I am going to tell the truth. The honest to goodness truth of what is going on and why. You won't like it and you won't want to believe it. It's so simple. It's so serious and it's so insidious.

For those of you who find it “evil” or “divisive” to disagree with the changes, I remind you that as Christians, we are mandated to confront unauthorized actions in the Church. If we do not, we will be held accountable. You will not keep me from Heaven.

Before I state the truth, I must ask all of you if you believe the Word is God inspired? If not, then you may not want to read further for you are already lost and cannot understand.
I have not quoted scripture as I feel many of you dismiss the scriptures and if not, you know the verses I am discussing!

I will ask you to remember a few very important facts of the Word, they will be important in the end:

1) Jesus and the Apostles taught us that it is sinful to be a "stumbling block".
2) We are also taught that it only takes just a few pieces of salt to ruin the water. Or in other words, only a small amount of mistruth can lead us from the one true path.
3) Any non-authorized action that causes division in the body of Christ is sinful.
4) We have been given a mandate to follow Christ's teachings. We are to be as the original Christians were. Worship is to be reverent, quiet, contemplative, full of praise and singing.

____________________________________________________________

This latest division in the Church began with members my age (early to mid 40's). You see, in the early 80's we had become disillusioned with the Church as it was. So much had not been explained to us as youths and when we entered the "real" world, we were in cultural shock. Of course, it didn't take us long to adjust to the world. We became part of it without even meaning to. We believed we were still Christians but in truth, we fell away by the droves.

We realized that Christians had all kinds of adult problems that were hidden (and still are today). Nobody in the Church admitted to being a social drunk, adulterer, porno addict, gambler, liar, thief, etc. Not a C of C'er! Why, we were the perfect Christians. If you admitted to such and turned back to the fold, you were judged and whispered about behind your back. So, who would actually admit to such behaviors?

We were envious of the large non-denominational churches. It was the talk of the youth. We wanted what they had – Christianity without Guilt. They didn't have a long list of No-No's like the c of C. Of course, we couldn't join them. They obviously didn't follow the scriptures when it came to salvation. But it did make us think that our parents were behind the times and we were much smarter. Didn't we have a better understanding of the Bible? Hadn't we been to college and taught how to read the scriptures?

So, what's a young Christian to do? Rebel, of course. Start a revolution. Move slowly but methodically. Create change agents. Create confusion. Gain entry. It was so easy. Churches were losing their youth right and left. To have us return with all this enthusiasm and new ideas was refreshing and invigorating. We revitalized the Church!

Oh, I forgot. Along the way we kind of dismissed the actual Word of God. You see, it didn't fit what we wanted and needed. We knew that. We talked about it and we dismissed the guilt. All these preachers you guys think are so wonderful with their "new enlightened understanding" of the Word are fakes. You heard me. Fakes. They are no surer of the truth behind what they are preaching than you are. They are not "God", they are not "without faults", they are just men (or in some cases lately, women). Take it from a preacher's daughter, they are just men. They are not "inspired" and they have not come upon a new understanding of the Bible. The Greek and Hebrew texts have been studied since the first Christians – there is nothing new going on here.

Don't believe me? Do a little historical research into Christianity. You will be amazed at what you discover. Think these are new issues? Forget it. The flapper age kids rebelled just exactly as we did. And so did young adults throughout the ages. Try reading the OT sometime.

Unfortunately, our rebellion has cost the Church. Because of instant communication, the problems have spread further and wider than ever before. Most of us are now the ones who are against the "new worship" and we are just starting to stand up and be noted. It took us awhile to realize how serious the issue was. We are now older and more mature. We now read the Word for God's intentions and not our own. Wow, did we mess things up.

Here are some truths that may irritate you but are in fact, Biblical and well documented by non-inspired historical evidence:

1) Instrumental Music Controversy

The NT Christians did NOT use instruments in service, nor did the early Catholics or other denominations. The Catholic Church notes in their early historical commentaries how sinful and full of Satan the instruments were. It wasn't until around 900-1,000 AD that some of the Catholic Churches allowed an organ. And it wasn't until around the 1500's that a musical instrument became common place in their churches.
In 354 A.D, AUGUSTINE described the singing at Alexandria under Athanasius: "musical instruments were not used. The pipe, tabret, and harp here associate so intimately with the sensual heathen cults, as well as with the wild revelries and shameless performances of the degenerate theater and circus, it is easy to understand the prejudices against their use in the worship." Well, that does explain a lot!

So, what about Ephesians 5:19? Some of you have used the Greek meaning of Psalms to mean "plucking of an instrument" as your one source for authority of instruments. First of all, you have been misinformed of the true meaning of the Greek word for Psalms. The reference to Psalms as “accompanied by instruments” was made by Aristotle and used around the time of 350 BC. Note that is in BC!!! Before that it didn't even refer to singing or an instrument. Around the NT times, the universal meaning was "to sing without an instrument".

A.T. Robertson, one of the most highly acclaimed Greek scholars, explains the meaning of psallo thus: "...originally meant to play on strings, then to sing with an accompaniment, and here apparently to sing without regard to an instrument." Hence, Robertson is of the opinion that the word does not imply instrumental music in the New Testament. As usual, the meaning of the word changed through time (you might want to look at our word “gay” for an example of change within just 20 years).

Also, a simple reading of Ephesians 5:19 should be conducted. It does not state to "play" in psalms but to "speak" in psalms. How on earth did that get so messed up? It took a lot of effort on someone's part! Speak = play?

I could write a book on the historical facts that provide ample evidence that musical instruments were considered sinful and unauthorized by God. There is no historical evidence for instrumental music until many, many generations after the first Christians. I ask myself, who would have had the greatest knowledge of what Christ intended and the Apostles preached? The first Christians or their descendents?

So, if God didn't authorize musical instruments, is such a divisive issue sinful? Yes!
God abhors non-authorized issues that cause division in the Church.
Who needs the instruments? God or man?
Well, obviously God is not in need, so that leaves only man.
Does the debate cause Christians to stumble or lose faith? Yes! Therefore, it is an issue that should not be a part of the Church. It is divisive and a stumbling block to those in the Church.
If you continue to demand and try to insist on musical instruments, are you behaving in an unChristian manner? Yes you are.
Personally, I would ask myself why I had such a strong need for musical instruments. Why would I want something that causes such division and hurt? Who is it benefiting? You may want to think long and hard on that question as the answer should scare you.

2) Women as Deacons in the Church

I shouldn’t even have to answer these issues. The Bible is so simple and clear. That we have to go hunt up obscure Greek text that is non-definitive is sad. Why is this an issue? Did women not learn from Eve’s own sin? Do we just ignore Paul’s teachings? If we do, then what parts of the Bible do we trust?

The Bible (Greek version) does NOT support women as holding the office of Deacon. In fact, it would be hard to be such as you must be married to one woman and we all know how God feels about homosexuality. So, there is no confusion on what sex a Deacon is.

So, what about Phoebe (and other women of the NT)? Viewing the text as a whole easily clarifies that Phoebe is an important part of the Church. Thus, women are intrinsic to the Church as servants. We are important in so many roles. However, being a Deacon, Minister or Elder is not authorized. You can try and twist the use of the Greek meaning, but then you would have to change how it is used throughout the Bible. The Greek word diavkono" is a double-terminal noun. It is meant to address men and women “servants of the church” and not the specific position of Deacon.

Again, I ask the same questions:
Are women authorized to hold the position of Deacon(ess) in the Bible? Clearly not.
So, is it a sin to be a Deaconess? Clearly Yes!
Is the attempt to push such a position onto a Church that is scripturally against such a position divisive? Most certainly.

Why is this so important to women that they push for something that is clearly not allowed (if you open your heart and mind to the Word and see it clearly)? Because as a strong-willed woman, I understand the desire to want to be in charge. Men can be so slow and obtuse sometimes. We just want to get in there and do it ourselves. It would be so much simpler. But would it be correct? Absolutely Not! God has ordained what roles we are to play in the Church. We are NOT to teach men, act as Elders or Deaconesses, or hold authority over men in the Church. We are not to speak out during the actual worship service. Again, unless you want to throw out all of Paul’s teachings, you can’t dismiss his very clear comments on women and the Church. Get over it and live with it! It’s our cross to bear. Stop listening to Satan tell you that it isn’t true and man has been feeding false information. He did so with Eve and look where it got her!

3) Servants instead of Deacons

Ok, I have only one comment for the lack of Deacons in the Church. Just throw the whole Book away. You’re not using it anyway. I can’t even comprehend how grown, semi-intelligent leaders of the Church could come up with that one. We have a Church (?) in our area that did the same thing and the Preacher cannot validate his reasoning. It’s just because that’s how the members felt it should be. I’m sorry, who is the ruling authority? Oh, that’s right, God. Hmm…wonder what he has to say about removing a position in the Church he created? Wow, I guess you’ll get to ask him one day. Scary.

I could go on about all the changes in the Church today. However, there is only one issue that should be addressed. How are we different than the early Church? How can we correct our differences and return to what GOD intended and not man? How quick can we do so because or soul relies on this!

Just because Satan has gotten to such ex-Church Leaders as Max Lucado and Rubel Shelley does not mean he can get all of us. Max was gone years ago. Ask any of us from the San Antonio area. It’s been the “Max Lucado Church” for years. Even his own congregation admits he doesn’t follow the Bible. Well, that’s obvious since he has left it behind. I just wish my friends would leave – they no longer are sure what is right or wrong. But they just love the friendships they have developed and the lack of boundaries they must abide by. If they go to another Church they will have to start really studying the Bible again. What?????!!!!!

Step back and look at the overall picture. Who is in charge? Who’s Will are we following? If it’s not God’s (all of God’s) then we are failing. We are lost.

That is the absolute truth and I commend you for being able to make BOLD ASSERTIONS which the "enemy" must DISPROVE before they have the authority to deliberately sow discord. I commend you for putting it so that NOT EVEN the "band of merry" discorders can missunderstand. Their ENABLERS [in tithes and offerings and attendance] have to decide whether they will accept the CERTAIN Guilt by Association and support for one of the WORST cases of people being able to GRASP control while not being able to do BIBLE SPEAK. Then, Paul indicated that "Fools love to be fooled" and that is why God has NO GRACE for the BLIND willing to be led by the BLIND.

You made the factual statement that when you fail to believe the Word God takes away from that TALENT He has trusted you with. In the best case, those who are doing as much as we could expect ANTI-Christ to do are DUPES like Judas. In the WORST case they must KNOW that their whole scheme is based on deliberately LYING. The claim to have consulted the "Holy Spirit Person" to get divine permission to violate clear commands CANNOT be believed. If Max Lucado--the great fictionalizer--gets a VISION then he is the recipient of a GRAND DELUSION if the Spirit told him to rip the name of Christ off the sign. Strong delusions always come through strong deluders.

So, what about Ephesians 5:19? Some of you have used the Greek meaning of Psalms to mean "plucking of an instrument" as your one source for authority of instruments. First of all, you have been misinformed of the true meaning of the Greek word for Psalms. The reference to Psalms as "accompanied by instruments" was made by Aristotle and used around the time of 350 BC. Note that is in BC!!! Before that it didn't even refer to singing or an instrument. Around the NT times, the universal meaning was "to sing without an instrument".

I have some references but have not found a parallel Greek/English proof for Aristotle. But, your point is that PSALLO never means to PLAY an instrument to congregational singing. The SOUND of the PLUCK could be anything which makes a sound. Furthermore, the word used by the "spirit" person to inform "ME and the elders" limits the plucking to the FINGERS and secificially EXCLUDES using a pick or plectrum.

There is no true DEFINITION using the word. Rather, we have DIFFERENT writers using it to define DIFFERENT things at DIFFERENT TIMES. Here are some of the things I have found with and without links to the originals:

Aeschylus (525-456 B.C.), the Greek playwright, used the word of "plucking HAIR" (Persae, p. 1062). [There is a lot of resources proving that the instrumentalists were usually professionals at festivals which were always 'worship.' A male singer, dancer or instrumentalists was usually perverted. There were professional HAIR PLUCKERS to make sure that they--usually young boys--were suitable.]

Euripides (480-460 B.C.?), another Greek writer, spoke of "twanging" the BOWSTRING (Bacchae, p. 784). [These events, too, are closely associated with perverted rituals where warriors plucked their thousands of bowstrings as musical DISCORDERS.]

Psallo was used of "twitching" the carpenter's line so as to leave a MARK (Anthologia Palatine, 6.103).

IN Plutarch (AD 46-119) the verb also could convey the sense of "plucking" the strings of an instrument (Pericles 1.6).

Of course, all of these wrote in ATTIC Greek and all apply it to perverted rituals. The MUSICAL connection is based on playing the HEART-STRINGS and "shooting out hymns." I used to hear Kate Smith BELT out songs.

In ALL of the much later uses of PLUCKING it tells you MORE about those on their VISIONARY QUEST then they REALLY want us to know.

* Plutarch, Life of Pericles.
[4] Such objects are to be found in virtuous deeds; these implant in those who search them out a great and zealous eagerness which leads to imitation. In other cases, admiration of the deed is not immediately accompanied by an impulse to do it. Nay, many times, on the contrary, while we delight in the work, we despise the workman, as, for instance, in the case of perfumes and dyes; we take a delight in them, but dyers and perfumers we regard as illiberal and vulgar folk.

[5] Therefore it was a fine saying of Antisthenes, when he heard that Ismenias was an excellent piper: "But he's a worthless man," said he, "otherwise he wouldn't be so good a piper." And so Philip2 once said to his son, who, as the wine went round, plucked the strings charmingly and skilfully,

"Art not ashamed to pluck the strings so well?" It is enough, surely, if a king have leisure to hear others pluck the strings, and he pays great deference to the Muses if he be but a spectator of such contests.

The king/queen of Babylon went into Sheol to rot on a bed of MAGGOTS along with the harps and harpists. I believe that NAP TIME is about over and the WORM is about to turn. Nothing so JUDGMENTALLY CONDEMNED the musical idolaters at Mount Sinai than for God to tell them that the watching world saw them as a LAUGHING STOCK. When they tell you that they GET VISIONS and spend years getting the SPIRIT to agree with what Rick OUTED about 14 years ago about women in ministry, they you must understand that when God pours out his WRATH, the term in Hebrew means to turn people into BUFFOONS. It is all FICTION and a bad plot at that: don't feed them. When I have tried to listen to Rick on the computer I HEAR spiritual warfare and one suspects that the ELDERS have been worn down by one of a handful who CANNOT write on these issues without proving that he has no knowledge base or CONCERN for what the Bible says and 2,000 of church theology agrees is what the BIBLE says.

Ken

I really dont understand what you guys mean when you talk about no instruments in worship. I thought true worship was an expression of your love for the one who gave his life for you. If instruments enhance it why not use them? I like to offer up the best I have to my Lord. He sees my heart and knows my inter-most thoughts and they are thoughts of him not of pagan gods or rituals. Its pure, and holy. And if people want to come together in one mind and one accord and offer up praise and worship by words, deeds, song or instrument who are we to judge whats going up. it is offered to God. At first this article confussed me but know I come to realize that no one knows the cost of my worship but me and the Lord. NO, he desires it. David playd on his harp and God looked at his heart. I not bound by the law, I am covered by grace. My father is holy, and loving,he cares about his children and I beleive when his children offer up their love to him he is pleased. Unity, and brotherly are just as important. Jesus is coming back for a spotless bride. if your heart is right you will hear him when he calls. Church reform starts with me. Perfection is giving the best you have. I would be slow to judge what others offer - Lest God rejects what we offer.Pray that the blinders will fall from our eyes so we can see the fathers heart.

majoring in minors

What do we have that God needs? Do you really believe that God is impressed by people singing NON-God songs in a mind-altering manner to make themselves feel good. God owns all of the cows on a thousand hills: wouldn't giving God a cow to burn on the Lord's table be more SACRIFICIAL than singing songs you love to sing for your own pleasure?

Paul uses only ONE clear worship word: that means to GIVE HEED to the Word of God: you SPEAK it one to another as a way to TEACH and LEARN "that which is written." Paul's definition of the ekklesia (church) where Timothy acted as an evangelists: "Give attendance to the (public) reading of the Word" and then to exhorting people to obey that read portion and explaining any unclear teaching in 'that read portion.' That had not changed from the church in the wilderness where God outlawed instrumental noise or "making a joyful noise before the Lord." This, like all of the instruments, was commanded for the warriors because that was a way to send signals and create panic to cause the enemy to flee.

I have posted another study today which proves that the MUSIC word always speaks of warfare or perverted pagan singers. Only as a metaphor did people speak of "shooting out songs" usually to deceive someone to pick their pocket (collection plates) or to arrouse them sexually.

The ekklesia is a school of the Bible and its only defined ACT of worship is to read and teach and meditate on GOD'S word. After all, if you sng and learn and give attention to Twila Paris' songs then you are worshiping Twila Paris.

It took about 373 years before anyone imposed the ACT of singing and that to sing non-Biblical songs: that violated the LAW which says SPEAK and using 'that which is written' to teach GOD'S words.

A musical instrument is a "machine for doing hard work or for producing shock an awe on the battlefield or pagan worship center.

Isa 2:7 Their land also is full of silver and gold, neither is there any end of their treasures; their land is also full of horses, neither is there any end of their chariots:

Isa 2:8 Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made:

All pagans believed that musical instruments were the idol or the HOUSE of an idol: didn't David try to awaken his lyre so he could awaken the Dawn? Jews were forbidden to sing these "God arousal" songs.

A POEM or SONG is defined as a work or FABRICATION. It intends to change the TRUTH usually:

H4639 maeh mah-as-ehh From H6213 ; a product, an action (good or bad); generally a transaction; abstractly activity; by implication a product (specifically a poem) or (generally) property:

Both Amos 5-9 and Isaiah associate instruments as LEGALISTIC WORKS which presenting poems or fabrications starved the people for lack of the "water of the Word." And so, they were taken captive and MUSIC is always the mark of a word-starved people having been taken captive.

Isa 5:12 - And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine,
are in their feasts: [These were the regular religious festivals at which the Word was to be read]
but they regard not the work of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hands.

Along with all evidence including the very definition of an instrument as a machine for CONDUCTING WAR or producing the SHOCK AND AWE by which the hypocrites CLAIM that they brought you into God's presence, this verse proves that this was a WAR between

The works of MAN'S hands (of which music is the most works-intensive) and
The the works of God: praise means to tell GOD'S story in GOD'S word.

You need to "flee from Babylon" because the MUSIC in the Bible and by definition is the MARK of people who have blasphemed the Spirit by claiming that the Spirit told them to lie about the Word and they are under a GREAT DELUSION so they CANNOT stop lying and believing their own lies. You need to get out from under the falling Mega-temples.

I

you judgmental asshole!

Wow! You proved my point in just three words. I know you are probably already wishing you could take that back. My heart is with you.

Hello; As the son of a 60(s) CoC Preacher, born in 1956, sent to all the CoC VBS(s), camps, college, and then coming back to the Church in early 80(s); I am exactly the listed target you mentioned above. Thank You!

I woke up a couple of years ago and realized I was force-feeding my own kids... Yes, we are simply following learned behavior, from the "flapper-kids"... smile...

Never has anything been said more straight-forward.

Donnie, Ken, Others, please try to NOT ADD TO or TAKE AWAY from this message too soon...

Brothers / Sisters, ....please let it sink in....

Frank

I often get invited to shut up and I am willing to give IT a try.

I am in the SINKING mode but will you please tell us what IT is?

Is PPB a judgmental asshole? Or is ken a "judgmental SOB?" You linked to PPB's response to Annie Mouse? So do you agree with PPB. It seems clear that MY agreement that our MELODY word PSALLO has nothing to do with SINGING WITH INSTRUMENTS in the church calls for my SILENCE. It is a fact that the unlawful preachers of yesteryear and their songs which were CCM at the time and CONTRADICTORY to the direct command of Paul and the approved example of Jesus was a wretched TRADITIONALISM we should QUIT FINANCING.

If PPB is an asshole is it because he tells you that those having VISIONS and NEW GLASSES to get a NEW set of Scriptures should be HISSED just like Jim Jones and David Koresh were dangerous LAUGHINGSTOCKS? Or do you agree with Max and Ricky who takes YEARS to twist the arm of the spirit PERSON to convince HIS elders that they should agree BY HEGELIAN CONSENSUS that the SPIRIT says add music and ADD women because Paul said they add AUTHORITY which is AUTHENTIA which is both EROTIC and MURDEROUS and THAT sucks in the seekers. Ricky can be right or the Spirit Whose name is Jesus Christ is right and never the twain shall meet.

Max claims to be MORE of a Baptist but no Baptist I know about would pay him. Rick claims to be more of a Christian Church type or a Stoneite. Is IT the fact that it is minimally honest to infiltrate and divert a church OUT of the possession of its owners? If you did that to ENRON they would house you UNDER the jail for many, many years.

When you usurp the elders (don't deny it), fire the DEACONS and hire professional buddies to be MINISTERS. And if you insult the BODY or FAMILY and go off in a corner and HALLUCINATE mind control music. And if you REFUSE to let the body rule itself. And if you write papers to try to convince people that the Bible's ANTI music passages mean that God actually COMMANDS it. And if people who leave are branded as sowing discord. Then pray tell me what else do you need to define a CULT?

Preacher kids very often have recessive genes which cause them to REPUDIATE whatever mom and dad said so they can spit at those who RAISED THEM up and FED them.

So, what am I supposed to be silenced about? What is IT that you want to sink in?

Ken

Ken; slow down my brother...

1. I agree 100% with PPB...

2. You are not judgemental... although, you can get sideways and long-winded sometimes... (smile)...

3. IT? What is IT??? it is the PPB message...

4. In my first response; When I said I am the target. I was meaning that she had hit directly with me, further, she stated "IN A MOST CLEAR MANNER" that which is most important. OK?

When I said let it sink in, good or bad, short or long, PPB's message is straight to the point... Fact is that PPB was awaking some folks, re-awaking others, and for others telling them to get with ...IT!!!!

5. Finally, the reason I mentioned being a preachers kid, was that CoC 60(s) life was tough-enough, guilty by sin association, was the buzz-word my friends heard from my old- man. Remember the phrase: "...that God was punishing me for something..." We ran around all week wondering what this something was...

enough ranting from me... thanks, later, Frank

Sorry about that but I wasn't clear what IT was.

Now, we have haggled it out we have created more interest and the first thing people will read is PPB and it is true that they need to read no further.

The ROBBED need to understand that PPB has stated what the Bible and most of church history validates. When the ROBBERS have a vision to take Christ off the identifier and claim that God actually commanded INSTRUMENTS or "it just don't matter" they can conclude:

One: the people really are the worst kind of thieves.

Two: they are too ignorant to be paid to "hustle" the Holy Spirit into finally agreeing with them.

Everyone needs to get the message out and hold a LAUGHING workshop to LAUGH the buffoons out of the brotherhood. God actually did that at Mount Sinai where the "because of transgression" was exactly what these great pretenders are trying to move into primetime.

I need to affirm the old views to prove that I am not an SOB as our spiritual locusts claims: My parents kissed on Wednesday in 1922 and got married on Sunday. Because Granny was always saying: "Don't you let that old boy kiss you" mom thought--right up to wedding night--that you got pregnant from kissing.

Annie Mouse also proves that when you threaten the theatrical performers you need to watch your back: they WILL hurt you.

Ken

Don't let the mumbling, muttering and murmuring slow you down.

I just love this word:

Gogguzo (g1111) gong-good'-zo; to grumble: - murmur.

This guy CURSES you to prove how friendly he is.

Ken

If we are to follow all of what Paul told us to then I am sure that you are ok with having someone speak in tongues (if and only if)there is an interpreter.

Also, when someone is sick they should probably have the elders pray over them and annoint them with oil rather than going to a doctor.

When Paul said a woman shouuld remain quiet in the church I assume that he meant anywhere where "two or more are gathered", thus if a woman speaks inside a church building where there are more than two believers she is sinning.

Instead of bashing others, I prefer to spread the Love of God through Jesus to everyone that needs it. My first job is to love God. My second is like the first, love my neighbors. I still have difficulty loving hateful people, so that is where my focus is.

Hello???? You make the above points by your assumptions...

Ken, you are right, they cannot give an answer, they have no road to take, so they have to makeup arguments based on supposed assumptions, and then mix and mash everything...

Mike,

Thank you for your comments, even though you were trying to make a point. This is exactly what I am talking about. You are trying too hard to find what YOU want in the Bible and not letting IT lead you. You are too intent on discrediting people and trying to hide behind an "open and loving mind" to see the simple truth written right in front of you.

When a Christian wishes to understand the Bible, then a thorough understanding must include the use of the Greek and/or Hebrew text. Also, an understanding of what issues or behaviors were common back then and how we relate to them today.

For example, you use the 'speaking in tongues' issue as a way to try to confuse a weak or new Christian. However, one must understand that the term "Speaking in tongues" is a 20th Century term that means literally to "babble or speak incoherently, to be in a trance, etc." That is NOT the meaning of the word "tongue" as used in the verse you referenced. The actual word used was "glw'ssa" which literally means: to speak in a foreign tongue or language.

If you would review the historical evidence of the 1st Century Church you would come to understand that the Gentiles were of many diverse cultures and spoke in many languages. If one could not interpret the comments, then Paul felt it was a waste of time. Pretty commonsensical.

Your second sarcastic comment was in regards to the anointing of oil on a sick person. Hmm. got me? Wrong. Again, simple common sense will dispell this myth. There are several forms of the word "anoint" in the Bible. Two are in connection with the sacred annointings that occurred prior to Jesus dying on the cross: Chrio and Chrisma. Both are used when anointing a King, phrophet or other sacred individual.

However, the use of the word "aleipho" in James 5:14 refers to the everyday type of anointing that was used for several reasons, one being medicinal. Take for instance the following from Luke 10: 33-34

33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when
he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine,
and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of
him.

I think the reasoning is pretty plain and simple and does not warrant any further discussion.

As to your last parting shot. How does one even reply to that? "where two or more are gathered"...Let's take that further down the road you began on. Hmmm...two Christians meet in a grocery store. Are they to begin praying, singing and teaching? Or hey, two Christians meet in a bathroom... Get my point? It is where two or more are gathered for the intent to worship. Good grief.

HERE'S MY MAIN POINT:

You either read the Bible and believe it is the inspired Word or you do NOT. You can't pick and choose which verses to agree with. Women are no different today than they were in the 1st Century Church. Why should we ignore Paul's teachings?

Personally, my soul is not worth the worry of trying to find a way to "UPDATE" the Bible. I will not limit God's power by believing that the Word does not mean the same today as it did then. Clothing, homes and transportation may change but people do not. We all think and feel just like the 1st Christians. They liked entertainment just as much as we do - look at all the pagan worship that occurred. Why do we deserve special treatment just because we are in the 21st Century?
_________________________________________________________________________________

I picture Satan and the fallen angels talking:

"Hey, Satan, what's your favorite soul to take?" asks a fallen angel.
"A Christian's, they are by far the sweetest victory. It's simple really. I just use God's own Word against them. Sprinkle a little self-interest and a cup of entertainment and their mine. I've gotten whole congregations by whispering sweet words in the preacher's ear."
"What did you whisper?" asks another fallen angel.
"Actually not a lot. I just explained that he was much wiser than prior generations of Christians and that God is all about love and understanding. It's a new world out there and God inspired the Bible 2000 years ago. Of course he doesn't have to abide by every little instruction. Just pick out the ones that fit your needs."
"That's it?" asks the first fallen angel.
"Yep, he was even easier than Eve. He found that instruments were pleasing to the ears, relaxing the rules on baptism were easy on the soul, and large attendance was desired by the Elders, so he believed in his own power and took only those sections of the Bible he felt were pertinent and then giving that information to the congregation, they did believe."

I do sincerely apologize for my sarcastic attitude in yesterdays post. It is not my intent to sow discord.

As far as your points, I agree with may of them, but I know that I do not take every scripture literally and I am ok with that.
There are several examples -
My wife does wear Gold & Pearls and fine jewelry. Although her hair is not long enough to braid, if she wanted it braided I would be fine with that. She does not wear a head covering when she prays.

My main point is this - if you are a memeber of RHCC then you should be submitting to the leadership of the elders. If you are not a mmeber of RHCC then you really don't need to worrry about what is going on there. The Churches of Christ are non-denominational. There is no head overseer of the Churches of Chirst other than Christ himself. So the differneces that this site brings up about Richland Hills seem odd to me. I don't see any posts about Travis Avenue Baptist in Fort Worth, or Bellvue Baptist in Memphis or any other churches that aren't acting in the way that this group wants them to act.

At the jerusalem Council the Christians did not agree on all of the iussues.
Paul went his own way several times when there where differnces betwen him and other missionaries.
Paul also stated when he was in prison that it was ok if people were preaching out of selfish ambition as long as Christ is preached.

Jesus said Love God first, then your neighbor.
James, the brother of Jesus said Pure and undefiled religion is this, to take care of the widows and orphans.

If people who have accepted Jesus as their Savior and been immersed with him in Baptism would focus on people that don't know him rather than beating eachother up over other issues I think we could actually accomplish much more than we ask or imagine.

Once again, I do apologize for my sarcastic tones it is not my intent to upset, only to help others on this site to realize that there is only one perfect person and it is Him who we should follow. We will differ on some points, but jesus is the head of this body.

Mike,

Thanks for the apology

Your right, Paul did state that and I can see his reasoning. Who cares the actual intent behind the messenger if he is telling the truth? Let the messenger deal with his own personal issues.

I guess the problem I have is the decision to take portions of the Bible literally vs. others "in spirit". Seems there should be some consistency here. Even more confusing is how people pick and choose which verses they will apply literally. I'm an oddity in that I try to see the NT as a whole. What did Jesus preach, how did Paul chasten the Chruches, etc?What was the overall behavior at that time? How did Christian's worship, act, behave? How did Jesus worship, act, behave? I try to get as close to that as I can (for which I feel I fail miserably sometimes - thank goodness for prayer and forgiveness).

There are many things I would like to change about Paul's teachings. He is one of my favorite apostles and yet, at times I think he is arrogant and bossy. He is just a man with flaws. But I realize that God intended him for a special duty or he wouldn't have become Paul instead of Saul. This was a man that wasn't afraid of anyone except God. To walk into meetings with the very people you helped persecute must have been terrifying. One tough dude. So, why so much special attention by God? Because Paul's unusual personal strength was needed to set the Churches straight, get everyone in line, pull in the ranks of the divided. He was sent to disagree with Peter and James who could be weak when others questioned them or confused them.

Would I like women to be leader's in the Church? You bet ya!!!! I would love to be a preacher or a teacher over men. Just give me the chance...Sigh....I personally would like to have more than one husband - one to do the housework/yardwork and one to make the money (just joking!), I would love to be able to to stop worrying about how I may cause other's to stumble. But that's what I want, not what God intended.

God ask's us to submit to his will. The problem is that people believe this just means believing in him. No, it means submitting to him and the Spirit of Christianity, walking and talking in the Lord all the days of your life. It means submitting to the guidelines presented by a man that God "picked" to preach the word to the 7 Churches in Asia. Who am I to argue with Paul, much less the God that chose him?

But,you ARE a preacher: you have literally gone into ALL THE WORLD which is where preaching takes place. I am very happy to receive your teaching! It is possible to build your own "ministry" meaning you don't SELL it. You can set up a free web pabe but I am moving my 250 dollar a month base of operation to one which costs 7.50 a month. With that you can do an END RUN around the lazy, male bums living by demanding tithes and offerings from widows so they can--like Saul--build a memorial to their own GRAND role as the replacement for Christ the Spirit or song and sermon Writer. If they WILL NOT get a productive job then people are PARTNERS IN CRIME by feeding them to sow discord and make fools of themselves each time they try to CONSTRUCT new scripture called SERMONS.

The fact is that the Glory Road Preaching is not available for males either! I often say and say and say that Jesus STOOD UP to read and then had the uncommon decency to SIT DOWN and dialog or commune about what HE HAD READ. Males can pray by lifting HOLY hands and LIKEWISE women can pray if dressed modestly with a modest conduct! But, I don't think that the Bible says anything about EITHER being the CLERGY PRAYER--especially as defined by Jesus as PHARISEES by collecting a fee for their performance. It is a fact that if I pray audibly then I must speak in the local dialect (tongue) so that YOU can understand but no one can PRAY or LEAD you in prayers when so often they were PUT ON THE PROGRAM just to get them to attend that day.

Paul didn't stand up at the pulpit at 11 in the morning and LECTURE til midnight. His word is to dialog or discuss what undoubtely only he had as answers while they had questons.

"DIALEGOMAI primarily denotes to ponder, resolve in one's mind; then, to converse, dispute, discuss, discourse with; most frequently, to reason or dispute with." In Acts 20:7 and 9 "the A.V. (KJV) translates it 'preached,' this the R.V. corrects to 'discoursed,' lit., 'dialogued,' i.e. not by way of a sermon, but by a discourse of a more conversational character." (Vine, p. 319).

"to say thoroughly, i.e. discuss (in argument or exhortation):--dispute, preach, reason, speak" (Strong)

"In many cases heralds are very garrulous and inclined to exaggerate. They are thus in danger of giving false news. It is demanded then that they deliver their message as it is given to them.

The essential point about the report which they give is that it does not originate with them ...The herald does not express his own views. He is the spokesman for his master... Being only the mouth of his master, he must not falsify the message entrusted to him by additions of his own." (Robinson, Homiletics, p. 804).

"With the victory of Christianity and the development of the service came a soaring of the sermon. Preaching became more frequent, being employed even during the week and during fast seasons in some places daily. As the Church during that period assimilated more and more Greco-Roman culture, the sermon developed para passu. The most noted Christian preachers had not seldom been educated in the rhetorical schools of the heathen, and employed in their sermons the rule of rhetoric and the artistic effects taught there, and polish became almost an end, often giving more brilliancy than warmth. The hearers came to look for esthetic satisfaction rather than for edification, leaving after the sermon and before the Eucharist." (The New Schaff-Herzog Religious Encyclopedia, Preaching, p. 150, Period 300-450 A. D.).

These MANY rhetoricians who claimed that Paul didn't DEMAND a salary because he was not WORTH being paid, were the SAME ones judged by Paul who said: "If they will not work neither shall they eat." Paul laid down a direct command and approved examples. The "legal" rights of a temple worker or warrior COULD NOT be demanded without making the idea of a FREE GOSPEL of non effect.

This public, rhetorical preaching and the Song Precentor as CLERGY roles are identified as two of the earliest heresies.

My youngest sister said that she would love to be a preacher and she would make a fine one. I told her that the week has 168 hours a week and asked her what she was doing the OTHER 167 hours.

Because you are not exercising AUTHENTIA or sexual authority which is automatic when women perform publically, you can TAKE THE LEADERSHIP and do a grand job. The "theaters for holy entertainment" and their STAFF of performers is a fading fad and we must make sure that the troublers in Zion who build on ACU's "prophets, chanellers and facilitators" have a MEMORIAL built in history so that the world will have an honest memory of the small, hostile agents engaged in hostile takeovers. When our children ask: "What was that Great Affliction" we can say: "They were the periodic agents from old who tried their HAMMERS on God's Word and were worn out right up to their bloody elbow." And you will be a Mother in Zion.

Ken

"rules on baptism"?????? Where in the Bible are "rules" on baptism or anything?

You have ears but will not hear

Eyes but cannot see.

I feel sorry for you

Donnie,

Thank you. I didn't expect anyone to even notice my comments, much less re-post them. I was raised to seek and speak the truth - which does come back to haunt me quite frequently! I just wish members of the Church would take a step-back and see the "big picture" instead of each "issue".

Again, thank you for making me feel that my words had meaning to someone!

PPB

PPB: They have never SPREAD my teaching like that!!!

You are to be commended. The Bible and historical testimony proves that Israel lost its way because of "strange" or ungodly women. And when it rose spiritually it was because of godly women.

I am quite sure that the modern apostasy is driven by worldly women and I am equally sure that until Godly women get into the battle the battle will be lost. You need to recruit and make yourselves felt. After all in may churches it is the worldy women who are primary pickers of preachers because most elders melt under heat.

Ken

Ken,

Thanks for those comments! I needed to hear them.

Today I had a long talk with a co-worker, who is of another denomination, about women's roles in Church. Funny thing is that we are both known for our unusual straight-forward, strong personalities at work. Yet we both agree that God has a plan and that it is our duty to abide by it - including allowing men to have the authority over us in worship/home/etc...

Other women cannot fathom how we can agree to abide by Paul's teachings. We both explain that it has nothing to do with agreeing, but has everything to do with accepting. To keep the Church in order and consistent, He gave us all roles. It's not my job to question Him if I have faith in Him.

Though as a woman, wife, mother and manager, I do understand the importance of setting up a management system.

No, wacko, no one believes that the BIBLE is the Holy Spirit! The WORDS of Christ ARE Spirit and they ARE Life: we have the words of Jesus for that. Everyone who has read any history know that NO ONE (until now) ever thought of the Holy Spirit as a PERSON: one of the three FAMILY MEMBERS of Shellyism. EVERYONE knew that God is Thought, Word and Breath. Because we are made in the IMAGE of God we are body, soul and spirit but NO one thinks of ME as triplets. See how simple that is. It is the latter day wackos who want to BE an apostle, prophet or "Christ for this here group" who have invented this scam for the first time in history.

What LITERATE members of the church of Christ believes is what Jesus taught, Paul preached, Tertullian who invented "trias" believed, what Martin Luther believed and what John Calvin believed. Oral Roberts would deny the neo-POLYTHEISM of Lucado and Shelly.

As usual, a false teaching is supported by a false proof text. Those who were SAVED could possibly be lost. There were some who were ANTICHRISTS

MY little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1 John 2:1

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2


And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 1 John 2:3

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38


He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 1 John 2:5

He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. 1 John 2:6

Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. 1 John 2:7

You are flat wrong: churches of Christ have always believed in the indwelling of the Spirit. However, Bible 101aaa lets anyone know that:

First, the Holy Spirit has a NAME. He told Paul that He was "Jesus of Nazarth."

In the Great Commission the NAME singular was the name of Father, Son and Spirit. These are not PEOPLE but internal natures of God in Christ IN WHOM full Deity dwelled. If you say that only the WORD indwelled then you deny that CHRIST came fully in the flesh and John says that makes you ANTI-CHRIST.

Second, Father, Son and Spirit are NEVER separated. The Father as THOUGHT speaks his WORD as Son through His Breath or Spirit in ALL of the Trinitarian understandings. Only latter day Boles, Lucado's and Shelly's hallucinate that God is a Family of Gods. God as three separated BEINGS was revealed in Nashville, Tennessee in the year of publication 1942.

Third, Jesus said that I AM the "another" or fuller Comforter: Spirit will come in the NAME of Jesus and Spirit will speak only what he Hears from Jesus. That means that if the SPIRIT is a person then HE DOESN'T HAVE A MIND OF HIS OWN.

Fourth, where the SON dwells the FUL DEITY dwells.

Fifth, Jesus said MY WORDS are SPIRIT and LIFE (John 6:63). Paul equated SPIRIT in Ephesians 5 to the Word of Christ in Colossians 3. God put HIS SPIRIT into HIS WORDS.

Sixth, NO MAN hears or knows the father but the SON. If you don't listen to the SON then the "spirit person" WILL NOT guide you.

Seventh, both Father and Son live in the HEART or MIND by faith.

Eighth, this LIFE of Father and Son exists only to the extent you keep THE WORDS OF CHRIST which ARE Spirit and Life.

Ninth, when the Son received the SPIRIT without measure that means that He SPEAKS the very words of God: you are not the ONE Comforter or ONE Mediator so God DOES not speak to you because NO MAN hears the Father but the Son.

If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:15

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:16

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 14:17

I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. John 14:18

Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. John 14:19

At that day ye shall know that I am IN my Father, and ye IN me, and I IN you. John 14:20

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14:21

Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? John 14:22

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my FATHER will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make our abode with him. John 14:23

He that loveth me NOT keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Fathers which sent me. John 14:24

These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. John 14:25

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26

Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. John 14:27

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you, If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. John 14:28

Now that the SPIRIT PERSON dwells in YOUR carnal body and YOU dwell INSIDE OF GOD LITERALLY why don't you DO something to prove YOURSELF.

You remember that Jesus spoke in parables to fool the Jewish clergy. He said that this began at THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD and Isaiah 48 shows that this is to prevent your newly INCARNATED god people from PEDDLING what God gave free. Now, notice that this is NOT a separated PERSON but the spirit OF truth which is Jesus Christ revealing Himself:

Howbeit when he, the Spirit OF truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. John 16:13

You see, you people hallucinating because as we have shown MANY times that "no man hears the Voice of God" THIS Spirit does not even have a MIND. That is because the Holy Spirit is the Mind of Christ. The spirit OF fear is not another person.

He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. John 16:14


If ye shall ask any thing in MY NAME, I will do it. John 14:14


All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. John 16:15

These things have I spoken unto you in PROVERBS: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. John 16:25

Now, look at your own POSTING: their anointing was what THEY HEARD from the beginning.

Ever wonder why people nearly always become followers of the denomination where they first learned about Christ. It's simple really. The vast majority of cofc christians had their first experiences in the cofc. If you were raised a catholic, you are probably still a catholic, this goes for any denomination.

Why is this so? Mostly because we were all taught to believe the bible, The doctrine of any denomination is provable, at least to some extent, by the way they choose to interpt the bible. Are there errors in denominational teaching, yep, in everyone of them. There are errors in the cofc doctrine as well, though we never want to admit it. The word of God is pure as delivered to the inspired writers, however we are considered to be un-inspired, while at the same time we believe we are the only ones who can read the bible and get it correct. Then there are the accusations that all the others are wanting to have an easy doctrine to fit their lifestyles. I beg to disagree, we tend to believe what we were first taught and we by nature are fearful of change.

A major error in cofc theology has been a denial of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Many cofc's are correcting this, which is one reason why I believe change has come.


First John 2:20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.[d] 21I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. 23No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

24See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.

26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

Somehow we have been led to believe that the Bible is the Holy Spirit and we can have the book but not the "Holy Spirit". After all we were taught to believe that the Spirit was given to only the apostles and the 120 or so that were part of the selected few. As a result we have come to worship the book more that the one who gave it to us.

Changes are coming, because this generation wants a living relationship with the living God and are no longer satisified with his shadow. Praise God!

What C of C have you attended? I know very few who do not believe in the "indwelling" of the HS. We just didn't fall victim to the man-made belief that the HS will keep you from falling away. The HS "welds" the Word. He does not make sure you are or stay a Christian. He is a guide, not a fail-safe. That's were many denominations fail to read the entire NT. They just sort of skip over the verses about falling away and becoming lost sheep. They love to place all their responsibility onto God. That way they don't have to give up the "world" and "sin".

Wouldn't it be love-l-y if the Truth was so easy? Many of you seem to forget that the "path is narrow and few there are that will find it". Oh, wait, I remember, you mentally removed that verse...hmm...

Please note that my notes to wacko should be BELOW his.

Hey Ken,
I'm glad you feel this way, it means you can no longer just throw your weight around. You don't remember me, because I use a different name here, but we have had many conversations through the years. You are known all over the internet as a divider not a uniter. Please re-evaluate your words, the enemies of Christ love you. God is quite capable of defending his people and his message.

PPb says:
What C of C have you attended? I know very few who do not believe in the "indwelling" of the HS.

Real-life reply:
That's part of the problem, there is no unity of agreement on this. The more legalistic the congregation the less they believe in the Holy Spirit. The most legalistic form says the bible is the holy spirit (written word). Then you have different degrees of acceptance from that very low point. I admit my very first experiences were with the most legalistic form of cof. During my many years in the coc we moved around a lot looking for some cofc with more actual teaching of the bible rather than an old dead doctrines of men. The cofc is undergoing drastic changes as they move from that old concept. The rest of christianity has known it for what it really is all along, the reformers are finally realizing it for what it is, a works for salvation doctrine. The changes are long over due.

PPb says:
Wouldn't it be love-l-y if the Truth was so easy? Many of you seem to forget that the "path is narrow and few there are that will find it". Oh, wait, I remember, you mentally removed that verse...hmm...

Yes it would be lovely if the truth was easy. Actually it does not take a theology graduate or some engineer to explain the holy scriptures and interpt them for us. God is quite capable of teaching us all we need to know, if we would just approach him with the faith of a small child and leave all our preconcieved ideas behind.

1 John4: 1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
4You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.


13We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. 16And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. 17In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. 18There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

I John 1:20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.[d] 21I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ.

26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

Do you believe you have this anointing, if you do then you believe God is capable of sheding his light on the Holy Scriptures (just for you) and the world cannot take that away, nor the legalists.


+++++++++++++++++++++

The Holy Scripture is God's Spirit-inspired. Your statement that members of the church (you left and despise) believe "that the Bible is the holy Spirit" is a BIG bold lie ... on your part. But you're not bold enough to tell us that you left the church and are now a member of _________________? Why ... are you ashamed of your new church?

Yes, you smell like Dallas.

But, wacko, YOU believe that Jesus or the CHRIST separated PERSON came in the flesh. You are ANTI-Christ because you think that Father, Son and Spirit DIDN'T dwell fully in Jesus of Nazareth.

BELOVED, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 1 John 4:1

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 1 John 4:2

The word CHRIST means that FULL DEITY which is just ONE GOD came in the FLESH and dwelled FULLY in Jesus Christ as the FATHER SON and SPIRIT. IF you even think about the One Spirit God being split up like a Pecan Pie you are ANTI-CHRIST.

Your attitude should be the kind that was shown us by Jesus Christ, Phil 2:5LIV

who, though he WAS GOD, did not demand and cling to his rights AS God, Phil 2: 6

but laid aside his mighty power and glory, taking the disguise of a slave and becoming like men.Phil 2: 7

And he humbled himself even further, going so far as actually to die a criminal's death on a cross. Phil 2: 8

Yet it was because of this that God raised him up to the heights of heaven and gave him a name which is above every other name, Phil 2: 9

that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth, Phil 2: 10

and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is lord, to the glory of God the Father. Phil 2: 11

In the Old testament there were MANY ELOHIM or Gods: God is a generic word and you may be worshiping GAD the hostile tribe and GOD OF FURTUNE. However, the only TRUE LORD was Jehovah. Jesus or Joshua is Jehovah- Saves. Therefore, all that we know about gods is bound up in the one LORD Who to we mortals is JESUS CHRIST.

Thomas acknowledged Jesus as MY LORD and MY GOD.

Peter gave us his written MEMORY of what He had seen and heard as an EYE-WITNESS of the teaching and risen Jesus Christ. He warned that we SHOULD not listen to anything else because it would come from a FALSE PROPHET. Paul insisted, consistent with the Direct command of Jesus in John 4 that we NOT worship in HOUSES made with human hands or by the WORKS of human hands: effeminate raising, clapping or ANYTHING which would LEAD your gender:

For we are the circumcision, which worship God IN THE SPIRIT and rejoice IN Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Ph.3:3

You guys are OF THE FLESH and your worship is BODY WORSHIP: just look that up on Google and in the Greek language as THRESKIA and you will see that ALL outward rituals driven by money and music is CHARISMATIC which means PERVERTED.

Therefore, THE REASON Paul insisted that "worship" not BREAK OUT into the open was that theatrical and musical performers were ALWAYS catamites or male prostitutes:

Beware of DOGS, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. Ph. 3:2

Jesus speak to PROFITS in strange language which cannot be SPOKEN. So, let us back up a bit to show that if YOU hallucinate about a SPIRIT PERSON separated from the FATHER and SON then you DEFINE YOURSELF as ANTI-CHRIST.

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath SEEN the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? John 14:9

Believest thou not that I am IN the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that DWELLETH IN me, he doeth the works. John 14:10

Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works sake. John 14:11

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John 14:12

And whatsoever ye shall ask in MY NAME, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified IN the Son. John 14:13

If ye shall ask any thing in MY NAME, I will do it. John 14:14

If ye love me, keep MY commandments. John 14:15

And IF you do then Jesus will confess you:

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another [fuller] Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:16

Even the Spirit OF truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth WITH you, and shall be IN you. John 14:17

I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. John 14:18


MY little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an ADVOCATE with the Father, JESUS CHRITS the righteous: 1Jn.2:1


Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. John 14:19

At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. John 14:20

He that hath MY commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14:21

Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? John 14:22

Jesus answered and said unto him, IF a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him. John 14:23

He that loveth me not keepeth NOT my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Fathers which sent me. John 14:24

YOU remember that Jesus spoke in PARABLES to fool the CLERGY people who were beyond redemption??

These things have I spoken unto you in PROVERBS: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly OF the Father. John 16:25

No, Wacko, Piney is calling the AFFLICTED to come out of BABYLON which has LANDED in your group and h