I have the IWM series of RAF DVDs and there is one showing a squad at (I think) Uxbridge at the start of the war or soon after (pretty certain it was filmed after the start). There are some in the squad wearing the high collar tunic, Im not sure one isnt the PTI too.
I'll have to watch it and see if there is anything else. Of course it might be stock footage and therefore impossible to confirm a year.
Slight correction there Hylton. The ADCC were not recognised by the Air Ministry but instead fell under the Air League of Great Britain. Their uniforms were private purchase (with coupons!) rather than issue, for both cadets and officers, and they followed a similar pattern to the RAF but were not the same. The ADCC officers had a service dress style tunic but with the addition of an open cuff fastened by three buttons each side. The cadets had a high collar tunic bearing two breast pockets with square flap and a belt with slider adjustment and two piece round belt buckle (all with chromed ADCC buttons)
When the ADCC became the ATC they fell under the Air Ministry and from then had uniform issued. The RAF high collar tunic had two breast pockets with single point flap, whereas the ATC cadet tunic had a three point flap, with the tunics made especially for the corps (especially for size reasons) rather than them being ex RAF stock.
But yes, the ATC wore the high collar until the early 50s when the change to battle dress started.
That will teach me to try to add a quick / short response, as they say more haste less speed. My single sentence was meant only to point out that the ADDC and ATC wore high collar tunics well after the RAF had given them up. Alex, youre absolutely correct about the patterns; hope I did not cause too much confusion
No probs Hylton, I just wish I could find an ADCC cadet tunic! I almost thought of adding an ADCC belt to an ATC one but the pocket flaps got me! The ADCC version also had shoulder straps (to which the Squadron number was affixed in chrome numbers) which the ATC and RAF tunic didnt.
Ric, (out of interest) why the question? Is it another impression youre planning?
In Osprey book by Cormack on RAF uniforms, there is a photo of such a tunic being worn by a Polish armorer working on the tail guns of a Wellington. So this has to be post September 1939. Do you need a scan?
Neil - I deliberately did not refer to it as the 1919 pattern tunic as that too can be misinterpreted as there were 2 different tunics introduced in 1919. I have one of these high-collar tunics myself which I have worn at Hendon in the past.
Chris - I have the book but thanks for the offer. It is a Whitley, and the other notable feature of the photo is the faux cuffs on the WO's tunic.
I have seen the high-collar tunics in use in the Battle of France, but would like to establish if their use was continued - albeit for a short time - upon return to the UK. My inclination is to think that units were re-equipped. I do know that tunics were pretty much worn into the ground before they were replaced! Alex, you are correct in that the enquiry is for a portrayal
There were stocks of the high collar tunic in various stores after they had been declared obsolete by the R.A.F., and these were issued to Polish other ranks when they began to arrive in the UK in large numbers after the fall of France (After Poland fell France is where they began to regroup, before that too fell), as there were enough to form exclusively Polish units.
Along with the old high collar tunics, both Polish ORs and NCO's were also issued with the other ranks peaked cap from stock, items that were also not on general issue at the time (except for a few extreme circumstances like the RAF Police). As the Air Staff would not recognise the Poles as independent forces, they were classed as Polish Air Force within the RAF, with the first four squadrons (300, 301, 302 & 303) being formed in 1940. (A seperate 'Polish Peoples Air Force was formed in the USSR in 1943).
These uniforms were initially worn with RAF buttons and badges and POLAND titles. Later they began to use Polish badges, buttons and ranks, and the high collar tunic and peaked cap was replaced by the standard RAF open collar service dress and side cap, certainly by early 1944 when an agreement was reached whereby the Poles came under seperate Polish command.
The dad of one of my mates from high school escaped Poland down through the Balkans where he joined up with British Forces in Egypt. He eventually went on to fly Mossies and stayed in the RAF until about 1956 flying transports around Africa....