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Officer cap

August 21 2011 at 11:19 AM

Nicolas  (Login Nicolas75)
Forum Member
from IP address 88.178.115.3

Hello to all

What's your opinion on this cap ?

Looks like good to me although it seems the upper rim is not large as the other ww2 ones i know ..

Thanks

rcafuniformcapdress.jpg

 
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Neil Bonnick
(Login bonnickeng)
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130.76.32.217

Looks right to me

August 23 2011, 3:12 PM 

Nicolas. Cap styles differed slightly depending on the tailor or even a particular model cap by a particular tailor. Gieves is one of highest quality tailors. They are still in business and are now known as "Gieves and Hawkes" in London.
This cap looks wartime or possibly just post war.
Does anyone in the forum know if the Gieves "Parade" model was wartime?
Neil

 
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Chris K
(Premier Login AOC553)
Forum Owner
67.253.37.151

Gieves labels

August 23 2011, 5:50 PM 

In addition to checking on the intro date of the Parade model, Gieves is also great in that their labels reflect the monarch on the throne. I don't recall the exact wording but in the upper left it references "by appointment to HM the King" or "HM the Queen". This will get you to pre/post 1952.


 
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(Login Nicolas75)
Forum Member
88.178.115.3

Re: Gieves labels

August 24 2011, 4:23 AM 

Thanks for your answers

- On the label, it's written "by appointment to HM the Queen Makers delivery hats" & "by appointment to HRH The duke of Edinburgh haval tailors & outfitters". Looks like we have here a 40's or 50's one

- I will contact Gieves and Hawk, maybe they know when the parade model was issued & such mentions were done ?

Thanks

 
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Nicolas
(Login Nicolas75)
Forum Member
88.178.115.3

Re: Gieves labels

August 24 2011, 6:01 AM 

Gieves & Hawke just have answer (so quick)

"I would suggest that the RAF Officers Parade Hat you have acquired is from the early 1950's by the Gieves warranted label when Gieves were an independent company based in 27 Old Bond Street.

The Parade/cushioned model was introduced by Gieves after the end of WWII to offer RAF Officers a superior comfortable full dress cap."

Thanks

 
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Chris Kanca
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Forum Owner
67.253.37.151

Good example

August 25 2011, 7:30 AM 

This is a good example of a postwar cap (probably) being passed as a WW2 example. Considering the label clearly indicates it was made after 1953, one can theorize why the KC cap badge is present.

To be fair, I'm not sure what the policy is/was regarding wear-out dates for KC badging. It would seem odd that a post-1952 cap would be sold with the old style cap badge??

In any event, a nice cap but newer than 1952

 
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Ric
(Login __richard__)
553 Sqdn
82.110.109.212

Wearing out KC

August 25 2011, 11:09 AM 

There probably was a policy, and most likely enforced by SWOs and the like on an as-spotted basis.

To be honest I've been wearing a KC badge on my cap for nearly a year and no-one has ever commented on it...

 
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Toine
(Login ToineS)
553 Sqdn
178.84.148.39

Cheeky bugger...

August 26 2011, 4:56 AM 

Never been before the Queen, have you? wink.gif

Cheers, Toine

 
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theotherChris
(Login theotherChris)
Forum Member
12.52.247.242

salutes

October 1 2011, 11:06 AM 

Ric, you must also be the type that tries to get away saluting with your left hand as the G/C walks past.... Kudos to you!

 
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theotherChris
(Login theotherChris)
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12.52.247.242

wear out dates

October 1 2011, 11:03 AM 

A mate of mine whore his dad's KC army hat emblem during his entire 22 years in the Australian Army from the late sixties into the eighties. Nobody ever noticed or cared.....

 
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Tony
(Login LV907)
Forum Member
86.133.67.220

Not a Hat but a Uniform

August 26 2011, 12:16 PM 


I have a 1951 dated No.1 dress uniform from a Group Captain, the officer retired in 1966 but it still has his Kings Crown pattern Wings.

The button are brass Queens Crown and is complete with its aray of medal ribbons including the Dutch Airforce Cross.

He is now 92 and we still meet up every couple of months for a beer, his brother was also a Group Captain and only died last year.

So maybe the K/C badge was not immediately replaced when QEII became Queen.

The wartime officers hats I have had all had a green leather under-peak, not fabric like the example you are showing, but this may have changed later on in the war.

Cheers

 
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Chris K
(Premier Login AOC553)
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67.253.37.151

WIngs

August 26 2011, 7:35 PM 

Tony,
I think the wings could remain the same as what you were issued/qualified with -- i.e. perfectly acceptable to be wearing KC wings in the 1960s/70s or RFC wings into WW2/50s.

As in your example, the buttons likely had to be QC by some date but the KC wings could be worn indefinitely as they were what this GC qualified with.

 
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Glenn T.
(Login AirMarshall)
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65.2.148.211

Chris......

August 27 2011, 1:40 PM 

So does that somewhat open a new can of worms regarding, lets say, a perfect RAF Visor being sold as 'wartime' when it is basically someones secondary uniform cap from 1965?......Hmmmm.

Hope all is well,
Glenn T.

 
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Chris K
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Forum Owner
67.253.37.151

Possibly

August 27 2011, 4:23 PM 

I think the actual uniform regs would have mandated QC buttons and cap badges by some specific date -- presumably prior to 1965 (to use your example). Certainly one could expect to see some crossover of KC and QC badging in the mid-1950s but I doubt that you'd likely being seeing RAF uniforms with KC buttons and cap badges still in use in 1965+. This is just my personal opinion.

My biggest issue with the cap at the start of this thread is the combination of post-1952 cap with pre-1952 cap badge. WW2-cap/badge soldiering on in the early 1950s? Sure. Brand new Gieves "Parade" cap, circa sometime after 1952 (label references the Queen) with a KC badge affixed from the maker? I'd think unlikely. Typically new caps come with the cap badge already on.


 
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