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Ken Sublett

The Kingdom does not come with Religious Observations.

February 15 2012, 10:08 AM 

Jesus said that the Kingdom of God is within us and DOES NOT COME with Observation


that OUTLAWS religious assemblies as Worship Assemblies
Non sequiter; your conclusion doesn't follow from your non-existent evidence.

Lk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Lk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Lk 17:22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come,
when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.

Lk 17:23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there:
go not after them, nor follow them.

The synagogue of Christ commanded REST, reading and REHEARSING The Word of God. Jesus stood up to READ the assigned text and quite decently sat down. Until Jesus returns we had better be in our closets and quiet places because Satan will invite you to COME OVER HERE especialy if a "spirit" told you to impose instrumental sorcery and you can get by with sowing discord. Christ calls us OUT of the World.

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This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Feb 15, 2012 10:16 AM

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Brian Cade

Re: The Kingdom does not come with Religious Observations.

February 15 2012, 10:55 AM 

You cannot use different definitions of the same word with impunity. The context of a given passage dictates the primary meaning of any word used. The context of Exodus 32 does not allow the definition of play as "perform on a musical instrument." When you continue to insist that it does, you are being dishonest. When you continue to insist that it does in spite of clear evidence to the contrary, then you are being pig-headed. You are a dishonest scholar and an ineffective teacher and until you learn to communicate effectively without deception or rancor, I suggest you quit hijacking these threads.

29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers .
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 And be ye kind one to another , tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Ephesians 4:29-32(KJV)

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Ken Sublett

Ephesians 4: Unity in Diversity?

February 15 2012, 11:32 AM 

The NAME of the Holy Spirit Comforter is "Jesus Christ the Righteous." If you musicators build on the foundatioon of a man who heard a spirit he is a blasphemer. When The Spirit Lord appeared to Paul to let him hear his voice to qualify for spiritual guidance, He said "I am Jesus of Nazareth." If your preacher will not say that Jesus Christ The Holy Spirit in his glorified state spoke and appeared to HIM do not believe any of the NACC promoted lies about God and To God.

People who fabricate feel good or try to manipulate your mind (witchcraft) by rhetorical styles and violating the meaning of LOGOS to make your own experiences as enhancements to God in Christ, or if you sing those creepy praise songs in that CCM effeminate style you DO NOT love anyone but yourself. Even the Scribes and Pharisees would do that.

Paul says you have to SET DOWN and SHUT UP all of the performing artist before you can let Jesus Christ be your teacher using what HE commanded to be taught and observed.

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This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Feb 15, 2012 11:38 AM

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Ken Sublett

No Redemption

February 15 2012, 11:16 AM 

Your notion of a sin without redemption is false; God Himself says otherwise in verse 11, 15-16, and 19. Where do you come off telling anyone God is wrong?

Your turn; what is your definition of PLAY which is always the sin without redemption when the ekklesia or synagogue is A School (only) of the Word (only) of Christ (only).

These versed come before Christ defining the musical idolatry as a mark:

Ezekiel 33:14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
Ezekiel 33:15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.

The fact is that the Musical Idolalter has told Christ to close Mouth: this needs no proving if you listen to the sin of SELF-SPEAK sermons and songs.

Mark me, and be astonished, and lay your hand upon your mouth Job 21:5 .

Even when I remember I am afraid, and trembling taketh hold on my flesh. Job 21:6

Wherefore do the wicked live, become old, yea, are mighty in power? Job 21:7

Their seed is established in their sight with them, and their offspring before their eyes. Job 21:8
Their houses are safe from fear, neither is the rod of God upon them. Job 21:9
Their bull gendereth, and faileth not; their cow calveth, and casteth not her calf. Job 21:10
They send forth their little ones like a flock, and their children dance. Job 21:11
They take the timbrel and harp, and rejoice at the sound of the organ. Job 21:12
They spend their days in wealth, and in a moment go down to the grave. Job 21:13


Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways. Job 21:14

What is the Almighty, that we should serve him? and what profit should we have, if we pray unto him? Job 21:15

"It (the pipe meaning to love passionately) was apparently a secular instrument and is never listed in the temple orchestra; only in Ps. 150:4 it is mentioned in a religious (but not ritual) function. Its ethos was not blameless at all, as we see from Genesis Rabbah 50:

"The angels said to Lot: There are players of the pipe (organ) in the country, hence it ought to be destroyed. Its rabbinical identification with the aboda, the flute of the notorious Syrian bayaderes, emphasizes the erotic element which already the Hebrew name suggests. (Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, p. 460, Abingdon).

I believe that the 120 baptized as an offering by John was the prophesied tiny remnant: Peter said they HAD NOT bowed to Baal which is aroused by Jezebel's musicians.

The point is why LUST after "praise singers" to violate both the RESOURCE by Christ and the presentation demanded as SPEAK when there is overwhelming proof that you don't know of any preacher or musician so lifted up that they can disobey the command of Christ for the Church in the wilderness which never changed. The Synagogue / Ekklesia had no praise service: it was outlawed so you can Rest, Read and Rehearse the Word; Disciples go to BIBLEE class while only lost superstitious people need to appease or please God to keep from getting hurt.

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time
.....hath in every city them
.....that preach him,
.....being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

That pattern is repeated throughout the Epistles.

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Brian Cade

Re: No Redemption

February 15 2012, 1:13 PM 

There is no such word as musicate. Second, I've noticed that you are committing the logical fallacy of petitio principii or arguing in a circle. You cannot tie the parts of your argument together without independent evidence.
Recalling Ephesians 4:29 - "Let no corrupt communication come out of your mouth." Faulty logic is corrupt communication. Therefore, your argument is invalid. QED.

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Ken Sublett

Logos or the WORD prohibits preacher's school logic

February 15 2012, 3:51 PM 

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Brian Cade

Re: Logos or the WORD prohibits preacher's school logic

February 15 2012, 11:55 PM 

"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints" - 1 Cor 14:33.
Paul was well versed in the rules of logic. Why would God forbid its use by one of the most educated men of his day? Your argument is invalid.

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Brian Cade

Re: Logos or the WORD prohibits preacher's school logic

February 16 2012, 12:17 AM 

Here is the full text of Romans 14 -

1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye , but not to doubtful disputations.
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak , eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and letnot him which eateth not judge him that eateth : for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standet hor falleth . Yea, he shall be holden up : for God is able to make him stand .
5 One man esteemeth one day above another : another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth , eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks ; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks .
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live , we live unto the Lord; and whether we die , we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die , we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ both died , and rose , and revived , that he might be Lord both of the dead and living .
10 But why dost thou judgethy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written , As I live , saith the Lord , every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14 I know , and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably . Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died .
16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of :
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth , or is offended , or is made weak .
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth .
23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat , because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. (KJV)

The text does not forbid personal preferences outright. It forbids the exercise of personal preference at the expense of a brother's (or sister's) conscience. We're commanded to use discretion and forego the exercise of our preferences if it will cause them a crisis of conscience. Your argument is invalid.

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Yes, I have a copy of Romans 14

February 16 2012, 9:18 AM 

Disciples assemble for EDUCATION: this is the ONE ANOTHER meaning of speaking with ONE MIND and ONE MOUTH using that which is written as a DIRECT COMMAND in Romans 15.

Those who imposed music at an time in church history KNEW that they would sow discord and they did not follow PEACE. God specificially HATES religious festivals (Acts, Isaiah etal) and HATES people who sow discord.

Eating was not part of the synagogue and outlawed for the church, so these would be excluded from discussion when the only discussion material was "that which is written" or "Scripture." Paul DID NOT say that you must accept everyone in the ASSEMBLY: You MUST NOT accept those whose PREFERENCE is instrumental music which is not just the diet preferences and the pagan holy days they showed up to buy the surplus food from sacrifice.

Proslambano (g4355) pros-lam-ban'-o; from 4314 and 2983; to take to oneself, i.e. use (food), lead (aside), admit to friendship or hospitality: - receive, take (unto).

What is commanded to be excluded:

Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but NOT to doubtful disputations.

Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God,
how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements,
whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

WEAK applies to the vegetarians in respect to food: WEAK applies to those who engage in musical idolatry where they get the fresh meat. The Church provides a place where CHRIST provides the preaching and teaching: Jesus never attempted to TEACH by singing nor did anyone else until post Reformation.

Asthen-eia , h, A. want of strength, weakness,4. in moral sense, feebleness, weakness, ts anthrpins phuses Pl.Lg. 854a, cf. Arist.EN1150b19; tou akroatou

WEAK: Latin In-firmus, Weak in mind or character, superstitious, pusillanimous, inconstant, light-minded: very uncertain, not to be depended on, Of things, of no weight or consequence, weak, trivial, inconclusive

The religious sects which would see others buying and eating where most people took their meals were the Dionysics (meat, drink, MUSICAL) and the Orphics (vegetarians, MUSICAL). The synagogue defined in Romans 15 was for EDIFICATION: the command was to PREACH the Word (only) by READING that which is written for our learning and private interpretation outlawed further expounding with one's personal opinions which have a NEGATIVE effect on people there to LEARN of Jesus Christ.

Doubtful Disputations would include ANYTHING which did not EDUCATE with that which is written.

Dialogismos often means the perverse, vain thinking which contemplates destruction. It was used to describe the reasoning of those who thought themselves wise (Ro 1:21, 1Cor 3:20)

NIDNTT notes that.. The thoughts of the human heart do not necessarily lead, as the Greeks thought, to a knowledge of the truth (cf. 1 Cor. 1:21-25), but are evil (Mk. 7:21; Matt. 15:19), full of doubt and suspicion (Mk. 2:6, 8; Lk. 5:22; 6:8), moved by the passing moment (Lk. 3:15), full of greed (Lk. 12:17; 20:14), always concerned with the superficial (Mk. 8:16f.; Matt. 16:7f.) and full of sly calculation (Matt. 11:25; Mk. 11:31).

There was NO preaching and NO 'praise singing' in the Church which was a School of the Word: Disciples go to BIBLE CLASS and not to a pagan "worship service."

What is commanded to be included:

Rom. 14:19 Let us therefore follow [Diakonos serve, minister]
after the things which make for peace,
and things wherewith one may edify another.

ALL OF THE MUSICATORS KNOW THAT THEY ARE WAGING WORSHIP WARS IN ORDER TO DRIVE AWAY THE OWNERS. Music always SPLITS congregations even when the owners refuse to be chased out of their property.

God hates musicians in the holy places and commanded that such Levites be killed. God hates people who sow discord. One should be careful of restoring a LEGALISTIC, SECTARIANIZING PATTERNISM.

Hyper Dictionary

\Ed`i*fi*ca"tion\, n. [L. aedificatio: cf. F. ['e]dification.
1. The act of edifying, or the state of being edified; a building up, especially in a moral or spiritual sense; moral, intellectual, or spiritual improvement; instruction. The assured edification of his church. --Bp. Hall.

WordNet [n] uplifting enlightenment

1. [n] education that results in understanding and the spread of knowledge
2. [n] a movement in the 18th century that advocated the use of reason in the reappraisal of accepted ideas and social institutions

On the other hand the LADED BURDENS outlaws the normal pagan arousal songs. SELF pleasure outlaws "creatinit mental excitement." This word includes all of the HYPOCRITIC arts such as rhetoric, singing, playinr or acting.

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On the very large OTHER HAND, no period of recorded history I have researched from clay tablets onward does not understand that musical noises overwhelm thinking ability and contributes to the "spiritual anxiety through religious rituals" Jesus died to provide us with REST." REST or Pauo means

Pauô, includes to: bring to an end, stop or silence by death, take one's rest, cease, have done, of one singing or speaking.

Pauô, includes to: stop the polemos or battle, fight, war: stop levying war against another, anaireisthai or airô egeirein, kathistanai, epagein to begin a war; p. poieisthai to make war, -- opp. to p. anapauein, kataluesthai to put an end to it, make peace, all in attic

Pauô, includes to: STOP the: melôid-ia , hê, singing, chanting,
II. chant, choral song, melôidias poiêtês, lullaby, generally, music

Pauô, includes to: Stop the pain of: aoidê [aeidô]
1. song, a singing, whether the art of song, Hom.; or the act of singing, song, Il.
2. the thing sung, a song, Hom., etc.
3. the subject of song, Od.

Pauô, includes to: Stop the: Panos orgai panic fears (i. e. terrors sent by Pan), Eur.:--but, orgê tinos anger against a person or at a thing, hierôn orgas wrath at or because of the rites.

Why is that important? Because aoiding is related to the MUSES of Revelation 18 and John called them SORCERERS.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Feb 16, 2012 9:40 AM

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Brian Cade

Re: Yes, I have a copy of Romans 14

February 16 2012, 10:44 AM 

In Romans 14, "weak" applies to the brother whose conviction on a given matter is different from yours. That has no bearing on the fact that you have deliberately equivocated on the meaning of "play" in Exodus 32 and are consequently teaching falsely. Your argument is invalid.

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I Will Give You Rest

February 16 2012, 11:13 AM 

Those who bore laded burdens (songs) were promised REST: The Greek Pauo means REST.

I have posted MOST of the ways PAUO is used in the Bible and Greek literature. Whatever you plan to do as "worship services" Jesus said JUST STOP IT. Your burden is to determine which of these things PAUO is said to STOP or SILENCE you can just IGNORE because you need to be a burden lader to justify your existence.

I have left out most of the LINKS so you can focus on the things INCLUDED when Jesus promised REST. You can dig for yourself if you are willing to spend a year or so.

Or you might have a LOGICAL meaning of the word BURDEN and the word REST to fit your patternism.

If you are unwilling to accept historic scholarship to defend lading BURDENS including "a tax not in time of war" then we wish you the best.

If Jesus gave us REST which has the same meaning as SABBATH which outlawed anything but PREACHING the word by READING the Word then you repudiate the Work and WORD of Jesus Christ who IS the only Master Teacher over HIS flock.

Perhaps others are unwilling to trump the Word of Christ and the UNIVERSAL meaning of the Word Jesus PICKED. REST means REST as in the word REST. A SERVICE under the Law and now is called HARD BONDAGE. Musicators and Fabricators are NOT Disciples and cannot be Christians.

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Ken Sublett

EVERYONE agrees but the Latter Day Slants

February 16 2012, 2:07 PM 

John Calvin wrote:

For why is a woe pronounced upon the rich who have received their consolation? (Luke 6: 24,) who are full, who laugh now, who "lie upon beds of ivory and stretch themselves upon their couches;" "join house to house," and "lay field to field;" "and the harp and the viol, the tabret and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts," (Amos 6: 6; Isa. 5: 8, 10.)

Certainly ivory and gold, and riches, are the good creatures of God, permitted, nay destined, by divine providence for the use of man; nor was it ever forbidden to laugh, or to be full, or to add new to old and hereditary possessions, or to be delighted with music, or to drink wine.
This is true, but when the means are supplied to roll and wallow in luxury,
to intoxicate the mind and soul with present
and be always hunting after new pleasures,
is very far from a legitimate use of the gifts of God.

Harmony of the Law - Volume 2 by John Calvin

"For this office, to which they were appointed, was no servile one, as that they should blow the trumpets at the command of others; but rather did God thus set them over public affairs,

that the people might not tumultuously call their assemblies in the blindness and precipitation of passion, but rather that modesty, gravity, and moderation should be observed in them.

We know how often in earthly affairs God is not regarded, but counsels are confidently discussed without reference to His word.

He testified, therefore, by this employment of the priests, that all assemblies, except those in which He should preside, were accursed.

"Profane nations also had their ceremonies, such as auguries, supplications, soothsayings, victims, because natural reason dictated that nothing could be engaged in successfully without Divine assistance; but God would have His people bound to Him in another way, so that, when called by the sound of the sacred trumpets as by a voice from heaven,
they should assemble to holy and pious deliberations.

The circumstance of the place also has the same object. The door of the Tabernacle was to them, as if they placed themselves in the sight; of God.

We will speak of the word dewm, mogned (synagogue) elsewhere. Although it signifies an appointed time, or place, and also an assembly of the people, I prefer translating it convention, because God there in a solemn manner, as if before

His sacred tribunal, called the people to witness, or, according to appointment, proceeded to make a covenant with them.

Thus Malvenda in Poole's Syn., "et clangetis taratantara." The word is used by Ennius "At tuba terribili sonitu taratantara dixit." -- Serv. in, AEn, 4. A.V., "an alarm."

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Brian Cade

Re: EVERYONE agrees but the Latter Day Slants

February 16 2012, 2:34 PM 

So what?

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Ken Sublett

They sat down to Eat and Rose up to play

February 16 2012, 3:32 PM

I have added all of the definitions of PLAY used by Paul to define the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai as demon worship.

I have left all of the links on this post but some of them will be wrong.

Simple reading the text will reprove about all you pay a too-high ticket price to see a team of Actors (hypocrites) performing a five-act Play which you may watch as an audience and be assured that they have brought God down to eat, drink and PLAY with you.

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Brian Cade

Re: They sat down to Eat and Rose up to play

February 17 2012, 12:16 AM 

I have added all of the definitions of PLAY used by Paul to define the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai as demon worship.

Here is the entire text of Exodus 32:

1 And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up , make us gods, which shall gobefore us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me.
3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.
4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said , These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation , and said , To morrow is a feast to the LORD.
6 And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink , and rose up to play .
7 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go , get thee down ; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:
8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said , These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
10 Now therefore let me alone , that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.
11 And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said , LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?
12 Wherefore should the Egyptians speak , and say , For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people.
13 RememberAbraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.
14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
15 And Moses turned , and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written .
16 And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.17 And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, There is a noise of war in the camp.
18 And he said , It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear .
19 And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot , and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.
20 And he took the calf which they had made , and burnt it in the fire, and ground it to powder , and strawed it upon the water, and made the children of Israel drink of it.
21 And Moses said unto Aaron, What did this people unto thee, that thou hast brought so great a sin upon them?
22 And Aaron said , Let not the anger of my lord wax hot : thou knowest the people, that they are set on mischief.
23 For they said unto me, Make us gods, which shall gobefore us: for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
24 And I said unto them, Whosoever hath any gold, let them break it off. So they gave it me: then I cast it into the fire, and there came out this calf.
25 And when Moses saw that the people were naked ; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies
26 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said , Who is on the LORD'S side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.
27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.
28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.
29 For Moses had said , Consecrate yourselves to day to the LORD, even every man upon his son, and upon his brother; that he may bestow upon you a blessing this day.
30 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonementfor your sin.
31 And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said , Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.
32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin-; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written .
33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
34 Therefore now go , lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall gobefore thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.
35 And the LORD plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made.

Notice that the emphasis here is not on whatever music may have been used or how it was produced: the point of the passage is to report the fact that the people turned away from the God who led them out of Egypt. You have made one of the most common errors of biblical interpretation; you have built doctrine on your self-generated prejudice and then proof-texted your evidence. That's exactly backwards and you are wrong to do so.
Additionally, the context of the passage does not allow for both "frolic" and "perform on a musical instrument" as definitions for the word "play". The primary meaning in this instance is "frolic". To insist on both definitions as being equally valid is equivocation. Again, you are wrong to do so.

I have left all of the links on this post but some of them will be wrong.

Simple reading the text will reprove about all you pay a too-high ticket price to see a team of Actors (hypocrites) performing a five-act Play which you may watch as an audience and be assured that they have brought God down to eat, drink and PLAY with you.

Frankly, you sound like a petulant child.

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Ken Sublett

All musicians are defined as HYPOCRITES

February 17 2012, 9:43 AM 

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Re: All musicians are defined as HYPOCRITES

February 17 2012, 10:25 AM 

That's circular reasoning - "All musicians are defined as hypocrites. Why? Because all hypocrites are musicians." No independent corroboration for either position. The above does nothing to provide evidence for your assertion. Grade = Fail

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Ken Sublett

Christ said in Isaiah 3

February 17 2012, 10:32 AM 

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Feb 17, 2012 11:19 AM

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Brian Cade

Re: Christ said in Isaiah 3

February 17 2012, 12:51 PM 

Here is the text of Isaiah 2-4:

1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say , Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebukemany people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift upsword against nation, neither shall they learnwar any more.
5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.
6 Therefore thou hast forsaken thy people the house of Jacob, because they be replenished from the east, and are soothsayers like the Philistines, and they please themselves in the children of strangers.
7 Their land also is full of silver and gold, neither is there any end of their treasures; their land is also full of horses, neither is there any end of their chariots:
8 Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made :
9 And the mean man boweth down , and the great man humbleth himself: therefore forgive them not.
10Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty.
11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled , and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down , and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
12 For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty , and upon every one that is lifted up ; and he shall be brought low :
13 And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up , and upon all the oaks of Bashan,
14 And upon all the highmountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up ,
15 And upon every high tower, and upon every fencedwall,
16 And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures.
17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down , and the haughtiness of men shall be made low : and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
18 And the idols he shall utterly abolish .
19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship , to the moles and to the bats;
21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of ?

Chapter 3

1 For, behold, the Lord, the LORD of hosts, doth take away from Jerusalem and from Judah the stay and the staff, the whole stay of bread, and the whole stay of water,
2 The mighty man, and the man of war, the judge , and the prophet, and the prudent , and the ancient,
3 The captain of fifty, and the honourableman, and the counsellor , and the cunning artificer, and the eloquentorator.
4 And I will givechildren to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them.
5 And the people shall be oppressed , every one by another, and every one by his neighbour: the child shall behave himself proudly against the ancient, and the base against the honourable .
6 When a man shall take hold of his brother of the house of his father, saying, Thou hast clothing, be thou our ruler, and let this ruin be under thy hand:
7 In that day shall he swear , saying , I will not be an healer ; for in my house is neither bread nor clothing: make me not a ruler of the people.
8 For Jerusalem is ruined , and Judah is fallen : because their tongue and their doings are against the LORD, to provoke the eyes of his glory.
9 The shew of their countenance doth witness against them ; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewardedevil unto themselves.
10 Say ye to the righteous, that it shall be well with him: for they shall eat the fruit of their doings.
11 Woe unto the wicked! it shall be ill with him: for the reward of his hands shall be given him.
12 As for my people, children are their oppressors , and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err , and destroy the way of thy paths.
13 The LORD standeth up to plead , and standeth to judge the people.
14 The LORD will enter into judgment with the ancients of his people, and the princes thereof: for ye have eaten up the vineyard; the spoil of the poor is in your houses.
15 What mean ye that ye beat my people to pieces , and grind the faces of the poor? saith the Lord GOD of hosts.
16 Moreover the LORD saith , Because the daughters of Zion are haughty , and walk with stretched forthnecks and wantoneyes, walking and mincing as they go , and making a tinkling with their feet:
17 Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the LORD will discover their secret parts.
18 In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, and their round tires like the moon,
19 The chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers,
20 The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets , and the earrings,
21 The rings, and nose jewels,
22 The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping pins,
23 The glasses, and the fine linen, and the hoods, and the vails.
24 And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of well set hair baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth; and burning instead of beauty.
25 Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war.
26 And her gates shall lament and mourn ; and she being desolate shall sit upon the ground

Chapter 4

1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying , We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.
2 In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel.
3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be calledholy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning .
5 And the LORD will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence.
6 And there shall be a tabernacle for a shadow in the daytime from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert from storm and from rain.

Isaiah 3 is part of a complete "Woe" concerning Judah and Jerusalem; it has nothing to do with the subject of the type of music used in worship. Again, you've proof-texted your prejudices. Grade = Fail

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Ken Sublett

Now, I am positive that you have a Phduh in Bible

February 17 2012, 3:48 PM 

You should never go past any word in the Bible or any text without being able to define words: that's what happens when preachers think that GOD'S ABANDONMENT to musical idolatry is THEIR COMMAND to impose it and cast people out of their own synagogu.

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

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Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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