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Some Follow up of Richland: Lipscomb University approves of "Hell and Mister Fudge."

November 5 2002 at 5:54 AM
ConcernedMembers 
from IP address 65.80.188.10



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 99.197.222.189 on Aug 27, 2014 4:48 PM
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65.80.188.10

Re: MID-WEEK ALERT

November 6 2002, 8:52 AM 

To Concerned members:
I have read with heightened interest the 25 theses addressed to the Richland Church of Christ. The statement are clear and well thought. David Lipscomb wrote in the first years of the 20th century that division will come to churches of Christ, and he added when divisions come let it be along Bible lines. The first divisions were clearly marked along a multiple dividing line: ORGANIZED MISSIONARY SOCIETIES AND ORGANIZED LOCAL, STATE, AND NATIONAL CONVENTIONS; and the invasion of liberal theology into the colleges and churches popularly known as MODERNISM until the 1950s.

The churches of Christ are again divided as wide as that gulf Jesus talked about. Once again there are multiple dividing lines which separate the churches, and the gulf keeps widening: These dividing lines are clearly marked: POST MODERN THEOLOGY WHERE INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC, YOU NAME IT, AND IT GOES CHURCH GROWTH MODELS SUCH AS WILLOW CREEK; and
others of the "theater of the weird and absurd, e.g., THE THIRD WAVE, KANSAS CITY PROPHETS, and the VINEYARD CHURCHES.

This one is the most important-they say that they are Stone-Campbell Restoration Movement denomination. They have names themselves--SO BE IT!

There is no need to lecture, chide, or moralize with these "know-it-all" brethren. Just leave them, get them out of your churches, don't invite them whatever the disguise. They are after your memberships, and church assets. Shake the dust off your feet and let them be where they choose to be.

Do what David Lipscomb and those around him did. Mark these church dividers. Draw up a census, and separate the sheep from the goats. Don't tear up the wheal to get the tares. Pull out the tares when they show fully what they are. Yes division among the churches is here, and the members of the Biblical churches of Christ have not been the cause in any respect.

Respectfully submitted,

J. E. Choate

 
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163.179.175.91

Thank you

November 14 2002, 9:38 PM 

Brother Choate, it is refreshing to see your response to the 25 Theses. Your thinking is clear, as contrasted to some other responses that do little more than cloud the issues and take up space. As one of the 19 signers of the 25 Theses (and coordinator of it), again I would remind that the purpose was to invite discusson and study with the church leaders so as to come to truth together.

I am informed that the entire document has been read to at least one church assembly, and printed copies have been offered to many who requested it. Some are writing and/or calling and offering to have their names added to the 19 if it could be done somehow. Of course October 31st finalized that original document, but there are other ways to rally to the truths of it.

My heart bleeds to see the sad effects from breaking with the old paths. Again, I thank you and ask you as a righteous man to pray, for we are promised it will avail much. I am your friend and brother, Alvin Jennings

 
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63.84.81.89

Thank You

November 15 2002, 10:10 AM 

I read you loud and clear, brother.

But. We thought that you invited discussion?

I agree that there is total confusion about the MUSIC as WORSHIP issue in the Bible beginning with the sermonizing view which ignores the APPROVED EXAMPLE of Jesus and the direct command of Paul that the RESOURCE for the assembly is NOT "private interpretation of further expounding" but "that which IS WRITTEN, the Spirit of Christ or the Word of Christ" which is Spirit and Life.

We ARE confused that Paul' direct command for the ONE ANOTHER teaching is called TEACHING OR PREACHING and not SANGING FANNY CROSBY. But, the watching world is catching on outside of the influence of Hollywood, Dollywood, Grand Ole Opry and the Vinyard lady riding music for the sexual pleasure and leaving people "confused."

We need to understand that the SCHOLARLY view coming out of Lipscomb's new DOCTOR OF THE LAW concerning Amos 5,6,8 and Isaiah 5 is that "THERE'S NOTHING WRONG" with their worship: they just had a bad mental attitude. And I'll bet that 100% of the "gospel preachers" have that false doctrine in a "sermon outline" or a "gospel tract." The fact is that musical idolatry at Mount Sinai left Israel sentenced to worship the starry host done to perfection according to Amos and leaving the Word- Seekers just confused, captive and dead.

It is also confusing when you try to tell people that the GOPHER WOOD and ADAB AND ABIHU is a LEGALISTIC proof against musical instruments. Why do that when THAT OLDEN BIBLE (if it don't say nothing to me it don't say nothing: an elder) condemnes both SINGING and INSTRUMENTS as a non-spiritual activity and ALWAYS associates it with telling God: "We will not listen to your words." That "outdated" Jew's Bible fairly exudes anti-musical warnings from beginning to end.

Sure the world has been confused but the haze is clearing up and the FRESH WINDS are now blowing but NOT from pulpits and I am sure that is threatening. Sure exposing Biblical concepts which have escaped Restoration history is confusing. But the elders and false preachers will just laugh in your face if you hand them a tract on Gopher Wood and so they should.

Leave the TARES alone if you wish but we are talking about the WOLVES in elder's skins and virtually Biblically illiterate preachers confiscating churches of Christ and turning them into Christian churches. Some of them even laugh about Infiltrating and Diverting. Someone left the flock naked so that they could not recognize the SCAM or did not have the spiritual courage to stop the "little baby steps" learned from Hegel, Hitler and Machiavelli.

It is a fact that once you have been seduced by the charismatic music (with or without instruments) you are never going to kick the tare addiction. But, why preach TOLERANCE for those who are still SOWING serpent's seed into your garden?

There has to be some big time LEARNING in the pulpits and tract racks for leaving the Body of Christ NAKED of truth by violating the APPROVED EXAMPLE of Jesus firing the Doctors of the Law and "tossing out 'more or less violently' the 'musical worship team' trying to appease the demon of the 'dead' girl."

And there has to be some WHOLESALE repenting for turning the direct command of Paul to PREACH OR TEACH the inspired Word (that which is written) into MUSIC and taking the first GIANT STEP by turning church as "a school of the Bible" or in the words of Thomas Campbell "A school of Christ" into a pagan worship center gulping down the New Style Praise Song books. That is an APOSTASY from everything Jesus modelled, Paul's direct command, most early church history, the practice of many churches such as the Reformeds and the intellectual opinion of the 1911 Catholic Encyclopedia.

Aargh! Here comes some "you are anti-christ" mails from preachers.

Ken Sublett.

 
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65.65.8.111

About the 25 Theses

November 21 2002, 3:28 PM 

Dear Alvin,

I didn’t know of your posting of the 25 Theses until my good brother Weldon McKinney and I were lunching together and he told me about it. Upon examining the document, I was concerned for several reasons. The whole tenor of the document seems to be one that will not heal the wounds at church; rather, it seems to me, it will only further exacerbate the situation and be a cause of contention and further hurt to the body of Christ at Richland Hills. I do not think that is what you wish to happen, but I think that will be the result. In the few times that we have been with each other, I have come to regard you as one who has a great desire to win the lost to Jesus. I consider you to have a good heart, and know that you have extended time and treasure to get some things done while you were a member at Richland Hills. The making of the Garden of Prayer is a testimony to that. But to publicly post the 25 Theses as you have with all the accusations contained therein will only take away from the good that you have done.

To state, as you have, that “to appoint both men and women without distinction as ‘special servants’ is without Scripture warrant” is to ignore that there are very good arguments for recognizing that the New Testament church had women deacons. (See my posting of the discussion that I had with Louis Rushmore concerning this.) I know that we will probably never agree on the New Testament evidence, but can’t you admit that there is a possibility that you might be wrong on this subject? I know that it is possible for me to be wrong about this, for I have changed what I previously thought about the subject of women deacons – and I know that I do not have all the answers. Weldon and I have discussed this a few times, and I doubt that either of us will change the other’s mind. But to divide a church over something like this is wrong. I know that you will probably say that it is the elders who are doing such by appointing women as “special servants.” But I think it was not a change of practice, it was only a change of nomenclature. Women were doing the work of “deacons” but they weren’t called “deacons.” And I would hold that every church of Christ that I know of has such women, for the church could not function without them. We have secretaries, Sunday school teachers and supervisors, those who serve in “benevolence” areas, etc. No church is without these women who serve as special servants.

You also state:

"5. We call on you to repent of changing the charter written in 1967 by the original founding elders. You removed, among other things, without the knowledge and consent of the congregation, this concise restrictive clause: "No mechanical instrument of any kind whatsoever shall ever be used in connection with the song service or worship or work to be carried on or conducted by said congregation or religious body". You have dishonored those righteous men and women who made every effort within their power to safeguard future generations from this specific departure from the Bible pattern for New Testament worship. They were aware of the divisive nature of this particular innovation and therefore made specific mention of it in their founding document. "

This, I think, is somewhat misleading. While it is true that the specific clause was removed, it was done in the context of a thorough revision of the charter to bring it into compliance with state and federal laws concerning non-profit organizations. There were a lot of changes and not just with regard to that particular clause. You also failed to note that this particular clause was added (Article 5, Section 6) “A Church of Christ as used in this Article Five is a group or body of two or more believer in Jesus of Nazareth as the Christ, the Son of God, born of a virgin, raised from the dead, and now seated at the right hand of God ruling and reigning over His kingdom, the Church; the members of which group or body have been immersed in water into the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit for the remission of sins. Each such body of believers constitutes a completely autonomous Church of Christ, having no earthly head or headquarters; who believe in the verbal inspiration of the Bible and the miracles recorded therein; to assemble on the first day of every week to honor God and spiritually edify each other by observing the Lord’s Supper; by studying the Bible, by contributing; by praying to God, and by singing songs of praise and edification without the use of mechanical instruments.” It seems obvious to me that the elders of the 1994 revision of the charter were not trying to make it easier to use the instrument in worship.

You indicate that this revision dishonors the “original founding elders” of the 1967 charter. Of the six elders in the 1967 charter, all but two are dead. Of the six, two were my family: my father, and my father-in-law. I cannot claim to speak for all of the elders of the 1967 charter, but I did know them all and the kind of men they were. I think they would be more concerned with those who sow discord among the brethren than the revision of the charter. I do know that when I asked my father about this, he said that he did not feel “dishonored” by what the elders did in 1994.

My roots go deep in the Richland Hills Church of Christ. As a child I met in the Glenview Elementary School with the church before we even had a building to call our own. It has grown through the years because God has given it leaders who were in love with Him. They weren’t perfect; they made mistakes. They did not always agree among themselves, but they were unified in their approach to leading the family at Richland Hills. I think that is what has made it a special place – it has been family. It has accepted people from all over who have been hurting in many different ways, and in it they have found a place to serve God. At Richland Hills we probably have had a wider spectrum of beliefs, practices, and socio-economic backgrounds than any other church of Christ that I know of. What has kept us together has been our love for God and for each other. That’s why we can have people who disagree on so many different things still remain in the one body. We show the world that we love God by loving each other and not insisting on our own way. Alvin, I don’t agree with everything that occurs at Richland Hills. If I were in charge I’m sure that things would be more traditional. (If I were in charge the church would probably end up much smaller :)) I doubt that there is a church anywhere that I would completely endorse its practice and teaching. I suspect that with your even wider experience you could say the same. But I love Richland Hills. I love it with all of its failings, warts and all. It is a great church. But if the time came when the elders thought that what I was teaching or doing was going to be disruptive and harmful to the church, I would not cause trouble, even if I were convinced that I was right and they were wrong. It’s more important to maintain unity than convince a brother that his viewpoint is wrong (Rom. 14). If, for some reason, I could no longer in good conscience continue there I would quietly leave and not cause trouble.

I pray, Alvin, that you will re-examine what you are doing.

In Christian Love,
J. A. Davis

 
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12.35.45.195

Good Reply

January 20 2003, 10:45 AM 

J.A.,
This was a good reply and what the Lord prayed for
in his last recorded prayer before he died for us-That
we be one so the world would know we were his disciples.I too attended Richland Hills coC when you
and I were in school together and it breaks my heart to
see this strife.If you get a chance E-mail me and we can catch up on old times!baron@yahoo.com Bon Hogue

 
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12.215.224.57

Richland Hills Church

January 18 2006, 3:50 PM 

J. A. Davis,
God bless you and all your family... both spiritual and earthly! I remember with great love the gifts of friendship and grace that flowed from the family at RHCC when we attended there in the 80-early 90s. The openness of the classes and the full discussions we had as we all attempted to walk with our Lord. Mary and I pray for the healing of the Family there.
In God's love we remain just Wayne and Mary

 
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205.188.209.134

What is the problem?

March 6 2003, 6:58 PM 

I am not a member at Richland Hills but I heard about
this 25 thesis posted to the door and I was interested
to see what it was all about. It seems looking from
the outside that someone in your group of "concerned
members" has some kind of personal grudge or control
issue. And where is the brotherly love here. All I
see is your group trying to bash this congregation for
no reason that I can read. And what about people out
there reading this who are lost, what will they think
of the church? They will not want to come. Why must
you be so viscious to make a point and I lost the point
early on. Woman have always been servants in the church,
duh!!!! Whether we are called special servants or
whatever, the only name that matters is Christian. And
about the music thing, they used music in early church,
and I thought worship was to be joyous! And all your
bashing about Billy Graham is so uncalled for. He is
a true servant of the Lord and has devoted all his life
to sharing the gospel message. What are you doing for
the kingdom except causing division? How many people
are you sharing the gospel with? Not many since it is
obvious you are all spending your time bashing brothers
and sisters who are only using all means available to
bring the lost in to hear the saving message. It is
easy to criticize when you don't want to actually work
for the kingdom isn't it? Grow up and share the gosel
and stop trying to tear the church down!!!!

 
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63.84.81.114

What is the problem?

March 7 2003, 6:13 PM 

C.G.: whatever, the only name that matters is Christian.

Me: What about a MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAM NAMED Jezebel? Is that ok? No.

Then how about one named HALAL which means to SHINE, BOAST, MAKE SELF VILE as the source of the word LUCIFER? How about one named ZOE after "the Beast and the female instructing principle"?

How about taking the name CHRIST off the church and adding COMMUNITY? Or how about naming your child Fido?
===================================================

C.G.: And about the music thing, they used music in early church, and I thought worship was to be joyous!

ME: That is what the LIERS FOR DOLLARS have told you but Jesus said that "Doctors of the Law take away the key to knowledge." He fired them but they are digging their way out of the earth.

The word "MUSIC" in Greek is SYMPHONIA and speaks of secular affairs with singing, playing, dancing, drinking much like the RISING UP TO PLAY at Mount Sinai which was MUSICAL IDOLATRY.

The word MELODY or PSALLO is not a musical term: it speaks of the warrior bow twangers who could melt your heart or drive you into panic. It derives from "grinding you into a fine powder" like the SOP Jesus fed Judas which caused him to SCOOT.

The word MUSIC is never used of the worship of God's people any time any place under any circumstances. People who LIE about that are agents of an alien power.

The Bible, the Book of Enoch and my 36 collected ancient resources show that Lucifer (Zoe) was a MUSICAL ENCHANTER who caused the fallen angels. He was in the garden of Eden. SHE will be the end-time Bablon whore who was KIRKE who attached her name to CHURCH in John's arena.

The MUSIC was not called such in the slaughter of thousands of animals as a CURSE for the idolatry at Mount Sinai. They made a loud crashing noise and if you could get the sight and sound and SMELL of this slaughter pen you could understand why the priests NEEDED DIVERSION from the horrors.

This SLAUGHTER represented their repudiation of the Spirit of Christ as their king, prince and priest.

Psalm 41 predicts that Judas would try this on Jesus and it was fulfilled when the WARRIOR MUSICIANS mocked Jesus: they "piped" trying to pervert Jesus into the Dionysus song and dance.

However, these SOUNDERS service was "HARD BONDAGE" and they did not WORSHIP. They served in the COURTS and not in the Holy Place. The Holy Place had its sanctity protected by a BODY so that no SINGER OR MUSICIAN could ever enter into the Holy Place as a type of the church or body of Christ.

The only one who MET God was the high priest once a year in the Most Holy Place. The people were IN EXILE from the presence of God. Only BELIEVERS now come boldly before the Throne of God where we worship in the PLACE of the human spirit. No musicians dare try to enter.

There were many INNOVATIONS by both Pharisees and Sadducees and Jesus REPUDIATES each and every one. For instance, it was pagan and polluted superstition which made the MUSICAL MOURING TEAMS believe that they could approach the "gods" on behald of the dead girl or appease the spirit of the dead. Jesus politely invited them outside, they MOCKED HIM something like "speaking in tongues" and they were CAST OUT "more or less violently." The word defines how one CAST OUT DUNG. Just like the carcass and dung was CAST out of the temple area.

No church had any notion of MUSIC as worship because:

1. The Jews had grown up in the Synagogue (never in the temple proper) and understood that it was A SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE. There was never any PRAISE SERVICE in the Synagogue.

2. The Gentiles understood the eternal connection between MUSIC in the pagan temples, adultery and perverted sexuality.

It was not until the fourth century that DIVISION was caused by introducing "music" which was simply chanting the INSPIRED BIBLICAL TEXT rather than obeying Paul and SPEAKING or PREACHING one to another.

All of the church historians associate MUSIC with Satan and repudiate it absolutely. The 1911 Catholic Encyclopedia agrees.

The founders of denominations repudiated music as worship.

MUSIC has been introduced into the church as a planned, deliberate effort to INFILTRATE AND DIVERT churches of Christ into being Christian churches. Perhaps 100% of them were aspiring MUSICIANS riding the widows to bootstrap themselve up into fame and fortune. Or they were BOOK PEDDLERS or wannabes.

All of this is in fulfillment of Apollo or Abaddon or Apollyon's releasing the LOCUSTS. Apollo's MUSES were turned into LOCUSTS in the ancient stories. Throughout the classics the locust or grasshoppers are MUSICAL PERFORMERS who LULL people into a deep sleep. The MUSES are grouped with INSTRUMENTALISTS in Revelation 18 as "ministers" of the Babylon Harlot.

No, sister, LIERS ARE FRYERS if they tell you that MUSIC was EVER used in the worship of a Spirit God. And in paganism, the same AUTHORITY for music is also athority for girl singers as prostitutes and male performers as SODOMITES. THERE IS NO OTHER EVIDENCE.

In fact, in the Bible all musical terms or names of Instruments are connected to the Devil, to polluting or to prostituting. The TRIUMPH over prophesied for Jesus by Judas was the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION in the Jerusalem Temple under the Greeks: The MASCULINE JOURNEY INITIATION was sodomy. There is no other tradition.

If you care one jot I can point you to the largest collection of documents but NOT ONE which will give you authority for MUSIC of any KIND unless you are MARKED by Satan.

The JUDGMENTALISM about Billy Graham began with the LOCUSTS eating up the widow's tithe KNOWING THEY WERE DELICIOUSLY sowing discord by JUDGING that Franklin Graham was OK along with EVERYONE who can say "Jesus."

This is the deliberate use of DISCORD or "Navigating the Winds of Change" derived from Hegel, Hitler or Machiavelli. You deliberately rub dung in the face of people but not to the point of getting fired. Then they WASH IT OFF and you are eternally grateful that you don't have to do it every week. Nevertheless, they have MOVED you from YOUR opinion to worship theirs.

The JUDGMENTALISM about music began with destructive children DELIBERATELY SOWING DISCORD just to pay off the TEMPLE BILL.

Those who OBJECT can be defined as JUDGMENTAL only by those who would shoot you in the heart and condemn you for squirting blood on their dancing slippers.

Ken Sublett

 
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Observer

67.64.105.165

Wow!

June 13 2006, 5:04 PM 

The message of our Lord and Savior does not match up with the volatile hatred that you spew towards a fellow believer in the Lord Jesus. You strain at a gnat and swallow a camel!

 
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72.237.37.106

Sorry... but no...

April 3 2008, 7:46 AM 

Being the biblical language geek that I am, I can't help but point out the problems with this "sermonette."

First: The name Jezebel most likely means "Where's the prince?" Yes, it is tied to the OT character; however, strictly based off of the meaning of the name itself - I don't see a problem with a worship team bearing that name. I'm sure there would be more explanation needed on behalf of the band; that, however, would be another story.

Second: Your translations of the verb HALAL and the noun ZOE are simply wrong. Halal is the Hebrew verb meaning "to praise." Zoe means "life." That's pretty elementary.

This shows your inadequacy in regards to lexical studies of such a simple nature and debases the rest of your argument, really.

These are stupid issues in the end that are of no consequence. What matters is ministry. What matters is loving people. What matters is how the church is addressing issues like the genocide in Darfur. What matters is how the Church is addressing issues like Invisible Children. What matters is how the church needs to address the racism inherent in the American Justice system.

How about we all get over ourselves and start loving our neighbors like Jesus called us to?

 
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72.54.85.249

What's The Problem

August 2 2007, 9:50 AM 

I agree! The problem here is you are dealing with a group of people who have a Pelagian mentality.

 
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12.239.213.201

Request for addresses

January 13 2003, 2:03 PM 

Please send me the mailing addresses for the nineteen people who signed the "25 Theses" article.
Thank You,
jdrain

 
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59.92.127.20

minister

June 17 2011, 8:55 AM 

I know brother J.C.Choate. You are J.E.Choate. Who are you? I wish to know about you. Please pray for our ministry.
God bless you
D.Samuel raj minister
sathy church of christ

 
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Jeff Day

216.201.216.182

Sick

November 6 2002, 6:40 PM 

This is a SICK, last gasp effort. Do the people that posted this actually think something like this will work? Hogwash, I say! It will only serve to alienate and further CAUSE discord. And, yes it causes discord. THere is NO OTHER way to look at it.

And, I am sure that no one saw them anyway. I am sure that the first person to the church took them all down and threw them in the trash where they belong. I am not even a member there and if I were to come to RHCC and see that, I would have taken them down and put this trash where it belongs.

grace and peace.

Jeff

 
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207.190.64.104

Re: Sick

November 17 2002, 4:57 PM 

(I really didn't know where to post this response, so here it is, though it is not completely a direct response to the original message.)

Well, I suppose these 25 theses nailed to the church doors at Richland Hills are supposed to be likened to Luther's 95 theses on the Wittenburg church door. I agree with you, brother, this is a bunch of rubbish and a last ditch effort by the ultra-conservatives in the non-instrumental churches to keep things the way they have always been (which they feel is the only scriptural arrangement). To them, I would say, if you cannot follow the leading of the elders of the Richland Hills Church of Christ, then LEAVE! It really makes no difference whether you or the elders are right. If you cause more trouble in that church, then you are guilty of propogating the discord in the church, and that is a SIN, too! Richland Hills Church of Christ is not YOUR church. You are not the elders, you are not the leaders. If you don't like how things are being done there, then close your Bibles and go to another congregation where you can worship God in peace. Let's face it, the elders are probably not going to change their minds, and obviously you are not either. Don't tear up the church there. Just go where you can be at peace. Richland Hills doesn't belong to you personally. You don't own the church.

Having recognized one of the signers of the so-called 25 theses as being a former Bible instructor of mine at a Church of Christ school, I am a bit surprised that his name is on it. I remember very well hearing him say many times that if someone is not happy in a church with decisions that elders make, then they should leave peacefully. And, you know, I took his advice. I am now a Minister of Worship in a Church of Christ in Wisconsin. Yes, we are a progressive Church of Christ. Yes, we use instruments in worship. Yes we lift our hands in worship. Some of us shout, some say Amen, some clap. And, we have women on our praise team. We have Christmas Eve and Easter worship services, and we even serve communion at those services, whether they are on a Sunday or Tuesday. We are led by qualified elders and a senior minister. We believe the Bible to be true from cover to cover. We still (and always will) practice believer's baptism by immersion for the remission of sin. And do you know what, we don't all agree on many points of doctrine. There are amillenialists, premillenialists, post-millenialists, charismatics, non-charismatics, instrumentalists, non-instrumentalists, former Lutherans, Catholics, Methodists, Mennonites, Amish, and others represented among our ranks. All of these have been bought by the blood of Jesus, and we all have one thing in common - we are SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH (and yes, all of us have been immersed!). Additionally, we have peace. We aren't perfect, but we have peace. And we take seriously our search for truth, but we don't let that search and our own discoveries cloud the issue of what brought us to where we are - the BLOOD OF JESUS! All of the issues that we have serious disagreements over and that we pledge to each other to study vigorously, pale in comparison to the gift that Jesus gave. I am glad that I took my instructor's advice and found a church where I am able to serve the Lord in peace. To that instructor, whom, out of respect and admiration, I have chosen not to name, if he ever reads this post (if this post clears the moderators), let me say, "take your own advice." If you are at Richland Hills and are not happy, leave. Do what you told all of your Bible students to do. If you are not there, I really wish you'd take your name off of that list of signatures. You are doing the church no good by allying yourself with this divisive element.

James D. Kisner

 
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63.84.81.17

Musical Mediators Not Curable By The Great Physician

November 17 2002, 9:12 PM 

THE COMMING CRASH OF LUCIFER RELIGION: A MAJOR COMPONENT OF THE GROSS NATIONAL PRODUCT AND THAT IS WHY THEY FLY FLAGS AS IDOLS. Jesus is the ENSIGN of Christians and Calvin says that the ORGAN is the MARK of Baal.

Sure, the singy-clappy class wants to Hegel them as being a FOOL for standing up for the Word of God! But it is end-time hysteria. They said that Jesus was Baal Zebub or Beliar: the Military Musicians had to IDENTIFY even God Incarnate as the ENEMY before they could try to beat Him to death as the musicians participated in animal sacrifice in their LIKE THE NATION'S TEMPLE.

THE BIBLE FROM BEGINNING TO END ASSOCIATES SINGERS AND MUSICIANS WITH PROSTITUTES TRYING TO SILENCE GOD. WHY WOULD "LEADERS" PICK PERFORMING ARTISTS TO "STAND IN THE HOLY PLACE" CLAIMING TO BE GODS? Is that one of Satan's miracle signs? It was in the book of Genesis and also in the book of Revelation where "RELIGION" is God's way to separate the overwhelming majority of those not able to be disciplined by the Living Word of God. The OLD, largely lost Christianity is A SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE and not a pagan worship center. In the end, it will be so invisibly tiny that you cannot find it: they are SLOWLY SLIPPING AWAY as we write.

As the BABYLON HOLY WHORE PROTOTYPE Inanna got the god of the POWERS drunk and stole them: they included the gift of the eldership, the gift of controlling the gates of hell, the gift of controlling the musical worship teams and the gift of perverted sexuality. That is also the meaning of the ZOE (Eve) concept. As the beginning time and end time harlot Isaiah said:

"Your might and power are gone; they are buried with you. All the pleasant music in your palace has ceased; now maggots are your sheet, worms your blanket! Isa 14:11LIV

"Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy VIOLS: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms (MAGGOTS) cover thee. ISA 14:11KJV

"How art thou FALLEN from heaven, O LUCIFER, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! Isa 14:12

"For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ASCEND into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the STARS of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: Isa 14:13 {or "lead the worshipers into the presence of God.")

"I will ASCEND above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Isa 14:14

"Yet thou shalt be brought down to HELL, to the sides of the pit. Is.14:15

Ezekiel who always associates singing and instruments with treating God like a prostitute reaches back to show us that this is the same Lucifer or Satan who wholly seduced Eve in a sexual way and disqualified her as a spiritual leader because she and male agents can be seduced by feelings:

"Thou hast been in EDEN the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy TABRETS and of thy PIPES was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Eze.28:13

Going back into hell with his VIOLS or HARPS shows that Lucifer as Satan created String, Wind and Percussion instruments. That is why they were used by the LEVITICAL sounders as the TYPE of the musical mockers trying to silence Lord Jesus Christ the Fulfillment of animal sacrifices and the SILENCER of the musical worship teams. When the Jews used MUSIC as worshiping they worshiping Molech and Chiun the "anointed cherubs" now called SATAN.

Satan tried to steal worship from God even in heaven:

"Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Eze.28:14

"Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Eze.28:17

Lucifer's NAME is derived from HALAL or praise as "making a fool of self or making self vile" as part of the musical worship.

As Israel and Judah were prostitute religions worshiping a form of Lucifer because of their musical idolatry, Tyre is treated the same:

"And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre SING as an HARLOT. Isaiah 23:15

"Take an HARP, go about the city, thou HARLOT that hast been forgotten; make sweet MELODY, SING many songs, that thou mayest be remembered. Isaiah 23:16

The word SINGER and PLAYER is intimately tied to female singers and Sodomites which plagued God's faithful.

And Ezekiel speaking of the king of Tyre as Lucifer's agent of music and commerce:

"They will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise; they will break down your walls and demolish your fine houses and throw your stones, timber and rubble into the sea. Ezek 26:12NIV

"I will put an end to your noisy songs, and the music of your harps will be heard no more. Ezek 26:13NIV

The point is that you build a MEGA-TEMPLE to try to FORCE the seed to sprout "SATAN WILL COME" and stealers get their Tower of Babel swept away by someone NAVIGATING A STRONGER WIND.

The LXX is more forceful in showing that both the music and the musicians would be destroyed as at the end according to Revelation 18--

"And he shall destroy the multitude of thy MUSICIANS, and the sound of thy psalteries shall be heard no more." Ezek. 26:13LXX

When I shall bring thee down with them that descend into the pit, with the people of old time, and shall set thee in the low parts of the earth, in places desolate of old, with them that go down to the pit, that thou be not inhabited; and I shall set glory in the land of the living; Ezekiel 26:20

Revelation 18 identifies the end time Musical Worship Prostitute as the same Lucifer or Satan in Ezekiel 26.

"And the fruits that thy soul LUSTED after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all. Revelation 18:14

"And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. Revelation 18:21

The GRINDERS in Hebrew were concubines or prostitutes.

"And the voice of HARPERS, and MUSICIANS, and of PIPERS, and TRUMPETERS, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever CRAFT he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; Revelation 18:22

"And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy SORCERIES were all nations deceived. Revelation 18:23 [The witch of Endor used an old empty wineskin]

According to the Book of Enoch amplified by other ancient documents such as the Book of Jubilees when GOD COMES WITH TEN THOUSAND OF HIS SAINTS He is NOT coming to judge those like the TREE OF LIFE Who always obey God's laws. Rather, He is coming for those who SEDUCED the faithful down into the valley of the CAINITES (Cain = a musical note) from the presence of the Living Word.

Satan was a NAGA or Nachash or musical enchanter in the garden and S/HE will be the musical worship facilitators SILENCING the Word of God for anyone who is BLIND and continues to DIVERT contributions from the poor and restore ancient Judaism including musical worship leaders who MOCKED the TYPE of Lord Jesus Christ. But, not among the Jews nor the VILEST tower of Babel did the musicians EVERY DARE enter into the Holy Place (church) or the Most Holy Place (our spirit where God dwells). We are certainly witnessing a NEW THING ON THE EARTH among an already small remnant not already seduced by Lucifer the musical whore. I hope that it is Satan working miracles!

EXULT and be GLAD: in the ENOCHIAN literature the FALLEN SETHITES who were seduced into mixed-sex choirs, playing musical instruments, "putting on garments" in the clergy sense and initiation with sexual perversion KNEW that they were lost and without redemption. As time grows short in this ancient literature the musical worship AGENTS OF SATAN got more and more desperate to seduce more and more people into replacing the MARK of the Word with the MARK of Satan's music. The fallen Lucifer has his angels or "evangelists and pastors" and if he isn't ignorant he will have filled most pulpits by now right out of a manufacturing plant. I am reading Iron Coffin and Werner, in probably the LAST submarine is still rejoicing and being glad that HE will stop the INVASION of France: so don't let self-satisfaction let you sleep it night: God DOES send strong delusions using strong deluders to march the slaves gayly along into captivity.

Pyramids of program power, firing vocational ministers, new TEMPLES and almost the totality of COMMERCIAL RELIGION will shortly fall into the PIT by its own weight and the music and musicians will fall and there will again be peace for the CHRISTIANS who see "church" as school of the Bible with no Musical Learning Teams. One suspects that the loss of COMMERCIAL RELIGION for the state to RIDE UPON would cause the whole economy to collapse.

Lucifer has undoubtedly fallen again: he is Saturn (666) thrusting in HIS sickle (a musical instrument in Hebrew) who in the Roman model is also Apollo who is Abaddon or Apollyon who ALSO had his seeker center at Delphi where he USED ministers of music, women and other assorted locusts with stings in their tails. The clanging locusts don't eat grass but are SEPARATING those with different MARKS. You cannot LOVE the Word if you don't know that from cover to cover the message is that MUSICAL AGENTS are sent to STEAL THE WORDS OF CHRIST and try to garner the praise due Christ. Jesus spoke in parables to the Lucifer Agents "from the foundation of the world" so that they COULD NOT hear the Word and repent: just as in the Book of Enoch and ALL of the Biblical MUSIC connections.

"The Lord is IN His holy temple, let all believers KEEP SILENCE BEFORE Him" so that the Locusts (clatter like cymbals) can readily identify those with the BEGINING AND END TIME Mark of the Beast (ZOE, the female instructing principle in the ANE, Gnosticism and a church coming to your community.)

If you're happy with your choice, CLAP your hands. [Clap as in driving a tent peg into a sleeping man's head: probably put to sleep by music]. But, the world is RETURNING to Christ by returning to His WORD denounced by your HAPPY MEAL PEDDLARS. Therefore, if not absolutely Biblically illiterate; or if not a foreign agent, everyone knows that the totality of the Bible and history denounces music because it INDUCES A DRUG HIGH in the brain so that you CANNOT ever hear the Words of Christ again.

Judas was INDWELLED as an angel or agent of Satan: the Judas bag was for "carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments." His is always depicted as naked, drunk and playing a flute. The Hebrew Chalal can be "Pollute, prostitute or play the flute." The ONLY promise of REST for the MUSICAL subverters of the Word is that they will REST on a BED OF MAGGOTS with, as at UR, the harp and the buried alive girl harpist at your side. I truly grasp the desparate feeling of a Jubal (Genun) and the seduced Sethites who knew that they were beyond redemption. I know that Max Lucado hopes that lucifer will be redeemed but the Bible repudiates it. I know the hopeless feeling of a Judas whose flute case was a thief's bag. But the Bible holds out no hope for the blind or their leaders who have KNOWN the Word and rejected it (Heb 6 says that this is one unforgivable sin).

Look for the COMING CRASH IN COMMERCIAL RELIGION: history says "don't buy church bonds." And don't steal the money from the poor to TITHE to support "a missionary in residence." Oh! Paul did say in effect: "Fools love to be fooled." Ain't it the truff, Festus?

Ken Sublett

 
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65.71.254.92

Where is the love?

July 17 2003, 11:12 AM 

I read some of your responses...it only took a few...to realize you care more for your attempts at legalism than for love..if it were not so, more would be said in your discourses about Jesus' command to love and more reflective of the fruits of the Spirit..You can be like a Berean without the representation of a Pharisee...here is an expert from Debbie Holland..a fellow lady in Christ..I think all on this forum could utilize this message...I know I needed to hear it..but most importantly..to abide by it..

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Your Questions Answered by The King's High Way
Pain Caused By Other Christians
by Debbie Holland
Q: You talk a lot about the healing of relationships in the King's High Way series. What do you do when all the pain and hurt you receive comes from brothers and sisters in Christ?
...How good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity! It is like precious ointment poured on the head…
Psalm 133:1,2

A: Where there is unity, there is power. To be in agreement and unity with fellow believers is the most peaceful and powerful place for a Christian. United we stand. Divided we fall. Satan is well aware of this principle. He knows that if any two of us on earth agree concerning what we ask, it shall be done for us. And, where two or more are gathered together in Jesus' name, He will be there, also (see Mt 18:19 - 20). Therefore, Satan's desire is to ruin our relationships by sowing strife among us. Because if he can keep us in turmoil with our brothers and sisters in Christ, then he knows we will be vulnerable and lack God's power.

Nothing is more hurtful than to have Christian brothers and sisters turn against us. Matthew 24:12, however, tells us that in the "end times" this is exactly what is going to happen, "the Love (Agape) of many will grow (wax) cold." Christians are the only ones who can have Agape Love. Agape is God "Himself" living inside us, but when we injure one another we block His Love from coming forth.

There are three ways to cope when we've been hurt by someone in the body of Christ: flee, fight, or forgive. If we opt to flee, we will usually end up church hopping, content with none — or even worse, forsaking the assembling of the body altogether and being isolated. If we opt to fight, discord, discontentment and tension become a way of life. But if we choose to forgive, we will be totally putting God first and loving Him. To forgive simply means releasing the other person to God. God will then give us His grace, His Love and His ability to forgive (2 Corinthians 2:10).

As Christians we can be honest with God and say, "I don't want to forgive. I am fearful of what is going to happen. But, more than anything else, I want to follow what You want me to do. So, by faith, I choose to give these negative thoughts to You because I know I have Your authority to say, like Jesus did in Matthew 26:39, ‘Not my will, but Thine.'" Then I can be assured I am a cleansed vessel and God can perform His Will in and through me. I don't have to "feel" my choices; I just have to be willing to make them. God then does the rest. In His timing, He will align my feelings with my choices.

Thus, we are not responsible to change our negative feelings and thoughts. There is no way we can do that! We are only responsible to put in charge the Person who can change our feelings, and that's God. When we are clean, God can flow His Life through us. Because He has forgiven us, we can forgive others. Because He has a forgiving heart, we can have a forgiving heart. We can have a heart like His.

To have a heart like His means to, "Be kind and loving to each other, and forgive each other just as God forgave you in Christ" (Eph 4:32). You might be thinking, "I'm not the guilty one here." And you probably aren't, but neither was Jesus when He died on the Cross for our sins. Jesus tells us that the one who is worthy of being served, serves others. The one who is innocent is the one who makes the gesture. And do you know what happens? More often than not, if the one in the right volunteers to wash the feet of the one in the wrong, both parties get on their knees.

God says we must put away bitterness, wrath and anger (Eph 4:29 - 31) by giving things to Him; and then, we must love our enemies and forgive those who despitefully use us. We can't change the person who has hurt us, but we can change ourselves — deal with our own hurt and anger. If we don't, we are the ones who end up in bondage. Father, open our eyes to see the good in those who need our forgiveness... In the name of Jesus, the Sanctifier.


Debbie Holland
King's High Way Manager

Visit the King's High Way Website




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This article was originally published in the
August 2001 Personal Update NewsJournal.

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Additional Related Resources:

The Way of Agape Textbook - Chuck and Nancy Missler / Paperback
Practical tools enabling us to understand the difference between God’s Love and human love, what it means to love God and how we are to love others as ourselves.

I encourage you to visit www.khouse.org

 
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Joe

152.163.253.3

Hateful message

December 14 2003, 10:35 PM 

Listen to yourself. On and on your message goes, only showing off your ability to arrange words in a hateful format. You need to spend less time spreading harmful messages and more time spreading the loving word of Christ.

Do you really think your extremely long and confusing message will be carefully read by someone you hope to convince of your position. No, noone is going to read that with careful thought. But, I believe your message and many similar ones on this site are a reflection of your hate and perceived abandonement of your Church. You are attempting to show off, nothing more. Only your own kind will marvel at your words. So there are 25 of your admiring one anothers gibberish.

Your group does not like what is happening at Richland Hills. Then form your own Church to worship Christ. Learn to Love one another. Not drive wedges between eachother.



 
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63.84.81.45

Hateful?

December 15 2003, 11:38 AM 

I can tell that you are still a COMPLIMENTARIAN and have not been ASSIMILATED yet.

You should grasp that with postmodernism, WE don't BUILD churches anymore: we STEAL THEM! Ain't that so cute?

And you are still living in the obsolete MODERN or P.M. Era (that is Pre Me). Now, we have a much cuter PARADIGM to replace the old PATTERNISM:

Now we drive PEOPLE between WEDGES. Isn't that louuuvvveeeeingggg?

Take a look at the modern Hostile Takeover in Hohenwald.

http://www.piney.com/Hohenwald.Church.html

Ken, witness to the end times when the Babylon Harlot (music) has already moved in and is separating those with the MARK of the Word and driving them away. At the same time they TAKE CAPTIVE those marked with the MARK of Cain (Cain meaning a "musical note.") to PUNISH them until they make up HUGE CHURCHES more easilty consumed by God as they BURN themselves up with the BREATH of their mouth. Sure, Nimrod and your doctor knows that MUSIC punishes: may bring on premature birth which makes them abortionists.

The Just Jesus or Just Love is Satan's biggest lie.

Ken

 
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T

63.230.60.211

crazy

August 24 2014, 11:51 PM 

This is crazy insane!

 
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163.179.143.71

An Observation

November 19 2002, 5:16 AM 

There is ONE thing that I have noticed since my years in college at Lubbock Christian University from 1968-1972, and that is the liberal minded who plead for tolerance are usually the lest tolerant!

James, you make an excellent point: I concur with your sentiment wholeheartedly. The Richland Hill church of Christ is not mine. Period.

On the other hand it is not the elders or ministers or members who have stayed or members who have left. It IS Christ’s own body—His church.

And whatever takes place; the church IS HIS, even until He chooses to disclaim that body—wherever it may be. Read carefully the seven churches of Asia Minor in John’s Revelation. It is clear, and oh so clear that the church IS HIS.

On elder, preacher, college teacher or most of all myself have been blessed with infallibility. Contenting for the faith once for all delivered to the saints is just as important submission to our elders.

I am not trying to lecture you James, but I certainly felt your anger and a lot of venom in your post—but my brother, I did not sense the love.

I will say this again: I have not changed my belief and doctrine. The leaders at RHCC made the changes. The 25 theses we posted in love—that I know. Luther posted his 95 theses in love as well. There were things wrong with the church that he felt needed to change. It was love, not hatred or malice, which prompted his exercise of both love and faith to reform a church that had gone so far astray.



 
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207.190.67.96

Re: An Observation

November 19 2002, 9:42 AM 

Brother McKinney,

I do apologize that the tone of my post sounded vitriolic. I assure you that wasn't my intent. I usually read the posts on here and wait a day or so to respond so as to keep myself in check (usually I don't respond). However, this time I digressed and responded immediately. Looking back I can see that I erred, at least in the tenor of my post. For that, I ask for your forgiveness.

However, regarding the basic gist of my comments, I offer no apology. I was taught growing up, as I said, in a very conservative but mainline Church of Christ, that it is better to leave a church in peace than to openly, and especially by the circulation of letters, petitions, meetings, etc., accuse an eldership of unscriptural decision-making. I was educated in one of the best Christian colleges in the non-instrumental brotherhood, and to the person, everyone of my Bible instructors warned their young preaching students to avoid any group in a church that would "go up against" (those are my words)an eldership. We were told specifically that it is always better just to leave quietly, with the church in tact. And, maybe that is what you folks did. Only you, God, and the Richland Hills Church know that.

Obviously, I went out of control with my previous post, and though you and I still disagree on this issue, I hope and pray that you'll see that I am not quite as venemous as you thought. Thanks for your consideration and God bless you as you search the scriptures.

Sincerely,

James Kisner

 
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Anonymous

163.179.177.83

Thanks James, very much

November 20 2002, 6:15 AM 

That is more like what I was have expected from my brother!

I was taught an over-whelming respect for elders--they care a great self-imposed, congregation imposed and God imposed responsibility.

But, the one difference that comes forth here is the one for the ultimate authority of God's Word. My teachings led me to respect the Word over the opinions of man.

To simply leave a congregation "silently" when a point of scripture and the very organization of the church is at hand, is a whole different matter. To leave silently under such circumstances would be the same as giving silent consent to changes that you know are in conflict with the Word. In order words, do "we serve God or man?"

And what would happen in a small town where there is only one congregation of the Lord's church?

There just may be more to the story than in on the surface. I have found Mac McAllister and Elvin Bobo and wives Barb and Beth to be very creditable people. Their stories were freighting to me! Some of that is documented here.

In matters of opinions, I will bend far, but in Scriptural matters, I believe in sincere and honest, tempered with love, discussion.

To find a "deaconess" in I Timothy is a far stretch to me. I have studies carefully and understand the conclusion that the elders and staff agreed to, I still believe that it is a stretch and not in harmony with the all the Scriptures.

I believe that all are equal in the church and in every aspect of our lives. But equal does not mean SAME. It does appear that societal changes and the National Organization of Women are even beginning to effect church policy.

I prefer Scriptural authority. To attempt to PATTREN my Christianity as closely as possible to the inerrant Word of God should be the mission of each of us.

Thank you James, for you response in love--it is exactly what I would have expected from you--and appreciate so very much.

For those treating the church of Christ as a denomination, both from the progressive and the conservative side, please carefully evaluate what you are doing.

 
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163.179.154.18

OOPS

November 21 2002, 5:22 AM 

Somehow, my name was omitted from the above article. I most sincerely apologize and especially to James.

Weldon

 
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216.62.96.121

Martin Luther

May 20 2003, 10:10 AM 

Why use the 95 thesis written by Martin Luther as an example? We (church of christ) do not accept his teachings nor do we fellowship with the modern luthern churches. So what he did should be irrelivant.

 
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12.35.45.195

Great Answer

January 20 2003, 10:51 AM 

God Bless you-that was a great response.If you can not
peacefully worship together-find a place where you can and maintain the Unity!!Thanks In His Love and Grace Bob

 
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63.84.81.115

25 Thesis

November 6 2002, 9:00 PM 

I have read the 25 thesis and find that they address the same blasphemous error addressed by Martin Luther when He --rising above all of the cowards of history--risked his life just as surely as those at Richland Hills risk the loss of all past enjoyment of the PEACE for which Christ died. The burden of purgatory or indulgencs or the rituals of the CLERGY was "spiritual anxiety created by religious ritual."

I have posted Luther's thesis here:

http://www.piney.com/Luther95.html

I will later draw some perfect parallels such as the elders as POPES, indulgencies in the form of "if you give me your hard earned money then you won't be cursed." Or if you let my strange musicians LEAD YOU INTO GOD'S PRESENCE rather than Jesus then I can guarantee that you will be saved. Or, you must obey all of my ministry team or you will be cursed.

In short all DOMINANT CLERGY churches are quite identical to the Catholic church including holding 'inquisitions' to decide whether you advance "one giant step" toward the center of the Purpose Driven Cult circle. The CONFISCATION of "church houses of widows" meets the pattern.

The capstone is an exposure of doctrinal errors which any literate Bible student would applaud.

Let your hearts not be troubled! Pseudo Bartholomew defined backbiting against clear Biblical statements as blasphemy against the Holy Spirit:

2 Jesus saith unto him: Verily I say unto thee that hypocrisy and backbiting is heavier than all sins: for because of them, the prophet said in the psalm, that 'the ungodly shall not rise in the judgement, neither sinners in the council of the righteous', neither the ungodly in the judgement of my Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, that every sin shall be forgiven unto every man, but the sin against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven.

All of these positions of walking, standing and sitting are places in the Greek theater

3 And Bartholomew saith unto him: What is the sin against the Holy Ghost?

4 Jesus saith unto him: Whosoever shall decree (decide) against any man that hath served my holy Father hath blasphemed against the Holy Ghost:

For every man that serveth God worshipfully is worthy of the Holy Ghost,

and he that speaketh anything evil against him shall not be forgiven.

You have said what Lord Jesus Christ said through the Holy Spirit: nothing can or will be refuted by any Bible student because the CHANGE AGENTS know that they will be melted like wax if they respond: they will not, they cannot. When they reject the Word, Paul said to the Hebrews, they have committed the unforgivable sin.

Like the holy people who fell into mixed-sex choirs, instrumental music and women on display they have fallen and they will never get up. Enoch, Jubilees and a dozen other ancient documents confirm the result of ALL of the musical passages in the Bible.

Rejoice and be glad! Some people would tear down "Judas: Wanted for carrying the Judas Bag." Contained stolen money and the "mouthpieces of his wind instruments. Used to WHOLLY PERVERT Jesus as a repeat of the garden of Eden."

Ken Sublett

 
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63.84.81.89

25 EXCELLENT STATEMENTS

November 7 2002, 9:45 AM 

Vowed to be silent but chided for silence I believe that the statement in the 25 THESIS will be "ripped off the doors" just as the Jews tried to figuratively "rip off" the Thesis of Jesus. These must be spread into the watching world and must be shown to be TOTALLY REASONABLE to the literate and even to the INFILTRATORS AND DIVERTERS who believe that the Holy Spirit gives them a demand to be "greater than Moses or greater than Jesus." The rippers clearly love to be MINISTERS OF DIVERSION just as all TEAMS divert from the Words of Christ. Too wordy? Fine, don't put your TITHE in my basket.

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Thesis 7. We call on your minister, Rick Atchley, to repent of his willful failure to preach against the unbiblical use of mechanical music in Christian worship, and of his bold declaration that he not only has never preached on the subject in all his tenure here, but that neither shall he ever do so in the future. He denied that Nadab and Abihu were stricken dead for offering "strange fire" in his sermon based on Leviticus 10 called "Fire Alarms," concluding that God will never judge a man on the basis of "something the Bible says nothing about".
-----[Note: The absurd and false doctrine that there is no significance in the silence of Scripture allows adding anything a person desires in worship so long as there is no "thou shalt not". A booklet was written by a then-member at Richland Hills to refute this doctrine: A Commentary On What The Bible Does NOT Say. Thousands have been circulated in only a short time, showing widespread interest in the subject.]

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FIRST, we should recognize that in postmodern theology OLD TRUTH has disappeared into a "black hole" and we are free by grace. That means that telling a lie in the interest of SAVING SOULS AT ANY COST is not wrong. To quote Rubel Shelly "It is SIN if we do not become as much like the world as possible to win the world." Or, "we need to baptize things like Santa (Saturn 666) or the S.U.N. god to think of the S.O.N. God."

Therefore, it is a fatal misunderstanding if we do not grasp that the STONE- CAMPBELL RESTORATION DENOMINATION is made up of Christian Churches who began by stealing church houses of widows along with PRETEND members of the church of Christ agreeing to INFILTRATE AND DIVERT.

John Waddey notes what the Purpose Driven Cultists have always confessed:

--"To operate under the false pretense that they are faithful members of the Church of Christ when all the while they are working to undermine and destroy her, to lead away disciples after them (Acts 20: 30).

----"To use DECEIT to snatch away a building from those who BUILT and PAID for it. Captured meeting houses are like TROPHIES in war. Possession of them saves years of work and thousands, even millions of dollars. They provide a CLOAK of respectability to those who are operate out of them. They shrewdly keep their purposes veiled UNTIL they have gave sufficient power to claim the property. Such is a form of LEGAL theft. John Waddey."

We know that for a fact: then they turn Sunday Nights into a perfect example of WITCHCRAFT. ZOE is the Mother Goddess, know as the BEAST and the "female instructing principle." She is the Jezebel to the Ahabs with 850 musical prophesiers.

=========================================
SECOND, by dodging the GOPHER WOOD, and NADAB and ABIHU the false teachers believe that they have DODGED THE BULLET. However, to the literate, Satan or Lucifer (ZOE) began his/her perverted assault on Eve right in the garden. Every Biblical instance of combining voice and instruments speaks of the CURSE of animal sacrifices or of male and female prostitutes plying their trade UP CLOSE to the temple. All SINGING and PLAYING words speak of stealing or sexual PERVERSION.

Didn't we all watch with horror as probably the most conservative churches fell sucker to the new MANTRA that the ONLY work of the church is to WORSHIP. Worship to the overwhelming majority means to have fun singing CHURCHY songs which history acknowledges to be largely a product of REVIVALISM and VOODOO. Didn't they all give the MULTITUDE of song leaders a SECOND INCARNATION into ONE Musical Worship Minister. Terminal sin.

At the same time NONE of us were TEACHING AND ADMONISHING which is preaching and exhorting using the BIBLICAL RESOURCES. We were quite happy to have our children grow up ignorant being fed and diverted from the truth by singing FOUR PART FANNY. So, let's share the blame. Repenting means RESTORATION and we are all caught with CCM in our teeth a bit older than the new stuff. Know an elder and a Phd who "raised their ebenezzer" by STACKING BRICKS. God we pray that "thou hast a juvenile court."

=========================================
THIRD, Paul warned against this SENDING FOR AN EXPERT in musical idolatry in 1 Cor 10 and in Romans 10:

---"No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to DEMONS (bull idols), not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. 1 Cor 10:20

---"If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak (sing) with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? 1 Cor 14:23

This is why Paul's DIRECT COMMAND was to "glorify God with one voice" using "that which is written," The Spirit or the Words of Christ. The purpose was to TEACH AND ADMONISH and not to EXHILARATE or enrapture (rape).

=========================================
FOURTH: John Chrysostom and ALL historical scholars:

---"Not a word of sacrifice till then: and the first mention is, of the sacrifices offered to the calf. In like manner, "they rejoiced," "the people ate and drank, and rose up to play:"

--------and in consequence of this,

the feasts were prescribed: might be rendered, "he MARKS,"

"puts a MARK upon it" (so the innovator, who SUBSTITUTES: we take it passively, "there is a MARK set over it-it is emphatically denoted." In the active, the verb taken intransitively means

"to betoken or announce itself," "make its first appearance."

http://www.piney.com/DocChrysosHomXVII.html

=========================================
FIFTH, anyone not INFILTRATING AND DIVERTING understands that the PLAY at Mount Sinai was a return to the MUSICAL IDOLATRY of Egypt, Babylon or Canaan:

------"The triumphal hymn of Moses had unquestionably a religious character about it; but the employment of MUSIC in RELIGIOUS services, THOUGH IDOLATROUS, is more distinctly MARKED in the festivities which attended the erection of the golden calf." (Smith's Bible Dictionary, Music, p. 589).

-----------"They sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play. They practiced rites in which they made themselves naked, perhaps similar to those which were carried out by naked Babylonian priests." (Woodward, p. 158).

=========================================
SIXTH, When the LEVITES who were WARRIOR MUSICIANS put the sword to the MUSICAL IDOLATERS how did they know who to kill?

God put a MARK on them just as the SETHITES who fell into the hands of the CAINITE YOUTH being guided by SATAN a bisexual ELDER who taught them how to SEDUCE with mixed-sex choirs, instrumental music, fine seductive clothing, and perverted sexuality: The Book of Enoch, Jubilees and a dozen similar pre and post Christ documents.

The MARK of Apollyon or Abaddon who is APOLLO is the mark of "musical harmony, twanging bowstrings sending 'singing' arrows, thieves and liars. He/she is the end-time Babylon Whore.

Music MARKS the mind or forehead and the hand as "worshiping God with the INTENSIVE WORKS of human hands." History makes that clear. The MARK of Christ is his WORD which HE said "is SPIRIT AND LIFE." Those MARKED will not repent because they CANNOT repent any more than contracting a infectious plague can be repented of.

=========================================
SEVENTH, the LAW OF SILENCE is used ONLY by those who would IMPOSE musical instruments (in which the demons dwelled and from which they spoke in all ancient beliefs). The Bible INSISTS that we observe its silence on DOCTRINAL issues. The "no LAW' is just plain LEGALISM just as MUSIC is legalism. However, this is just another DIVERSION. The Bible IS NOT SILENT connecting INSTRUMENTS to telling God "we will not listen to YOUR words."

Paul defined the FIRST INSTRUMENT OF CHOICE in both Psalmos and modern Song: the human voice. The INFILTRATERS AND DIVERTS get by with it because we have had NO intention of ever teaching the BODY any UNSCRAMBLED facts. Psalm 41 prophesied that Judas would try to musically PERVERT Jesus and in Jesus' first encounter with a Musical Worship Team He "cast them out MORE OR LESS VIOLENTLY."

=========================================
CONCLUSION: One sincerely doubts that anyone could be so IGNORANT of the 100% of evidence connecting MUSICAL WORSHIP to Satan or destruction (Abad: the SERVICE of the Levite noise makers). It is not POSSIBLE to have read the Bible and not HAVE grasped the FALSEHOOD, perverted sexuality and ANTI-God meaning of musical worship which STEALS the worship due God which LUCIFER tried to steal in heaven. She is ZOE the BEAST.

The conclusion is that they have INFILTRATED and DIVERTED just like the Israelite ELDERS who led the charge to FIRE God and hire a KING like the nations so that they could "worship like the nations" or Babylonians. God gave them kings in His anger and took them away in His anger. The kings were prophesied to lead the nation into captivity and death earned because of the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai.

Apollyon, Abaddon or Apollo "has landed" and the locusts (cymbals) have been resurrected with scorpion stings in their TAILS. For now, DON'T give them any more money in TITHES as a return to Judaism and a fall from grace. NO. Don't give them your car, jewelry, insurance policy, stocks or bonds: NOTHING until they repent and MOVE AWAY.

Kenneth Sublett

 
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12.238.162.212

Unbelievable

January 10 2003, 4:31 AM 

Where in the Bible does it say anything about instruments in church service? And if your basing your church service on what was done in the old testament I think you need to have many more changes. I am sure they did not have microphones, and pews, for goodness sake they met in homes. We don't meet in homes. How do you know they did not raise there hands. Where is that mentioned in the Bible?

I do believe that baptisim is a response to and a show of obedience as a result of being saved by grace. But if you must do something to be saved, thats a work and our salvation is not a free gift from God. The Bible teaches clearly that we are not saved by works.

Do you really believe that God would not be faithful to all those out there seeking him? Do you really believe that He would lead Billy Graham and millions of others earnestly seeking him down the wrong path after all these years?

Do you really think if we don't follow your ways we will all perish? How about those in Africa that sing and shout out loud and dance before the Lord with no musical instruments because their culture is different from ours. Shall they perish too?

After reading your posting I am so glad I have been free from all this nonsense for the last 9 years. I have been able to focus on Jesus as my salvation and loving others as Jesus loved me. Not- musical instrumnets, have you been dunked (we don't care what's in your heart or if you understand what salvation means to your lifestyle, we want to know if you have been emersed fully under water). Just think of all God could do for the kingdom if we spent as much time on Him as you have wasted on bashing His church.

 
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66.191.227.18

amen

July 21 2003, 8:57 PM 

All I can say is "AMEN" to your post. God bless.

 
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201.121.231.153

"Amen" by Roland Whittemore

June 24 2006, 9:03 PM 

Hey Ken. I was wondering if you some times sign in as other people and agree with yourself so it doesn't seem like you are "totally out there" and no one is listening?

 
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Charlene

68.59.246.8

Re: "Amen" by Roland Whittemore

August 4 2008, 6:53 PM 

no he,s not the only one. A-men...

 
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Randi

12.64.216.141

THank you very much

April 2 2004, 12:26 AM 

Great job Sandy. Dont loose heart, okay?

 
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158.135.8.102

Putative concerns

December 2 2006, 8:21 PM 

All the fuss about the theses on the door is actually both sad and interesting. In an article concerning the split between Disciples of Christ and Churches of Christ I read recently (Southern History?) showed that the Churches of Christ split fropm the Disciples due primarily to animosity to churches in the North. Instrumental music (richer northern churches could afford them, southern churches could not and of course, we tend to use scriptute to "proof text" our predetermined stance on things), big churches, rich churches, missionary societies, othet things dividing north and south. In passages I have read in the Bible instrumental music was welcomed by God (e.g.the dedication of the temple in 2Chronicles 5) where the musicians played, the singers sang and the Spirit of the Lord filled the Temple. David's playing of musical instruments was pleasing to God, etc.
We are not here to try to copy the protocol used in ther early church practices. Otherwise, song directors would not be allowed, there would be no "announcements, no Bible classes, no Power Point sermons, no Sunday evening Lord's Supper, etc. Since there is nothing inherently evil about instrumental music, other than violation of our tradition, there should be no railing aginst it, rather appriciation of the heartfelt worship of God.
Since we are among 4-5% of Christians disdaining music, it is a little odd that we alone are smart enough to discern God's word and the other 95% of Christians are just too dumb to realize such an "obvious direction" in Christian theology?
Rick C. White

 
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69.19.14.28

Putative? Putative?

December 3 2006, 8:17 AM 

Rick, I am not sure that I can dialog with anyone who could use the word PUTATIVE. I think that is something like Urban Legends? Please send me a note about what you are reading: I have probably reviewed it and posted it. I won't sell your address! Let me begin at the ending:
    Rick White: Since we are among 4-5% of Christians disdaining music, it is a little odd that we alone are smart enough to discern God's word and the other 95% of Christians are just too dumb to realize such an "obvious direction" in Christian theology?
I don't know anyone who DISDAINS music! The fact is that the church is "ekklesia" which is "synagogue" which is by civil definition, Biblical commands (Numbers 10), the history of the faithful in Israel, the approved example of Jesus, the direct commands of Paul, the example of Paul and the practice of the church before Constatine means A SCHOOL of the BIBLE. The SABBATH means REST and not Saturday. The Holy Convocation demands reading and rehearsing the Word. The resource is "that which is written" or "Scripture" or "Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs" all of which are INSPIRED. Neither preaching nor singing nor passing the plate happened for almost 400 years when the church WENT and preached with NO WAGED roles: just NONE at all.

Jesus CAST OUT the musical minstrels LIKE DUNG and Stephen repudiated the temple and both were in the APPROVED MINORITY. However, you should know that not even in the vilest pagan religions did singers or musicians enter into the Holy Places where the "gods" were presumed to be. So, you have gone where no Jew or pagan ever went before. Not even the Catholics did "congregational singing with instrumental accompaniment." So, if you are NOT part of the infinitely tiney "remnant" you are in TROUBLE. Fact is, outside of American "christianism" there is little MUSIC seen AS worship. If you will check here you will discover that ALL people repudiated instrumental music AS worship:

http://www.piney.com/MuIndex2.html

Fact is, singing as AN ACT was added close to the year 400: before that then used a simple form of SPEAK as commanded using ONLY the Text to TEACH and ADMONISH, Glorify God, comfort with Scripture and KEEP THE UNITY (All commanded by Paul in Romans 15).
    Rick White: All the fuss about the theses on the door is actually both sad and interesting. In an article concerning the split between Disciples of Christ and Churches of Christ I read recently (Southern History?) showed that the Churches of Christ split fropm the Disciples due primarily to animosity to churches in the North.
Fact is, Rick, churches of Christ (Reformers) were NEVER part of the Stoneites who began as neo-witchcraft at Cane Ridge, Ky (Bourbon county, Hee Haw). "The Church of Christ" is the universal name people used. ALL repudiated instrumental music or "loud ritualism." I have a long list:

http://www.piney.com/ChofChristName.html

A few "Christian churches" agreed to meet in the same building with "Reformers" or churches of Christ. That was because STONE put "union" over doctrine. When the instrument was FORCED IN this agreement to disagree ended. MOST of the Christian churches became Churches of Christ and most of the Stoneite preachers joined the Campbel etal movement. The "christian" churches or DISCIPLES disagreed with the Reformers on EVER SINGLE KEY doctrine including baptism. The Disciples DENOMINATION organized with children as LIFE MEMBERS to include ALL OF CHRISTENDOM wanted to count churches of Christ but it was the CENSUS man who questioned it. Lipscomb denied that they belonged to the Disciples denomination. I have a copy of their PLAN presented in the year 1908.

Fact is, it was the Christian Church which SPLIT from the Disciples because many of them held some of the same views as churches of Christ which were NEVER A PART of the Disciples denomination. So, it was the Christian church which SECTED OUT and not churches of Christ.
    Rick White: Instrumental music (richer northern churches could afford them, southern churches could not and of course, we tend to use scriptute to "proof text" our predetermined stance on things), big churches, rich churches, missionary societies, othet things dividing north and south.
I have a home made flute made out of a deer bone my dog dragged up, a shofar from a cow horn dragged up, a hand made banjo and a hand made dulcimer. I have several flutes made out of pipe and any pipe can be a trumpet. They rolled up leather to make flutes (lifeless instruments) and stretched gut over turtle shells or played their BOW. My Alabama maternal grandparents had one of the oldest reed organs around. I have the receipt of my Paternal Grandmother who bought hers at 10 dollars a month from farming and selling milk and butter. Churches of Christ built many fine buildings, many still standing, and people had all kinds of instruments in their home: harps, zithers, guitars, flutes, melodians, harpsicords. The war was fought in BATTLES and not all over the country. Furthermore, the first legalistic grab for church property was at Sand Creek, Ill and last time I checked that was not in the SOUTH. There was almost NO churches of Christ in the South confiscated by the Organ: NewBern, TN was one such and you can read the law case. The first organ FORCED in by a liberal preacher and removed by an elder was at Midway, Ky and that is NOT in the South.

In 1878 for the FIRST TIME IN HISTORY it was the Disciples who invented the PSALLO or MELODY to mean "sing and play instruments." Churches of Christ had NEVER used instruments even as Baptists and Presbyterians (now so named). They NEEDED no proof text to NOT BE FORCED TO BEGIN something they and ALL RECORDED CHURCH HISTORY repudiates. The PROOF TEXT defines the what and how of the SYNAGOGUE OF CHRIST. No literate Jew or Gentile would hallucinated INSTRUMENTS in Synagogue or Ekklesia.
    Rick White: We are not here to try to copy the protocol used in ther early church practices. Otherwise, song directors would not be allowed, there would be no "announcements, no Bible classes, no Power Point sermons, no Sunday evening Lord's Supper, etc. Since there is nothing inherently evil about instrumental music, other than violation of our tradition, there should be no railing aginst it, rather appriciation of the heartfelt worship of God.
Singing was ADDED close to the year 400 and the clerical "song director" is said by McClintock and Strong to be "the oldest heresy largely pervading the church." So you have FORCED singing as an ACT in direct violation of TEACHING THE TEXT. So, now, little Camel, you want to use THAT as authority for adding instruments? The command is to TEACH THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN and no one objects to chalk and blackboard or any of the false examples.

The COMMAND and the CHRIST PURCHASED PURPOSE was to remove the BURDEN LADERS which means "spiritual anxiety created by religions rituals." The word REST in both Hebrew and Greek is a dedicated word and means (in Greek literature), 'STOP the speaking, stop the singing, stop the instruments, stop the PANic.' When they POLLUTED the Sabbath at Mount Sinai the word (h2490) means to play the flute, steal your inheritance, pollute and prostitute. The word PLAY means to sing, joke, dance, play instruments and play sexually. Paul called it DEMON WORSHIP under the BULL symbol. That is what David repeated when he went naked with the servant girls.

We don't NEED a command to sit down and shut down when Jesus assembles (synagogues) to be our SOLE teacher when the elders as commanded "teach that which has been taught."

Jesus didn't die for HEARTFELT WORSHIP: in fact He prescribes NO SUCH THING. What he told the sinful woman--and no PhDuh can grasp--is that God only seeks worship in the PLACE of the human SPIRIT in contrast to MOUNTAINS and HOUSES. What you FEEL after having all of your nerve endings stroked is NOT spirit but emotion pure and simple. So simple that ALL singing and instrument playing was known as SORCERY. Read Revelation 17 about the Mother of Harlots. Then skip to Revelation 18 and hear the singers, musicians and TECHNICIANS defined as SORCERERS who DECEIVED THE WHOLE WORLD. Jude and the Book of Enoch treats them as revived Fallen Angels. Peter called them a CROOKED generation meaning the "drunk with wine SKOLION singers" who tried to pervert even Jesus.

The Bible--and history knows no exception--proves that it was Lucifer (Zoe) who brought musical instruments into the Garden of Eden as the "singing and harp playing PROSTITUTE." Isaiah 30 proves that Tophet or HELL was prepared SPECIFICIALLY for Satan and those She/he seduced using music: there we see god DRIVING or BEATING people into hell with the same wind, string and percussion instruments Lucifer took into the Garden to WHOLLY SEDUCE Eve so that Cain was OF that wicked one. Cain derived from a MUSICAL NOTE. When you do rhetoric and music that is WHY you missed card class 101aaa and THAT is why music is evil. The word DEMAGOGUE is defined as one who takes you captive (heresy) by lifting you up USING THE POPULAR ARTS. Why didn't your STAFF INFECTION tell you that they are DEMAGOGUES and SORCERERS? Well, YOU figure that one out since they LIE like dogs about the LAW OF SINGING and the LAW OF GIVING.

"Will He find faith when He returns?" No, almost none so don't be giddy about joining the POLIS or majority crowds because Paul said that Jesus will be OUTSIDE suffering reproaches. The battle is against principalities and powers in high places: our weapons are not lifeless instruments or carnal weapons but the WORD OF GOD. Outside of the cursed Monarchy civil and clergy leaders, God has always QUARANTINED His own in local synagogues, ekklesia or assemblies where WE "give attendance to the public reading of the Word, to exortation and doctrine." That fits the universal pattern of the synagogue because by direct command (Numbers 10) and universal understanding "had no praise service."

So, if you want to be saved you have to JOIN tiny remnant which probably HAS ALREADY mostly fled from any modern form of Christianism which has almost no relationship to the Biblical or early historical school of Christ (as Thomas Campbell called it.) They are stealing your money, time, urge to be a disciple (student) and emotiional health. If Jesus visited them they would mock Him like the Levitical Warrior musicians and probably SAT him on the back pew.

 
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170.211.47.47

Thank you for your stand for the Truth!

August 20 2003, 3:43 PM 

I had heard of most of the error that Richland Hills was involved in, but some of the Items were shocking to me to see that they have falling that far in to apostasy. Thank you so much for the time you took to make this known so others might see the "writing on the wall". My wife and I left the largest congragation in our county because of the error that was being taught. I preach at a small( but faithful) congragation of the Lord's church and am in my 9th year. Thanks be to God.

 
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Jason Fox

203.109.254.40

A candid look

February 4 2004, 5:22 AM 

J.C. Good to hear your words again brother.

Regarding this 25 theses nail to the door. When is one to speak out? And what messures are to be taken in such curcumstances? Clearly all efforts were taken to combat the addressed problems internally without success.

As for some comments of "just walk away quietly". Are Christians just to roll over when confronted with error? Are we really to just walk away for the sake of keeping the peace? I cannot believe people are saying such things. As Christians we are in a war!

I don't know how people can condemn those who wrote this document as the ones causing division. The division already exists. These people have exposed the error, of cause there is going to be contention, and putting your head in the sand does not make it go away.

The question is, who are the ones guilty of causing division? Not the ones who wrote and signed the 25 theses. But the ones who teach and promote doctrine foreign to the Bible.

For to long, to few strong sound brethren have taken on the fight and exposed error in the Ekklesia. And probably for the above reason, they are afraid of being labeled as trouble makers and ones whom cause division.

James Kisner, you are exactly the type of false teacher that is to be exposed and marked. You do not teach the whole councel of God. "Progressive" is only another name for apostate.

As for James comment that we should always respect elders, I agree. But then we are always to respect people. We are taught to be in submission to elders also. But only when the teach the whole councel of God. We are not to be lead by such that teach error. Being opposed to those that teach error does not equate to dis-respect.

To those that says that the 25 theses and the way they have been delivered is not loving, please define love. Seems as though some are only interested in is warm fuzzies. I would say that we are to practice agape love. It may seem to some as harsh, but it is for the greater good of the Body.

Look at how many congregations are mentioned in the Bible and how many of them had strife and contention and error. How were they dealt with? The error was exposed. Do you think peace is being only when one is united with your brother and sister in in Christ? Sure, it's a nice thing, but peace lays in the fact that you know you are saved. If you judge peace by the way you get on with others, then you are going to have a ruff time of it. There are always going to be personality conflicts, minor or even major disagreements of sorts etc... and what of matters of expediency? So you see peace is not when you feel good and everything is going well, because if that is ones messuring stick, it will be short lived.

I am glad that the error at Richland Hills has been exposed. However I fear it may have been left to long to be dealt with and that this congregation may never return to it's first love.

Jason Fox.
NPCoC
New Zealand

 
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Anonymous

64.251.0.102

If we don't stand we will fall for anything!!!

January 6 2009, 1:02 PM 

I must commend Jason and Ken for standing up for God's word!

I am a christian in a small congregation and I ran across this forum. I had no idea this has been going on and for so many years. My father always said God is not impressed with numbers, man IS! He showed me in the bible where it states "Broad is the way that leadeth to destruction and many be which go in there at". Matt. 7:13-15. Also, Matt. 15:9 which says "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men".
It seems the bigger the church becomes the more we will allow the devil to come in the body of Christ in sheeps clothing teaching the commandments of men.

This is our salvation that is on the line. That is very serious to me. I will not stand by and just be silent. We must stand up for God's word. God says if we know better we must do better. God expects us to stand up for him.

So my hats off to all those who took part in the 25 Theses and anyone who is taking a stand for his name sake!

Ken, although you are all over the place and very long winded. I since a real love for God's word in your comments and know that you are only trying to defend it. Thank You.

"If God be for us, who can be against us?" Romans 8:31
God Bless you
Your sister in Christ


 
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HD

68.184.179.244

You have to be kidding...

May 3 2004, 10:28 PM 

Don't you guys have anything better to do with your time? Your ranting and raving is ludicrous. You are not contending for the faith, but merely clinging to the traditions of men. If you are so concerned about the lost, why don't you go out and witness to some of them instead of spending so much time on this Internet site ranting and raving about NRH COC.

I do not attend there, but have great respect for the ministry they are involved in. Get a life...PLEASE!!!

 
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168.12.253.66

Jesus was the ultimate LIBERAL

December 3 2004, 11:02 AM 

I found this site quite by accident while search for information about a childhood friend by the last name of Atchley. I have to admit that I was both appalled and humored by all the rants here.
I find myself thinking the same thing my teenaged son questioned me about recently. Why would ANYONE want to believe in a God that is presented as such an JERK?!
I sure don't. I'm not saying I don't believe there is a God. But you have to admit that God himself would or should disapprove of such a judgemental, insecure and dismissive entity. I prefer to believe in a God of Love.
I find it humorous that so many fundamentalist Christians act in just the opposite way that the bible teaches --- I find many "devout Christians" to be the most hate filled, venomous, judmental and angry people I've ever met. Its so sad.
Am I getting this right -- alot of this is over MUSIC? Hysterical! :-P
Geez -- yall SCARE me!
There are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many more ways you could spend your time that would help other people.....

 
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24.243.162.132

Who is really behind "Concerned Members"?

June 22 2006, 9:14 AM 

Gal 5 13 "For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”[b] 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!
Walking in the Spirit

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[c] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[d] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another."

It isn't too difficult for even the beginning Bible student to apply this text from Gal 5 to the posts on this site and make an imformed decision as to who is more likely walking in the Spirit and who is not.

The reason Mr. Sublett must use so much extrabiblical resourses to support his theories is that the Bible alone does not. I have read many, many of your posts Mr. Sublett and I have not seen even a hint of love for those whith whom you disagree. If you don't love your brother you don't love God! That is not my words, its God's word.

Royce Ogle
Monroe, LA

 
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4.152.174.141

Re: Who is really behind "Concerned Members"?

July 6 2006, 3:12 PM 

Those BEHIND Concerned Members are those who have had their CHURCH HOME stolen by false preachers and MUSICIANS. They boast about infiltrating and diverting to turn YOUR property into a THEATER FOR HOLY ENTERTAINMENT.

All of this flowed out of the Vineyard, aka New Wineskin religion, and all of the PRO instrumental band of men have already identified themselves in favor of TEAMS and INSTRUMENTS. They are all Biblically and terminally ignorant or terminally EVIL. They believe that TRUTH got zapped away and "we gonna partner with God to work out a new set." They don't hesitate to tell you that they have a HIGHER USE for your property and JUST steal it and drive away half of the members. What is behind it is to give ALL religious groups a place to share information and get BIBLICAL help to defeat the FALSE TEACHERS. I am an old and tired retired Engineer who got pissed off by all of the people "stealing the church houses of widows."

Jesus commanded that worship be in the SPIRIT: that means in the Mind where we are commanded to speak with ONE MIND and ONE MOUTH using that which is written or Scripture to Educate, glorify God and keep the peace.

Paul said that the Jewish converts now worship in the PLACE of the spirit or mind because outside there be homosexual lovers:

Ph 3:1 FINALLY, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.

Ph 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
    Kuon (g2965) koo'-ohn; a prim. word; a dog ["hound"] (lit. or fig.): - dog.

    Re.22:15 For without are DOGS, and SORCERERS, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Paul commanded the word SPEAK which can never mean SING much less MAKE MUSIC. We know from all of that HISTORY that no one dared to ADD singing as an ACT of worship for almost 400 years.

The word SPEAK in the ekklesia or synagogue meant "in a whisper or conversational tone." The Latin SERMO means the same thing. Those who performed as speakers, singers or musicians were identified by jesus as the SECT of the HYPOCTES by point to prophecy.

Another word for SPEAK is LOGIKOS which is the OPPOSITE OF MOUSIKE.

That is because the MUSES created mental excitement Jesus died to outlaw and Paul outlawed for the SYNAGOGUE or school of the Bible in Rom. 15.

Mousikos delicate, hêdion; harmonious [in tune], fitting, Delicate Malakos path-êtikos d. = pathêtikos, e. of music, soft, effeminate, m. harmoniai

The Patheticos were the MALE prostitutes who were the ONLY male musicians. The Word Music speaks of the MUSES who were the MUSICAL TEAM for the Babylon Whore end-time religion. John said that the musicians performed SORCERY by which they deceived the nations. There CANDLES were removed and if you believe the Biblical examples and The Book of Enoch affirmed by Jude, they have fallen and they will never be restored to the WORD.

I hope that you understand that Jesus CAST OUT the musical minstrels using a word meaning LIKE DUNG.

mousikê (sc. technê), hê, any art over which the Muses presided, esp. poetry sung to music,

Mousikos (g3451) moo-sik-os'; from Moåusa , (a Muse); "musical", i.e. (as noun) a minstrel: - musician

Rev 18:22 The music of harpists and musicians, flute players and trumpeters, will never be heard in you again. No workman of any trade will ever be found in you again. The sound of a millstone will never be heard in you again.


These were the concision or dogs or SORCERERS. They were the emasculated priests of the Mother Goddess (Zoe, Eve, etc)

Gal 5:12 As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

Iamblichus wrote

11. This is probably an allusion to the mutilations practiced at Rites like the orgies of the Great Mother [ZOE>. Similar suspensions of sensibility are reported in cases of burning alive and the tortures inflicted upon religious devotees. The enthusiasm or mental ecstasy overcomes the corporeal sensation.

Where then are those who dare to mutilate themselves; seeing that they draw down the Apostolic curse, and accuse the workmanship of God, and take part with the Manichees? ... But if you will not allow this, why do you not mutilate the tongue for blasphemy, the hands for rapine, the feet for their evil courses, in short, the whole body?

For the ear enchanted by the sound of a flute hath often enervated the soul; and the perception of a sweet perfume by the nostrils hath bewitched the mind, and made it frantic for pleasure.


The LADED BURDEN Jesus died to remove was "spiritual anxiety created by religious rituals." The word REST or PAUO is dedicated to saying: "Stop the the singing, stop the instruments, stop the PANIC" which all musical noises created.

Therefore, the LIBERTY Jesus died to give us is LIBERATION FROM the musical performers who, like the Scribes, would write you a song or some better SCRIPTURE, the Pharisees who changed the LAWS so they could rob widows, and the HYPOCRITES. This was a SECTARIAN wing and Jesus identified them as SINGERS and MUSICIANS in Ezekiel 33.

For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh [human passions], but by love serve one another. Gal 5:13

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. Gal 5:14


No one can LOVE anyone in a spiritual sense and MAKE MUSIC bleed off the worship for themselves--and get paid to. ALL known recorded history MARKS them as prostitutes or if male, either DRUNK or PERVERTS.

WRONG KIND OF LOVE. Motive? No income from this. I began bu searching MOST of the world's literature on music and religion and the MUSIC -- RELIGION -- SEXUALITY them cannot be disputed. I quote extra Biblical literature to prove to you that there is NO EXCEPTION in recorded history to what the Bible says about MUSIC as having arrived with Lucifer as the "singing and harp playing prostitute" in the garden of Eden.

Furthermore, I quote ALL known resources to prove that the PhDuhs promoting music as just flat liars. For the literate among us some of us just enjoying anything above out belly button.

MUSIC is pagan prostitute religion and NO ONE can find any exception.

 
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71.11.232.82

Winds of Change

July 18 2006, 8:49 PM 



I have to say, to some extent I agree with you about the change agents. The motive in many cases is arrogance. Going into a church and and changing its culture is divisive and pointless. The point of a community of faith is to support and love each other and worship God. Not try out the lastest workshop church growth theories.

I have attended Richland Hills for a long time. They do lots of good things. They do lots of silly unnecessary things as well. But that is what it is to be human. We are all imperfect and fallible, even when we believe the book we base our faith on isn't.

I don't know what to say to people like you Mr. Sublett. I grew up with in a household that believes like you. I parted ways with them because I could no longer find meaning in it. I think a majority of younger people like myself feel the same way. Your way of belief is dying out, just as the culture that created it is. The good news for you, if you choose to see it this way, is the Baby boomer inspired consumer church phenom is on its way out as well. Mark my words, another generation or so, the huge temples of excess that mark the suburban landscape will be empty. Lucado, Shelby, Cope and the like will be footnotes in history, replaced by the next big thing.

Brian

 
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76.186.176.253

Fact or Opinion?

September 28 2007, 2:04 PM 

From a loving and very concerned sister in Christ, greetings to all who may read this. May God bless you with understanding and peace.

First, let me say that I do fully understand and sympathize with anyone who believes that their church is turning away from Christ. An occurence of that sort would be truly tragic.

Now, this message is not really a response to the above, but I didn't know how to post any other way. This message is for all of the people who will read this website and be confused by the apparent lack of Christianity dispayed by some of the "Christians" on this page, especially the unbelievers.

For the record, the responder who noted several Biblical examples of musical worship including instruments was completely accurate. If you read anywhere on this site something that conflicts, please email me and I will be happy to provide you (free of charge) with a copy of the Bible so that you can read and determine for yourself where the truth really lies. The best way to clear up differences of this sort is simply to study the Bible for yourself, and not just take other people's word for it. David sang and played his instrument before the Lord. Not only was the Lord pleased, he took care to make sure that David's psalms ("songs") are included in the Bible. David was also described many times as being a man after God's own heart. Please read for yourself and judge the truth.

The decision not to use a piano (the original debated instrument) in the south was the direct result of lower income. It does not now, nor has it ever, had anything to do with Biblical principles or doctrine, no matter what anyone else says. The "decision" not to use a piano (now any instrument) has become a sore point, usually among elderly members of any given congregation. Our own church is going through this debate currently, but our elders have decided to attempt to maintain the unity of the body by declining instruments at this time. For their reasoning, please read the book of Romans in the Bible, especially the part about the stronger and weaker brother. The gist of it is that the stronger brother is called not to tempt the weaker brother with something that might challenge his faith. The stronger brother, instead, should study with the weaker brother until he comes to a stronger faith by a fuller understanding of scripture and God's will.

Moving right along, regretfully, it was a prevalent belief among many churches of Christ in previous years that members of the named "church of Christ" were the only people on earth, throughout time, eligible of going to heaven. This also promoted the name "the One True Church," and many churches of Christ still find it difficult to attract new members because of this arrogant presumption. Thankfully, if you are interested in finding a loving and accepting church of Christ today, you will probably have more success than you may be led to believe by the loud-voiced denunciations of certain few members. We members who agree with Jesus that ALL PEOPLE are desired by God have been trying for years to stamp out that nasty distinction we inherited from our older relatives. I personally believe that it is not for me, or anyone, to claim to know the mind of God. The only thing I know is that if God is willing to love me, a dreadful sinnner, I am absolutely certain that He is willing to love everyone else as well. It is not for us to judge, and many churches of Christ are coming around on this point.

Please don't believe that all Christians routinely research satanic rituals and demonic language the way Ken seems to have done. We do not all use that kind of language in reference to things or people we don't happen to care for. The correct mode of confronting a brother who sins against you is detailed in the Bible. This kind of evil language is not, and should never be, prevalent in the church.

Also, note that when I use the term "the church," I am referring to any body of believers in Christ, not specifically the church of Christ, which is just one of many denominations. I am personally a member of the church of Christ because I believe that our particular church follows closely the teachings of the Bible. As mentioned in another post, churches of Christ are not affiliated with each other. (for example, we don't have popes or bishops, we don't report to any type of governing body or organization)

Finally, just let me say one last thing about division in the church. If you read these posts all the way through, as I just have, you may be struck by the notion that the people attempting the reform sound to be, for the most part, very angry. I do not presume to know the minds of all 19 people signatory to that list; however, I would judge that if a person sounds angry and resentful, then they probably are angry and resentful. Ken has stated more than once that his church was "stolen" by people he describes in various unflattering ways. He is absolutely right! In a way, his church was stolen, but not in the way he represents. He disagreed with the decisions of the elders, forgetting apparently that Jesus called us to pray for and submit to those in authority; and he decided to do something about it, something hateful and cruel. I noticed also that the more responses came in against him, the more agitated he apparently became. You'll need to understand how passionate church members can become in their disagreements, and if you don't currently attend church, please don't let this stop you. When we believe something wholeheartedly, as Ken does, we often become irrational and will defend our opinion long past the point at which it has been proven false. In several years, when he goes back and reads over his comments, I am sure that he will feel acutely embarrased for using such hateful, even demonic, language about his brothers and sisters in Christ. Just in case my email address doesn't appear here, you may contact me personally with any questions, especially requests for Bibles, at janderin@sbcglobal.net.

To those at the Richland Hills church, please accept my condolences for the rift in your body. We are currently trying to prevent a smaller rift, and even that effort is extremely painful. It is my hope and prayer that God will sustain you and your leaders in courage and faith during this hard time.

Grace and peace be with you,
Erin

 
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72.254.14.65

If you have always been blind, do you know you are?

November 6 2007, 12:06 AM 

Ken,

All I can say is WOW! I have been reading your posts for a few years now and I have to say I have enjoyed them very much. Don't misunderstand, I think you are completely sincere in your arguments and you make them sound substantial in that "stream of consciousness" style of writing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stream_of_consciousness_writing) you tend to employ most of the time. In all seriousness, I'm not going to try and change your position on what you believe about instrumental music. Quite the contrary. I will publicly defend your right to believe what you believe based on Romans 14; just as I would defend Rick Atchley's right to believe what he believes based on the same passage. That passage coupled with 1 Cor. 8 and 10 work together to make that case in Paul's teachings. But where I do take issue with you and others is that it appears you have sold out love for knowledge with the things you write and promote. (see 1 Cor. 8:1). That is indeed very dangerous ground to tread on. On some level, your points sound good. There is just one problem and it is the same problem that most "scholars" have failed to acknowledge throughout history - making a good argument does not necessitate correctness! Paul understood this and called it out literally as a warning to the Colossians in the first 4 verses of chapter 2 when the heresey of gnosticism infiltrated the church. It was a very effective technique. "If it sounds that good, it must be correct." Not according to Paul.

Sincerely,

Todd A. Atnip
Bowling Green, KY

 
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Hamooki

70.129.131.180

Change Agents

May 2 2008, 11:05 AM 

There is a problem with the church when the people therein are weak minded enough to accept anything that comes down the road as the truth. The bible speaks of false prophets constantly.

2 Peter 2:1 "But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves."

I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but a biblically grounded person is SUSPICIOUS! The world has to conform to Christ, he is not their cosmic bellhop. Satan rails against the church (some of you really don't believe that) and God's people. Christianity is not for inclusion of everyone or everything, rather it's for exclusion. We are to be in the world, but not of the world and not it seems that so many of us just long for worldy approval, bending over backwards to get it.

Matt 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

As far as music, I won't comment on that, but how about this: The Ecumenical Movement. I'm hearing Church of Christ preachers (a few) now holding up catholics (bishops, the pope) as if they are the same as us. They do it by reading their quotes or lauding their behavior in some way (mother theresa - so called). This is a cult with multiple sex abuse charges against it. The Ecumenical Movement endpoint brings all religions together and nothing is really right or wrong as long as you don't do things that will get you put in jail. So if you fornicate, are totally self-serving or refuse to take responsibility for anything, that's OK. It's a process of defusing Christianity slowly, taking out the salt and any real beliefs and at the end we are not different than anyone else. So which way are we going as a church here?









 
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69.19.14.36

Review of Ronnie Norman dittoing Rick Atchley.

May 11 2008, 8:53 PM 

With all due respect I can find no evidence that most preachers using Romans 14 and STRETCHING it have any knowledge about the background to the conflict between the church and the CULTURE." Certain MORAL practices such as one's DIET which distinguished them in the marketplace and their observance of certain days did not disqualify them from friendship and ekklesia (church) attendance. After all, a true Church of Christ is an ekklesia, synagogue or school of the Bible--only--and with the Campbells this narrow definition allowed people of all PREFERENCES to attend.

However, beyond the MORAL and ETHICAL preferences, all of the sects in Rome were superstitious and highly addicted to "worship" where female (or effeminate) musicians aroused themselves and the "audience" to such a high pitch of sexual impulses" that it contributed to the destruction of society: this led the Roman Government to restrict the size of the assemblies and to daylight hours. They sold this musical enchantment John called sorcery as proof that they deserved the pay for bringing the gods down.

None of the worship PREFERENCES were allowed to "open a peep" when they came to the ekklesia for instruction in the Bible in order to make their weak faith stronger. To think that Romans 14 is the authority to DESTROY the peace and let the DOUBTFUL DISPUTERS take over the church seems truly beyond redemption.

After listening to Ronnie Norman's sermon I have posted a further review of Romans 14 to include some background.

http://www.piney.com/Norman.Romans.14.html

Rather than accepting the assistance of the musical minstrel PREFERENCE He tossed them out "more or less violently" as one ejects dung. He consigned these same Dionysiacs part of the Abomination of Desolation as pipers, singers and dancers BACK to the marketplace where all pollutions belonged. The claim to be Market Driving is troubling. I will clean up these notes in time but I just heard the sermon yesterday.







 
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67.142.130.33

Has the frog boiled?

August 5 2008, 7:00 PM 

I hate to tell you that I told you so but you must remember that the conceiving to deceive went through the 'worship team' and the DEACONESS change which was a programmed effort to dissociate you. That makes it easier to slip in the heresy of instrumental "worship."

I hear that you have GROWN SO MUCH from instruments that you are going to USE them on Sunday. Well, surprise, surprise, surprise. Well from the boasted of 6,400 to the somewhere around 4,500 before the deaconess infusion to around 3,500 AFTER the Sabbath worship and it looks like it has never recovered to the PRE LEAP PATTERNISM.

I think that Rick as a confessed congenital Christian Churcher would impose instruments even if the attendance went to 1,000 as long as the finances kept up the institute. Here is some of the confessed madness at Madison showing that they BOAST of the DIVERSION which is universally fueled by instrumental LUST. As long as the members continue to live ignorant of the Word of God and get fleced by the Law of Tighing and giving, Satan wins and YOU LOOSE.







 
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75.163.141.230

Both/And Again...

August 7 2008, 12:34 PM 

...naturally RH is moving to a Sun. AM "instrumental" service. Serves as another reminder of R. Atchley's misrepresentation of OT references and history by stating God "commanded" instrumental praise and later prophesied into the NT. With much displeasure my parents have recently relocated to the DFW area to be closer to grandchildren and, of course, this is the "congregation" they've chosen to attend.

 
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75.163.141.230

Any surprise?...

August 7 2008, 6:43 PM 

...that RH will have Sun. Am "instrumental" service. Was there several weeks ago & noted dimming of lights and varying colors during LS. Am amazed that so many are buying in to R. Atchley's misapplication of OT references and history to justify IM in their assemblies. This concept of "both/and" seems very catchy. My parents have recently relocated to DFW to be closer to grandchildren...with dismay RH is the congregation they have chosen.

 
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24.206.97.50

Re: Any surprise?...

August 13 2008, 6:11 AM 

If things hold true to form from other congregations who have done this, the reward for those that have built Richland Hills will be that the non-instrumental service will be the most inconvenient time to attend. It will be early in the morning, with the instruments being given the "prime" time of the later service.

 
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Bob Davies

66.196.248.34

inconvenient time?

September 10 2008, 5:43 PM 

Yes, I can tell 9:00 is a VERY inconvenient time to attend.....

 
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24.206.97.50

Re: inconvenient time?

September 13 2008, 10:22 AM 

Wait until a third service is added and the non-instrumental service is at 8 or 8:30 a.m.

 
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Jacob

199.27.129.130

hey

March 18 2011, 7:13 AM 

The 25 thesis posted on Richland hills door is stupid

Freaking grow up and love God more than your unbiblical judgmental doctrine

You're a bunch of Pharisees

 
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199.27.128.82

Not related to the thesis

March 18 2011, 9:26 AM 

Peter made it clear that the WORD for faith and practice is the PROPHETS by the Spirit OF Chris and the Prophecies made more perfect by Jesus Christ. Peter says that this "memory" left for us is not subject to private interpretation or "further expounding."

The FOUNDATION being used to "cast people out of their own synagogue" is the Levites who made noise and never music. Rick's 2 Chronicles 29 message he got from "a" spirit was ONLY during the burning of the GOATS (capella) for a plague-stopping exorcism. Christ in all of the prophets says that God DID NOT commande the king, kingdom, temple, animal sacrifices or the Warrior Levites cursed by Jacob in

Genesis 49.

Jesus calls Scribe and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES by naming mercinary speakers, singers and instrument players: A hypocrite is anyone who CLAIMS the power to "further expound" the Word of Christ.

hupokrinomai 1 2 3 later also aor1 and perf. pass. in mid. sense
I. to reply, make answer, answer, Hom., Hdt. responsive singing
2. to expound, interpret, explain, Od., Ar.:the attic word in this sense is apo-krinomai.
II. of actors, to answer on the stage: hence to play a part, tn Antigonn hupokekritai Dem.; hup. to basilikon to take the king's part, Arist.; hupokr. tragdian, kmdian to play a tragedy, a comedy, id=Arist.; absol. to play a part, be an actor, id=Arist.
2. to represent dramatically: hence to exaggerate, Dem.
3. metaph. to play a part, to feign, pretend, c. inf., id=Dem.


[linked image]
[linked image]


A person PRESUMING to further expound the Word of God in Christ in song or sermon IS THE JUDGE:

krin0 i_ separate, put asunder, distinguish
5. expound, interpret in a particular way, to enupnion taut ekrinan Hdt. 1.120, cf. 7.19, A.Pr.485, etc.:in Med., ho gern ekrinat' oneirous Il. 5.150. Sophon
II. of things, cleverly devised, wise, nomos [man made laws: Legalism]


Jesus said that God HIDES HIMSELF from the WISE: THE SOPHON OR WISE ARE.

sophos , , on,
A. skilled in any handicraft or art, clever Margites Fr.2; but in this sense mostly of poets and musicians, Pi.O.1.9, P.1.42, 3.113; en kithara s. E.IT1238 (lyr.), cf. Ar.Ra.896 (lyr.), etc.; tn tekhnn -teros ib.766; peri ti Pl.Lg.696c; glss s. S.Fr.88.10; also en oinois, kithara, E. IT662, 1238 (lyr.);


All of those SECTARIANS imposing instruments into a peaceable church knowing that they will sow discord and force up to half of the OWNERS out of their own synagogue are those who are HATED by God.

Question: do you affirm before God and man that it is acceptable to lie about all of the "instrument" passages when he DOES NOT KNOW or care about the context to deliberately sow massive discord around the world is SOMETHING WE MUST ACCEPT WITHOUT trying to teach those taken captive when there are no preachers who know WHY God connected instruments with the Devil and the effeminate?

Jesus CAST OUT the musical minstrels "like dung" and defined HELL as a place prepared for those who deny the WORDS of Christ in the Prophets and Apostles and substitute MYTHOS which is dogma or that which comes out of their "imagination of man which is only evil continually."

GOD HIDES HIMSELF FROM THE SOPHISTS: makers of songs, sermons and player of instrument: Christ in Isaiah 30 shows that the MARK in sight and sound of God driving His enemies into hell is "wind, string and percussion instruments." If I didn't warn against those eternal enemies who HAD deceived the world then their blood would be on my hands.








 
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199.27.128.82

Not related to the thesis

March 18 2011, 9:26 AM 

Peter made it clear that the WORD for faith and practice is the PROPHETS by the Spirit OF Chris and the Prophecies made more perfect by Jesus Christ. Peter says that this "memory" left for us is not subject to private interpretation or "further expounding."

The FOUNDATION being used to "cast people out of their own synagogue" is the Levites who made noise and never music. Rick's 2 Chronicles 29 message he got from "a" spirit was ONLY during the burning of the GOATS (capella) for a plague-stopping exorcism. Christ in all of the prophets says that God DID NOT commande the king, kingdom, temple, animal sacrifices or the Warrior Levites cursed by Jacob in

Genesis 49.

Jesus calls Scribe and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES by naming mercinary speakers, singers and instrument players: A hypocrite is anyone who CLAIMS the power to "further expound" the Word of Christ.

hupokrinomai 1 2 3 later also aor1 and perf. pass. in mid. sense
I. to reply, make answer, answer, Hom., Hdt. responsive singing
2. to expound, interpret, explain, Od., Ar.:the attic word in this sense is apo-krinomai.
II. of actors, to answer on the stage: hence to play a part, tn Antigonn hupokekritai Dem.; hup. to basilikon to take the king's part, Arist.; hupokr. tragdian, kmdian to play a tragedy, a comedy, id=Arist.; absol. to play a part, be an actor, id=Arist.
2. to represent dramatically: hence to exaggerate, Dem.
3. metaph. to play a part, to feign, pretend, c. inf., id=Dem.


[linked image]
[linked image]


A person PRESUMING to further expound the Word of God in Christ in song or sermon IS THE JUDGE:

krin0 i_ separate, put asunder, distinguish
5. expound, interpret in a particular way, to enupnion taut ekrinan Hdt. 1.120, cf. 7.19, A.Pr.485, etc.:in Med., ho gern ekrinat' oneirous Il. 5.150. Sophon
II. of things, cleverly devised, wise, nomos [man made laws: Legalism]


Jesus said that God HIDES HIMSELF from the WISE: THE SOPHON OR WISE ARE.

sophos , , on,
A. skilled in any handicraft or art, clever Margites Fr.2; but in this sense mostly of poets and musicians, Pi.O.1.9, P.1.42, 3.113; en kithara s. E.IT1238 (lyr.), cf. Ar.Ra.896 (lyr.), etc.; tn tekhnn -teros ib.766; peri ti Pl.Lg.696c; glss s. S.Fr.88.10; also en oinois, kithara, E. IT662, 1238 (lyr.);


All of those SECTARIANS imposing instruments into a peaceable church knowing that they will sow discord and force up to half of the OWNERS out of their own synagogue are those who are HATED by God.

Question: do you affirm before God and man that it is acceptable to lie about all of the "instrument" passages when he DOES NOT KNOW or care about the context to deliberately sow massive discord around the world is SOMETHING WE MUST ACCEPT WITHOUT trying to teach those taken captive when there are no preachers who know WHY God connected instruments with the Devil and the effeminate?

Jesus CAST OUT the musical minstrels "like dung" and defined HELL as a place prepared for those who deny the WORDS of Christ in the Prophets and Apostles and substitute MYTHOS which is dogma or that which comes out of their "imagination of man which is only evil continually."

GOD HIDES HIMSELF FROM THE SOPHISTS: makers of songs, sermons and player of instrument: Christ in Isaiah 30 shows that the MARK in sight and sound of God driving His enemies into hell is "wind, string and percussion instruments." If I didn't warn against those eternal enemies who HAD deceived the world then their blood would be on my hands.








 
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67.142.130.23

The PATTERNISM of Demonism

April 6 2011, 8:47 PM 

The PATTERNISM among the "scholars" promoting musical instruments in the church is clearly derived from the Monarchy which has been turned over to worship the starry host." 2 Chronicles 29 is a message from "the spirit" commanding them to perform INSTRUMENTAL PRAISE and even threatening people who do not obey. They are deliberately leading their enablers into what Paul called DEMON or DEVIL worship.

Jeremiah 7:21 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.
Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
Jeremiah 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying,
....Obey my voice, and I will be your God,
....and ye shall be my people:
....and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you,
....that it may be well unto you.
Jeremiah 7:24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear,
....but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart,
....and went backward, and not forward.
Jeremiah 7:25 Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day
....I have even sent unto you all my servants the prophets,
....daily rising up early and sending them:
Jeremiah 7:26 Yet they hearkened not unto me, nor inclined their ear,
.... but hardened their neck: they did worse than their fathers.
Jeremiah 7:27 Therefore thou shalt speak all these words unto them;
....but they will not hearken to thee
.... thou shalt also call unto them; but they will not answer thee.
Jeremiah 7:28 But thou shalt say unto them,
....This is a nation that obeyeth not the voice of the LORD their God,
....nor receiveth correction:
....truth is perished, and is cut off from their mouth.

The Iamblichus

Of such a character are some of the animals of Egypt, and in the same manner, the human being everywhere is sacred.12 Some of the consecrated victims, however, make the familiar relationship more conspicuous, so far as they affect the analysis in respect to the kindred and more sacred origin of the primitive elements with the Superior (divine) causes. This being accomplished, the benefits which are imparted from it are more perfect.
12. In other words, likely to be a victim at the altar. "As Manetho related, they were used in archaic times to burn living men in the city of Ilithyia, styling them Typhonian." Ashmes, who expelled the Hyk-sos rulers, put an end to the custom. It existed in Asiatic countries,where Semitic worships existed, and even the Hebrews seem not to have been an exception
14. Porphyry and others of the philosophers of that period declared distinctly that the sacrifices of living creatures were not for the gods at all, but for daemons and the lower orders of spiritual essences. Indeed, their sentiments were considered as evidence of a hostility to Judaism. In archaic times, and even in many centuries of the historical period, human victims were immolated, and the Hebrew writings seem to recognize the custom (Leviticus xxvii, 28, 29; Judges xi, 30-40; Micah, vi, 7). Plutarch denounced this practice, and declared his belief that there was never a god that required it, but it was only intended to avert and appease the malice and rancor of evil spirits. The slaughter of hogs at the festivals of Adonis, Osiris and Demites seems to have been of the latter character, as swine were abhorred in Oriental countries.
Paul in 1 Corinthians 10 refers to the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai and says:

1Corinthians 10:18 Behold Israel after the flesh:
....are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?
1Corinthians 10:19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing,
....or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
1Corinthians 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice,
....they sacrifice to devils, and not to God:
....and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.


In Hebrews 13 He writes:

Hebrews 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.
....For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats,
....which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
Hebrews 13:10 We have an altar,
.... whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.
Hebrews 13:11 For the bodies of those beasts,
....whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin,
....are burned without the camp.
Hebrews 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood,
....suffered without the gate.
Hebrews 13:13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.
Hebrews 13:14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.
Hebrews 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually,
....that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.


The "Scholars" believe the Word is silent!

If you are following the PATTERNISM of the sacrificial system you ARE worshiping Demons and you believe the music will appease them. Not so: you are just in a holding pattern.


 
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67.142.130.41

2 Chronicles 33 proves that Ch 33 connects instruments to witchcraft.

April 8 2011, 8:52 PM 

2 Chronicles 33 proves that Instrumental Music patterned by 2 Chronicles 29 is universally understood to be witchcraft or sorcery. The testimony ends with Revelation 17 and the Babylon mother of harlots using the lusted after "fruits" in Revelation 18 as speakers, singers and instrument players. John says that the hypocritic operatives trying to defeat Jesus and His Word HAD deceived the whole world. They have been unleashed by Apollo (Abaddon, Apollyon) as SUN WORSHIP in Jerusalem and in a church near you. They Lake of Fire was prepared for anyone using their own imagination and saying that it is the will of God.

The 100% False Teachers using Hezekiah's Reformclaim that the SPIRIT told them that "God commanded instrumental praise and we should not disobey." This falls BETWEEN the pagan, musical rituals of 2 Chronicles 28 and chapter 33 where music is identified as the Worship of the Sun gods (Apollo, Abaddon, Apollyon). The SACRIFICIAL MUSIC was a PLAGUE STOPPING ceremony used to COLLECT the people close to Jerusalem to protect the KING'S hide. The PROOF TEXT false teachers use proves that they have been seduced by the same demonism.

2 Chronicles 28 speaks of the idolatrous worship
......which had polluted the Temple.
2 Chronicles 29 is a plague stopping animal sacrifice.
......God DID NOT command sacrifices OR the instruments.
2 Chronicles has Manassah restoring the Demonish:
......the words for singing and playing instruments proves
......that it was demonism.

http://www.piney.com/2.Chronicles.33.html

If in doubt read Acts 7 which proves that god ABANDONED Israel to worship the starry host because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai.

I have looked up the Greek and Latin words all of which point to the worship of Apollo (Abaddon, Apollyon) in Revelation. John calls the sorcerers who HAD deceived the whole world.

How can you account for a man willing to lie about all of the Bible and recorded history ONLY causing up to 1/2 of the owners to cast themselves out of their synagogue. To be able to fool even half of the people is the meaning of Lying Wonders: it certainly is a sign.

 
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67.142.130.33

God hides from the WISE: Jesus does not pray for the WORLD

April 17 2011, 9:51 AM 

The problem on both sides of the issue is that they DENY Christ and are indeed ANTI-Christs and blasphemers by hiding from the fact that Christ defined the future REST in inclusive and exclusive terms. Peter affirms that Jesus Christ led by that same Spirit made the prophecies more certain. As Jesus commanded that "we teach that which HE commanded to be taught," in 2 Peter 1-2 Peter outlawed private interpretations or further expoundings: a MARK of a false teacher is that he does not teach "that which is written for our learning." Christ was EXPLICIT: we are just dumb and dumber.

Luke 11:48 Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers:
......for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres.
Luke 11:49 Therefore also said the WISDOM of God,
......I will send them prophets and apostles,
......and some of them they shall slay and persecute:
Luke 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets,
......which was shed from the foundation of the world,
......may be required of this generation;
Luke 11:51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias,
......which perished between the altar and the temple:
......verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

John 6:44 No man can come to me,
......except the Father which hath sent me draw him:
......and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:45 It is written in the prophets,
......And they shall be all taught of God.
......Every man therefore that hath heard,
......and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Baptism is the MARK or SEAL that one is a Disciple of Christ beginning in the Prophets. By being deliberately ignorant of the Prophets they blasphem the Spirit of Christ by denying that He outlawed all of the performing arts and crafts. They further blaspheme by claiming that their vain and evil imagination is the Spirit person speaking to them. Christ defined them in Jeremiah 23.

......Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:
......and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Romans 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

Ephesians 2:20 And are built
......upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets,
......Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men,
......as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Heb. 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners
......spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb. 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,
......whom he hath appointed heir of all things,
......by whom also he made the worlds;

James 5:10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord,
......for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.

1Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently,
......who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time
......the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify,
......when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves,
......but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you
......by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost
......sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

God the One Father in heaven made Jesus of Nazareth to be both Lord and Christ. When the father "breathed" on Jesus as the Son (Word) it was articulated into audible words. Jesus commanded that we teach that which HE commanded to be taught: if they cannot understand that then it is a MARK that God hides himself from the WISE (Sophists: preachers, singers, players, actors) and Jesus will not PRAY for those of the WORLD:

kosmos , metaph., of ornaments of speech, such as epithets, Id.9.9 (pl.), Arist.Rh.1408a14, Po.1457b2, 1458a33; hadumel k. keladein to sing sweet songs of praise, Pi.O.11 (10).13 (s.v.l.).
Pind. O. 11 My tongue wants to foster such themes; [10] but it is by the gift of a god that a man flourishes with a skillful mind, as with anything else. For the present rest assured, Hagesidamus son of Archestratus: for the sake of your boxing victory,
...... I shall loudly sing a sweet song, an adornment for your garland of golden olive,
...... [15] while I honor the race of the Western Locrians.
There, Muses, join in the victory-song; I shall pledge my word to you that we will find there a race that does not repel the stranger, or is inexperienced in fine deeds, but one that is wise and warlike too.


2Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy;
...... whereunto ye do well that ye take heed,
......as unto a light that shineth in a dark place,
......until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
2Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture
......is of any private interpretation. (further expounding)
2Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:
......but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2Pet. 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets,
......and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

 
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67.142.130.17

CENI

April 18 2011, 9:39 AM 

There is no preacher at any scholarly level who knows or needs to know that Christ spoke through the Prophets and Apostles.
Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites and in Ezekiel 33 names self-speakers, singers and instrument players. A hypocrite literally speaks only to those PERFORMIN clergy roles for which they have no ROLE and no DOLE.

It is amazingly prophetic that the "angels of light" make a cottage industry out of tellying the dupes that God never said anything about Commands, Examples and Inferences (CENI). They hold "workshops of evil" and mock those who believe that when Christ speaks it is AFFIRMATIVE: if He says "command them what I have commanded to be taught" He does not have to tell the NON-DELUSIONAL people that "you can ALSO teach out of your evil imagination." This is obviously the WACO SYNDROME

CHRIST SAID OF THOSE WHO BUILD ON THE FOUNDATION OF THE NATIONAL SCRIBES.

Stand in the gate of the Lords house [courts], and proclaim there this word,
......and say, Hear the word of the Lord, all ye of Judah,
......that enter in at these gates to worship the Lord. Jeremiah 7:2

Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel,
......Amend your ways and your doings,
......and I will cause you to dwell in this place. Jeremiah 7:3

Trust ye not in lying words, saying,
......The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord,
......The temple of the Lord, are these. Jeremiah 7:4

Jer. 8:8 How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is WITH US?
......LO, CERTAINLY IN VAIN MADE HE IT;
......THE PEN OF THE SCRIBES IS in vain.

For I spake NOT unto your fathers, nor commanded them
......in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt,
......concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: Jeremiah 7:22

Jer. 23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts,
......Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you:
......they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart,
......and not out of the mouth of the LORD.

Jer 23:17 They say still unto them that despise me,
......The Lord hath said, Ye shall have peace;
......and they say unto every one that walketh
......after the imagination of his own heart,
......No evil shall come upon you.

Despise tthe Word of God of God and using your own words is:

Blasphm-e , pf. A. beblasphmka D.18.10:speak profanely of sacred things, eis theous Pl.R.381e; offer rash prayers,

1. Because Christ as Spirit spoke ONLY through the prophets.
2. Those who use use the pattern of the Lying Pen of the Scribes, in fact despise and ignore the SPIRIT message.
3. Christ in Jeremiah defines that as blasphemy

Hebrew: H5006 nâats naw-ats' A primitive root; to scorn; abhor, (give occasion to) blaspheme, contemn, despise, flourish, X great, provoke.

Any time hyou fabricate (work) a sermon which does not SPEAK that which is written for our learning, and substitute your own self-centered performance, that defines a hypocrite and a blasphemer.



 
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67.142.130.31

The Invasion of the Soul Snatchers

April 26 2011, 3:41 PM 

It is amazing how many young men are out there cutting down the church which gives them an unlawful dole for an unlawful and destructive role.

They take advantage of the blogs etc and spread their venum and are quite able to prevent you from telling them that "the kings have no clothes." Even at graduate schools it seems that they have missed Bible reading 101a.

Jay Guin, Matt Dabbs and the PROGRESSIVE churches of Christ love Danny Corbitt's book which I have reviewed. Here is a sample from Matt Dabb's censored blog:

http://www.piney.com/Danny.Corbitt.Matt.Dabbs.Ripening.Issues.html

No one was so simple minded as to have missed the universal connection between music and making the lambs dumb before the slaughter.

-Xenophon, Socrates, Symposium 2
Habakkuk knew that the superstitious really believed that the musical sounds were the "voice of demons" living inside of the instrument: that is why the Catholics BAPTIZED bells, books, candles and pipe organs.

When the tables had been removed and the guests had poured a libation and sung a hymn, there entered a man from Syracuse, to give them an evening's merriment. He had with him a fine flute-girl, a dancing-girlone of those skilled in acrobatic tricks,and a very handsome boy, who was expert at playing the cither and at dancing; the Syracusan made money by exhibiting their performances as a spectacle

[2] They now played for the assemblage, the flute-girl on the flute, the boy on the cither; and it was agreed that both furnished capital amusement. Thereupon Socrates remarked: On my word, Callias, you are giving us a perfect dinner; for not only have you set before us a feast that is above criticism, but you are also offering us very delightful sights and sounds.

Xen. Sym. 3 After this the boy, attuning his lyre to the flute, played and sang,
......and won the applause of all; and brought from Charmides the remark,
......It seems to me, gentlemen, that, as Socrates said of the wine,
......so this blending of the young people's beauty and of the notes of the music
......lulls one's griefs to sleep and awakens the goddess of Love.

Sure, it is raw lust they use to attract the "bipolars"

This may be the Love we keep hearing about. However, Paul warned:

Ephesians 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise,
......but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
Eph. 5:18 And be not drunk [methun] with wine, wherein is excess;
......but be filled with the Spirit; (The Word of Christ Col 3:16; John 6:63)
Eph. 5:19 Speaking to yourselves
......\ in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,
..........\ singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Eph. 5:20 Giving thanks [praying] always for all things
......UNTO God and the Father
......in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Kat-aule ,A. charm by flute-playing, tinos Pl.Lg.790e, cf. R.411a; tina Alciphr.2.1: metaph., se . . -s phob I will flute to you on a ghastly flute, E.HF871 (troch.):Pass., of persons, methun kai katauloumenos drinking wine to the strains of the flute, Pl.R.561c; k. pros khelnidos psophon to be played to on the flute with lyre accompaniment,




 
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67.142.130.31

The Invasion of the Soul Snatchers

April 26 2011, 3:42 PM 

It is amazing how many young men are out there cutting down the church which gives them an unlawful dole for an unlawful and destructive role.

They take advantage of the blogs etc and spread their venum and are quite able to prevent you from telling them that "the kings have no clothes." Even at graduate schools it seems that they have missed Bible reading 101a.

Jay Guin, Matt Dabbs and the PROGRESSIVE churches of Christ love Danny Corbitt's book which I have reviewed. Here is a sample from Matt Dabb's censored blog:

http://www.piney.com/Danny.Corbitt.Matt.Dabbs.Ripening.Issues.html

No one was so simple minded as to have missed the universal connection between music and making the lambs dumb before the slaughter.

-Xenophon, Socrates, Symposium 2
Habakkuk knew that the superstitious really believed that the musical sounds were the "voice of demons" living inside of the instrument: that is why the Catholics BAPTIZED bells, books, candles and pipe organs.

When the tables had been removed and the guests had poured a libation and sung a hymn, there entered a man from Syracuse, to give them an evening's merriment. He had with him a fine flute-girl, a dancing-girlone of those skilled in acrobatic tricks,and a very handsome boy, who was expert at playing the cither and at dancing; the Syracusan made money by exhibiting their performances as a spectacle

[2] They now played for the assemblage, the flute-girl on the flute, the boy on the cither; and it was agreed that both furnished capital amusement. Thereupon Socrates remarked: On my word, Callias, you are giving us a perfect dinner; for not only have you set before us a feast that is above criticism, but you are also offering us very delightful sights and sounds.

Xen. Sym. 3 After this the boy, attuning his lyre to the flute, played and sang,
......and won the applause of all; and brought from Charmides the remark,
......It seems to me, gentlemen, that, as Socrates said of the wine,
......so this blending of the young people's beauty and of the notes of the music
......lulls one's griefs to sleep and awakens the goddess of Love.

Sure, it is raw lust they use to attract the "bipolars"

This may be the Love we keep hearing about. However, Paul warned:

Ephesians 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise,
......but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
Eph. 5:18 And be not drunk [methun] with wine, wherein is excess;
......but be filled with the Spirit; (The Word of Christ Col 3:16; John 6:63)
Eph. 5:19 Speaking to yourselves
......\ in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,
..........\ singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Eph. 5:20 Giving thanks [praying] always for all things
......UNTO God and the Father
......in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Kat-aule ,A. charm by flute-playing, tinos Pl.Lg.790e, cf. R.411a; tina Alciphr.2.1: metaph., se . . -s phob I will flute to you on a ghastly flute, E.HF871 (troch.):Pass., of persons, methun kai katauloumenos drinking wine to the strains of the flute, Pl.R.561c; k. pros khelnidos psophon to be played to on the flute with lyre accompaniment,




 
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67.142.130.41

John t. Willis

April 30 2011, 9:10 AM 

http://www.piney.com/John.T.Willis.Instrumental.Melody.html

4.30.11 John T. Willis 2. "Sing" is vocal; "make melody" is instrumental. Psalms 33:2-3; 144:9; 149:1, 3 make this crystal clear. Amos 5:23 further verifies this reality. People forget that God turned Israel over to worship the starry host because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. The Levites were under the KING and the COMMANDERS of the army: they made war and not worship. We will examine these passages in context.

 
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192.223.163.6

Satanic Verses

May 9 2011, 11:29 AM 

I guess all the scriptures that speak on using instruments in worship are the Biblical version of "Satanic Verses."

 
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67.142.130.34

How about some examples

May 10 2011, 10:31 AM 

There is no command, example or remote inference that the godly people ever attended a worship service with congregational singing with or without instruments.

God had abandoned Israel to worship the starry host: this worship is Rick's patternism for saying that God commanded instrumental praise. Well, in addition, Christ spoke through the prophets and apostles and HE says that God did not command sacrifices or burnt offerings. Just thinking that this was a God-approved patternism for worship proves that they have never read the text even to get a Phd. I don't believe anyone can have that concept of God and be a Christian.

With David and the recorded examples in the Greek texts, a solo singer sounded the notes on a harp as a performance, often to win a prise. Ancients never gathered to sing as a group: none of the Bible ismetrical and you cannot sing it if your life depended on it.

I am looking for one Church of Christ preacher or scholar who has ever read Acts 7 with comprehension and understands that the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai separated out the tribe of Levi which had been warned about by Jacob in Genesis 49.

Worship in the old testament passages meant to fall on your face and the "praise word" halal is connected to the Levites under the King and commanders of the army: they made war and never worship. A Levite who went into the Holy Place (Nadab and Abihu) for any purpose was to be executed.

Besides, the church is defined by the Campbells and all readers as

Church is A School of Christ
Worship is reading and musing the Word.

That's it: musicians under all pagan sacrificial systems were called parasites and not allowed in polite society. Here is a melody

Do Do Do Re, Do Do Do Re, Do Do Do, re, Do Do Re Re.

I simply cannot believe that a person can have been added to the kingdom of Christ without knowing the meaning of ekklesia or synagogue.

I simply cannot believe that a person can be a Christian who does not know that a Christian is a DISCIPLE of Christ.

I simply cannot believe that a person can be a Christian who does not know that a Disciple does not do ceremonial legalism acts which as music is defined "makes the lambs dumb before the slaughter."

I simply cannot believe that a person can be a Christian who does not know that the curriculum for building up the church is the Prophets (by Christ) and the prophecies made more perfect by Jesus and recorded by the Apostles.

Then they CANNOT know that Christ in the prophets calls them robbers and parasites and uses "music" as that used by false teachers to starve the people for lack of the Word to drive them into captivity.


 
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Jessica N

99.107.73.140

take the plank out of your own eye...

July 18 2011, 11:37 PM 

Ken, you can quote as much scripture as you want at me. Knock yourself out. Don't quit until you're blue in the face. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. I would just like to point out that you are dedicating a huge amount of time to writing very hostile, nasty, condescending letters to anybody that has a single notion different than yours, and you could be so much more effective at leading people to Christ by other means. I can tell these people and issues really upset you. Here's an idea: let God deal with them. He is the only one who has authority to judge. If you want to try to educate people about what you believe, by all means do so; however, to do so WITH LOVE would follow the greatest command. I think you have missed the forest for the trees, brother.

With love,
Jessica

 
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67.142.130.18

The old "love" weapon, huh?

July 19 2011, 9:09 AM 

Sorry, whatever I am or may be the ISSUE is whether you can deliberately discord and take over a church by claiming that God Commands Instrumental Praise. This is an affliction of Biblical proportions by a small band of men who give no evidence that they have ever read the context or their proof text. If the NACC uses these people then I take the liberty of refuting about everything people do in the Name Of Jesus.

I am working on Revelation 12 which affirms the rest of the story that the BEAST is not an animal but vile people deceiving the world with "A new style of singing or drama."

[linked image]
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The ENEMY of Christ at the first advent were Scribes and Pharisees: Jesus called them hypocrites and Christ in the prophets named them slick preachers, singers and instrument players. The Second advent will bethe same:

Rev. 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth,
he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

 
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Phil Starnes

192.223.163.6

One of Many, Many, Many

August 8 2011, 1:53 PM 

It doesn't take much looking.

2 Chronicles 29:25-30 (ESV)

25(AD) And he (Hezekiah) stationed the Levites in the house of the LORD with cymbals, harps, and lyres,(AE) according to the commandment of David and of Gad(AF) the kings seer and of(AG) Nathan the prophet, for the commandment was from the LORD through his prophets. 26The Levites stood with(AH) the instruments of David,(AI) and the priests with the trumpets. 27Then Hezekiah commanded that the burnt offering be offered on the altar. And when the burnt offering began,(AJ) the song to the LORD began also, and the trumpets, accompanied by the instruments of David king of Israel. 28The whole assembly worshiped, and the singers sang, and the trumpeters sounded. All this continued until the burnt offering was finished. 29When the offering was finished,(AK) the king and all who were present with him bowed themselves and worshiped. 30And Hezekiah the king and the officials commanded the Levites to sing praises to the LORD with the words of David and of Asaph the seer. And they sang praises with gladness, and they bowed down and worshiped.

2 Chronicles 31:20,21 (ESV)

20Thus Hezekiah did throughout all Judah,(W) and he did what was good and right and faithful before the LORD his God. 21And every work that he undertook in the service of the house of God and in accordance with the law and the commandments, seeking his God, he did with all his heart, and prospered.


 
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207.65.198.150

Blasphemy is a terrible sin to taste.

August 9 2011, 8:01 PM 

If you take a ONE TIME EVEN during the worship of the starry host as your PATTERNISM and tell your captives that a spirit told him that God commanded instrumental praise in the Synagogue or School of Jesus Christ, you mighrt consider that a supernatural act--just in time.

After Israels musical idolatry at Mount Sinai God turned them over to worship the starry host. The role of Tabernacle was changed and not even a cursed Levite could come near or into any holy place without getting murdered. Since Christ said that God did not commande sacrifices or burnt offerings, the terminal fall from Grace placed the sacrifices ONLY at the door of the Tabernac.e

Josh 22:19 Notwithstanding, if the land of your possession be unclean,
.....then pass ye over unto the land of the possession of the Lord,
wherein the Lords tabernacle dwelleth, and take possession among us:
.....but rebel not against the Lord, nor rebel against us,
.....in building you an altar beside the altar of the Lord our God.
Josh 22:23 That we have built us an altar to turn from following the Lord,
.....or if to offer thereon burnt offering or meat offering,
.....or if to offer peace offerings thereon, let the Lord himself require it;

To keep a plague from breaking out:

Josh 22:26 Therefore we said,
.....Let us now prepare to build us an altar,
.....not for burnt offering, nor for sacrifice:

When the elders fired God and demanded a king like the nations it was to worship like the nations. Neither the king, kingdom, temple, altar or sacrifices were commanded. Please read Isaiah 1 and Jeremiah 7 to hear Christ's side of the story since He has marked your king as blaspheming the Holy Spirit of Christ.

God's Tabernacle at Shiloah was a WITNESS and not to appease God. David made his OWN temt in Jerusalem.

The so-called command of God did NOT extend to the Burnt Goats (Cappellas) for Israel.
Only during this BURNING OF THE GOATS (first imposed after Nadab-Abihu) top appease Azazel or the devil did the LEVITES make a great crashing noise to signal the BEGINNING and ending of the GOAT BURNING. The Instrumental NOISE was Commanded by DAVID. Try reading again without looking for something to save you from burning.

Christ said that GOD did not command it and clearly when the Levites PLAYED it was by the Command of David. Please go back to remedial reading. If you say that God commanded the NOISE from which the godly people were QUARANTINED outside of the city gates, when Christ said that God HAD NOT commanded any sacrifices then Christ says that you have BLASPHEMED the Holy Spirit.

http://www.piney.com/Blasphemy.Against.The.Holy.Spirit.html

When Christ defines baptism in Isaiah 1 DENIES your preacherling's folly and MARKED how to identify strong delusions and lying wonders. As Israel ROSE UP against God in musical idolatry as a sin without redemption, Christ affirms:

Isaiah 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
Isaiah 1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel,
.....ye shall be devoured with the sword:
.....for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Nlo, nli , nolle (not to wish, to be unwilling.
Pr-vco , 1. To call out, challenge, invite one to any thing
(as to play, sing, drink, fight, etc.): provocat me in aleam, challenged me to a game, S. 1, 10:
You Provoke God:aliquem cantatum, Ter.

Canto , vi, tum, 1, v. n. and
I. a. [cano], freq. in form, but mostly agrees in meaning with cano.
I. Neutr., to produce melodious sounds (by the voice or an instrument), to sound, sing, play (class. in prose and poetry; rare in Cic.). manum histrioni, in comedy, to sing and play while the actor accompanies the song with gestures or dancing, L
2. Of the singing pronunciation of an orator,


After all Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees (fleecing widows) hypocrites and Christ in Ezekiel 33 named preachers, singers and instrument players.

The BEAST in Revelation is not quadraped animal. Theiron incluses "A new style of singing or drama." God always gives us a way of escape and the Babylon Mother of Harlots has got the speakers, singers and instrument players (sorcerers) under her couch: John said that they will go alive into the Lake of Fire: just what Christ promised in Isaiah 30. But, who is reading?


 
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207.65.198.150

Warning: Scribes lie and musicate!

August 9 2011, 8:42 PM 

2 Chronicles 31:20,21 (ESV)

20Thus Hezekiah did throughout all Judah,(W) and he did what was good and right and faithful before the LORD his God. 21And every work that he undertook in the service of the house of God and in accordance with the law and the commandments, seeking his God, he did with all his heart, and prospered.


Maybe someone will show us where the Law commanded a king, kingdom temple and Levites under the KING and COMMANDERS OF THE ARMY making noise during the slaughter of innocent animals."

If you think that the Scribes lied (Jesus called them hypocrites) minimizes inspiration you missed Old Testament 101aa which none of the "scholars" grasped either. If a group has been abandoned to worship the starry host and the Jews understood that Jerusalem was about Star and Serpent worship then what did we miss in card class that makes people willing to deliberately sow discord and "steal the church houses of widows" trying to justify the WORSHIP OF THE STARRY HOST in Texas? Is Jerusalem is called Sodom and a city set on seven hills and the "mother of harlots" why would you follow anyone to restore Jerusalem especially when the Plague happened when the king took the sacrifices our from behind closed gates where it was quarantined with a plague p;romised if you "flashed" the evil thing?

The same Christ which said that God DID NOT COMMAND sacrifices and YOU cannot find any musical worship in the Law of Moses, then trust Christ and not your changeling:

Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, are these. Jeremiah 7:4

For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings;
if ye thoroughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour; Jeremiah 7:5

If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow,
and shed not innocent blood in this place,
neither walk after other gods to your hurt: Jeremiah 7:6

Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever. Jeremiah 7:7

Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit. Jeremiah 7:8

Jer. 8:7 Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but my people know not the judgment of the LORD.

Jer. 8:8 How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is WITH US? LO, CERTAINLY IN VAIN MADE HE IT; THE PEN OF THE SCRIBES IS in vain.


In all recorded records, falling into musical idolatry when you meet under the name of God is a TERMINAL SIN: you have fallen and can never get back up.

NO ONE IN RECORDED HISTORY BEFORE THE RECENT SPAWN OF PERFORMERS OUT OF ONCE-CHRISTIAN COLLEGES WERE SO DEVOID OF BIBLICAL AND COMMON SENSE:

Cyril of Alexandria, Commentary on John,

That the Pharisees puffed up unto strange boasting,
were wont to pretend that the Divine Word was with them and in them,
and therefore foolishly affirmed that they had advanced to marvellous wisdom,
the Spirit Itself will testify,
since Christ says by the Prophet Jeremiah unto them,
How do ye say, WE are wise, and the word of the Lord is with us?
For nought to the scribes became their lying pen;
the wise men were ashamed, were dismayed and taken;
what wisdom is in them? because they rejected the word of the Lord.

For how are they not taken rejecting the Living and Hypostatic Word of God, receiving not the faith to Him-ward,
but dishonouring the Impress of God the Father, and refusing to behold His most true Form (so to say)
through His God-befitting Authority and Power?


 
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Phil Starnes

192.223.163.6

That's What I Thought

December 13 2011, 1:07 PM 

Yep, just as I thought -- "Satanic Verses."

 
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207.65.198.103

The Book of Hebrews

August 10 2011, 11:25 AM 


Communications from Bruce indicates that he is not convinced that the king, kingdom, sacrifices and the warrior Levites was Gods abandonment intead of Gods old pattern. Since Psallo never had any musical melody connection, 2 Chronicles 29 is the PROOF that the not-commanded Burnt Offeing of the Goats as a way to appease Israel was a spirit telling them that God now commands instrumental praise. I cant find an e-mail for bruce so maybe someone can supply.

We were discussing Hebrews so I have collected the whole book of Hebrews on one page for easier discussion:

http://www.piney.com/The.Book.Of.Hebrews.html

I have posted 2 Chronicles 29 in two places proving that when they PLAYED the instruments ONLY for the burnt-offering of Goats as a POLITICAL APPEASEMENT, the instruiments as always were COMMANDED BY DAVID under the King and Commanders of the army.

http://www.piney.com/2.Chronicles.29.html

http://www.piney.com/MuChron2925.html

The Levites STOOD in miliary ranks ABSOLUTELY SILENT while the non-goats were offered for an ATONEMENT which is not worship.

 
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Dave

130.127.43.117

You Going Down!

July 20 2011, 3:37 PM 

Jessica,
Don't go there with love. These boys here will take you down for that one. They believe that to implore love with you message is degrading, to say the least. Jesus didn't smile, or sing, and He surely didn't love, according to Ken and his comrades.

 
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Ken Sublett

99.197.222.189

Lipscomb University: Hell and Mister Fudge

August 27 2014, 4:37 PM 

No, Ken is never well: busy.

http://www.piney.com/Lipscomb.University.Summer.Celebration.2014.Insights.From.Joshua.html

Lipscomb University lets those BUY AND SELL who have declared themselves ANTI-Church of Christ defined in wilderness with a one-piece pattern. This permitted even the Gentiles who attended the synagogue--and never worship at the temple--to be wise unto salvation.

Edward Fudge owns the INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC drive: as do all of those permitted to BUY AND SELL.
Edward Fudge denies the role or length of hell "for ever and ever"
Edward fudge and the other discorders were back this year for a final word denying hell.

We may not understanding the meaning of Hell or the Lake of Fire.
We may not understand how long is "for ever and ever."
We can be DOGMATICALLY certain that ALL of those who are CAST ALIVE INTO THE LAKE of fire are the Speakers, Singers and instrument players Scripture and ancient literature mark as SORCERERS who HAD deceived the whole world.

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that PREACH him, being READ in the synagogues every sabbath day.


This is because God quarantined the godly Jews from the Jacob-cursed and God-abandoned tribe of Levi. Having refused to listen to God outlaw any any "vocal or instrumental rejoicing" in Exodus 31, they rose up to play in Exodus 32 meaning singing, playing instruments and playing with one another. God made them blind and deaf until "another prophet" like Moses came.

2Cor. 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the READING of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

2Cor. 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is READ, the vail is upon their heart.

2Cor 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.


Because doctors of the law are BLIND AND DEAF they cannot grasp the clear statement:

2Cor 3:17 Now the Lord IS that Spirit: and where the Spirit OF the Lord is, there is liberty.


And the continuing SINGULAR ROLE is and will be:

2Cor 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit OF the Lord.


And the only DIRECT COMMAND and authority Paul gave anyone to handles His Scriptures:

Col. 4:16 And when this epistle is READ among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.


Christ told how to RESTORE THE OLD PATHS in the Prophets but Lipscomb choose to RESTORE the church based on the book of Joshua!

http://www.piney.com/John.Mark.Hicks.Stepping.into.Gods.Future.html

Pretending that Joshua and the people were quaking cowards, John asks with a straight face.

"So, why did Israel linger three days at Jordan’s shore? Why were they intimidated by this river? significant moment in the story of Joshua.


Still able to obey the command to read that which is written about the REAL Joshua:

Josh. 1:9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage;
....be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed:
....for the LORD thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest.
Josh. 1:10 Then Joshua commanded the officers of the people, saying,
Josh. 1:11 Pass through the host, and command the people,
....saying, Prepare you victuals
....for within three days ye shall pass over this Jordan,
....to go in to possess the land, which the LORD your God GIVETH you to possess it.


So, the Lipscomb University using "theology" to read beyond the sacred pages says that the people were COWARDS.
God told Joshua to prepare victuals and get ready in three days.

Josh. 4:12 And the children of Reuben, and the children of Gad, and half the tribe of Manasseh,
....passed over armed before the children of Israel, as Moses spake unto them:
Josh. 4:13 About forty thousand prepared for war passed over before the LORD unto battle,
....to the plains of Jericho.


Why do you suppose people are PURPOSE DRIVEN as Doctors of the Law "to take away the key to knowledge?" Jesus said THAT IS THEIR JOB.

 
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Ken Sublett

99.197.222.189

Re: Some Follow up of Richland: Lipscomb University approves of "Hell and Mister Fudge."

August 29 2014, 10:02 AM 

Concerned Members went online when the Madison Purpose Driven agents slipped and revealed their plot to turn Madison into "a theater for holy entertainment" while making the "old owners" think they were going in a different direction. The Serpent (serpo) in the garden of Eden (Christ calls the singing and harp-playing prostitute) defines the "crooked" race including a winding form of speech or singing: like a gradually spreading fire you don't notice until you wake up dead.

The TARGET date around the year 2000 (a date in prophecy) for unleashing the Hostile Takeover fits perfectly with the 9/11 date both dates which will live in infamy.

ISIS is the mother-spirit of the Egyptian trinity. Because Osiris' penis could never be found, she is the virgin mother-harlot a member of all trinities as ANTI-Christian.

Phil. 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
Phil. 3:3 For we are the circumcision,
which worship God IN the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus,
and have no confidence in the flesh.

They are marked as Christ prophesied in Isaiah 3.

Fēmĭnĕus II.Transf., with an accessory notion of contempt, womanish, effeminate, unmanly:

Gallus A. Galli , orum, m., the priests of Cybele, so called because of their raving, Of or belonging to the priests of ISIS ,


They worshipped Isis under the IMAGE of the golden Calf (beast, Demon)
Edward Fudge has been the Leader of the PACK of preachers and bloggers using the MARK of Instrumental Music even claiming that "a" spirit guided them in the words of Fudge "beyond the sacred pages." "Will Jesus find faith when He returns?" No, almost none but that fits the pattern of Jesus sent to seek lost spirits and put them into a "safe house" or church antithetical to your institutions staffed with performers "to make the lambs dumb before the slaughter."

The NACC agents use the language of violence against the ANTI-instrumental churches." These are people will not stop speaking where all known history speaks: Just Shut up in the words of Russ Adcox. They propose taking an AXE to the ANTI instrumental position. You are SAFE if you affirm that they were correct to try to prove instruments as late as 1878 with no success or at least SHUT YOUR MOUTH and "let's just get along."

Edward Fudge takes pride and credit in bringing about the DEATH OF A DISTINCTIVE.

http://www.piney.com/Fudge.Death.Distinctive.html

Christ outlawed "vocal or instrumental rejoicing" for the synagogue or Church of Christ (the Rock) in the wilderness so they could hear the COVENANT PREACHED by being READ each REST day.

Edward Fudge and by approval of Lipscomb and other once-Bible colleges calls NOT using instruments an invented DISTINCTIVE, tradition, heritage.

Because that despises the Word, Christ in Jeremiah 23 calls that blasphemy.

http://www.piney.com/Edward.Fudge.No.Everlasting.Punishment.html

[linked image]


 
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Ken Sublett

99.197.222.189

JOE SHULAM: Says Jesus died to restore the LAW OF MOSES

September 2 2014, 6:24 PM 

Most "mega churches" or "progressive churches" fulfill prophecy defined by the beginning Jerusalem as the "mother of harlots" and called "Sodom." That includes a dominate and dominating "king set over us" followed by building a pyramid or ziggurat type organization of STAFF for any imaginate task and filling up your "free time" with programs decidedly anti-Biblical.

Messianic Jews claim that Messiah just made the LAW OF MOSES more certain and that Jews still considered superior and chosen must follow the pattern of God turning the people over to worship the starry host.

You have to be Purpose Driven to be ANTI-Christ who defined the New Covenant made possible only after the Jew's covenant with death and hell was destroyed. Joe Shulam and those who support him claim that God planned and executed the murder of Jesus and the Jews by participated MADE SALVATION POSSIBLE to the Gentiles. In truth, only when the laded burden and burden laders were removed was it possible for both Jews and Gentiles to be SAVED FROM THAT CROOKED RACE.

[linked image]
[linked image]


 
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Ken Sublett

99.197.222.189

Re: Some Follow up of Richland: Lipscomb University approves of "Hell and Mister Fudge."

September 3 2014, 10:38 AM 

Rubel Shelly as the foundation upon which much of the apostasy was built and John York did a series on Exodus as the PATTERN for the Church as a community meaning commune.

Now, Lipscomb University is using Joshua as the pattern they believe God commanded the Jews or defacto Egyptians to move into Canaan and slaughter all of the owners and confiscate their property. That is the Purpose Driven Cult pattern to "infiltrate and divert" and Carrol D. Osburn's pattern for feminist theology using "small acts of treachery."

http://www.piney.com/WinRSExComm.html

Consistent with the FACTS in most modern "churches" York and Shelly insists that "Individuals lose their right to read, interpret or speak the Word OUTSIDE of the community (commune) reading." That reading is that of the now-dominant preacher person unable to read the Word by the operation of God Who sends strong delusions.

That is the Community Church of Family of God plot they tried in my town.

Consistent with the feminists (Fuller) theology at LU using Ignatian Retreats to ignore the written WORD and get a message directly from someone. In the Jew's covenant with death and hell (Amos) they held religious festivals WITH and FOR dead ancestors. The LU head says that there was nothing wrong with their WORSHIP: they just had a bad mental attitude.

[linked image]

Armageddon in the spiritual realm is not the War of the world but the War of Words. Organon or a musical instrument for doing hard work mostly in making war.

 
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Ken Sublett

99.197.222.189

Lipscomb--Hell and Mr Fudge--marked by MUSIC part A

September 4 2014, 11:23 AM 

We have noted that the Lipscomb powers allow those to BUY and SELL marks of the prophesied End time:

The MERCHANTS (corrupters of the Word) either TEACH or AFFIRM by participating the use of what they call "instrumental music in worship."

Long time Endorsement of Edward Fudge who claims some honor in destroying church of Christ "distinctives" (a lie word) as instrumental music.

Edward Fudge is a man of fame for making "for ever and ever" and "in this world and the world (aion) to come" mean just a short for ever and ever.

He denies and the "buy and sell approved list" must AFFIRM the historic or traditional or Before.Me Age that the Spirit as recorded and preserved for thousands of years just didn't know what He (God) was talking about.

HOWEVER, we have asserted the fact that using INSTRUMENTAL MACHINES FOR MAKING NOISE which dissociates the mind (sorcery) and Makes Jesus the Lamb and all of their collectivized PAYING AUDIENCE dumb before the slaughter is the CAUSE or MARK of God removing His LAMPS in preparation for CASTING THEM ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.

The SOUNDS--LIKE HARPS and other PANIC-CREATING SOUNDS they claim is "a" spirit's command for them to impose instrumental performance within CONTEXT shows that it is a SIGN OF JUDGMENT, TIME IS SHORT, SO PREACH THE GOSPEL which includes no music or Musicators.

[linked image]

 
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Ken Sublett

99.197.222.189

Stephen warns about the prophetic type of hell

September 9 2014, 5:53 PM 

The Spirit OF Christ in Isaiah 30 said that God drives His enemies into "HELL" to the sound of wind, string and percussion instruments.

These are the same instruments Lucifer the singing and harp-playing prostitute brought into the Garden of Eden.

One of the "gods" they worshipped was Moloch in whose red hot arms the Jews burned infants while the clergy beat on instruments.

Stephen alerted the Clergy to the fact that God had ABANDONED them and not COMMANDED them to worship the starry host.

[linked image]
[linked image]

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

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This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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