Re: Are there exceptions to a requirement for Baptism?February 5 2012 at 8:27 PM
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|Sandy (Login AmConvinced)|
Response to Re: Are there exceptions to a requirement for Baptism?
Yes I know what Jay posted Dave.
John was sent to baptize Jesus Christ, so that in turn thereafter, as we are baptize into Jesus Christ, that we receive what is written in Rm. 6:3-8. Meaning the death of the old man so that our righteousness could begin. Which is why Jesus said what he did when He did lead the way for us to follow for what He did say there. Which was for our righteousness to begin then as a result of what He does at the time within us.
As for the baptism in the cloud and Sea that was simply an example of what was to come spiritually for us apparently as well. Not the same of course, but an example only. Just as many things that are written about within the OT can be seen by us as well.
We also have a wilderness experience too, just as Jesus did as well as those did also in the OT. But our experience is spiritual, whereas their was physical. But all those that follow after Jesus will experience the wilderness once they are baptized into or in His name. Both representing the same thing, but just using different wording to describe it. Which often happens in scripture all the time. these are the things that unbeliever try to use to prove that scripture is not saying the same thing at all quite often. Even the same writers can use different ways of describing an issue also. It does not man that scripture is not true, a so many would like to think. It simply means the other failed to put it exactly the same way as others that wrote about the same issue.
Surely you can agree with that, whether you like or agree with what I believe or not, can't you?
As for Jay giving me flack or not, is simply your opinion at best. Meaning maybe and maybe not.
I do agree if one does understand the purpose of baptism, then refuses to be baptized, that one most likely is going to be in heap big trouble at their judgement, that is for sure. And some that refuse to understand the purpose finally, could be in trouble also. But that is not for me or you or anyone else to say IMO. That is God business period as I see it. Unless you can show me that someone else is judging anothers salvation itself, at either one of them of course.
As for not being able to see anothers heart thru our own thoughts, we agree there totally. But I do believe God can reveal the heart of another when He does feel the need to do so just as He did when He had Samuel pick David over all the others finally. Just because Samuel was looking at the outward appearance to begin with, does not man he ended up seeing that only at the end.
Of course, Jesus also gave us a few clues as to how tell what might be within the heart of another too, written in Matthew chapter 15, as well as Mark chapter 7 for example.
But I would have to agree with you on the issue of baptism being of the utmost importance of course. As this is the place where we do begin in Christ according to what scipture says anyway.
I just heard a tape on how many so called christians will end up in hell. No doubt bout it IMO. It is just not my place to send them there. I am sure you would also agree it is not your place to do so either wouldn't you? And therefore I don't do so now either.
As for the baptism in the spirit. That is explained very nicely what happens at that baptism, which is why it says baptisms in the plural written in Hebr. 6:2, unless your going to argue there isn't this baptism needed after that ones does repent finally of course. which could also be described as being confirmed for us by the dove coming down on Jesus, just before God spoke about His being pleased with him. That one being described nicely in Acts 2:1-4, which was the first time this happened, then also in described again rather well in Acts 10:44-46, our knowing this did not happen when one is water baptized always at all because of what was written there in Acts 10:47-48, which tells us again what the baptism in the name of the Lord or in the name, or into Jesus Christ took place of course. Then again it speaks of the two baptisms pretty clearly being done again in Acts 19:5, which had to be about water baptism according to what it says in Acts 10:47-48, then verse 6, describing their receiving the baptism in the Spirit which lines up with Acts chapter 2, plus Acts 10:44-46.
I know that Catholicism teaches water baptism Dave. But mainly before one has repented. But do they teach about the baptism in the Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues also? I know they normally don't, even though some in that church has received. As we used to go to some of the Charismatic type meetings held in the basement of a Catholic Church that was across the street from the apartment Al and I lived in years ago in Amarillo, TX. they just didn't teach it in the church, nor do they today either I do not think. Which is why you no doubt question the s written there in Hebr. 6:2, regarding what is to happen in order for one to be on the foundational principles of Christ that is described there before continuing on as God allows.
Yet scripture clearly says you err as I see it in what you have chosen to believe.
Which confuses me as to why Jay did write what he did write about baptisms. As I know he believe in the baptism in the Holy Ghost, as does Jack also. It is their friend Nucc that does not apparently believe in this one. Of course, some do not believe that is essential to being saved. No doubt Jay and Jack both probably do not. Many if not most believe to be saved, all you have to do is repent pretty much. And not saying that isn't also requried either. But to be born again, you cannot enter into what Jesus is speaking of there until you have received of God what is to be receive by repenting, and being baptized into Jesus Christ at the water, then also recieving the baptism in the Holy Ghost. But does that mean one cannot be saved? I don't know. I just understand now that Jesus was talking about our entering into something He brought for us to enter into right here on earth, he telling us this in what he clearly tells Nicodemus finally in John 3:12, after Nicodemus asked him that second question. and what it is we are to enter into is what is written about this kingdom message that the first apostles preached about in Rm. 14:17. And that happens as a result of what Jesus told those guys as to when the kingdom would come written about in Lk. 17:21.
But of course, if you can take what I wrote, proving scripturally I am mistaken please do. Because so far nobody has been able to do so by showing those scriptures I gave you to mean something else other than the kingdom gospel that the first converts did preach about. That is why they called it what they did thruout the book of Acts especially. Which tells the story of how the church did begin after Jesus ascended. which is what I go by. Whether others do or not. And anything that does not line up with what is written in that Word, once one has studied and began to rightly divide from scripture to scripture regarding the same subject, needs to question it as far as I am concerned. whether it the ancient churches writing aside from the Word, or the writings of those today.
If you do not begin right in the Lord, neither will you be able to continue on ending right either.
Pr. 10:11-12 "The mouth of a righteous man is a well of life, but violence covereth the mouth of the wicked. Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.
|This message has been edited by AmConvinced on Feb 5, 2012 8:32 PM|