the mega-temples which God delights in dismantling.

Worship is solely, uniquely, totally, absolutely "in the spirit" which is in the human mind: the only "worship" Paul spoke of other than falling on the face is to "give heed" to the Word of Christ and worship and prayer is 100% "in the spirit." That does not mean enthusiastic or "enthus o mania" or out of your mind: that means that worship is in your own spirit. Those who are clapping their hands ARE NOT worshiping God but stroking their nerve endings and Scripture and medical science keeps that from being "judgmental.

And while you allow yourself the right to clap or body drum in the face of others who MUST REMAIN SILENT under the VIOLENT threat of "you are being judgmental," you absolutely DEPRIVE them of any hope of worshiping IN SPIRIT or in the mind as they give heed to CHRIST'S WORDS rather than that of theatrical preaching or singing. There is no music word used of the worship of a Spirit God in the entire Bible. Blame the preacher if you missed out on that one.

Judging is not "testing the spirits" but "executing sentence" on people: BODY WORSHIP executes the sentence of the "children piping trying to get Jesus to sing and dance" upon those who have matured spiritually (mentally). You have 167 additional hours to sing, dance, sing your own inspired Scripture, rise up to play with the naked David as he REMOVED the Ark of the Covenant from God's meeting place in Gibeon because he was too fearful of ever returning to seek God again. David, was a human king to replace God and god said:"I gave you kings (preachers) in my anger and I took them away in my anger." The kings were especially chosen by God to carry out the final judgment imposed when Israel rose up to play in musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. That play which defines David's naked dance was "singing, dancing, playing instruments, hand clapping" and otherwise becoming perverse. David's praise while seeking or trying to awaken his harps so that they could awaken God, is the word HALAL which means to "make yourself vile, vulgar or pretend to be mad" in the hope that God would not punish the insane: the charismatic schizophrenia of which music and hand clapping is a MARK. The word translated "Lucifer" is derived from what David did as "praise."

Kenneth Sublett

Where does one learn to clap and raise hands? If it were an honest (therefore truthful) response of joy and praise, would it be in unison with others?

No one ever taught me where I was supposed to clap during a song. It's not indicated in the Hymnal. Where did you learn to clap like that?

It is obviously orchestrated by someone and they never let me or anyone I know in on the gimmick.

Who decided where to clap? Is it an effort to make us feel uncomfortable so we'll leave? If so, is that a christian attitude?

We're not blind, sir or madam. We can see what is going on even though we are not invited to the handclapping meetings and don't know the secret handshake.

We are going to expose this for what it is. We are going to tell anyone who will listen and we will have done what is required of us.

May God be merciful with your soul.

Kevin

Lucifer is bisexual and was in the garden of Eden with his musical instruments. In his female incarnation he is Sophia/Zoe (serpent/beast) or the 'female instructing principle" of the Ancient Near East and Greek (Texas) Gnosticism. He is the "harp playing prostitute" king/queen who wanted to be "remembered as a male."

In Amos, he is Remphan or Chiun and the musical/sexual festivals were the "marzeah" which was "a feast with and for dead ancestors." In Jerusalem he was Molech who spoke to the priests when they burned babies in his red hot arms "to the beat of musical instruments." In short, making the funeral rituals into "worship" rituals is as old as rocks and is evil as Satan.

There are "lords many and gods many" so what may not be "lawful" to you may be just the sexual feeling needed by those celebrating their own funeral.

In Chapter Ten Tertullian De Spectaculis noted:

"They resemble each other also in their pomp, having the same procession to the scene of their display from temples and altars, and that mournful profusion of incense and blood,

with MUSIC of PIPES and TRUMPETS,
all under the direction of the SOOTHSAYER and the undertaker,

those two foul masters of funeral rites and sacrifices."

"How many guilds (LEVITICAL TEAMS), how many priesthoods, how many offices are set astir, is known to the inhabitants of the great city in which the demon convention has its headquarters." [Nashville is a City Set on Seven Hills: it even has its own Parthenon and where the Jubilee denies the Atonement]

See http://www.piney/com/WinTertDeSpec.html for the original document.

In that day," says the sovereign Lord, "I will make the sun set at noon, and make the earth dark in the middle of the day. Amos 8:9NEB

I will turn your festivals into funerals, and all your songs into funeral dirges. I will make everyone wear funeral clothes and cause every head to be shaved bald. I will make you mourn as if you had lost your only son; when it ends it will indeed have been a bitter day. Amos 8:10 NEB

Indeed, Kevin, those who will sing or chant or hum DURING THE LORD'S SUPPER when I am trying to find the "leaven" in my own heart in ABSOLUTE SILENCE would assuredly have done the same thing while Jesus was dying on the cross: that is the Judas principle (his thief's bag was for CARRYING THE MOUTH PIECES OF WIND INSTRUMENTS.)

Here is the picture of any group presuming to be a Praise Team: Trying to Triumph over Christ whose MARK is His Word.

http://www.piney.com/MuJesTri.html

Yeah! Even the harps in Revelation are FOR THE DEAD (virgins) while the message to the LIVING is "preach the gospel." Yes, they are embalming an already dead body to make it smell and look alive.

Kenneth Subett

You are a sick individual who can twist any words into your own thoughts. How dare you say that because people humm or sing during the Lord's Supper that they are being irrevrant. You are not judge or jury in anyones salvation case. You are a mere mortal with human understandings and only human knowledge. Instuments have been used for worship for thousands of years in the church. You sir are looking for a way to sow discord and may the Lord heap what you sow upon your head.
How dare you say that having multiple worship leaders will lead to our own damnation. Where in the Bible does it say we should have even one song leader? Just because things are not done your way doesn't mean they are wrong. The world doesn't revolve around the thoughts and opinions of Kenneth Sublette and his opinion of relegion, Christianity, or his interpretation of the Bible. You need something else to do with your time, how wasteful that you sit in front of a computer all day long just to rebutt what anyone has to say on this sight. Shame on me and shame on all those who believe that by engaging in an e-mail war we can solve anything.

Or one of the names of the Apostles? No it is Kenneth Sublett, but he is learning why was that the common religious folks killed them. They were only trying to get people to do it God's way, and religious folks get mad.

I'm sure as a Bible Scholar you know the scripture and verse so I won't bother to look it up, but JESUS CALLED THEM VIPERS-THOSE PHARISEES AND SEDUCEES AND THEY WERE RELIGIOUS FOLKS WHO THOUGHT THEY KNEW IT ALL!!

Oh SueT, I just couldn't resist: That proves that I am not a SEDUCEE.

The Pharisees were condemned for the following:
1. They invented their own rules and sermons.
2. They did it to keep from teaching the Word "as it had been taught."
3. They specialized in public performance (prayers or sermons).
4. They did all of this to steal the houses (church houses) of widows.
5. Jesus fired the DOCTORS OF THE LAW because they did and do TAKE AWAY THE KEY TO KNOWLEDGE.

Therefore, the professional preachers were the SEDUCERS and the "audience" was the sect of SEDUCEES.

Jesus identified them as DEVILS because they SPEAK ON THEIR OWN. Therefore, obey that great Prophetess, Nancy Ragan, and JUST SO NO. Leave the sect of SEDUCEES and just be a Christian, free at last, free at last.

Ken

This is out of my book "Church of Christer's Handbook of End Times" from the chapter The conditions of God's deliverance.

II Thessalonions 2: 7-12 If you are not a lover of the Truth, GOD sends the delusion that will deceive you. Who sends it? God, God sends this delusion it is sent by God! I harp on this because it is not the vision of God that Hirelings feel will make you comfortable with God, and if you are not comfortable with God, you will stop coming to church to fund their lusts. I am sorry this is harsh, but brother & sister I am concern about your soul, that you get the truth. So you fulfill the purpose of your existences: To bring Glory to God.

Obedient
Isaiah 66:1-5 1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven my throne, and the earth my footstool: where the house that ye build unto me? And where the place of my rest? 2 For all those hath mine hand made, saith the LORD: but to these will I look, to poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. 3 He that killeth and ox he slew a man; he that sacrificth a lamb, he cut off a dog’s neck; he that offereth an oblation, swine’s blood; he that burneth incense, he blessed an idol, Yea they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. 4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose in which I delighted not. 5 Hear the word of the LORD , ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you our for my name’s sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.
The first part of verse three is about what God thinks about all of our works, the gifts we give God. The true gift that God wants is a poor and contrite spirit that fears his word. This is good preaching on what God thinks about, our practicing and bring into our lives and churches, the pagan holidays of Christmas, Easter, Valentine, Lent and Halloween. What I want you to see is God sends delusions. The last part of verse 3, If we do not have a submitting heart and expect God to bless us no matter how or what we do He will send a delusion that will condemn you! Even if you are His chosen people. God is on His throne saying “This is the deal, I AM THE ALMIGHTY. I ANSWER TO NO ONE, BUT MYSELF”. Continue your study of keeping God’s commandments: John 8:51 John 14:15 John 15:9-17 I John 2:1-6 I John 3:22I John 5 Rev 3:10-12 Rev 12:17, Rev 14:12, Rev 20:7-20

To God be the Glory
Joe McKnight

Kevin...I went to a funeral in Feb 2001 for a young man, early 50's, who was a shining example of Christian walk.

The songs at the beginning of the service were solemn, peaceful and thought provoking.

I knew the man for just over 10 years. It never took him more than a couple minutes after meeting someone new to learn about their eternal security. He was a servant in deeds as well as message. The last 18 months of his life was spent in a physical battle with cancer along with his continued personal evangelism. During that period he chose to record his thoughts on video tape regarding all aspects of his faith. That video was played, about 20 minutes long, and at its end the man preaching the funeral stepped forward just behind the casket. There wasn't a dry eye among the 300 or so in attendance. He looked to his left at the family and said this, "The toughest funerals I ever preach are those when the person in the casket has no hope of heaven. But that's not the case here. We are here to celebrate the face to face meeting of ------ and his Savior. The pain is gone...the memories remain...mainly the good memories!"

Allow me to digress to the last interview on the tape...one week before his passing...weakened and frail, these were his words. "If my GOD heals me I win!!!...If I die and go to be with HIM, I win!!! My only grief will be for those dearest to me...that they will not be where I am until we are united...my prayer is that you will be with me where I go."

The singing at this point was upbeat and joyous...a celebration!

At this point the preacher said he would be remiss if did not offer the invitation...he preached Jesus and somewhere between 20 and 30 made a decision for Christ...I'm not a scorekeeper...that's up to HIM. I believe it was a celebration...the angels in heaven were singing at those being added to the Kingdom.

Kevin, I have only one question. Is it possible to be "joyfully reverent"?

ls

Yes, I believe it is possible to be joyfully reverent; however, I don't believe a rehearsed clapfest is evidence of that.

Prayerfully Onward,

Kevin