Hi all, I'm interested in getting a good voice recorder for my coachings. Ive looked through the messages and see the Edirol and Zoom are highly recommended, with an ocasional Olympus rec too. I have a hard time finding audio samples though online from these devices. Would anyone be brave enough to send me a short sample of them singing (or anyone singing!!) as recorded from their device? It would mean a lot to me. Thank you so much! You can email or post here, either way... my email is skiing_tenor@yahoo.com. Thank you for anyone willing to take the plunge. )
Though you have to be savvy enough to read the instructions and set it correctly. It's been a popular recorder since I started bringing it to classes but other people after months still don't have it on the correct settings. I can't find any way to send you something since all my recordings are around 130mb, too big. But I do recommend it.
I suggest the new Zoom H4-N. It's similiar to the edirol, but has a few more features that in my opinion make it a better choice. First, the pre-amp on the Zoom H4-N is better. This means less hiss and background noise in your recordings. Secondly, the interface is a little more intuitive. Thirdly, and this is a big one, the zoom h4-n is capable of recording 4 simultaneous tracks. You can use the stereo internal mics and when and if you desire, you can also plug in a set of external mics. I use a pair of large diameter external condensors on my wife and then set the actual zoom unit and it's internal mics in the back of the hall to pick up ambient sound. If you do this in a descent hall, you will get clear vocals and still pick up the reverb of the room, making a very natural sounding recording that is suitable for audition submission...all without doing any computer trickery.
When recording something suddenly LOUD will the recording levels automatically pull back or can you set the levels manually? Something I read about confused me on this issue.
And, how about the warmth of the sound in the voice? As in, the warmth of good ol’ analog tapes and what not? Does the fact that it’s purely digital seem apparent? I imagine being able to pick up the ambient room sound with the extra channels would help, but do you still get that nice “tube amp,” if you will, sound?
Thank you for your time.
I'm glad you asked this question. Over the past few years I've been tasked with learning as much as possible about this recording stuff...much of it after making big mistakes in hiring the wrong recording engineers to record my wife. This is what I've learned about getting the right sound:
First, different gear is meant to do different things, and do them to varying degrees. Secondly, the skills of the recording engineer (you if you are doing it yourself on a handheld recorder) play a HUGE role in getting the right sound.
The handheld recording market is really starting to get some good products. The zoom H4N is one of them. Now, to get to that "right sound" question. The zoom has a built in pair of stereo condensor microphones. Condensor microphones come in a range of diameters...the larger the diameter the more lush and chocolatey cakey the sound will be. Lots of people record with condensors or some combination of condensors and other types of microphones. For the large majority of folks, condensors work well....or well enough if you're using the recording for practice, etc. If you know what you're doing, some of the new handhelds can come pretty close to studio quality for some people.
If you've heard a recording, think of sopranos here, that gets a little unpleasant in the upper registers but you KNOW the singer didn't sound that way live, then the singer might have benefited from the use of ribbon microphones instead of condensors. Ribbons don't have the edginess that can occur when using condensor mics. The problem is, that ribbon mics are expensive!!! Lots of engineers will tell you that you don't need them if you konw what you're doing...this is because they don't have them. Find an engineer that knows classical music, knows voice, and has an assortment of microphones to use and is willing to use them to get the right sound.
The right sound engineer should be able to come pretty close to delivering a polished recording that requires VERY little manipulation in the recording studio. When i say very little manipulation, I mean that they should pretty much be limiting their work to mastering the recording so that all songs are playing at approximately the same level. If they have to do more, then either you didn't do your part in singing your music correctly, or the engineer didn't do their job.
I guess the point is that you can get a descent quality recording from the zoom particularly if you set it up correctly and choose the right external microphones, but if you want a really good recording, there is no substitute for a good recording engineer.
Luckily, after finding and using several TERRIBLE engineers, we found one that is phenomonal in the DC area. If you're interested, I'd be happy to share his info.
A ribbon microphone is a specific type of external microphone, totally unlike any of the built-in microphones you will find in a digital recorder.
You can buy them, of course, and you CAN plug in external mics to the H4 (thus presumably the H4 N) but you better have some bankroll on your side.....
I'm not sure how ribbon mics are powered, so not sure what extra gear would be needed to record them into an H4 (or any of the other current crop of handheld digital recorders)
I too have a voice that's hard to record, and I had excellent luck first with AT CMC8s (available through Sound professionals - not sure of current price, but mine were around $250 for a pair), and am EXTREMELY happy with the mics I have now, DPA 4060's (~$700 a pair). (Core-sounds "High end binaurals" are also based on DPA 4060 capsules, although Core Sounds tweaks them to go with their in-house preamplifier).
FWIW, I've also been extremely impressed by the abilities of the built-in mics of my Edirol R09 (original version). Very little distortion even in dynamic and range extremes. They don't come close to the DPA's, but little does (they're considered the best miniature microphones around, and I'd have to agree. Smaller than a pencil eraser, and the sound is ROCKIN'). I usually use the DPA's to capture live performances, but happily use the Edirol's built-in mics when I want to travel superlight, without any extras.
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"If you only look at what you left behind youll never be able to focus on what lies ahead." - Gusteau
No, you won't be able to get ribbon mics for the Zoom H4. Ribbon mics are high end microphones...they require a really high quality pre-amplifier to power them. Without the total package of mic, pre-amp, and recording device, you really wouldn't be doing any better for yourself by getting the ribbons. If you're going to try recording yourself on a handheld recorder such as the zoom...first try using the built in mics on their own...play with different setups...different distances from the singer, etc. Be sure to put it on a stand and raise it to a few feet above head level and start with about 6 ft of space between you and the mics. If you get this figured out, and want to add external mics to the mix, then I'd get a pair of descent medium to large diaphram condensors...check out the AKG blue-line series for a really good pair..you can find good quality mics on ebay for about 500 a pair. Large diaphram condensors will get you closer to the ribbon sound and take a lot of the edge off of the recording.
So that was a long way of saying no, don't even consider buying ribbon mics to plug into a handheld recorder...have you everseen a really crappy car with rims and tires that you know cost more than the car is worth? Similiar idea with ribbons in a handheld.
On the levels question...you can set it to auto adjust or you can manually adjust it. I like to do it manually. Just be sure to crank out a few high loud sections to see where you need to set the max level...then, knock it down a little further...you always sing louder in performance than when setting your levels.
On the digital vs analog question...the new digital recorders do have a little bit of a different sound than the old analogs, but it's not better or worse, its just different. When you hear engineers talk about color they're referring to the characteristics of their equipment impart on a recording. The key in classical music is to have the least amount of color and therefore get the truest representation of the actual performance. I believe that digital recording devices have the ability to impart less color on a recording.
Re: what about people with huge penetrating voices that cut through every mic?
October 16 2009, 2:05 PM
the best idea is to get an external microphone rather than depend on the built in micros that come with the recorder... those are usually of dismal quality and incapable of handling high SPLs.
Re: is anyone willing to be brave..... (voice recorder question)
October 16 2009, 11:50 PM
I have a Tascam DR07. It was very inexpensive and does a great job. I'll drop you an email with a recording from it, if I can grab it over my wireless network.
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