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A New Topic

June 23 2005 at 1:34 PM
Christ-follower 
from IP address 66.199.28.134

I browsed some of your forums and I was just amazed and a little upset by the topics being discussed. Then I saw the 'new topic' button and was a little more hopeful. Is it possible that insted of members spending hours writing about the latest change this week or whether or not clapping is wrong for the hundredth time, that I might suggest a 'new topic'? I wonder what Christ would post if he had a forum on the web. Would it be the constant updates and arguments about church changes (whether right or wrong)? Or could it be that Christ would be more focused externally? When Christ found himself surrounded by people arguing about the 'letter of the law', do we find him engaging in that conversation? No. We find him delivering mercy to an adulterous woman, reaching out to the lost with the amazing love of God. I think there are too many people hurting and living in depravity without an understanding of who God is for me to sit around arguing with other Christians about things that bear no influence on my salvation. Let's follow Christ's example and set our mind on things above, making every effort to bring as many with us as possible. Thank you for your time.

 
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AuthorReply
Ken Sublett

63.84.81.28

OLD topic? Still hurting?

June 24 2005, 7:52 AM 

    Or could it be that Christ would be more focused externally? When Christ found himself surrounded by people arguing about the 'letter of the law', do we find him engaging in that conversation? No. We find him delivering mercy to an adulterous woman, reaching out to the lost with the amazing love of God. I think there are too many people hurting and living in depravity without an understanding of who God is for me to sit around arguing with other Christians about things that bear no influence on my salvation. Let's follow Christ's example and set our mind on things above, making every effort to bring as many with us as possible. Thank you for your time.
Good idea: we are following Jesus. You might tell us who you are and how your church follows Jesus. How, for instance, do you deal with Jesus NOT arguing about the letter of the law. What He argued about was professionals who VIOLATED the Laws of God SO THAT they could use their OWN TRADITIONALISM or PATTERNISM because THAT is the only way they could peddle long sermons and prayers to STEAL the living of widows. YOU and none of the preacher boys will EVER find Jesus condemning ANYONE for obeying the LAWS OF GOD. Such a claim IS "spiritual adultery" just selling your IDOLATRY OF TALENT by FIRST stopping up all of the SPRINGS of living and FREE waters. No one on this forum is GETTING PAID so by definition could not be THE Pharisees.

In fact, WE disciples find Jesus teaching and FULFILLING all of the Old Testament prophecies that Messiah would come as the BRANCH to deliver the SEVEN SPIRITS or LAMPS of Divine knowledge. NO preacher grasped what the ADULTEROUS WOMAN at the well grasped: That "When Messias comes HE will tell us all things." THAT is what God in Christ spent His years doing: preaching in PARABLES so the preacher boys COULD NOT GRASP the message. Then, He left His physical body and came as THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST to lead the Apostles into ALL TRUTH which is ALL that you have for both songs and sermons. It is a fact that the MIRACLES of Jesus were relatively FEW and they tried to murder Him when He showed how limited the miracles were under the Law.

What YOU read on this forum is FREE just as Jesus packaged it as the Spirit of Christ in the Free Water of the Word which must FLOW OUTWARD from Jerusalem (Nashville) or it by definition is not free.

Some of us believe that stealing the church houses of widows is a SALVATION ISSUE. If you contribute to a "robber of temples" then you ARE a robber. If you are CLAPPING when Jesus promised to come "grieve out a hymn" with us in memory of His DEATH then you are WAY PAST a salvation issue and have slapped the God of the universe in the face. The "mental excitement" is in fact the MEANING of God pouring out His WRATH on you and the singy-clappys are a SIGN for the disciples to flee Babylon.

So, we want to warn people that 'SAVING MORE SOULS' is not a good reason to claim that USING MUSIC AND MUSICIANS is NOT a salvation issue when there is NO evidence but that Lucifer or Satan or Zoe brought it with him/her when God CAST HER AS PROFANE out of heaven. That word having the meaning of HALAL "to make self vile" or PRAISE from which the word LUCIFER is derived and Chalal translated as "play the flute, STEAL your inheritance, pollute or prostitue" is what JESUS did when He CAST OUT the musical worship team "more or less violently as one CAST OUT Satan or CAST OUT dung."

How would YOU suggest that people set their MIND ON THINGS ABOVE when the musical vandals are singing, clapping and imitating the UNIVERSAL meaning of perverted religionism?

Tell us how much money you spend on showing mercy to adulterous women when they MOST CERTAINLY will not be found in the VENUE FOR ROCK AND ROLL on Sunday morning. How much time do you spend and how do you spend it on teaching those living in DEPRAVITY. I mean, that is, OTHER THAN the false religionists who TRAFFICK in music which is 100% associated from the garden of Eden (and before) to Revelation 18 with a hostile takeover by perverts. How much money do you spend on people who REJECT THE CROSS by telling you that there is A LAW OF TITHING?

Now, Jesus did't spend ONE WIDOW'S MITE on adulterous widows and directly commanded our ALMS to the poor. That EXCLUDES the colleciton plate for a pagan "worship ritual." The POOR, as in Paul's NOT a command are defined as DESTITUTE or street people. What percentage of your "contribution" goes to the DESTITUTE meaning "they will starve without your help?"

Are you a Musical Performer "standing in the holy place" claiming to be God by claiming to "lead them into His presence" as MEDIATOR? Do you LISTEN to such? Do you ENABLE such? Then, this IS a salvation which begins in HEAVEN in the Bible and ends in HELL according to many clear Biblical teachings.

Furthermore, readers should be aware that Jesus never disputed the letter of the law. Jesus condemned three SECTARIAN GROUPS: The Scribes (song, sermon and book writers and preachers), Pharisees who CHANGED the law IN ORDER to teach their own and GET PAID FOR IT and the SECTARIAN Hypocrites. These were theatrical performers or actors as performance preachers, singers and instrumentalists.

All rhetoricians, sOPHISts (serpents), singers, musicians and craftsmen CLAIMED to be sorcerers but the Greek language calls them all PARASITES. The "craftsmen" or KORESH (as in David) in Hebrew or TECHNE in Greek were "theater builders and stage managers." The "grinders" whose wheels made a "musical" noise were always PROSTITUTES. Sure, ALL singers in ancient paganism were DELIGHTED to be known as THE HAREM OF THE GODS. ALL proof-texts for using ANY kind of music point directly to perverted MALES grooming young boys ("ministers of the gods") for THEIR OWN USES AND ENJOYMENT. They CLAIMED that the "ritual" was a RELIGIOUS RITUAL WITH THE GODS.

Now, here is where you PROBABLY do not follow Jesus and Paul (the suffering servants) and are BROUGHT INTO CONDEMNATION and want people to lay off.

Jesus WENT OUT AND PREACHED in the cities: He read the word and explained it as Paul gave a DIRECT COMMAND to Timothy all all CHURCHES:
    AND it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities. Mt.11:1

    And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent. Luke 4:43

Using MUSIC to PREVENT the teaching of the Word of God or the SPIRIT OF CHRIST Who wrote all of the directly commaned INSPIRED SONGS AND SERMONS, is A MORTAL SIN. There is a DIRECT COMMAND in Romans 15 to speak THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN, using ONE MIND and ONE MOUTH as the ONLY way to Glorify God.

In ALL of the Biblical examples musical idolatry WAS A MORTAL SIN. It caused the fall from heaven and the "fallen angels" are spirits still filling too many pulpits and "musical ministries." It caused the FALL in Eden, the FALL at Mount Sinai, the FINAL FALL of the Monarchy in Israel and Jerusalem, the MORTAL fall defined in Ezekiel and ommitted in his IDEALIZED TEMPLE, is defined as the MORTAL SIN by Josephus and would AGAIN be the mortal sin by the Levitical Warrior musicians in the FINAL FALL of Jeruselem called SODOM, is prophesied in Revelation 18:22, is defined as a MORTAL SIN by all church theologians and founders of ALL denominations and is considered a MORTAL SIN by many of the major religious groups still living.

Furthermore, ALL of the musical terms and names of Instruments (many Greek) in the Bible are connected to Satan, warrior noise makers, prostitutes and Sodomites in a religious sense. ALL of the literature from which "musicators" get their authority identify the external melody as PLUCKING as by people PLAYING religion to SEDUCE young boys.

It is THE MORTAL SIN throughout all of the Bible and identified with prostitute and Sodomite religion in ALL of the contemporaneous literature (Book of Enoch etc) and ALL of the Classical writings. YOU are left with ZERO favorable treatment of music AS religion and I can understand your PAIN. But, in ALL of the examples, music was not so much the CAUSE of a mortal fall but the MARK of a fall beyond redemption. Eat, drink and Make Mary. But, don't blame others for what you are defending. I pray daily that when Jesus returns you wil still have lambs FLEECE and widow's flesh still in your teeth. I am certain that you will hold all of the DEEDS to property and therefore ALL of your works will be burned up: lock, stock and flock

Ken

 
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real-life

68.94.206.167

Re: OLD topic? Still hurting?

June 25 2005, 5:48 PM 

Hey Ken, "Christ follower" is right and you are wrong, but hardly anyone here will confront your arrogance.

Tell us how good and perfect you are, tell us how you never sin. My guess is you believe that you keep all the commands (rules) perfectly.

I usually don't do this, but I gotta tell you something, From the average christian's view point, we see your arrogance as sin. Ken Sublett is a sinner! You have no mercy for anyone, and you love to create havoc amoung your denomination, but guess what, hardly anyone listens any more. We've got you figgured out, you serve the devil, not the God of mercy. Your sin is so evident and it abounds.

Mark 3:20-28 "Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, 'He is out of his mind.' And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, 'He is possessed by Beelzebub! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons.' So Jesus called them and spoke to them in parables: 'How can Satan drive out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan opposes himself and he is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. In fact, no one can enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can rob his house. I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them.'"

Ken, be careful, your sin abounds.

"For if by one man’s offence death reigned through one; much more they who receive abundance of grace, and of the gift, and of justice, shall reign in life through one, Jesus Christ. Therefore, as by the offence of one, unto all men to condemnation; so also by the justice of one, unto all men to justification of life" (Romans 5:17-18). Paul’s letter to the Romans tells us that by Adam’s sin all men were convicted and now Christ’s obedience and passion redeem all men. The redemption of Jesus Christ is a gift to the world.

Ken, I know you believe your "perfect" understanding of God's word will save you, but you are wrong, the law will only convict you of your sin and your need for mercy.

The Law reveals our sinfulness.
"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin," (Rom. 3:20).
"What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, ‘Do not covet,’" (Rom. 7:7).
The Law is for those who are not under grace.
"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God," (Rom. 3:19).
"For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace," (Rom. 6:14).
The Law justifies no one.
"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law," (Rom. 3:20).
The Law makes no concessions; it makes demands.
"Cursed is every man who does not abide by everything written in the book of the law to perform them," (Gal. 3:10).
The Law is spiritual: It works on the Spirit, not on the body.
"For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh," (Rom. 7:14).
"Thou shalt not..." applies to the heart, not the body.
We are made righteous in God’s eyes by grace apart from the Law of God.
"For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law," (Rom. 3:28).
"Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," (Rom. 5:1).
"know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified," (Gal. 2:16).
The Law brings judgment.
"...because law brings wrath," (Rom. 4:15).
The Law prepares us for the gospel
The Law shows us that the free gift of the gospel is the only way to attain righteousness.
"The law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith," (Gal. 3:24).
Being saved by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8) is only found in the Christian religion. Only Christianity has the message of free, unearned, grace.
The Law is for the ungodly.
"But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God," (1 Tim. 1:8-11).
The Law differs from the gospel in:
The manner of revelation.
The Law is revealed in the hearts of man.
"For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts..." (Rom. 2:14-15).
It would be impossible to convert anyone if the Law had not been written on their hearts because the Law reveals sin (Rom. 3:20).
The gospel is by direct revelation; it is not written on the heart.
"Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand," (1 Cor. 15:1).
Contents.
The Law tells what people are to do (our works). It makes demands (Deut. 27:26).
The Gospel reveals what God is doing (God’s work). Therefore, it makes no demands on us except faith (Rom. 6:23).
The Law is the list of do’s and don’t’s (Exodus 20)
The Gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus for sins (1 Cor. 15:1-4).
It contains grace and truth (John 1:17) because the gospel is about Jesus.

Promises

The Law and the gospel both promise eternal life:
The Law by complete obedience to all its commands (Lev. 18:5; Luke 10:26). (Only Jesus kept the law perfectly)
The gospel by grace unconditionally (Rom. 3:22-24, Eph. 2:8-9). It demands nothing, makes no threats. It removes from sinners the desire to sin.
Effects of preaching the Law.
It tells us what to do, but does not enable us to do it. This can frustrate us because we cannot keep it!
Reveals to man his sins. It offers no help to get him out; hurls man into despair.
"...I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, ‘You shall not covet,’" (Rom. 7:7).
It brings to our awareness damnation, hell, and hopelessness.
"But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear," (Isaiah 59:2).
"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: ‘Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree,’" (Gal. 3:13).
Effects of preaching the gospel.
It demands faith and gives it to us.
"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ," (Rom. 10:17).
It does not reprove the sinner.
"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus," (Rom. 8:1).
It does not require anything good for man to do either in heart, mind or body because it is a free gift.
"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord," (Rom. 6:23).
Who the Law and the Gospel are preached to.
The Law is preached to sinners, those secure in their sin.
"But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching," (1 Tim. 1:8-10).
The Gospel is preached to those who are alarmed, frightened, smitten by the law; to those who are made thirsty for the Gospel message.
"...through the law we become conscious of sin," (Acts 4:20).
"So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith," (Gal. 3:24).

Ok Ken, I know what you are thinking (real-life) is wacko, everyone knows the old law has been done away with. Correct, but many like you have converted the gospel of grace into a new set of laws. Guess what, you cannot keep those perfectly either, for you are a man filled with sin!

I know this sounds harsh, but you need the saving grace provided for by the blood of Christ. Come to Jesus and be forgiven, accept God's mercy and be saved. Your own righteousness is filthy rags and you know it. Turn to Jesus, he has the power to forgive sin and has provided the powerful cleansing blood which takes away sin. Learn to rely on Him for your salvation, because Ken has no power of his own. Stop serving the devil, and begin serving the God of mercy. Yes, God loves even Ken, with all of his sin. Peace and blessings to you.

 
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Ken Sublett

63.84.81.39

Real Life?

June 25 2005, 10:41 PM 

Yes, yes, b you are absolutely correct on ALL points.

I finally realized that after all of that tithing and offering and attending and sanging and clanging and feeding the parasites I was NOT GETTING any more PERFECT. So, I just QUIT. Gave up!

Finally took the advice of my friend Jesus who said COME REST with ME and I will CURE you of "spiritual anxiety created by religious rituals" and creative ritualists. Boy, I am not getting any more perfecter but I don't sweat it any more. Kno wat i mean?

You know, I was given a chance to SEND you to the viper's den. But, I saw a Suffering Servant who needed to VENT and hyper vent. So, I said, "Hay (I am always saying "Hay"), I have learned how to take a licking and keep on ticking." So, I said, let's hang him in the wind and let him turn gently so others can see all sides and respond.

But, I am not sure: you know the Jews were turned over to worship the starry host (STARS! Get it?). So they PRETENDED to slaughter their god by slaughtering tens of thousands of innocent animals and used that MUSIC (God called it NOISE, but what doees He know?) to hide all of the horrors and THEY didn't feel any better.

So, b, if you don't BEGIN to feel better, take 100 aspirins and call me in the morning: it is 12:35 here.

Ken

 
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Michael Campbell

70.244.170.230

Location

August 28 2005, 1:57 PM 

Mr. Ken,

Do you happen to reside in the Dallas/Ft. Worth Metroplex?

Michael

 
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Ken Sublett

63.84.81.53

Location

August 29 2005, 2:03 PM 

No, I am located outside of Hohenwald, Tennessee. In the olden times I used to always fly through the area just to get Texas pecan pie.

 
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Donnie Cruz

70.146.151.108

Dear Judge Murray:

June 25 2005, 11:10 PM 

real-life,

You are very angry! I can tell. When I extracted your remarks from all the passages [the truth, thank you] that you quoted, here’s what you said:

    Hey Ken, "Christ follower" is right and you are wrong, but hardly anyone here will confront your arrogance. … Tell us how good and perfect you are, tell us how you never sin. My guess is you believe that you keep all the commands (rules) perfectly.

    I usually don't do this, but I gotta tell you something, From the average christian's view point, we see your arrogance as sin. Ken Sublett is a sinner! You have no mercy for anyone, and you love to create havoc amoung your denomination, but guess what, hardly anyone listens any more. We've got you figgured out, you serve the devil, not the God of mercy. Your sin is so evident and it abounds. …

    Ken, be careful, your sin abounds. …

    Ken, I know you believe your "perfect" understanding of God's word will save you, but you are wrong, the law will only convict you of your sin and your need for mercy. …

    Ok Ken, I know what you are thinking (real-life) is wacko, everyone knows the old law has been done away with. Correct, but many like you have converted the gospel of grace into a new set of laws. Guess what, you cannot keep those perfectly either, for you are a man filled with sin! …

    I know this sounds harsh, but you need the saving grace provided for by the blood of Christ. Come to Jesus and be forgiven, accept God's mercy and be saved. Your own righteousness is filthy rags and you know it. Turn to Jesus, he has the power to forgive sin and has provided the powerful cleansing blood which takes away sin. Learn to rely on Him for your salvation, because Ken has no power of his own. Stop serving the devil, and begin serving the God of mercy. Yes, God loves even Ken, with all of his sin….


I’ve never in my life read anything written by someone who thinks he is like God who knows the heart of a man. Guess what? Feel free to call Ken whatever your heart desires, but it is not your place to condemn him. Ken is “a sinner” … wow! And Ken’s “sin abounds”? And real-life is sinless and real-life’s righteousness abounds? Wow … again.

Wait … let’s see who is more arrogant? The one who thinks someone is “wacko” or the one who has judged someone a “sinner” whose “sin abounds”?

Donnie

 
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real-life

68.94.206.167

Re: Dear Judge Murray:

June 26 2005, 6:53 AM 

Mr. Cruz, the reason you have never read anything like this before, is because you have never been confronted before, You see, the word of God is our Judge and we are all sinners.

First John 1: 8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

Mr Cruz, the truth is we are not without sin. I will freely admit that I am not without sin, however I do not trust in my own righteousness. My goal is to expose you and Mr. Sublett as sinners, because for some reason you guys have taken it upon yourselfs to judge all the rest of us who disagree with your man made rules.

So, who has been sitting on the THRONE on this website? Men who thing they are without sin who are willing to cast the first stone, that's who.

The church of Christ has generally taught that once we become christians, we somehow magically become non-sinners with all truth. The mainline cofc has been so arrogant for so long, they seem to forget that it was the BLOOD of Jesus which saves us. Many act as though they are so self-righteous, that they really saved themselfs by their own goodness. After we have obeyed the five step plan then the burden to stay saved is placed on our ability to not sin anymore. It would have been better if they were to have drowned in the baptitstry, which is their best chance to stay saved.

Am I angry, you bet I am. Jesus was angry with the Pharasis during his time and he confronted them. You guys are modern day Pharasis, plain and simple.

Goodby and lots of luck. But of course, if you would just trust in the righteousness of Jesus, you would no nonger need luck. I pray peace and blessings on you, in the name of Jesus.

I wonder if you will have the courage to post this!


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Judge, right off, you misquoted me in your beginning statement. You said, “Mr. Cruz, the reason you have never read anything like this before….” Here’s what I said: “I’ve never in my life read anything written by someone who thinks he is like God who knows the heart of a man

    I don’t intend to explain further anything else to you as it would be a waste of time. Your perceptions and misconceptions of the church you left are obviously twisted beyond repair. Pantego Bible Church … did you say? Please stay where you are before you do any more damage to the church you left behind.

    My only other suggestion to you is to look up this word in the dictionary, concordance or commentary—the word “Pharasis”—and I honestly believe that after you have done as suggested, you would never again use the same word against me or Ken.

    Donnie


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 68.19.233.117 on Jun 27, 2005 12:28 AM


 
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Ken Sublett

63.84.81.69

Judge Murray

June 26 2005, 6:41 PM 

That STILL makes you WACKO because you lie about those you do not know and you are probably on the DOLE and don't even know the MEANING of a Pharisee.

Neither Donnie nor anyone else rides tandem on the backs of widows and orphans it is not REMOTELY possible that we be Pharisees. That is like calling people a Hireling when they are not HIRED.

That is like saying that people DELIBERATELY change the Word of God specificially so that God's word is NOT taught and so that they canget paid. donnie doesn't do that.

A Pharisee makes long sermons and prayers (songs) SO THAT he can eat up the living of the widows. Ken doesn't do that.

You are wacko because you have NEVER heard me spout about ME but about the Bible which I really care less whether you believe or not AS LONG as you are not part of the Pharisee task of INFILTRATING and DIVERTING the church house of widows.

I don't DO religionism, hold meetings, write COVENANTS, take up collections, plan your ever waking hour and steal your child's health care money. Therefore, you are the ADVERSARY who just fabricates images in your head and then PASSES judgment on your images.

I have been part of this forum BEFORE it began. When someone posts a comment or question my task is to evaluate it by what the Bible and usually-lied-about history proves. If people don't want to DEBATE then they should remain with the girls, children and singy-clappies and not ENTER the battle.

This THREAD began by a comment which was a lie just like your own judgmentalism. I corrected that and expected that MASCULINE MALES and even FEMALES could do a rebuttal without falling into a weepy, hand flinging break down.

If you FLY a silly flag I will shoot it down because God tells us to TEST THE SPIRITS and most of the opponents of this forum are UP TO THEIR tender parts in lying, cheating and stealing the property of weeping widows.

Furthermore the First Ammentment gives me the RIGHT to be the FOURTH ESTATE of apostate religionism.

Where did you get EDICATED to hallucinate that teaching the Bible on ALL issues is being LEGALISTIC? I KNOW that to be part of the AGENDA of the changelings who use PSYCHOLOGICAL VIOLENCE to try to intimidate anyone tellying the world what they are doing behind the barn. Why don't YOU get some testesterone and TELL us what is wrong with any view you PICK.

    Jer 23:26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;

    Jer 23:27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal.

    Jer 23:28 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the Lord.


 
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Ken Sublett

63.84.81.1

Re: Dear Judge Murray:

June 27 2005, 7:12 AM 

    The church of Christ has generally taught that once we become christians, we somehow magically become non-sinners with all truth. The mainline cofc has been so arrogant for so long, they seem to forget that it was the BLOOD of Jesus which saves us. Many act as though they are so self-righteous, that they really saved themselfs by their own goodness. After we have obeyed the five step plan then the burden to stay saved is placed on our ability to not sin anymore. It would have been better if they were to have drowned in the baptitstry, which is their best chance to stay saved.
Well, Judge, I will say that is a very powerful lie on all counts. However, did someone say Pantego Bible Church? Just click on this and you will see the meaning of LEGALISTIC TRAFFICK:

http://www.pantego.org/index_believe.cfm

They will TAKE you and your money: online, credit card! No Church of Christ would do THAT. Most ministries do a disclaimer saying that non-members are NOT asked to give.

They have a Prayer and Fasting thingy: Only a LEGALIST could traffic on the idea that FASTING is an act of worship or something you DO. Fasting is someting you DON'T DO when you are occupied with other things.

They have a CONSTITUTION: Is that legal or what?

http://www.pantego.org/about_pbc/pbc_constitution_doctrine.htm

Sounds like a SECULAR INSTITUTION: the church HAS NONE of these functions except to be a SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE. Sounds highly FEMALE run.

Church Membership

I. Qualification

The membership of the church shall consist of individuals who have confessed the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Savior, accepted the doctrinal statement contained herein in its entirety, agreed to be governed by this Constitution, and approved for membership upon examination by the Board members.

They have a picture of a GUITARIST as a worship minister? Wow! Words with endings like guitarIST are interchangeably in the Greek and Latin resources with PARASITE. The Apostolic Constitutions of the CHURCH OF CHRIST outlawed guitarISTS from membership.

 
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Robert

129.71.204.146

Avoid Divisive Persons

November 17 2012, 3:32 PM 

Avoid Divisive Persons
Romans 16:16-18 New King James Version (NKJV)
16 Greet one another with a holy kiss. The churches of Christ greet you.
17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. 18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.
Ephesians 4:30-32 New International Version (NIV)
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
Saved in Order to Do Good
Titus 3:1-7 New International Version (NIV)
1 Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good, 2 to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and always to be gentle toward everyone.
3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

 
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Ken Sublett

63.84.81.69

Laws?

June 26 2005, 3:19 PM 

Veee ree uh good, Christ-i-un.

Now, what LAWS do you think Ken depends on? I'll bet from the hostility that you did singy-clappy this morning? Hay, if you do that then you have to OUT yourself and get Pride. Don't fall into the trap that I am legalistic because i DO NOT join in all the childhood games.

Ken is such an anti-legalist that he fixed the second pot of coffee, worked on some bread starter, listened to some GOOD sermons (you know, that old Bible stuff--maybe before your time).

Then to show you how full of grace Ken is, he saw that the buzzy bees were getting slim pickings and I try to FOSTER bee life. I--this is going to shame you into tears--I HAND FED them with maple syrup! Isn't that presshuush-uh?

My most spiritual joy was watching them line up and slurp up the syrup until they staggared off. It took several tries before they could beat their LEFT wing against their RIGHT wing and finally get airborne from all of the turbulance. There's a parable there.

I had a GNAP because Jesus told me he died to give me REST: stop the preaching, stop the singing, stop the playing, stop creating the PANic (Pan: the little queer musical guy)

Now, I am thinking of legalistically SKIPPING another batch and hatch sesson even thought they ASSURE me that if I want to meet GOD I will have to be there on time. I quit doing all of those legalistic thingys YOU probably get paid to perform and discovered that they LIED. Lied, I tell you: God CAN find His way to my sick house so that I don't have to do VISITATION and PAY the minister turned master.

If I knew what you were saying I probably still would not have much more time to waste. All of that Christ-i-un sweet love is driving my diabetes meter over the edge.

 
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christ-follower

24.151.230.90

wow

October 5 2005, 7:05 PM 

Sorry to have not responded in a while. Thank you for the dissertaion on the reasons music in the church is wrong etc. If you'll read over my original post, you'll find that was not a topic I adressed nor stated my views on. For all you know I could agree with you. The point I apparently was unclear on (I'm not sure how I'm related to the preacher boys?) was that REGARDLESS of these issues that there are obviously differences of opinion, shouldn't we be focused on those who haven't heard or those who are most ready to hear the amazing news of the gospel? I mean I know there needs to be a place where those who are angry need to discuss what they're struggling with, but I don't think they should be stuck there. I know I don't know you Ken, but I would hope that if I strongly disagreed with a body of believers, that I would first try to adress the issue with other members (which I'm sure you did), secondly give some time to see if this was a permanant situation that wouldn't be reconciled to the way I believed scriptures taught should be, and then thirdly I would move on and look for another church that I believed followed the scriptures and refocus on seeking and saving the lost. Music/no-music, clapping/no-clapping, etc/etc - don't you think that if you believe non-instrumental worship is the scriptural standard, that you should find a church who does also and just roll up your sleeves and start sharing the message of Christ? I guess my point is just that when we all have these issues that we disagree on, can't we just move on? Even if we believe music is a salvational issue, can't we find a church that feels the same and move on?

 
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Adrian Hardwick

71.227.57.232

Re: OLD topic? Still hurting?

February 6 2008, 10:25 PM 

Jesus said or (at least implied) that satans kingdom was not divided and if it was how could it stand, for any kingdom divided against itself shall fall. This was all said in response to the accusation that Jesus cast out devils by the devil. But if the devils are indeed being cast out... that it was God who was doing so, and not the devil.

Isaiah said that it is the anointing which destroys the yoke- Isaiah 10:27. So when King Saul was oppressed by the "evil spirit" how was it that David eased his (King Saul) sufferings? (1 samuel 16:14-23 and 18:10...note the word "times", David ministered to Saul in that anointed yoke destroying fashion on more than one occasion!!) What purpose did the minstrel play in the hand of the Lord coming apon Elisha when the minstrel began to play his instruments? (2 Kings 3:15) And again what were the prophets that Samuel told King Saul to meet doing with musical instruments on the hill of God? (1 Samuel 10:5)- Elisha Gave us a clue.

I understand the neccessity of etymology, which brings me to my point, words evolve... which is part of the point of etymology to understand words better in the light of their origins. BUT exegesis studies the words in the text and how the words relate to the text, and what was meant by the original author. Eisegesis is the act of adding to the context which is what I believe the Church of Christ may very well be doing in the instance of instruments.

 
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PPB

70.116.84.97

Re: A New Topic

June 24 2005, 7:27 PM 

Remember Jesus's anger at the temple with the money changers? Remember his statement regarding not knowing those who taught and preached in his name when the judgement day arrived? Remember his comment about "narrow is the road and few there are that will find it"?

I really wonder about those people who profess to be Christians and quote only part of the scriptures - the one's we all know and live by - but seem to have "selective memory" about the rest of the scriptures.

I also wonder what the change agents would have said about Paul, John and Peter and their letters had they been members of one of the 1st Churches. This is how it would probably have gone:

"Paul, your letter was extremely rude and negative. What happened to God's love and Jesus' blood? Wasn't that enough for you? Why are you always getting on to us about the things we are doing wrong? They are just outward things that shouldn't really matter in the overall scheme of things. It's how we like it and I don't remember Jesus really saying anything about them. You are really causing division in the Church with your legalistic attitude. You worry over and over again about what we should and shouldn't do instead of God's mercy and love. You know what, your not as special as you think you are. I don't have to listen to you because your not Jesus and your not always right. Stop telling me to watch out for false teachers and admonish them. That's too negative and I don't want to be negative. Being a Christian is about Love and kindness. You are so wrong and hateful. You even hate women!"

or

"John, your "visions" about the Churches was extremely hateful. You seem to be full of anger and hate. What do you have against these changes in the Churches? These are minor issues that shouldn't matter. We are predestined to be saved and therefore the light will never leave us. Your visions are evil. We are to be positive and spread Jesus' message of love. You are dwelling on boundaries and behaviors that won't matter at the end. God's mercy will cover us. Go away you legalist and stop dwelling on the negatives and scriptures. You know what, since I don't agree with your writings I've decided that you were not inspired by God. So I don't have to listen to you anyway."

Yep...that's what they would say because it's exactly what they are saying now. Just not directly to their faces. Isn't time and distance a great thing when you're thumbing your nose at someone?



 
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Josh

67.171.139.17

What Christ would do?

July 2 2005, 12:22 AM 

My guess, most likely, would be that he would grab a whip and drive out the elders and the people driving change in this church. He wouldn't spend a lot of time talking about it, he would fix it.


 
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Paul Joseph Chappin

207.4.117.14

He would talk of heaven

September 12 2005, 6:22 AM 

I think He would talk of heaven. It is a great motivation in the Christian's life. I am looking forward to it. All people need to hear of Jesus' sacrifice, but if He came back, I think He would talk of home. All that we struggle for here is found complete, true, in its greatest extreme and forever in heaven.

 
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UncleJerry

205.240.131.75

Response to thread

September 13 2005, 9:07 AM 

WOW!!!!!!!! I say, WOW!!!!!!!!!! Ken: As I read your post fire was flaming out of my screen. My hair is sticking straight back like riding a motorcycle at 110 M.P.H. I have NO idea what point you were attempting to make. "NONE!!!!!" I vividly see you are VERY angy at someone, or something, but for the love of heaven I know not what. Take a second and write one simple paragraph (leave the hate and fire out) and please tell me your point. What's going on? Who's doing what? Let me in on this situation. You never know, I may agree with you. At this point I have "NO" idea what or who you are ranting about. Jerry

 
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Jenna

209.95.240.214

A response much needed....

September 23 2005, 10:33 AM 

I am so heartbroken and disturbed over what I am reading. I am praying for each of you. In my heart, I do not believe that God is pleased. His wrath should be avoided at all costs. No power gained through eldership, servitude, or dissension (spelling?) is worth it.

I will pray for everyone in this list by name.

In Christ, Jenna

 
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Kat Power

69.152.235.167

Insight on a hostile takeover of our little church-help!

January 2 2008, 6:49 PM 

Maybe someone out there might give some advise on a issue we have going on at our church. About 8 or 9 months ago, our pastor who founded the church, resigned. We have about 100 members of a full gospel, mostly older church. The new pastor who we didn't research or get any references on (bad idea), has decided to fire the board that the members had voted in. The board tried to tell him that he couldn't fire the board, the congregation would have to. If you disagree with anything this new pastor says, he says "you have a contentious spirit". He now has appointed a new board, which is uncomfortable because most of this church has been good friends and we have known each other for years. He has tried to get the secretary's name off of the checking accout and told one of the board members to get on his hands and knees and beg HIS forgiveness. The 60 or so members that still have their brains engaged have hired a lawyer. We are concerned that he is trying his best to get his hands on the money that this small church has managed to save (sbout 140,000.) I am ready to take a hike, but the old (legal) board is trying to protect the church. Should we just let this guy take over and see what happens or fight the dude. He has hired a constable to be in our 100 member church in case someone gets out of line with him. We are suppose to have a business meeting this Sunday to vote his butt out but he said we couldn't have the meeting. We have a constitution that shows what he is doing is not in his power, but he just ignores it. What would you guys do? Ya'll seem pretty savvy on all this stuff. I have been told that I am not spiritual enough by this guy, (he is probably right). I have been praying about it. Maybe ya'll could too. My heart is broken because I have been going to this church since I was 12 years old (I am 47 now), and I hate to see what it is doing to everybody. It's really sad. Advise would be appreciated.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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