If the JESUS PROJECT has not struck yet it may pretty soon.
The Jesus Seminar is an AMONG THE SCHOLARS group who claim that most of the Bible is not reliable. For instance, the only thing they have been able to RESCUE which the Spirit apparently was able to preserve of the Lord's Prayer was---"OUR FATHER."
Now, God is pretty weak but they preach another god and another lord. They claim NEW GLASSES for a NEW VISION OF THE CHURCH but we will show you that their POSTMODERN view is spread throughout history beginning in the garden of Eden where Lucifer (the effeminate mother of music) asked and always "answers you a question" said: "hath God really said"?
Rubel Shelly says that the important parts are seven facts ABOUT Jesus. The rest has been SIFTED through philosophy and the personal agendas of the writer.
Therefore, shortly after the big push of the JESUS SEMINAR which intends to free you from all of the myths and legends of the Bible, Rubel Shelly and John York have launched their JESUS PROJECT. I suspect that it will spread: one SOWING OF DISCORD EFFORT after another to keep your eyes off Jesus and His Word.
We wil point out that THE NEW-STYLE WORSHIP and church organization totally repudiatse the whole Bible because the only resource for MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAMS comes from the homosexual priests worshiping homosexual gods and goddesses.
http://www.piney.com/RsJesusProposalI.html
Part two will follow. In fairness we can only review a summary because the sermons have been pulled from fair evaluation on the internet.
What is going on there? Firing Deacons and appointing Deaconesses! Did anybody not think to read I Timothy 2 before coming to that conclusion? Keeping members in the dark. It's like a covert operation, not a body of Christ! Get it together people. Ya'll are rubbing off on other churches.
Read 2 Timothy 2 Jeff and after you read that...read it again...and after that...read it again, then come back an tell me why it is good for Richland Hills to be doing what they are.
Ok Scott. I read it, and then reread it, and then read it again as you requested. The verses that stuck out to me were:
23: Again, I say, don't get involved in FOOLISH, IGNORANT arguments that only START FIGHTS. 24 The Lord's servants MUST NOT QUARREL but must be kind to everyone. They must be able to TEACH effectively and be patient with DIFFICULT PEOPLE. 25 THey should gently teach those who oppose the TRUTH. Perhaps God will change THOSE PEOPLE'S hearts and they will believe the truth. 26 Then THEY will COME TO THEIR SENSES and escape from the Devil's trap. For THEY have been HELD CAPTIVE by him to do whatever he wants.
I think that these verses speak volumes to those that wish to "stir up" things and are not in submission to their elders.
2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
I also offer the following:
Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Rom 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
I am quoting from the New LIVING translation. I don't think it is PERVERETED as you say, but, whatever....
That is what it says, and what it says is...GET ALONG!
Don't create strife. That, in my estimation, is what pages like this do.
It says we are to avoid foolish and unlearned questions because they cause strife. We are to teach with gentleness and patience because God may give them repentance if they acknowledge the truth. To those that teach false doctrine, a different approach is to be used. We are instructed to mark those who teach false doctrine and to avoid them. Does that sound like we are to get along with them?
I have included the following for your reference. There are very many good links on this website that compare the corrupt versions of the Bible to the one true and good translation, the King James Version. Even the New King James Version is corrupt. All Christians should educate themselves about these differences. Satan began corrupting the Word in the Garden of Eden and it continues today.
A FEW OF THE SERIOUS TEXTUAL OMISSIONS IN THE NLT
Matthew 17:21 -- entire verse omitted
Matthew 18:11 -- entire verse omitted
Matthew 19:9 -- half verse omitted
Matthew 23:14 -- entire verse omitted
Mark 6:11 -- half verse omitted
Mark 7:16 -- entire verse omitted
Mark 9:44,46 -- entire verses omitted
Mark 11:26 -- entire verse omitted
Mark 15:28 -- entire verse omitted
Mark 16:9-20 -- entire passage is questioned in a footnote which says, "The most reliable early manuscripts conclude the Gospel of Mark at verse 8"
Luke 4:8 -- "get thee behind me Satan" is omitted
Luke 17:36 -- entire verse omitted
Luke 23:17 -- entire verse omitted
John 1:14,18; 3:16,18 -- the all important word "begotten" is omitted
John 3:13 -- "which is in heaven" is omitted John 5:4 -- entire verse omitted
John 7:53--8:11 -- entire passage is questioned in a note which says, "The most ancient Greek manuscripts do not include John 7:53--8:11"
Acts 8:37 -- entire verse omitted
Acts 28:29 -- entire verse omitted
Romans 16:24 -- entire verse omitted
1 Timothy 3:16 -- "God" is omitted
1 Timothy 6:5 -- "from such withdraw thyself" is omitted
Hebrews 1:3 -- the all-important words "by himself" are omitted
1 Peter 4:1 -- "for us" is omitted
1 Peter 4:14 -- half of verse is omitted
1 John 4:3 -- the all-important words "Christ is come in the flesh" are omitted 1 John 5:7-8 -- Trinitarian clause omitted
1 John 5:13 -- half of the verse is omitted
Revelation 1:11 -- first half of verse is omitted
Revelation 5:14 -- "him that liveth forever and ever" is omitted
Jeff is apparently a stalking horse for Broadway in Lubbock where he CLAIMS to be a missionary, leadership of the PRAYER ministry and MEN'S ministry. There, they are BAPTIZED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT and you will just waste your time using SCRIPTURE on Jeff.
Jeff believes in the BAPTIST Believer's Baptism which surfaced about 1500 as ZWINGLISM quite identical to ancient PAGAN BAPTISM. If you will look at Richland's CREED you will see that they use some fool the fools definition of Baptism.
Jeff also rejoices when the Purpose Driven Cult brags about Infiltrating and Diverting to steal your building after it is paid for by the old folks, then turn the old School of the Bible into a THEATER FOR HOLY ENTERTAINMENT. I have tried to tell Jeff--but he mocks truth--that the watching AUDIENCE is going to see the TEAMS just as they were in earliest history: successful as entertainers because of EMOTIONAL or SEXUAL abnormality.
This is POSTMODERN which you learn at Jubilee and your nearest once 'christian' college now staffed by people who claim that we are post-Biblical and even post-Christendom era and they come to Jubilee to learn that lying, cheating and stealing church houses of widows is the NEW AND IMPROVED version of Churchianity using the legalism of LEVITICAL WORSHIP TEAMS and supporting Missionaries in Residence with the TITHE.
Of Course, Charles Wesley defines trying to SUBVERT or DIVERT the church paying your unlawful WAGE as the slime belly of dishonesty (something like that).
Jeff Day has a BROADWAY CHURCH OF CHRIST e-mail so I suggest that someone check on their CREED on neo-pagan (Baptist) view of baptism which arose 1500 years too late to be CHRISTIAN. You cannot go ecumenical or CO-OPERATIVE with Baptists without subscribing to their pagan belief much like the world's EUCHARIST or MASS.
My bad people. I wanted Jeff to read I Timothy 2, not II Timothy 2. It talks about the womans role in worship. That's why I wanted you to apply that to what is happening at Richland Hills. But since you (Jeff) go to Broadway in Lubbock, you probably don't have the first clue what is going on at RHCofC. Tell Amanda Hi from Scott.
Scott. I do not go to RHCOC, that is true, but I do have somewhat of a "clue" based on what has been reported here by these people that run this site. I do not wish to tell you all what to do, only lend my opinion as to what I beleive about what is posted here.
I don't go to RHCC either Jeff but I do go to a church here in Ft. Worth. I am afraid that the church that I do go to is headed down the same road as RHCC and Madison. We are building a new building....never mind; it's a long story. I don't agree at all with what is happening at RHCC. Neither does God..he outlined who a deacon should be in Timothy. A deacon should be the husband of 1 wife...how can a woman be the husband of 1 wife? Just tell Amanda that I know Chip...she'll know who I am. By the way, if you are a "minister" at Broadway, why isn't your picture on the website, or is Jeff Day not your real name?
Scott, I will tell Amanda that....anyway, don't listen to that crackpot Kenny. I am a ministry leader. I am not a minister, I am a layperson. I work at a job and get a paycheck selling A/C equipment to contractors.
However, my passion is working in the church and I work in various areas. My opinions are mine and I do not have conversations, except for with my friends who know me and keep me in check, about what we are discussing here. I just think it is fun (except when I get verbally assaulted) to throw your opinion in see what happens.
Anyway. I appreciate your position, but with the culture and everything the way it was then and now, I just beg to differ on this one. The Bible is not a rulebook to be pounding on people's heads and pointing to passages and say "You see here...you are wrong!"
I think it is the Good News of Jesus and what HE did for us. Of course we are to follow God's commands, but many things Paul spoke of to the various churches were CULTURAL in nature, dealing with issues of THIER day, not our's.
Anyway, I probably won't change your opinion, and you will not change mine, but it is fun to talk back and forth in LOVE and not hate which some like to do here.
Jeff...I appreciate your position as well. If I understand what you said correctly, you are saying that the Bible is not a rule book, is that right? Then what is it if it is not a guideline to how we are supposed to live our lives? If what you say is true, then we can run out in the streets and create all kinds of hell and worship all kinds of gods (or am I totally missing the boat on what you said?) Please expand. So do you agree with what went on at Madison and Richland Hills? Do you think it is OK to have women leaders in the church even though the bible says that women are supposed to be silent?
I responded to a women on the Buckingham Road site and the "moderator" didn't post it for some unknown reason. I didn't say anything worse than you calling Ken a crackpot, which I found quite amusing by the way. Someone from madison runs the website. Have you noticed that when a post is edited, there is that box that says "this post was edited by the Madison church of Christ"?
Scott. I do believe that the Bible is the word of God and of course it has everything in it that we need to tell us how to live. I certainly was not saying that God's word was an optional thing.
I think that the way I phrased it may not have come across well. I believe that the writers of many of the letters to the first churches spoke of many things dealing with cultural issues. For instance, the whole "women keep silent" thing was Paul dealing with a specific problem in a specific church where certain women were being disruptive in that church. Also, the headcovering thing was a cultural issue back then. And, he did not want that disrupting the congregation so that they would be distracted.
Also, there was the whole circumcision issue with the Jewish Christians. I don't think that these were meant to be RULES for us to follow during our time like they were for their time. Paul addressed these things because of cultural issues of the time that he lived in.
The Good News is what we should be focusing on, not these "non-salvation" issues. We should be centered on the doing and dying of Christ not the doing of other periphreal things. That is what I meant.
As far as the posting of what you say here...I have found that certain people here have certain priveleges that others of us don't enjoy. They can post scathing remarks that personally attack whoever they are rebutting and "squash" their opinion, while those of us that respond in a like way get censored or thrown into the "Viper's Den" which I believe is almost a badge of honor anymore.
Just realize what you are dealing with here. you are not going to change certain people's opinions, you are only going to make them mad and they will respond in kind.
Just know that before posting and take their response with a grain of salt. I learned that the hard way. this board is not moderated with a point-of-view which is non-biased.
Anyway, that is all I have to say at this time. This is the type of conversation that I enjoy - no personal attacks, just good discussion.
KS. You would have the people that visit this site believe tha I am some kind of pied piper sent in here to lure unsuspecting, baby christians into the fold of the Devil himself....I actually laughed histarically at your incredibly dim-witted expository where you railed about "jeff the big, bad wolf"....I am still laughing.
Do I garner so much attention that you would refer TWICE to other posts that I have made? And, then you make the absurd statement that I CLAIM to be a minister. Actually the question was ASKED by another person who posts here who took my email address and then extrapolated it into our churches web address. I merely acknowledged it. I never CLAIMED or BRAGGED about it. You are the one who continues to bring it up in such a way that is UNLOVING and seeks to continually BERATE me for my beliefs.
You know what Ken, I am a child of the MOST HIGH just like you. You are NO BETTER than I am. He bled and died for me JUST LIKE HE DID FOR YOU! You proclaim to have it all figured out, I don't. I know that EVERYTHING I offer to Him, whether it is worship, money, efforts to evangelize others......it is all FILTHY RAGS compared to what he did for us. And, that goes for YOUR worship as well...no matter WHO is RIGHT, it is ALL filthy rags. So, in the end, your view of worship, my view of worship and how it should be, it all ends up being the SAME. NO DIFFERENCE.
Are you the one who is Prayer Ministry Leader (What EVER that is)? Must not be. Sorry about that.
Are you the same Jeff Day who tried to pick up all of the SEED I was planting from the Bible by telling everyone I must be a sex addict or something like that?
Must not be. Sorry about that.
Are you the same Jeff Day who jumped right into the BAPTISM study by proclaiming the Baptist Faith Only Dogma which arose in about 1500?
Must not be. Sorry about that.
Did you try to convince ALL of the forum that FAITH ONLY was the only faith by all of those proof texts?
Must not be. Sorry about that.
Assuredly I am no better than you but I am more saved than you if you believe in FAITH ONLY which has meaning ONLY in the context of ORIGINAL SIN and PREDESTINATION.
And if you believe in BELIEVER'S BAPTISM in which you must wrestly through LAW and have Jesus die for you personally then I at least have not repudiated the value of the ONCE FOR ALL TIMES sacrifice of Christ.
But then I have a REAL Bible (several versions) and not one written for children as one man's personal story.
Jeff, if you TRUST the FAITH IN GOD who resurrected Jesus rather than your own faith in faith then you should be baptized FOR (In order to) the remission of sins. Then Jesus will give you A holy spirit or a clear conscience. There are many things associated with baptism which FAITH IN FAITH does not give you.
Yes Kenny, I am the Jeff Day you have been posting things about for a couple of months now. I guess you did not GET the point of my earlier post.
I did not bring up or point out to you or anyone on this site about the ministries in my church that I am a part of. YOU and Mr. McKnight (for whatever selfish reason YOU might have) WENT to the site and found out yourself and then proclaimed to the board....LOOK AT THIS GUY...HE SAYS THIS STUFF AND HE ACTUALLY GOES TO A CHURCH OF CHRIST...HOW MISLED HE IS....HOW MUCH OF A MISLEADER (or hireling?? I think you guys say) HE MUST BE....I WONDER HOW MANY GOOD CHRISTIANS HE HAS LED DOWN THE SADDLEBACKER ROAD.....GLOOM DISPAIR AND AGONY ON ME!!!!
Well, oh contrare montrare, I work in those ministries but really have no influence on others as you might think. I work for no one but God. I have my own opinions and spout them here because I find you all very amusing and the conversation TITILATING (if I might use that term). And that's all I have to say about that.
As far as the Baptism thing...I have been nigh 20+ years ago.
Lastly, where saddleback, hegelian dialect, zwinglian (sp?), baptist baptism, and any other terms you have used to label me are concerned.....I am rubber and you are glue, whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you.
This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!
...........................THE BOOK
What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?
There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.
This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison
Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource
references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least
you will recognize the signs early on.
Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't
know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.
Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was
one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.
It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of
it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word
of Jesus Christ.
At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority
of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly
realm.
They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and
to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.
The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan.
Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books,
seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change
so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....
At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to
be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched
through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the
"Community Church Movement"
Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready,
or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the
plans very nature, it had to be secret.
The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was
never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last
15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.
The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the
elders went along unwittingly.
This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell
something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill
in some of the timeline.
To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the
background materials in the first of the book.
This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be
printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our
web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison
Here is the list of players;
5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten
commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)