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Questions for the Church of Christ

October 25 2011 at 8:35 AM
Ken Sublett 
from IP address 166.248.66.157

The ANTI-church "Answering the Church of Christ" recommends a Roman Catholic site which. Since the Progressive Church of Christ makes the same false charges as the Catholic Church, we will look at this Catholic page.

Questions for the Church of Christ-Faith Facts

http://www.piney.com/Questions.for.the.Church.of.Christ-Faith.Facts.html

Most people doing a hostile takeover of your church are not disciples or students of the Word: that is why they will always pick verses out of a Lexicon which has their favorite word and by a cumulative argument get the simple minded to believe their false teaching.

 
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Ken Sublett

166.248.66.157

Faith Facts Questions for the Church of Christ

October 25 2011, 9:12 AM 

Augustine on the Trinity: A Summary

http://www.piney.com/Trinity.Augustine.html
Faith Facts: The Holy Spirit

Faith Facts: 1. Hughes in his book says that many young people within the church of Christ think their traditional view of the Holy Spirit is "Lashing the Spirit of God to an objective book of paper and inkor, indeed, circumscribing the Spirit with any kind of rational constraintsultimately impoverished the soul and drained life of its meaning." Does this charge concern you?


Consistently with the definition of "spirit," the clear statements by Jesus Christ and classical trinitarians churches of Christ students do not believe that the spirit OF John Doe is another person (people). The "personal' Holy Spirit is Jesus of Nazareth in His post-resurrected and post--glorified state. He said that His words were spirit. That is not another person but the Mind of Christ. Disciples understand that the Mind of Christ is revealed in the Bible: you cannot be a Bible-based disciple and feel the need to go beyond "that which is written for our learning." Those who claim to read "beyond the sacred pages" prove that they cannot read what is within the sacred pages.

Jesus said that "doctors of the law take away the key to knowledge." He named thes Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites. In the Ezekiel 33 model Christ in Spirit named preachers, singers and instrument players. THE primary meaning of a hypocrite is a rhetorician. That especially applies when the preacher goes beyond "that which is written for our learning."

That is a fact because Hughes etal SAY (and say and say and say) that's what we USED to beleive "but now we are educated." The Church of Christ has the same view of the spirit OF Christ as all of the Bible and historic Church Fathers. Anyone who went through preopsitional phrases 101a understands that the spirit OF a person is the person's own spirit or mind or mental disposition. When the foolish people thought that Jesus was speaking of eating His fleshand Drinking His blood he was just fooling the foolish where the Khana-Baal or the Priests of Baal in all paganism were cannibals:

.....It is the SPIRIT that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
.....the WORDS that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63


Christ the Spirit put the same message into Isaiah to draw a parallelism between God's Word and God''s Spirit--again God's Spirit is God's Mind and not another god person inside of Him:

Isaiah 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD;
.....My spirit that is upon thee,
.....and my words which I have put in thy mouth,
..........shall not depart out of thy mouth,
..........nor out of the mouth of thy seed,
..........nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seed, saith the LORD,
..........from henceforth and for ever.


Having read all of the Bible and especially 1 Corinthians 2 those weaned on the Bible in Churches of Christ understand that Paul -- as he often does--draws a parallel:

The Holy Spirit OF God
.....Is to God
What our spirit
.....Is to us.
Then "but WE have the mind of Christ."

None of the classical trinitarians failed to understand that

There is only ONE GOD the Father of the Universe.
There is only ONE Son, Jesus of Nazareth, whom the Father "made to be both Lord and Christ."
The creeds then add as an afterthought "and we believe in the Holy Spirit" but they did not make IT a part of the ONE God in heaven and ONE man on earth to be His Mediator: Moses said 'another prophet like me.'

John who said that the "another Comforter" was Jesus Christ the Righteous also said that if you don't believe in the

One God in Heaven
One Son on Earth

Spirit ONLY means "wind." It is used in a figurative sense of the "breath" of the One Father revealing His Mind to the One Son. In Matthew 23 Jesus said that parables were to fool the foolish Scribes and Pharisees. He called them hypocrites and Christ in Ezekiel called them Rhetoricians (sellers of wined water), singers and instrument players.

Then you are ANTI-Christ and a Blasphemer because you CLAIM something Jesus Christ The Holy Spirit did not reveal to you.

http://www.piney.com/Blasphemy.Against.The.Holy.Spirit.html




 
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Ken Sublett

166.248.67.153

THE FIRST USE OF THE TRIAS CONCEPT

October 25 2011, 5:25 PM 

Theophilus of Antioch: Doctrine of the Trinity

http://www.piney.com/HsTheopTrinity.html

Theophilus was the first person to use the word "trias." This was in the year 181 and the Anathasian Creed was not formulated until the fifth century.

[linked image]

You will say, then, to me, "Is God angry? "Yes; He is angry with those who act wickedly, but He is good, and kind, and merciful, to those who love and fear Him; for He is a chastener [not punisher] of the godly, and father of the righteous; but he is a judge and punisher of the impious.

Chapter IV.-Attributes of God. Theophilus of Antioch, Theophilus of Antioch,

And He is without beginning, because He is unbegotten; and He is unchangeable, because He is immortal.

And he is called God on account of His having placed all things on security afforded by Himself; and on account of any of any foreign means (of) running, and moving, and being active, and nourishing, and foreseeing, and governing, and making all things alive.

But he is Lord, because He rules over the universe;
Father, because he is before all things;
Fashioner and Maker, because He is creator and maker of the universe;
the Highest, because of His being above all;
and Almighty, because He Himself rules and embraces all.


 
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Ken Sublett

166.248.67.153

But, what about the "Baptismal Formula"

October 25 2011, 6:29 PM 

The Bible also predates the "trias" words. The NT predates the LU tritheism by 1938 years. H. Leo Boles, Church of Christ East wing. No one baptized in the NAMES of Father, Son and Spirit until trinitarian baptism during which they were BOUND to baptize THREE TIMES. Father, Son and Spirit are NOT Names. Throughout the Bible EVERYTHING including baptism was done in the NAME of Jesus Christ--there IS no other name.

[linked image]


 
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Ken Sublett

166.248.69.231

Missed prepositional phrases and adjectives, huh?

October 26 2011, 4:46 PM 

I was going to make fun of the The--0--Lites who cannot or will not understand prepositions. For instance the sanctification OF the spirit CANNOT--but--is translated as sanctification BY the Holy Spirit.

Donnie brought everyone up to date on prepositions and I was going to ask about adjectives. Holy Spirit cannot be A NAME or define A "person with their own center of consciousness" but it IS frequently.

Donnie put this into a table: if you are not convinced then don't worry about it because MANY (most) are called but FEW (a puny number) are chosen: chosen or tested by fire.

"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord." (Acts 3:19)


PARALLEL PASSAGES:
ACTS 2:38
ACTS 3:19
REQUIREMENT:
Repent
Repent
(Conjunction)
and
and
REQUIREMENT:
Be baptized...
Be converted
RESULT:
For [so that, toward, UNTO] the remission of sins
That your sins may be blotted out
RESULT:
And ye shall receive the gift of a holy spirit
When the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord
NOTICE:
When sins are remitted, one receives that gift of purity, that spirit of holiness, of being cleansed. [Note: this is a translation issue -- the expression being used to justify reference to the "Holy Spirit" as another "person" in the Godhead.] The word "holy" is an ADJECTIVE that describes the kind of spirit one has when the new birth is experienced. It is one's spirit that is MADE HOLY. Therefore, the gift referred to here is a spirit that is HOLY. When sins are blotted out, the conscience is clear; all guilt is removed. It is "when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord." It is the new birth.
NOT TO BE MISTAKEN:
  • It is NOT the "baptism of the Holy Ghost."
  • It does not make one a Pentecostal.
  • It does not make one charismatic.
  • It does not give one power to heal.
  • It does not give one the gift of gab (speaking in tongues).
  • It does not give one the power to lay hands on others.
  • It is NOT the "baptism of the Holy Ghost."
  • It does not make one a Pentecostal.
  • It does not make one charismatic.
  • It does not give one power to heal.
  • It does not give one the gift of gab (speaking in tongues).
  • It does not give one the power to lay hands on others.


 
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Ken Sublett

166.248.69.231

Church of Christ NEVER trinitarian pre 1938

October 26 2011, 6:55 PM 

All in Christianity do not agree on instrumental music but all in Christianity agree on the trinity including Churches of Christ except for 2 false teachers named Donnie and Ken.

MOST blogs are ANTI-church of Christ and have no trouble just repeating "scholars" but who often just deliberately misrepresent. John Mark Hicks must have broken his spirit trying to force Alexander Campbell into believing in the LU dogma that God is THREE persons each with their own centers of consciousness and each with their own special talent."

The Spirit of Christ WHICH sanctifies is HIS WORD: you have to be blind to miss that.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
....the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

In the NOT musical passages: Romans 15 spells out "that which is written"; Ephesians 5 defines using SPIRIT and in Colossians 3 Paul defined SPIRIT as the Word of Christ.

2Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Thessalonians 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because
....God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation
.... through sanctification of the spirit and belief of the truth:
2Thessalonians 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel,
....to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

At baptism God gives US A holy spirit or A good conscience. That also means A good consciousness or A Co-Perception of the Word of God. Paul told the Corinthians that they could not READ or HEAR the Word of God (the PATTERN ordained by Christ in Spirit in the wilderness)

http://www.piney.com/Alexander.Campbell.Earnest.Spirit.html

Alexander Campbell and others understand that A holy spirit is OUR unholy spirit which has been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ and not His "spirit."

This is...understood by every attentive reader. The original phrase is hagiasmos pneumatos, and is found only in II. Thess. ii. 13; I. Pet. i. 2. In both places it appears to refer to the sanctification of the spirit OF believers. It is literally rendered "sanctification [or holiness] OF spirit." There is no article in the original and no epithet that suggests the Holy Spirit in either passage.

God has chosen men to salvation through (or by) holiness OF spirit;
....not through the holiness of his Spirit,
....but through the holiness of their spirit.

When Jesus prayed (John xvii.) for the sanctification or holiness of his disciples,
....it was through the truth: "Sanctify them through the truth;
....thy word is truth."
The belief of the truth is, therefore, by Paul associated with this holiness or sanctification of spirit.

The Spirit of God is frequently denominated in these days, "the Sanctifier." Let it be granted that it is the Spirit that sanctifies or sets apart men to God, still it must be argued from the Record that he sanctifies them only through the truth or gospel believed.

A sanctified unbeliever is inconceivable;
....and, as "without holiness [or sanctification of spirit] no man can see the Lord;
....so, without faith, there can be no holiness, and no action acceptable to God.


First John defines this unique:
One God the Father (of all monotheists)
One Son Jesus Christ.

The "spirit" is the breath which flows between the ONE GOD ACTOR and the ONE human acted upon.

John says that if you DENY that then you are ANTI-Christ: this IS a salvation issue.

ALL evil in high places flows from preachers who THINK that their imagination is the Holy Spirit living inside making THEM a second incarnation.



 
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Ken Sublett

166.248.68.239

Faith Facts Part Two

October 27 2011, 11:27 AM 

I am ready to pronounce a LAW: Those who oppose the historic view of The Church of Christ in its essentials CAN NEVER grasp that:

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him:
for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,
and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

A Disciple is a Christian: A Disciple is one devoted to seeking knowledge about the MIND of Christ or the SPIRIT of Christ. A Disciple will never fall for the folly that a preacher is ordained to FORMULATE a Scenic and Musical Presentation which they call a worship service.

God always MARKS those who CANNOT read beyond their sought for proof texts. Continuing with the table:

[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]

 
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Scripture

98.87.119.218

Trinity and Unity

October 16 2012, 5:14 PM 

The "mainline" Protestant Churches and Catholic Church very strongly support the "Trinity."

There are numerous "Protestant" churches that do not.

The assumption that Ken and Donnie are out there by themselves is just not true.

Examine the Assemblies of God and United Pentecostal Churches International, for example.

Belief in the Trinity is not necessarily orthodox.

 
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This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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