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T

63.230.60.211

crazy

August 24 2014, 11:51 PM 

This is crazy insane!

 
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Weldon McKinney

163.179.143.71

An Observation

November 19 2002, 5:16 AM 

There is ONE thing that I have noticed since my years in college at Lubbock Christian University from 1968-1972, and that is the liberal minded who plead for tolerance are usually the lest tolerant!

James, you make an excellent point: I concur with your sentiment wholeheartedly. The Richland Hill church of Christ is not mine. Period.

On the other hand it is not the elders or ministers or members who have stayed or members who have left. It IS Christ’s own body—His church.

And whatever takes place; the church IS HIS, even until He chooses to disclaim that body—wherever it may be. Read carefully the seven churches of Asia Minor in John’s Revelation. It is clear, and oh so clear that the church IS HIS.

On elder, preacher, college teacher or most of all myself have been blessed with infallibility. Contenting for the faith once for all delivered to the saints is just as important submission to our elders.

I am not trying to lecture you James, but I certainly felt your anger and a lot of venom in your post—but my brother, I did not sense the love.

I will say this again: I have not changed my belief and doctrine. The leaders at RHCC made the changes. The 25 theses we posted in love—that I know. Luther posted his 95 theses in love as well. There were things wrong with the church that he felt needed to change. It was love, not hatred or malice, which prompted his exercise of both love and faith to reform a church that had gone so far astray.



 
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James Kisner

207.190.67.96

Re: An Observation

November 19 2002, 9:42 AM 

Brother McKinney,

I do apologize that the tone of my post sounded vitriolic. I assure you that wasn't my intent. I usually read the posts on here and wait a day or so to respond so as to keep myself in check (usually I don't respond). However, this time I digressed and responded immediately. Looking back I can see that I erred, at least in the tenor of my post. For that, I ask for your forgiveness.

However, regarding the basic gist of my comments, I offer no apology. I was taught growing up, as I said, in a very conservative but mainline Church of Christ, that it is better to leave a church in peace than to openly, and especially by the circulation of letters, petitions, meetings, etc., accuse an eldership of unscriptural decision-making. I was educated in one of the best Christian colleges in the non-instrumental brotherhood, and to the person, everyone of my Bible instructors warned their young preaching students to avoid any group in a church that would "go up against" (those are my words)an eldership. We were told specifically that it is always better just to leave quietly, with the church in tact. And, maybe that is what you folks did. Only you, God, and the Richland Hills Church know that.

Obviously, I went out of control with my previous post, and though you and I still disagree on this issue, I hope and pray that you'll see that I am not quite as venemous as you thought. Thanks for your consideration and God bless you as you search the scriptures.

Sincerely,

James Kisner

 
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Anonymous

163.179.177.83

Thanks James, very much

November 20 2002, 6:15 AM 

That is more like what I was have expected from my brother!

I was taught an over-whelming respect for elders--they care a great self-imposed, congregation imposed and God imposed responsibility.

But, the one difference that comes forth here is the one for the ultimate authority of God's Word. My teachings led me to respect the Word over the opinions of man.

To simply leave a congregation "silently" when a point of scripture and the very organization of the church is at hand, is a whole different matter. To leave silently under such circumstances would be the same as giving silent consent to changes that you know are in conflict with the Word. In order words, do "we serve God or man?"

And what would happen in a small town where there is only one congregation of the Lord's church?

There just may be more to the story than in on the surface. I have found Mac McAllister and Elvin Bobo and wives Barb and Beth to be very creditable people. Their stories were freighting to me! Some of that is documented here.

In matters of opinions, I will bend far, but in Scriptural matters, I believe in sincere and honest, tempered with love, discussion.

To find a "deaconess" in I Timothy is a far stretch to me. I have studies carefully and understand the conclusion that the elders and staff agreed to, I still believe that it is a stretch and not in harmony with the all the Scriptures.

I believe that all are equal in the church and in every aspect of our lives. But equal does not mean SAME. It does appear that societal changes and the National Organization of Women are even beginning to effect church policy.

I prefer Scriptural authority. To attempt to PATTREN my Christianity as closely as possible to the inerrant Word of God should be the mission of each of us.

Thank you James, for you response in love--it is exactly what I would have expected from you--and appreciate so very much.

For those treating the church of Christ as a denomination, both from the progressive and the conservative side, please carefully evaluate what you are doing.

 
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Weldon McKinney

163.179.154.18

OOPS

November 21 2002, 5:22 AM 

Somehow, my name was omitted from the above article. I most sincerely apologize and especially to James.

Weldon

 
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Bobby Murray

216.62.96.121

Martin Luther

May 20 2003, 10:10 AM 

Why use the 95 thesis written by Martin Luther as an example? We (church of christ) do not accept his teachings nor do we fellowship with the modern luthern churches. So what he did should be irrelivant.

 
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Bob Hogue

12.35.45.195

Great Answer

January 20 2003, 10:51 AM 

God Bless you-that was a great response.If you can not
peacefully worship together-find a place where you can and maintain the Unity!!Thanks In His Love and Grace Bob

 
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Kenneth Sublett

63.84.81.115

25 Thesis

November 6 2002, 9:00 PM 

I have read the 25 thesis and find that they address the same blasphemous error addressed by Martin Luther when He --rising above all of the cowards of history--risked his life just as surely as those at Richland Hills risk the loss of all past enjoyment of the PEACE for which Christ died. The burden of purgatory or indulgencs or the rituals of the CLERGY was "spiritual anxiety created by religious ritual."

I have posted Luther's thesis here:

http://www.piney.com/Luther95.html

I will later draw some perfect parallels such as the elders as POPES, indulgencies in the form of "if you give me your hard earned money then you won't be cursed." Or if you let my strange musicians LEAD YOU INTO GOD'S PRESENCE rather than Jesus then I can guarantee that you will be saved. Or, you must obey all of my ministry team or you will be cursed.

In short all DOMINANT CLERGY churches are quite identical to the Catholic church including holding 'inquisitions' to decide whether you advance "one giant step" toward the center of the Purpose Driven Cult circle. The CONFISCATION of "church houses of widows" meets the pattern.

The capstone is an exposure of doctrinal errors which any literate Bible student would applaud.

Let your hearts not be troubled! Pseudo Bartholomew defined backbiting against clear Biblical statements as blasphemy against the Holy Spirit:

2 Jesus saith unto him: Verily I say unto thee that hypocrisy and backbiting is heavier than all sins: for because of them, the prophet said in the psalm, that 'the ungodly shall not rise in the judgement, neither sinners in the council of the righteous', neither the ungodly in the judgement of my Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, that every sin shall be forgiven unto every man, but the sin against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven.

All of these positions of walking, standing and sitting are places in the Greek theater

3 And Bartholomew saith unto him: What is the sin against the Holy Ghost?

4 Jesus saith unto him: Whosoever shall decree (decide) against any man that hath served my holy Father hath blasphemed against the Holy Ghost:

For every man that serveth God worshipfully is worthy of the Holy Ghost,

and he that speaketh anything evil against him shall not be forgiven.

You have said what Lord Jesus Christ said through the Holy Spirit: nothing can or will be refuted by any Bible student because the CHANGE AGENTS know that they will be melted like wax if they respond: they will not, they cannot. When they reject the Word, Paul said to the Hebrews, they have committed the unforgivable sin.

Like the holy people who fell into mixed-sex choirs, instrumental music and women on display they have fallen and they will never get up. Enoch, Jubilees and a dozen other ancient documents confirm the result of ALL of the musical passages in the Bible.

Rejoice and be glad! Some people would tear down "Judas: Wanted for carrying the Judas Bag." Contained stolen money and the "mouthpieces of his wind instruments. Used to WHOLLY PERVERT Jesus as a repeat of the garden of Eden."

Ken Sublett

 
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ksublett@piney.com

63.84.81.89

25 EXCELLENT STATEMENTS

November 7 2002, 9:45 AM 

Vowed to be silent but chided for silence I believe that the statement in the 25 THESIS will be "ripped off the doors" just as the Jews tried to figuratively "rip off" the Thesis of Jesus. These must be spread into the watching world and must be shown to be TOTALLY REASONABLE to the literate and even to the INFILTRATORS AND DIVERTERS who believe that the Holy Spirit gives them a demand to be "greater than Moses or greater than Jesus." The rippers clearly love to be MINISTERS OF DIVERSION just as all TEAMS divert from the Words of Christ. Too wordy? Fine, don't put your TITHE in my basket.

=========================================
Thesis 7. We call on your minister, Rick Atchley, to repent of his willful failure to preach against the unbiblical use of mechanical music in Christian worship, and of his bold declaration that he not only has never preached on the subject in all his tenure here, but that neither shall he ever do so in the future. He denied that Nadab and Abihu were stricken dead for offering "strange fire" in his sermon based on Leviticus 10 called "Fire Alarms," concluding that God will never judge a man on the basis of "something the Bible says nothing about".
-----[Note: The absurd and false doctrine that there is no significance in the silence of Scripture allows adding anything a person desires in worship so long as there is no "thou shalt not". A booklet was written by a then-member at Richland Hills to refute this doctrine: A Commentary On What The Bible Does NOT Say. Thousands have been circulated in only a short time, showing widespread interest in the subject.]

=========================================
FIRST, we should recognize that in postmodern theology OLD TRUTH has disappeared into a "black hole" and we are free by grace. That means that telling a lie in the interest of SAVING SOULS AT ANY COST is not wrong. To quote Rubel Shelly "It is SIN if we do not become as much like the world as possible to win the world." Or, "we need to baptize things like Santa (Saturn 666) or the S.U.N. god to think of the S.O.N. God."

Therefore, it is a fatal misunderstanding if we do not grasp that the STONE- CAMPBELL RESTORATION DENOMINATION is made up of Christian Churches who began by stealing church houses of widows along with PRETEND members of the church of Christ agreeing to INFILTRATE AND DIVERT.

John Waddey notes what the Purpose Driven Cultists have always confessed:

--"To operate under the false pretense that they are faithful members of the Church of Christ when all the while they are working to undermine and destroy her, to lead away disciples after them (Acts 20: 30).

----"To use DECEIT to snatch away a building from those who BUILT and PAID for it. Captured meeting houses are like TROPHIES in war. Possession of them saves years of work and thousands, even millions of dollars. They provide a CLOAK of respectability to those who are operate out of them. They shrewdly keep their purposes veiled UNTIL they have gave sufficient power to claim the property. Such is a form of LEGAL theft. John Waddey."

We know that for a fact: then they turn Sunday Nights into a perfect example of WITCHCRAFT. ZOE is the Mother Goddess, know as the BEAST and the "female instructing principle." She is the Jezebel to the Ahabs with 850 musical prophesiers.

=========================================
SECOND, by dodging the GOPHER WOOD, and NADAB and ABIHU the false teachers believe that they have DODGED THE BULLET. However, to the literate, Satan or Lucifer (ZOE) began his/her perverted assault on Eve right in the garden. Every Biblical instance of combining voice and instruments speaks of the CURSE of animal sacrifices or of male and female prostitutes plying their trade UP CLOSE to the temple. All SINGING and PLAYING words speak of stealing or sexual PERVERSION.

Didn't we all watch with horror as probably the most conservative churches fell sucker to the new MANTRA that the ONLY work of the church is to WORSHIP. Worship to the overwhelming majority means to have fun singing CHURCHY songs which history acknowledges to be largely a product of REVIVALISM and VOODOO. Didn't they all give the MULTITUDE of song leaders a SECOND INCARNATION into ONE Musical Worship Minister. Terminal sin.

At the same time NONE of us were TEACHING AND ADMONISHING which is preaching and exhorting using the BIBLICAL RESOURCES. We were quite happy to have our children grow up ignorant being fed and diverted from the truth by singing FOUR PART FANNY. So, let's share the blame. Repenting means RESTORATION and we are all caught with CCM in our teeth a bit older than the new stuff. Know an elder and a Phd who "raised their ebenezzer" by STACKING BRICKS. God we pray that "thou hast a juvenile court."

=========================================
THIRD, Paul warned against this SENDING FOR AN EXPERT in musical idolatry in 1 Cor 10 and in Romans 10:

---"No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to DEMONS (bull idols), not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. 1 Cor 10:20

---"If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak (sing) with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? 1 Cor 14:23

This is why Paul's DIRECT COMMAND was to "glorify God with one voice" using "that which is written," The Spirit or the Words of Christ. The purpose was to TEACH AND ADMONISH and not to EXHILARATE or enrapture (rape).

=========================================
FOURTH: John Chrysostom and ALL historical scholars:

---"Not a word of sacrifice till then: and the first mention is, of the sacrifices offered to the calf. In like manner, "they rejoiced," "the people ate and drank, and rose up to play:"

--------and in consequence of this,

the feasts were prescribed: might be rendered, "he MARKS,"

"puts a MARK upon it" (so the innovator, who SUBSTITUTES: we take it passively, "there is a MARK set over it-it is emphatically denoted." In the active, the verb taken intransitively means

"to betoken or announce itself," "make its first appearance."

http://www.piney.com/DocChrysosHomXVII.html

=========================================
FIFTH, anyone not INFILTRATING AND DIVERTING understands that the PLAY at Mount Sinai was a return to the MUSICAL IDOLATRY of Egypt, Babylon or Canaan:

------"The triumphal hymn of Moses had unquestionably a religious character about it; but the employment of MUSIC in RELIGIOUS services, THOUGH IDOLATROUS, is more distinctly MARKED in the festivities which attended the erection of the golden calf." (Smith's Bible Dictionary, Music, p. 589).

-----------"They sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play. They practiced rites in which they made themselves naked, perhaps similar to those which were carried out by naked Babylonian priests." (Woodward, p. 158).

=========================================
SIXTH, When the LEVITES who were WARRIOR MUSICIANS put the sword to the MUSICAL IDOLATERS how did they know who to kill?

God put a MARK on them just as the SETHITES who fell into the hands of the CAINITE YOUTH being guided by SATAN a bisexual ELDER who taught them how to SEDUCE with mixed-sex choirs, instrumental music, fine seductive clothing, and perverted sexuality: The Book of Enoch, Jubilees and a dozen similar pre and post Christ documents.

The MARK of Apollyon or Abaddon who is APOLLO is the mark of "musical harmony, twanging bowstrings sending 'singing' arrows, thieves and liars. He/she is the end-time Babylon Whore.

Music MARKS the mind or forehead and the hand as "worshiping God with the INTENSIVE WORKS of human hands." History makes that clear. The MARK of Christ is his WORD which HE said "is SPIRIT AND LIFE." Those MARKED will not repent because they CANNOT repent any more than contracting a infectious plague can be repented of.

=========================================
SEVENTH, the LAW OF SILENCE is used ONLY by those who would IMPOSE musical instruments (in which the demons dwelled and from which they spoke in all ancient beliefs). The Bible INSISTS that we observe its silence on DOCTRINAL issues. The "no LAW' is just plain LEGALISM just as MUSIC is legalism. However, this is just another DIVERSION. The Bible IS NOT SILENT connecting INSTRUMENTS to telling God "we will not listen to YOUR words."

Paul defined the FIRST INSTRUMENT OF CHOICE in both Psalmos and modern Song: the human voice. The INFILTRATERS AND DIVERTS get by with it because we have had NO intention of ever teaching the BODY any UNSCRAMBLED facts. Psalm 41 prophesied that Judas would try to musically PERVERT Jesus and in Jesus' first encounter with a Musical Worship Team He "cast them out MORE OR LESS VIOLENTLY."

=========================================
CONCLUSION: One sincerely doubts that anyone could be so IGNORANT of the 100% of evidence connecting MUSICAL WORSHIP to Satan or destruction (Abad: the SERVICE of the Levite noise makers). It is not POSSIBLE to have read the Bible and not HAVE grasped the FALSEHOOD, perverted sexuality and ANTI-God meaning of musical worship which STEALS the worship due God which LUCIFER tried to steal in heaven. She is ZOE the BEAST.

The conclusion is that they have INFILTRATED and DIVERTED just like the Israelite ELDERS who led the charge to FIRE God and hire a KING like the nations so that they could "worship like the nations" or Babylonians. God gave them kings in His anger and took them away in His anger. The kings were prophesied to lead the nation into captivity and death earned because of the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai.

Apollyon, Abaddon or Apollo "has landed" and the locusts (cymbals) have been resurrected with scorpion stings in their TAILS. For now, DON'T give them any more money in TITHES as a return to Judaism and a fall from grace. NO. Don't give them your car, jewelry, insurance policy, stocks or bonds: NOTHING until they repent and MOVE AWAY.

Kenneth Sublett

 
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Sandy Spengler

12.238.162.212

Unbelievable

January 10 2003, 4:31 AM 

Where in the Bible does it say anything about instruments in church service? And if your basing your church service on what was done in the old testament I think you need to have many more changes. I am sure they did not have microphones, and pews, for goodness sake they met in homes. We don't meet in homes. How do you know they did not raise there hands. Where is that mentioned in the Bible?

I do believe that baptisim is a response to and a show of obedience as a result of being saved by grace. But if you must do something to be saved, thats a work and our salvation is not a free gift from God. The Bible teaches clearly that we are not saved by works.

Do you really believe that God would not be faithful to all those out there seeking him? Do you really believe that He would lead Billy Graham and millions of others earnestly seeking him down the wrong path after all these years?

Do you really think if we don't follow your ways we will all perish? How about those in Africa that sing and shout out loud and dance before the Lord with no musical instruments because their culture is different from ours. Shall they perish too?

After reading your posting I am so glad I have been free from all this nonsense for the last 9 years. I have been able to focus on Jesus as my salvation and loving others as Jesus loved me. Not- musical instrumnets, have you been dunked (we don't care what's in your heart or if you understand what salvation means to your lifestyle, we want to know if you have been emersed fully under water). Just think of all God could do for the kingdom if we spent as much time on Him as you have wasted on bashing His church.

 
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Roland Whittemore

66.191.227.18

amen

July 21 2003, 8:57 PM 

All I can say is "AMEN" to your post. God bless.

 
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shawn

201.121.231.153

"Amen" by Roland Whittemore

June 24 2006, 9:03 PM 

Hey Ken. I was wondering if you some times sign in as other people and agree with yourself so it doesn't seem like you are "totally out there" and no one is listening?

 
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Charlene

68.59.246.8

Re: "Amen" by Roland Whittemore

August 4 2008, 6:53 PM 

no he,s not the only one. A-men...

 
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Randi

12.64.216.141

THank you very much

April 2 2004, 12:26 AM 

Great job Sandy. Dont loose heart, okay?

 
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Rick White

158.135.8.102

Putative concerns

December 2 2006, 8:21 PM 

All the fuss about the theses on the door is actually both sad and interesting. In an article concerning the split between Disciples of Christ and Churches of Christ I read recently (Southern History?) showed that the Churches of Christ split fropm the Disciples due primarily to animosity to churches in the North. Instrumental music (richer northern churches could afford them, southern churches could not and of course, we tend to use scriptute to "proof text" our predetermined stance on things), big churches, rich churches, missionary societies, othet things dividing north and south. In passages I have read in the Bible instrumental music was welcomed by God (e.g.the dedication of the temple in 2Chronicles 5) where the musicians played, the singers sang and the Spirit of the Lord filled the Temple. David's playing of musical instruments was pleasing to God, etc.
We are not here to try to copy the protocol used in ther early church practices. Otherwise, song directors would not be allowed, there would be no "announcements, no Bible classes, no Power Point sermons, no Sunday evening Lord's Supper, etc. Since there is nothing inherently evil about instrumental music, other than violation of our tradition, there should be no railing aginst it, rather appriciation of the heartfelt worship of God.
Since we are among 4-5% of Christians disdaining music, it is a little odd that we alone are smart enough to discern God's word and the other 95% of Christians are just too dumb to realize such an "obvious direction" in Christian theology?
Rick C. White

 
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Ken Sublett

69.19.14.28

Putative? Putative?

December 3 2006, 8:17 AM 

Rick, I am not sure that I can dialog with anyone who could use the word PUTATIVE. I think that is something like Urban Legends? Please send me a note about what you are reading: I have probably reviewed it and posted it. I won't sell your address! Let me begin at the ending:
    Rick White: Since we are among 4-5% of Christians disdaining music, it is a little odd that we alone are smart enough to discern God's word and the other 95% of Christians are just too dumb to realize such an "obvious direction" in Christian theology?
I don't know anyone who DISDAINS music! The fact is that the church is "ekklesia" which is "synagogue" which is by civil definition, Biblical commands (Numbers 10), the history of the faithful in Israel, the approved example of Jesus, the direct commands of Paul, the example of Paul and the practice of the church before Constatine means A SCHOOL of the BIBLE. The SABBATH means REST and not Saturday. The Holy Convocation demands reading and rehearsing the Word. The resource is "that which is written" or "Scripture" or "Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs" all of which are INSPIRED. Neither preaching nor singing nor passing the plate happened for almost 400 years when the church WENT and preached with NO WAGED roles: just NONE at all.

Jesus CAST OUT the musical minstrels LIKE DUNG and Stephen repudiated the temple and both were in the APPROVED MINORITY. However, you should know that not even in the vilest pagan religions did singers or musicians enter into the Holy Places where the "gods" were presumed to be. So, you have gone where no Jew or pagan ever went before. Not even the Catholics did "congregational singing with instrumental accompaniment." So, if you are NOT part of the infinitely tiney "remnant" you are in TROUBLE. Fact is, outside of American "christianism" there is little MUSIC seen AS worship. If you will check here you will discover that ALL people repudiated instrumental music AS worship:

http://www.piney.com/MuIndex2.html

Fact is, singing as AN ACT was added close to the year 400: before that then used a simple form of SPEAK as commanded using ONLY the Text to TEACH and ADMONISH, Glorify God, comfort with Scripture and KEEP THE UNITY (All commanded by Paul in Romans 15).
    Rick White: All the fuss about the theses on the door is actually both sad and interesting. In an article concerning the split between Disciples of Christ and Churches of Christ I read recently (Southern History?) showed that the Churches of Christ split fropm the Disciples due primarily to animosity to churches in the North.
Fact is, Rick, churches of Christ (Reformers) were NEVER part of the Stoneites who began as neo-witchcraft at Cane Ridge, Ky (Bourbon county, Hee Haw). "The Church of Christ" is the universal name people used. ALL repudiated instrumental music or "loud ritualism." I have a long list:

http://www.piney.com/ChofChristName.html

A few "Christian churches" agreed to meet in the same building with "Reformers" or churches of Christ. That was because STONE put "union" over doctrine. When the instrument was FORCED IN this agreement to disagree ended. MOST of the Christian churches became Churches of Christ and most of the Stoneite preachers joined the Campbel etal movement. The "christian" churches or DISCIPLES disagreed with the Reformers on EVER SINGLE KEY doctrine including baptism. The Disciples DENOMINATION organized with children as LIFE MEMBERS to include ALL OF CHRISTENDOM wanted to count churches of Christ but it was the CENSUS man who questioned it. Lipscomb denied that they belonged to the Disciples denomination. I have a copy of their PLAN presented in the year 1908.

Fact is, it was the Christian Church which SPLIT from the Disciples because many of them held some of the same views as churches of Christ which were NEVER A PART of the Disciples denomination. So, it was the Christian church which SECTED OUT and not churches of Christ.
    Rick White: Instrumental music (richer northern churches could afford them, southern churches could not and of course, we tend to use scriptute to "proof text" our predetermined stance on things), big churches, rich churches, missionary societies, othet things dividing north and south.
I have a home made flute made out of a deer bone my dog dragged up, a shofar from a cow horn dragged up, a hand made banjo and a hand made dulcimer. I have several flutes made out of pipe and any pipe can be a trumpet. They rolled up leather to make flutes (lifeless instruments) and stretched gut over turtle shells or played their BOW. My Alabama maternal grandparents had one of the oldest reed organs around. I have the receipt of my Paternal Grandmother who bought hers at 10 dollars a month from farming and selling milk and butter. Churches of Christ built many fine buildings, many still standing, and people had all kinds of instruments in their home: harps, zithers, guitars, flutes, melodians, harpsicords. The war was fought in BATTLES and not all over the country. Furthermore, the first legalistic grab for church property was at Sand Creek, Ill and last time I checked that was not in the SOUTH. There was almost NO churches of Christ in the South confiscated by the Organ: NewBern, TN was one such and you can read the law case. The first organ FORCED in by a liberal preacher and removed by an elder was at Midway, Ky and that is NOT in the South.

In 1878 for the FIRST TIME IN HISTORY it was the Disciples who invented the PSALLO or MELODY to mean "sing and play instruments." Churches of Christ had NEVER used instruments even as Baptists and Presbyterians (now so named). They NEEDED no proof text to NOT BE FORCED TO BEGIN something they and ALL RECORDED CHURCH HISTORY repudiates. The PROOF TEXT defines the what and how of the SYNAGOGUE OF CHRIST. No literate Jew or Gentile would hallucinated INSTRUMENTS in Synagogue or Ekklesia.
    Rick White: We are not here to try to copy the protocol used in ther early church practices. Otherwise, song directors would not be allowed, there would be no "announcements, no Bible classes, no Power Point sermons, no Sunday evening Lord's Supper, etc. Since there is nothing inherently evil about instrumental music, other than violation of our tradition, there should be no railing aginst it, rather appriciation of the heartfelt worship of God.
Singing was ADDED close to the year 400 and the clerical "song director" is said by McClintock and Strong to be "the oldest heresy largely pervading the church." So you have FORCED singing as an ACT in direct violation of TEACHING THE TEXT. So, now, little Camel, you want to use THAT as authority for adding instruments? The command is to TEACH THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN and no one objects to chalk and blackboard or any of the false examples.

The COMMAND and the CHRIST PURCHASED PURPOSE was to remove the BURDEN LADERS which means "spiritual anxiety created by religions rituals." The word REST in both Hebrew and Greek is a dedicated word and means (in Greek literature), 'STOP the speaking, stop the singing, stop the instruments, stop the PANic.' When they POLLUTED the Sabbath at Mount Sinai the word (h2490) means to play the flute, steal your inheritance, pollute and prostitute. The word PLAY means to sing, joke, dance, play instruments and play sexually. Paul called it DEMON WORSHIP under the BULL symbol. That is what David repeated when he went naked with the servant girls.

We don't NEED a command to sit down and shut down when Jesus assembles (synagogues) to be our SOLE teacher when the elders as commanded "teach that which has been taught."

Jesus didn't die for HEARTFELT WORSHIP: in fact He prescribes NO SUCH THING. What he told the sinful woman--and no PhDuh can grasp--is that God only seeks worship in the PLACE of the human SPIRIT in contrast to MOUNTAINS and HOUSES. What you FEEL after having all of your nerve endings stroked is NOT spirit but emotion pure and simple. So simple that ALL singing and instrument playing was known as SORCERY. Read Revelation 17 about the Mother of Harlots. Then skip to Revelation 18 and hear the singers, musicians and TECHNICIANS defined as SORCERERS who DECEIVED THE WHOLE WORLD. Jude and the Book of Enoch treats them as revived Fallen Angels. Peter called them a CROOKED generation meaning the "drunk with wine SKOLION singers" who tried to pervert even Jesus.

The Bible--and history knows no exception--proves that it was Lucifer (Zoe) who brought musical instruments into the Garden of Eden as the "singing and harp playing PROSTITUTE." Isaiah 30 proves that Tophet or HELL was prepared SPECIFICIALLY for Satan and those She/he seduced using music: there we see god DRIVING or BEATING people into hell with the same wind, string and percussion instruments Lucifer took into the Garden to WHOLLY SEDUCE Eve so that Cain was OF that wicked one. Cain derived from a MUSICAL NOTE. When you do rhetoric and music that is WHY you missed card class 101aaa and THAT is why music is evil. The word DEMAGOGUE is defined as one who takes you captive (heresy) by lifting you up USING THE POPULAR ARTS. Why didn't your STAFF INFECTION tell you that they are DEMAGOGUES and SORCERERS? Well, YOU figure that one out since they LIE like dogs about the LAW OF SINGING and the LAW OF GIVING.

"Will He find faith when He returns?" No, almost none so don't be giddy about joining the POLIS or majority crowds because Paul said that Jesus will be OUTSIDE suffering reproaches. The battle is against principalities and powers in high places: our weapons are not lifeless instruments or carnal weapons but the WORD OF GOD. Outside of the cursed Monarchy civil and clergy leaders, God has always QUARANTINED His own in local synagogues, ekklesia or assemblies where WE "give attendance to the public reading of the Word, to exortation and doctrine." That fits the universal pattern of the synagogue because by direct command (Numbers 10) and universal understanding "had no praise service."

So, if you want to be saved you have to JOIN tiny remnant which probably HAS ALREADY mostly fled from any modern form of Christianism which has almost no relationship to the Biblical or early historical school of Christ (as Thomas Campbell called it.) They are stealing your money, time, urge to be a disciple (student) and emotiional health. If Jesus visited them they would mock Him like the Levitical Warrior musicians and probably SAT him on the back pew.

 
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Roger Genung

170.211.47.47

Thank you for your stand for the Truth!

August 20 2003, 3:43 PM 

I had heard of most of the error that Richland Hills was involved in, but some of the Items were shocking to me to see that they have falling that far in to apostasy. Thank you so much for the time you took to make this known so others might see the "writing on the wall". My wife and I left the largest congragation in our county because of the error that was being taught. I preach at a small( but faithful) congragation of the Lord's church and am in my 9th year. Thanks be to God.

 
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Jason Fox

203.109.254.40

A candid look

February 4 2004, 5:22 AM 

J.C. Good to hear your words again brother.

Regarding this 25 theses nail to the door. When is one to speak out? And what messures are to be taken in such curcumstances? Clearly all efforts were taken to combat the addressed problems internally without success.

As for some comments of "just walk away quietly". Are Christians just to roll over when confronted with error? Are we really to just walk away for the sake of keeping the peace? I cannot believe people are saying such things. As Christians we are in a war!

I don't know how people can condemn those who wrote this document as the ones causing division. The division already exists. These people have exposed the error, of cause there is going to be contention, and putting your head in the sand does not make it go away.

The question is, who are the ones guilty of causing division? Not the ones who wrote and signed the 25 theses. But the ones who teach and promote doctrine foreign to the Bible.

For to long, to few strong sound brethren have taken on the fight and exposed error in the Ekklesia. And probably for the above reason, they are afraid of being labeled as trouble makers and ones whom cause division.

James Kisner, you are exactly the type of false teacher that is to be exposed and marked. You do not teach the whole councel of God. "Progressive" is only another name for apostate.

As for James comment that we should always respect elders, I agree. But then we are always to respect people. We are taught to be in submission to elders also. But only when the teach the whole councel of God. We are not to be lead by such that teach error. Being opposed to those that teach error does not equate to dis-respect.

To those that says that the 25 theses and the way they have been delivered is not loving, please define love. Seems as though some are only interested in is warm fuzzies. I would say that we are to practice agape love. It may seem to some as harsh, but it is for the greater good of the Body.

Look at how many congregations are mentioned in the Bible and how many of them had strife and contention and error. How were they dealt with? The error was exposed. Do you think peace is being only when one is united with your brother and sister in in Christ? Sure, it's a nice thing, but peace lays in the fact that you know you are saved. If you judge peace by the way you get on with others, then you are going to have a ruff time of it. There are always going to be personality conflicts, minor or even major disagreements of sorts etc... and what of matters of expediency? So you see peace is not when you feel good and everything is going well, because if that is ones messuring stick, it will be short lived.

I am glad that the error at Richland Hills has been exposed. However I fear it may have been left to long to be dealt with and that this congregation may never return to it's first love.

Jason Fox.
NPCoC
New Zealand

 
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Anonymous

64.251.0.102

If we don't stand we will fall for anything!!!

January 6 2009, 1:02 PM 

I must commend Jason and Ken for standing up for God's word!

I am a christian in a small congregation and I ran across this forum. I had no idea this has been going on and for so many years. My father always said God is not impressed with numbers, man IS! He showed me in the bible where it states "Broad is the way that leadeth to destruction and many be which go in there at". Matt. 7:13-15. Also, Matt. 15:9 which says "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men".
It seems the bigger the church becomes the more we will allow the devil to come in the body of Christ in sheeps clothing teaching the commandments of men.

This is our salvation that is on the line. That is very serious to me. I will not stand by and just be silent. We must stand up for God's word. God says if we know better we must do better. God expects us to stand up for him.

So my hats off to all those who took part in the 25 Theses and anyone who is taking a stand for his name sake!

Ken, although you are all over the place and very long winded. I since a real love for God's word in your comments and know that you are only trying to defend it. Thank You.

"If God be for us, who can be against us?" Romans 8:31
God Bless you
Your sister in Christ


 
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HD

68.184.179.244

You have to be kidding...

May 3 2004, 10:28 PM 

Don't you guys have anything better to do with your time? Your ranting and raving is ludicrous. You are not contending for the faith, but merely clinging to the traditions of men. If you are so concerned about the lost, why don't you go out and witness to some of them instead of spending so much time on this Internet site ranting and raving about NRH COC.

I do not attend there, but have great respect for the ministry they are involved in. Get a life...PLEASE!!!

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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