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She who laughs

168.12.253.66

Jesus was the ultimate LIBERAL

December 3 2004, 11:02 AM 

I found this site quite by accident while search for information about a childhood friend by the last name of Atchley. I have to admit that I was both appalled and humored by all the rants here.
I find myself thinking the same thing my teenaged son questioned me about recently. Why would ANYONE want to believe in a God that is presented as such an JERK?!
I sure don't. I'm not saying I don't believe there is a God. But you have to admit that God himself would or should disapprove of such a judgemental, insecure and dismissive entity. I prefer to believe in a God of Love.
I find it humorous that so many fundamentalist Christians act in just the opposite way that the bible teaches --- I find many "devout Christians" to be the most hate filled, venomous, judmental and angry people I've ever met. Its so sad.
Am I getting this right -- alot of this is over MUSIC? Hysterical! :-P
Geez -- yall SCARE me!
There are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many more ways you could spend your time that would help other people.....

 
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Royce Ogle

24.243.162.132

Who is really behind "Concerned Members"?

June 22 2006, 9:14 AM 

Gal 5 13 "For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”[b] 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!
Walking in the Spirit

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[c] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[d] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another."

It isn't too difficult for even the beginning Bible student to apply this text from Gal 5 to the posts on this site and make an imformed decision as to who is more likely walking in the Spirit and who is not.

The reason Mr. Sublett must use so much extrabiblical resourses to support his theories is that the Bible alone does not. I have read many, many of your posts Mr. Sublett and I have not seen even a hint of love for those whith whom you disagree. If you don't love your brother you don't love God! That is not my words, its God's word.

Royce Ogle
Monroe, LA

 
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Ken Sublett

4.152.174.141

Re: Who is really behind "Concerned Members"?

July 6 2006, 3:12 PM 

Those BEHIND Concerned Members are those who have had their CHURCH HOME stolen by false preachers and MUSICIANS. They boast about infiltrating and diverting to turn YOUR property into a THEATER FOR HOLY ENTERTAINMENT.

All of this flowed out of the Vineyard, aka New Wineskin religion, and all of the PRO instrumental band of men have already identified themselves in favor of TEAMS and INSTRUMENTS. They are all Biblically and terminally ignorant or terminally EVIL. They believe that TRUTH got zapped away and "we gonna partner with God to work out a new set." They don't hesitate to tell you that they have a HIGHER USE for your property and JUST steal it and drive away half of the members. What is behind it is to give ALL religious groups a place to share information and get BIBLICAL help to defeat the FALSE TEACHERS. I am an old and tired retired Engineer who got pissed off by all of the people "stealing the church houses of widows."

Jesus commanded that worship be in the SPIRIT: that means in the Mind where we are commanded to speak with ONE MIND and ONE MOUTH using that which is written or Scripture to Educate, glorify God and keep the peace.

Paul said that the Jewish converts now worship in the PLACE of the spirit or mind because outside there be homosexual lovers:

Ph 3:1 FINALLY, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.

Ph 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
    Kuon (g2965) koo'-ohn; a prim. word; a dog ["hound"] (lit. or fig.): - dog.

    Re.22:15 For without are DOGS, and SORCERERS, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Paul commanded the word SPEAK which can never mean SING much less MAKE MUSIC. We know from all of that HISTORY that no one dared to ADD singing as an ACT of worship for almost 400 years.

The word SPEAK in the ekklesia or synagogue meant "in a whisper or conversational tone." The Latin SERMO means the same thing. Those who performed as speakers, singers or musicians were identified by jesus as the SECT of the HYPOCTES by point to prophecy.

Another word for SPEAK is LOGIKOS which is the OPPOSITE OF MOUSIKE.

That is because the MUSES created mental excitement Jesus died to outlaw and Paul outlawed for the SYNAGOGUE or school of the Bible in Rom. 15.

Mousikos delicate, hêdion; harmonious [in tune], fitting, Delicate Malakos path-êtikos d. = pathêtikos, e. of music, soft, effeminate, m. harmoniai

The Patheticos were the MALE prostitutes who were the ONLY male musicians. The Word Music speaks of the MUSES who were the MUSICAL TEAM for the Babylon Whore end-time religion. John said that the musicians performed SORCERY by which they deceived the nations. There CANDLES were removed and if you believe the Biblical examples and The Book of Enoch affirmed by Jude, they have fallen and they will never be restored to the WORD.

I hope that you understand that Jesus CAST OUT the musical minstrels using a word meaning LIKE DUNG.

mousikê (sc. technê), hê, any art over which the Muses presided, esp. poetry sung to music,

Mousikos (g3451) moo-sik-os'; from Moåusa , (a Muse); "musical", i.e. (as noun) a minstrel: - musician

Rev 18:22 The music of harpists and musicians, flute players and trumpeters, will never be heard in you again. No workman of any trade will ever be found in you again. The sound of a millstone will never be heard in you again.


These were the concision or dogs or SORCERERS. They were the emasculated priests of the Mother Goddess (Zoe, Eve, etc)

Gal 5:12 As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

Iamblichus wrote

11. This is probably an allusion to the mutilations practiced at Rites like the orgies of the Great Mother [ZOE>. Similar suspensions of sensibility are reported in cases of burning alive and the tortures inflicted upon religious devotees. The enthusiasm or mental ecstasy overcomes the corporeal sensation.

Where then are those who dare to mutilate themselves; seeing that they draw down the Apostolic curse, and accuse the workmanship of God, and take part with the Manichees? ... But if you will not allow this, why do you not mutilate the tongue for blasphemy, the hands for rapine, the feet for their evil courses, in short, the whole body?

For the ear enchanted by the sound of a flute hath often enervated the soul; and the perception of a sweet perfume by the nostrils hath bewitched the mind, and made it frantic for pleasure.


The LADED BURDEN Jesus died to remove was "spiritual anxiety created by religious rituals." The word REST or PAUO is dedicated to saying: "Stop the the singing, stop the instruments, stop the PANIC" which all musical noises created.

Therefore, the LIBERTY Jesus died to give us is LIBERATION FROM the musical performers who, like the Scribes, would write you a song or some better SCRIPTURE, the Pharisees who changed the LAWS so they could rob widows, and the HYPOCRITES. This was a SECTARIAN wing and Jesus identified them as SINGERS and MUSICIANS in Ezekiel 33.

For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh [human passions], but by love serve one another. Gal 5:13

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. Gal 5:14


No one can LOVE anyone in a spiritual sense and MAKE MUSIC bleed off the worship for themselves--and get paid to. ALL known recorded history MARKS them as prostitutes or if male, either DRUNK or PERVERTS.

WRONG KIND OF LOVE. Motive? No income from this. I began bu searching MOST of the world's literature on music and religion and the MUSIC -- RELIGION -- SEXUALITY them cannot be disputed. I quote extra Biblical literature to prove to you that there is NO EXCEPTION in recorded history to what the Bible says about MUSIC as having arrived with Lucifer as the "singing and harp playing prostitute" in the garden of Eden.

Furthermore, I quote ALL known resources to prove that the PhDuhs promoting music as just flat liars. For the literate among us some of us just enjoying anything above out belly button.

MUSIC is pagan prostitute religion and NO ONE can find any exception.

 
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Brian Gibson

71.11.232.82

Winds of Change

July 18 2006, 8:49 PM 



I have to say, to some extent I agree with you about the change agents. The motive in many cases is arrogance. Going into a church and and changing its culture is divisive and pointless. The point of a community of faith is to support and love each other and worship God. Not try out the lastest workshop church growth theories.

I have attended Richland Hills for a long time. They do lots of good things. They do lots of silly unnecessary things as well. But that is what it is to be human. We are all imperfect and fallible, even when we believe the book we base our faith on isn't.

I don't know what to say to people like you Mr. Sublett. I grew up with in a household that believes like you. I parted ways with them because I could no longer find meaning in it. I think a majority of younger people like myself feel the same way. Your way of belief is dying out, just as the culture that created it is. The good news for you, if you choose to see it this way, is the Baby boomer inspired consumer church phenom is on its way out as well. Mark my words, another generation or so, the huge temples of excess that mark the suburban landscape will be empty. Lucado, Shelby, Cope and the like will be footnotes in history, replaced by the next big thing.

Brian

 
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Erin Gabel

76.186.176.253

Fact or Opinion?

September 28 2007, 2:04 PM 

From a loving and very concerned sister in Christ, greetings to all who may read this. May God bless you with understanding and peace.

First, let me say that I do fully understand and sympathize with anyone who believes that their church is turning away from Christ. An occurence of that sort would be truly tragic.

Now, this message is not really a response to the above, but I didn't know how to post any other way. This message is for all of the people who will read this website and be confused by the apparent lack of Christianity dispayed by some of the "Christians" on this page, especially the unbelievers.

For the record, the responder who noted several Biblical examples of musical worship including instruments was completely accurate. If you read anywhere on this site something that conflicts, please email me and I will be happy to provide you (free of charge) with a copy of the Bible so that you can read and determine for yourself where the truth really lies. The best way to clear up differences of this sort is simply to study the Bible for yourself, and not just take other people's word for it. David sang and played his instrument before the Lord. Not only was the Lord pleased, he took care to make sure that David's psalms ("songs") are included in the Bible. David was also described many times as being a man after God's own heart. Please read for yourself and judge the truth.

The decision not to use a piano (the original debated instrument) in the south was the direct result of lower income. It does not now, nor has it ever, had anything to do with Biblical principles or doctrine, no matter what anyone else says. The "decision" not to use a piano (now any instrument) has become a sore point, usually among elderly members of any given congregation. Our own church is going through this debate currently, but our elders have decided to attempt to maintain the unity of the body by declining instruments at this time. For their reasoning, please read the book of Romans in the Bible, especially the part about the stronger and weaker brother. The gist of it is that the stronger brother is called not to tempt the weaker brother with something that might challenge his faith. The stronger brother, instead, should study with the weaker brother until he comes to a stronger faith by a fuller understanding of scripture and God's will.

Moving right along, regretfully, it was a prevalent belief among many churches of Christ in previous years that members of the named "church of Christ" were the only people on earth, throughout time, eligible of going to heaven. This also promoted the name "the One True Church," and many churches of Christ still find it difficult to attract new members because of this arrogant presumption. Thankfully, if you are interested in finding a loving and accepting church of Christ today, you will probably have more success than you may be led to believe by the loud-voiced denunciations of certain few members. We members who agree with Jesus that ALL PEOPLE are desired by God have been trying for years to stamp out that nasty distinction we inherited from our older relatives. I personally believe that it is not for me, or anyone, to claim to know the mind of God. The only thing I know is that if God is willing to love me, a dreadful sinnner, I am absolutely certain that He is willing to love everyone else as well. It is not for us to judge, and many churches of Christ are coming around on this point.

Please don't believe that all Christians routinely research satanic rituals and demonic language the way Ken seems to have done. We do not all use that kind of language in reference to things or people we don't happen to care for. The correct mode of confronting a brother who sins against you is detailed in the Bible. This kind of evil language is not, and should never be, prevalent in the church.

Also, note that when I use the term "the church," I am referring to any body of believers in Christ, not specifically the church of Christ, which is just one of many denominations. I am personally a member of the church of Christ because I believe that our particular church follows closely the teachings of the Bible. As mentioned in another post, churches of Christ are not affiliated with each other. (for example, we don't have popes or bishops, we don't report to any type of governing body or organization)

Finally, just let me say one last thing about division in the church. If you read these posts all the way through, as I just have, you may be struck by the notion that the people attempting the reform sound to be, for the most part, very angry. I do not presume to know the minds of all 19 people signatory to that list; however, I would judge that if a person sounds angry and resentful, then they probably are angry and resentful. Ken has stated more than once that his church was "stolen" by people he describes in various unflattering ways. He is absolutely right! In a way, his church was stolen, but not in the way he represents. He disagreed with the decisions of the elders, forgetting apparently that Jesus called us to pray for and submit to those in authority; and he decided to do something about it, something hateful and cruel. I noticed also that the more responses came in against him, the more agitated he apparently became. You'll need to understand how passionate church members can become in their disagreements, and if you don't currently attend church, please don't let this stop you. When we believe something wholeheartedly, as Ken does, we often become irrational and will defend our opinion long past the point at which it has been proven false. In several years, when he goes back and reads over his comments, I am sure that he will feel acutely embarrased for using such hateful, even demonic, language about his brothers and sisters in Christ. Just in case my email address doesn't appear here, you may contact me personally with any questions, especially requests for Bibles, at janderin@sbcglobal.net.

To those at the Richland Hills church, please accept my condolences for the rift in your body. We are currently trying to prevent a smaller rift, and even that effort is extremely painful. It is my hope and prayer that God will sustain you and your leaders in courage and faith during this hard time.

Grace and peace be with you,
Erin

 
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Todd Atnip

72.254.14.65

If you have always been blind, do you know you are?

November 6 2007, 12:06 AM 

Ken,

All I can say is WOW! I have been reading your posts for a few years now and I have to say I have enjoyed them very much. Don't misunderstand, I think you are completely sincere in your arguments and you make them sound substantial in that "stream of consciousness" style of writing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stream_of_consciousness_writing) you tend to employ most of the time. In all seriousness, I'm not going to try and change your position on what you believe about instrumental music. Quite the contrary. I will publicly defend your right to believe what you believe based on Romans 14; just as I would defend Rick Atchley's right to believe what he believes based on the same passage. That passage coupled with 1 Cor. 8 and 10 work together to make that case in Paul's teachings. But where I do take issue with you and others is that it appears you have sold out love for knowledge with the things you write and promote. (see 1 Cor. 8:1). That is indeed very dangerous ground to tread on. On some level, your points sound good. There is just one problem and it is the same problem that most "scholars" have failed to acknowledge throughout history - making a good argument does not necessitate correctness! Paul understood this and called it out literally as a warning to the Colossians in the first 4 verses of chapter 2 when the heresey of gnosticism infiltrated the church. It was a very effective technique. "If it sounds that good, it must be correct." Not according to Paul.

Sincerely,

Todd A. Atnip
Bowling Green, KY

 
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Hamooki

70.129.131.180

Change Agents

May 2 2008, 11:05 AM 

There is a problem with the church when the people therein are weak minded enough to accept anything that comes down the road as the truth. The bible speaks of false prophets constantly.

2 Peter 2:1 "But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves."

I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but a biblically grounded person is SUSPICIOUS! The world has to conform to Christ, he is not their cosmic bellhop. Satan rails against the church (some of you really don't believe that) and God's people. Christianity is not for inclusion of everyone or everything, rather it's for exclusion. We are to be in the world, but not of the world and not it seems that so many of us just long for worldy approval, bending over backwards to get it.

Matt 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

As far as music, I won't comment on that, but how about this: The Ecumenical Movement. I'm hearing Church of Christ preachers (a few) now holding up catholics (bishops, the pope) as if they are the same as us. They do it by reading their quotes or lauding their behavior in some way (mother theresa - so called). This is a cult with multiple sex abuse charges against it. The Ecumenical Movement endpoint brings all religions together and nothing is really right or wrong as long as you don't do things that will get you put in jail. So if you fornicate, are totally self-serving or refuse to take responsibility for anything, that's OK. It's a process of defusing Christianity slowly, taking out the salt and any real beliefs and at the end we are not different than anyone else. So which way are we going as a church here?









 
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Ken Sublett

69.19.14.36

Review of Ronnie Norman dittoing Rick Atchley.

May 11 2008, 8:53 PM 

With all due respect I can find no evidence that most preachers using Romans 14 and STRETCHING it have any knowledge about the background to the conflict between the church and the CULTURE." Certain MORAL practices such as one's DIET which distinguished them in the marketplace and their observance of certain days did not disqualify them from friendship and ekklesia (church) attendance. After all, a true Church of Christ is an ekklesia, synagogue or school of the Bible--only--and with the Campbells this narrow definition allowed people of all PREFERENCES to attend.

However, beyond the MORAL and ETHICAL preferences, all of the sects in Rome were superstitious and highly addicted to "worship" where female (or effeminate) musicians aroused themselves and the "audience" to such a high pitch of sexual impulses" that it contributed to the destruction of society: this led the Roman Government to restrict the size of the assemblies and to daylight hours. They sold this musical enchantment John called sorcery as proof that they deserved the pay for bringing the gods down.

None of the worship PREFERENCES were allowed to "open a peep" when they came to the ekklesia for instruction in the Bible in order to make their weak faith stronger. To think that Romans 14 is the authority to DESTROY the peace and let the DOUBTFUL DISPUTERS take over the church seems truly beyond redemption.

After listening to Ronnie Norman's sermon I have posted a further review of Romans 14 to include some background.

http://www.piney.com/Norman.Romans.14.html

Rather than accepting the assistance of the musical minstrel PREFERENCE He tossed them out "more or less violently" as one ejects dung. He consigned these same Dionysiacs part of the Abomination of Desolation as pipers, singers and dancers BACK to the marketplace where all pollutions belonged. The claim to be Market Driving is troubling. I will clean up these notes in time but I just heard the sermon yesterday.







 
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Ken Sublett

67.142.130.33

Has the frog boiled?

August 5 2008, 7:00 PM 

I hate to tell you that I told you so but you must remember that the conceiving to deceive went through the 'worship team' and the DEACONESS change which was a programmed effort to dissociate you. That makes it easier to slip in the heresy of instrumental "worship."

I hear that you have GROWN SO MUCH from instruments that you are going to USE them on Sunday. Well, surprise, surprise, surprise. Well from the boasted of 6,400 to the somewhere around 4,500 before the deaconess infusion to around 3,500 AFTER the Sabbath worship and it looks like it has never recovered to the PRE LEAP PATTERNISM.

I think that Rick as a confessed congenital Christian Churcher would impose instruments even if the attendance went to 1,000 as long as the finances kept up the institute. Here is some of the confessed madness at Madison showing that they BOAST of the DIVERSION which is universally fueled by instrumental LUST. As long as the members continue to live ignorant of the Word of God and get fleced by the Law of Tighing and giving, Satan wins and YOU LOOSE.







 
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captainc

75.163.141.230

Both/And Again...

August 7 2008, 12:34 PM 

...naturally RH is moving to a Sun. AM "instrumental" service. Serves as another reminder of R. Atchley's misrepresentation of OT references and history by stating God "commanded" instrumental praise and later prophesied into the NT. With much displeasure my parents have recently relocated to the DFW area to be closer to grandchildren and, of course, this is the "congregation" they've chosen to attend.

 
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Mark Colby

75.163.141.230

Any surprise?...

August 7 2008, 6:43 PM 

...that RH will have Sun. Am "instrumental" service. Was there several weeks ago & noted dimming of lights and varying colors during LS. Am amazed that so many are buying in to R. Atchley's misapplication of OT references and history to justify IM in their assemblies. This concept of "both/and" seems very catchy. My parents have recently relocated to DFW to be closer to grandchildren...with dismay RH is the congregation they have chosen.

 
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Tom Brite

24.206.97.50

Re: Any surprise?...

August 13 2008, 6:11 AM 

If things hold true to form from other congregations who have done this, the reward for those that have built Richland Hills will be that the non-instrumental service will be the most inconvenient time to attend. It will be early in the morning, with the instruments being given the "prime" time of the later service.

 
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Bob Davies

66.196.248.34

inconvenient time?

September 10 2008, 5:43 PM 

Yes, I can tell 9:00 is a VERY inconvenient time to attend.....

 
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Tom

24.206.97.50

Re: inconvenient time?

September 13 2008, 10:22 AM 

Wait until a third service is added and the non-instrumental service is at 8 or 8:30 a.m.

 
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Jacob

199.27.129.130

hey

March 18 2011, 7:13 AM 

The 25 thesis posted on Richland hills door is stupid

Freaking grow up and love God more than your unbiblical judgmental doctrine

You're a bunch of Pharisees

 
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Ken Sublett

199.27.128.82

Not related to the thesis

March 18 2011, 9:26 AM 

Peter made it clear that the WORD for faith and practice is the PROPHETS by the Spirit OF Chris and the Prophecies made more perfect by Jesus Christ. Peter says that this "memory" left for us is not subject to private interpretation or "further expounding."

The FOUNDATION being used to "cast people out of their own synagogue" is the Levites who made noise and never music. Rick's 2 Chronicles 29 message he got from "a" spirit was ONLY during the burning of the GOATS (capella) for a plague-stopping exorcism. Christ in all of the prophets says that God DID NOT commande the king, kingdom, temple, animal sacrifices or the Warrior Levites cursed by Jacob in

Genesis 49.

Jesus calls Scribe and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES by naming mercinary speakers, singers and instrument players: A hypocrite is anyone who CLAIMS the power to "further expound" the Word of Christ.

hupokrinomai 1 2 3 later also aor1 and perf. pass. in mid. sense
I. to reply, make answer, answer, Hom., Hdt. responsive singing
2. to expound, interpret, explain, Od., Ar.:the attic word in this sense is apo-krinomai.
II. of actors, to answer on the stage: hence to play a part, tn Antigonn hupokekritai Dem.; hup. to basilikon to take the king's part, Arist.; hupokr. tragdian, kmdian to play a tragedy, a comedy, id=Arist.; absol. to play a part, be an actor, id=Arist.
2. to represent dramatically: hence to exaggerate, Dem.
3. metaph. to play a part, to feign, pretend, c. inf., id=Dem.


[linked image]
[linked image]


A person PRESUMING to further expound the Word of God in Christ in song or sermon IS THE JUDGE:

krin0 i_ separate, put asunder, distinguish
5. expound, interpret in a particular way, to enupnion taut ekrinan Hdt. 1.120, cf. 7.19, A.Pr.485, etc.:in Med., ho gern ekrinat' oneirous Il. 5.150. Sophon
II. of things, cleverly devised, wise, nomos [man made laws: Legalism]


Jesus said that God HIDES HIMSELF from the WISE: THE SOPHON OR WISE ARE.

sophos , , on,
A. skilled in any handicraft or art, clever Margites Fr.2; but in this sense mostly of poets and musicians, Pi.O.1.9, P.1.42, 3.113; en kithara s. E.IT1238 (lyr.), cf. Ar.Ra.896 (lyr.), etc.; tn tekhnn -teros ib.766; peri ti Pl.Lg.696c; glss s. S.Fr.88.10; also en oinois, kithara, E. IT662, 1238 (lyr.);


All of those SECTARIANS imposing instruments into a peaceable church knowing that they will sow discord and force up to half of the OWNERS out of their own synagogue are those who are HATED by God.

Question: do you affirm before God and man that it is acceptable to lie about all of the "instrument" passages when he DOES NOT KNOW or care about the context to deliberately sow massive discord around the world is SOMETHING WE MUST ACCEPT WITHOUT trying to teach those taken captive when there are no preachers who know WHY God connected instruments with the Devil and the effeminate?

Jesus CAST OUT the musical minstrels "like dung" and defined HELL as a place prepared for those who deny the WORDS of Christ in the Prophets and Apostles and substitute MYTHOS which is dogma or that which comes out of their "imagination of man which is only evil continually."

GOD HIDES HIMSELF FROM THE SOPHISTS: makers of songs, sermons and player of instrument: Christ in Isaiah 30 shows that the MARK in sight and sound of God driving His enemies into hell is "wind, string and percussion instruments." If I didn't warn against those eternal enemies who HAD deceived the world then their blood would be on my hands.








 
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Ken Sublett

199.27.128.82

Not related to the thesis

March 18 2011, 9:26 AM 

Peter made it clear that the WORD for faith and practice is the PROPHETS by the Spirit OF Chris and the Prophecies made more perfect by Jesus Christ. Peter says that this "memory" left for us is not subject to private interpretation or "further expounding."

The FOUNDATION being used to "cast people out of their own synagogue" is the Levites who made noise and never music. Rick's 2 Chronicles 29 message he got from "a" spirit was ONLY during the burning of the GOATS (capella) for a plague-stopping exorcism. Christ in all of the prophets says that God DID NOT commande the king, kingdom, temple, animal sacrifices or the Warrior Levites cursed by Jacob in

Genesis 49.

Jesus calls Scribe and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES by naming mercinary speakers, singers and instrument players: A hypocrite is anyone who CLAIMS the power to "further expound" the Word of Christ.

hupokrinomai 1 2 3 later also aor1 and perf. pass. in mid. sense
I. to reply, make answer, answer, Hom., Hdt. responsive singing
2. to expound, interpret, explain, Od., Ar.:the attic word in this sense is apo-krinomai.
II. of actors, to answer on the stage: hence to play a part, tn Antigonn hupokekritai Dem.; hup. to basilikon to take the king's part, Arist.; hupokr. tragdian, kmdian to play a tragedy, a comedy, id=Arist.; absol. to play a part, be an actor, id=Arist.
2. to represent dramatically: hence to exaggerate, Dem.
3. metaph. to play a part, to feign, pretend, c. inf., id=Dem.


[linked image]
[linked image]


A person PRESUMING to further expound the Word of God in Christ in song or sermon IS THE JUDGE:

krin0 i_ separate, put asunder, distinguish
5. expound, interpret in a particular way, to enupnion taut ekrinan Hdt. 1.120, cf. 7.19, A.Pr.485, etc.:in Med., ho gern ekrinat' oneirous Il. 5.150. Sophon
II. of things, cleverly devised, wise, nomos [man made laws: Legalism]


Jesus said that God HIDES HIMSELF from the WISE: THE SOPHON OR WISE ARE.

sophos , , on,
A. skilled in any handicraft or art, clever Margites Fr.2; but in this sense mostly of poets and musicians, Pi.O.1.9, P.1.42, 3.113; en kithara s. E.IT1238 (lyr.), cf. Ar.Ra.896 (lyr.), etc.; tn tekhnn -teros ib.766; peri ti Pl.Lg.696c; glss s. S.Fr.88.10; also en oinois, kithara, E. IT662, 1238 (lyr.);


All of those SECTARIANS imposing instruments into a peaceable church knowing that they will sow discord and force up to half of the OWNERS out of their own synagogue are those who are HATED by God.

Question: do you affirm before God and man that it is acceptable to lie about all of the "instrument" passages when he DOES NOT KNOW or care about the context to deliberately sow massive discord around the world is SOMETHING WE MUST ACCEPT WITHOUT trying to teach those taken captive when there are no preachers who know WHY God connected instruments with the Devil and the effeminate?

Jesus CAST OUT the musical minstrels "like dung" and defined HELL as a place prepared for those who deny the WORDS of Christ in the Prophets and Apostles and substitute MYTHOS which is dogma or that which comes out of their "imagination of man which is only evil continually."

GOD HIDES HIMSELF FROM THE SOPHISTS: makers of songs, sermons and player of instrument: Christ in Isaiah 30 shows that the MARK in sight and sound of God driving His enemies into hell is "wind, string and percussion instruments." If I didn't warn against those eternal enemies who HAD deceived the world then their blood would be on my hands.








 
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Ken Sublet

67.142.130.23

The PATTERNISM of Demonism

April 6 2011, 8:47 PM 

The PATTERNISM among the "scholars" promoting musical instruments in the church is clearly derived from the Monarchy which has been turned over to worship the starry host." 2 Chronicles 29 is a message from "the spirit" commanding them to perform INSTRUMENTAL PRAISE and even threatening people who do not obey. They are deliberately leading their enablers into what Paul called DEMON or DEVIL worship.

Jeremiah 7:21 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.
Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
Jeremiah 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying,
....Obey my voice, and I will be your God,
....and ye shall be my people:
....and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you,
....that it may be well unto you.
Jeremiah 7:24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear,
....but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart,
....and went backward, and not forward.
Jeremiah 7:25 Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day
....I have even sent unto you all my servants the prophets,
....daily rising up early and sending them:
Jeremiah 7:26 Yet they hearkened not unto me, nor inclined their ear,
.... but hardened their neck: they did worse than their fathers.
Jeremiah 7:27 Therefore thou shalt speak all these words unto them;
....but they will not hearken to thee
.... thou shalt also call unto them; but they will not answer thee.
Jeremiah 7:28 But thou shalt say unto them,
....This is a nation that obeyeth not the voice of the LORD their God,
....nor receiveth correction:
....truth is perished, and is cut off from their mouth.

The Iamblichus

Of such a character are some of the animals of Egypt, and in the same manner, the human being everywhere is sacred.12 Some of the consecrated victims, however, make the familiar relationship more conspicuous, so far as they affect the analysis in respect to the kindred and more sacred origin of the primitive elements with the Superior (divine) causes. This being accomplished, the benefits which are imparted from it are more perfect.
12. In other words, likely to be a victim at the altar. "As Manetho related, they were used in archaic times to burn living men in the city of Ilithyia, styling them Typhonian." Ashmes, who expelled the Hyk-sos rulers, put an end to the custom. It existed in Asiatic countries,where Semitic worships existed, and even the Hebrews seem not to have been an exception
14. Porphyry and others of the philosophers of that period declared distinctly that the sacrifices of living creatures were not for the gods at all, but for daemons and the lower orders of spiritual essences. Indeed, their sentiments were considered as evidence of a hostility to Judaism. In archaic times, and even in many centuries of the historical period, human victims were immolated, and the Hebrew writings seem to recognize the custom (Leviticus xxvii, 28, 29; Judges xi, 30-40; Micah, vi, 7). Plutarch denounced this practice, and declared his belief that there was never a god that required it, but it was only intended to avert and appease the malice and rancor of evil spirits. The slaughter of hogs at the festivals of Adonis, Osiris and Demites seems to have been of the latter character, as swine were abhorred in Oriental countries.
Paul in 1 Corinthians 10 refers to the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai and says:

1Corinthians 10:18 Behold Israel after the flesh:
....are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?
1Corinthians 10:19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing,
....or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
1Corinthians 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice,
....they sacrifice to devils, and not to God:
....and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.


In Hebrews 13 He writes:

Hebrews 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.
....For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats,
....which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
Hebrews 13:10 We have an altar,
.... whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.
Hebrews 13:11 For the bodies of those beasts,
....whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin,
....are burned without the camp.
Hebrews 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood,
....suffered without the gate.
Hebrews 13:13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.
Hebrews 13:14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.
Hebrews 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually,
....that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.


The "Scholars" believe the Word is silent!

If you are following the PATTERNISM of the sacrificial system you ARE worshiping Demons and you believe the music will appease them. Not so: you are just in a holding pattern.


 
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Ken Sublet

67.142.130.41

2 Chronicles 33 proves that Ch 33 connects instruments to witchcraft.

April 8 2011, 8:52 PM 

2 Chronicles 33 proves that Instrumental Music patterned by 2 Chronicles 29 is universally understood to be witchcraft or sorcery. The testimony ends with Revelation 17 and the Babylon mother of harlots using the lusted after "fruits" in Revelation 18 as speakers, singers and instrument players. John says that the hypocritic operatives trying to defeat Jesus and His Word HAD deceived the whole world. They have been unleashed by Apollo (Abaddon, Apollyon) as SUN WORSHIP in Jerusalem and in a church near you. They Lake of Fire was prepared for anyone using their own imagination and saying that it is the will of God.

The 100% False Teachers using Hezekiah's Reformclaim that the SPIRIT told them that "God commanded instrumental praise and we should not disobey." This falls BETWEEN the pagan, musical rituals of 2 Chronicles 28 and chapter 33 where music is identified as the Worship of the Sun gods (Apollo, Abaddon, Apollyon). The SACRIFICIAL MUSIC was a PLAGUE STOPPING ceremony used to COLLECT the people close to Jerusalem to protect the KING'S hide. The PROOF TEXT false teachers use proves that they have been seduced by the same demonism.

2 Chronicles 28 speaks of the idolatrous worship
......which had polluted the Temple.
2 Chronicles 29 is a plague stopping animal sacrifice.
......God DID NOT command sacrifices OR the instruments.
2 Chronicles has Manassah restoring the Demonish:
......the words for singing and playing instruments proves
......that it was demonism.

http://www.piney.com/2.Chronicles.33.html

If in doubt read Acts 7 which proves that god ABANDONED Israel to worship the starry host because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai.

I have looked up the Greek and Latin words all of which point to the worship of Apollo (Abaddon, Apollyon) in Revelation. John calls the sorcerers who HAD deceived the whole world.

How can you account for a man willing to lie about all of the Bible and recorded history ONLY causing up to 1/2 of the owners to cast themselves out of their synagogue. To be able to fool even half of the people is the meaning of Lying Wonders: it certainly is a sign.

 
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Ken Sublet

67.142.130.33

God hides from the WISE: Jesus does not pray for the WORLD

April 17 2011, 9:51 AM 

The problem on both sides of the issue is that they DENY Christ and are indeed ANTI-Christs and blasphemers by hiding from the fact that Christ defined the future REST in inclusive and exclusive terms. Peter affirms that Jesus Christ led by that same Spirit made the prophecies more certain. As Jesus commanded that "we teach that which HE commanded to be taught," in 2 Peter 1-2 Peter outlawed private interpretations or further expoundings: a MARK of a false teacher is that he does not teach "that which is written for our learning." Christ was EXPLICIT: we are just dumb and dumber.

Luke 11:48 Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers:
......for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres.
Luke 11:49 Therefore also said the WISDOM of God,
......I will send them prophets and apostles,
......and some of them they shall slay and persecute:
Luke 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets,
......which was shed from the foundation of the world,
......may be required of this generation;
Luke 11:51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias,
......which perished between the altar and the temple:
......verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

John 6:44 No man can come to me,
......except the Father which hath sent me draw him:
......and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:45 It is written in the prophets,
......And they shall be all taught of God.
......Every man therefore that hath heard,
......and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Baptism is the MARK or SEAL that one is a Disciple of Christ beginning in the Prophets. By being deliberately ignorant of the Prophets they blasphem the Spirit of Christ by denying that He outlawed all of the performing arts and crafts. They further blaspheme by claiming that their vain and evil imagination is the Spirit person speaking to them. Christ defined them in Jeremiah 23.

......Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:
......and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Romans 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

Ephesians 2:20 And are built
......upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets,
......Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men,
......as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Heb. 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners
......spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb. 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,
......whom he hath appointed heir of all things,
......by whom also he made the worlds;

James 5:10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord,
......for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.

1Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently,
......who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time
......the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify,
......when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves,
......but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you
......by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost
......sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

God the One Father in heaven made Jesus of Nazareth to be both Lord and Christ. When the father "breathed" on Jesus as the Son (Word) it was articulated into audible words. Jesus commanded that we teach that which HE commanded to be taught: if they cannot understand that then it is a MARK that God hides himself from the WISE (Sophists: preachers, singers, players, actors) and Jesus will not PRAY for those of the WORLD:

kosmos , metaph., of ornaments of speech, such as epithets, Id.9.9 (pl.), Arist.Rh.1408a14, Po.1457b2, 1458a33; hadumel k. keladein to sing sweet songs of praise, Pi.O.11 (10).13 (s.v.l.).
Pind. O. 11 My tongue wants to foster such themes; [10] but it is by the gift of a god that a man flourishes with a skillful mind, as with anything else. For the present rest assured, Hagesidamus son of Archestratus: for the sake of your boxing victory,
...... I shall loudly sing a sweet song, an adornment for your garland of golden olive,
...... [15] while I honor the race of the Western Locrians.
There, Muses, join in the victory-song; I shall pledge my word to you that we will find there a race that does not repel the stranger, or is inexperienced in fine deeds, but one that is wise and warlike too.


2Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy;
...... whereunto ye do well that ye take heed,
......as unto a light that shineth in a dark place,
......until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
2Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture
......is of any private interpretation. (further expounding)
2Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:
......but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2Pet. 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets,
......and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

 
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What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

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This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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