A question regarding God's omniscience:

2 Peter 3:9 states

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

It is said that God is omniscient, that is: he knows everything, and there is nothing that he does NOT know. Yet he waits patiently, hoping that more people will repent before He calls the Final Judgement.

Now the question: If God knows everything, doesn't he already know whether any given person will repent?

I'm going to propose that he does NOT know if a certain person will repent.

God has given us all the gift of Free Will, and we may repent or not as WE choose. If we truly have Free Will, then God can't know in advance whether or when we will repent; if he does know, then we don't really have Free Will.

I'm sure there must be some holes in that argument, since God's omniscience is an article of the faith. So, find the holes for me and tell me what they are.

In faith, Dave
Viva Texas
[email protected], [email protected]

Don't believe everything you think!!!

As for me I am going to go with whatever the Bible says. Which is as far as I know it doesn't say for sure. Unless you see that verse as telling you he does not know. Which could be.

But I am going to go with the answer that I don't know.

Because here is a scripture that might suggest he does know, written in Jer. 1:
5: BEFORE I FORMED THEE IN THE BELLY I KNEW THEE; AND BEFORE THOU CAMEST FORTH OUT OF THE WOMB, I SANCTIFIED THEE, AND I ORDAINED THEE A PROPHET UNTO THE NATIONS.

My seeing that as speaking of Jeremiah who was and is a prophet even to this day to the nations.

I started to say was a prophet, but the Lord stopped me by revealing to me Jeremiah still is a prophet to us still to this day.

which means many of the other OT prophets still are no doubt.

So honestly Dave I don't know. We can think what we want of course. but doesn't make it so either, unless it is made clear to us He does know.

This same issue was discussed on another forum about whether God knew what Adam and Eve was going to do what they ended up doing??? and there I also have to say I don't know the answer to that either.

IMO these issues that are not clear, such as the one you are speaking of and the one about Adam and Eve also, we probably will not know until we do meet him face to face finally, finding. But for now, we still see thru that dark glass yet, that Paul wrote about in 1Cor. 13:12, which is why we still are to walk in faith, hope and charity, and of course the greatest of these is charity of course.

So again, my answer is till, "I truly do not know".

Or it could be that he can know, but does not want to look to find out about everyone.

Same with the angels that rebelled against him following Lucifer also. Did he know they were going to do this also?

I would have to say about that one, I don't know the answer to that either. But I am confident that I will one day of course. Because I plan to press on until the end, whenever that might be for me. And at my age, you never know when that day will come. Of course, nobody does know. But the older you get the more you begin to think about it could be tomorrow after all.

But I don't know has to be my answer, unless someone comes up with a scripture that says one way or the other for certain.



Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"

"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

I found this info on another forum that just goes to show us how things can change drastically from one generation to the next. Wonder what else was changed over the years as well.

Love in Christ,
Sandy

Thanks for your response. I don't know either; that's why I'm hoping someone will give me some kind of hint.

First, the scripture you quoted from Jeremiah speaks to the existence of a baby within God's knowledge before the baby is conceived. It's used frequently by anti-abortionists to refute the idea that an unborn baby is just a lump of cells without any soul or humanity. It does support the idea that God's knowledge of a person extends before that person's conception, but does it say anything about God knowing 'everything' that person will do during his life? Jeremiah, for instance, had to agree to become a prophet; under free will, though, he had to have the freedom to refuse.

Next, there are a number of scriptures that imply God's omniscience, and others that imply that we CHOOSE our paths in life. But, if God already knows exactly what our choices will be, then logically those choices are determined before we even make them; therefore they aren't really choices, because that's what we were going to do all along, which goes against 'free will'. If it is a true CHOICE, then no one can know in advance what the choice will be because it could freely go either way.

If there isn't such a thing as free will, there would be no necessity for Paul, for example, to plead with Christians to repent their sins; the ones who are going to repent will, and those who aren't, won't. It's all fixed in God's prior knowledge.

But then, God not knowing goes against his omniscience.

And that's where I get hung up.

In faith, Dave
Viva Texas
[email protected], [email protected]

Christmas is year-round - If in your heart you have love for others, it's the birth of Christ. (Colombian proverb)

Well I tried to answer you with two different issues, that could mean He does know after all, or He doesn't.

Your choice as to how you see them only of course.



Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"

"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

I found this info on another forum that just goes to show us how things can change drastically from one generation to the next. Wonder what else was changed over the years as well.

Love in Christ,
Sandy