A friend of mine knows I post to a primarily American message board and keeps pestering me to ask you guys some questions. I got this person to put the questions in writing and I present them here. What are your thoughts?
Do you believe that Obama would set up a "death panel" like we hear on tv?
Do you think giving 50 million uninsured Americans access to healthcare insurance a step towards communism?
If you had a bad job with no healthcare and you broke your leg who would pay to have it fixed?
How about if it's more simple like a flu or bad cold? Are you allowed to see a doctor and would it cost you money?
If you broke your leg on the job, your employer (or their workers comp carrier) pays for it. If you broke it outside of work, either you would pay for it, or the state (meaning, the rest of us) pay for it. The later applies if you are indigent (poor). This is why if you go to an emergency room even with insurance, you usually have to sit around (with your broken leg) for 4 hours with a lot of illegal immigrants with colds. The ER has to take them, but a private doctor won't.
If you break your leg and you make barely enough to scrape by, you usually end up setting up some kind of payment plan. Not surprisingly, medical expenses are the number one cause of consumer bankruptcy in the US. And that is likely what would happen - you get hit by a car and have 30k in medical bills, you file BK.
For the very first time in my adult life (the last year), I have been without health care coverage. For.A.Year. Scary? Hella yeah! But being very healthy (knock on wood) I actually saved myself quite a bit of money not paying insurance premiums that are not covered by an employer.
I know this by looking at the premium portion not covered by my previous employer had I remained at the time of my lay off. The previous employer pays even less of the employees premium now (I know this because I am still close with many people left there), and I didn't even factor that into the equation.
But, yeah, if I get super sick or develop something that could have been caught early but wasn't because I am not having checkups and such, I am screwed. It's a gamble.
Let me see if I have this whole "death panel" thing right.
Under Obama's hypothetical communist death-eater socialism plan - if grandma gets sick... our GOVERNMENT gets to sit in a board room and decide whether or not they will spend the money to pay to keep her on life support for 3 years while little Billy comes and visits her lifeless body every Thursday to tell her the score of his latest soccer game. Right?
Where as - under the CURRENT system, which Sarah Palin's Army of Ignorance are so hellbent on keeping... if grandma gets sick, our profit driven INSURANCE COMPANIES get to sit in a board room and decide whether or not they will spend the money...
Am I missing something - or is Sarah Palin only pissed because it will be the government deciding when to pull the plug on grandma, rather than Humana?
I must say - if she picketed with this sign - I still wouldn't agree - but I would respect her a LOT more.
Nothing like gunfire and screaming blood thirsty indians to wake you up in the morning! - Barkenstein
This message has been edited by Syrgot on Aug 14, 2009 12:19 AM
I'm actually surprised by the amount of hatred some people have for a plan that doesn't even exist yet. Last I heard, there were four versions and Obama hasn't picked one yet.
I never paid a whole lot of attention to politics before and now I remember why.
Democrats and Republicans act like they are polar opposites. They are not. But instead of working together to do some good for the country, all they can do is fight like fucking 3 year olds.
These people at the town hall meetings need to be kicked in the face. These supposed adults are just screaming at the top of their lungs so that no discussion can even take place. It's about as mature as sticking fingers in your ears and going "LALALALALALALALALALA I Can't hear you! LALALALALA"
I know we are a nation of mostly uneducated morons but do they really have to prove it on camera?
Yes
If I was on that plan I would die before I could see a doctor.
No. I would give up some of my income to help others.
If I broke my leg while not working I have no choice but to pay for it.
If I broke my Leg I would go to work and make it seem like work broke my leg. I'm a dick.
I'm insured and any doctor visit cost me money.
Sarah Palin is a fucking idiot. (But, damn, if I don't still find her hot...) I never really minded John McCain, and though by the end of the campaign he never would have gotten my vote, in the beginning I tried to keep an open mind. Not only was Sarah Palin a poor choice for VP, but it may be near unforgivable that he has unleashed her upon the national scene - seemingly forever.
Pretty much everything Ginny said is right on.
Currently all Americans have access to emergency care at our local hospitals which is why (for the most part) America doesn't have bodies in the streets. But preventative care is not available for everyone. In the case of getting the flu, an uninsured person is essentially SOL, unless they go to the emergency room.
Another thing to remember is between Medicare and Medicaid, millions of Americans are already covered by government programs.
Sadly, I really do think that these people absolutely freaking out is about something more than just healthcare...
Most people without health insurance or with sub-par insurance who go to the emergency room do end up being charged for it. The bill is not shifted onto the public. The only way they would not be billed for it is if they were able to be treated using a false or no id.
As discussed in the other Healthcare link from a couple of days ago- the coverage of elderly people on Medicare is pretty bad too. My step mom is a case in point. She is invalid status (stroke, paralyzed with no memory) and is about ready to get kicked out into the streets in about two weeks for a government "reset" period of 60 days until she can go back into a nursing home. My opinion is that the "death panels" are pretty much in place- and it's called "government bureaucracy".
Arwen- My step mom is in a nursing home due to a massive stroke she had in June. Medicare is paying for her stay. She went in 85 days ago- and she has to show improvement in order to keep qualifying for the benefits. Every day she goes in for physical therapy. They measure her progress every day. If her social worker see's that she in NOT making improvement, they will cancel her Medicare medicare benefits immediately.
When her 100 days are up- there is a 60 day reset period- regardless of her condition- she will be released into the care of my father, while her application is pending. Then she can go back into the nursing home and the benefits will continue for another 100 days. It's all about controlling costs.
She is 92 years old, the stroke blew her short term memory. Her left leg is paralyzed and she is blind in one eye and scared to death. My dad is totally deaf. He is going to spend about half of what is left of his life savings for in home care out of pocket until the reset period is up.
That is my argument about nationalized health care. They need to work out the details- cause there are huge holes in the existing system they have now.
Monthly insurance premiums taken out of my husbands salary = approx $500 (this never goes away).
Deductible we paid out of pocket before 80%/20% insurance kicked in... = $600
Once 80%/20% kicked in, (we'd pay 20% of whatever procedure, test)= UNTIL we reached $5,000 (TOTAL yearly out of pocket)
Once $5,000 above was met, everything (except doctor visit co-pays of $40 per) was paid at 100%.
Due to the high cost of cancer, we'd met our yearly required out of pocket by EARLY APRIL (diagnosed end of January).
So...from April to Dec, insurance paid 100%. (except prescriptions, doctor visit co-pays)
In summary...
2008 = About $10,000 total out of pocket expenses to us for treatment and all that entails.
Insurance Co paid = About $200,000.
.
But to see a firefly means it reminds me something I lost in the past time or imagine some hope in the future,so shimmery bug light is adequate for me.
--- Makoto
Your insurance will pay a percentage, and you have to pay the rest. If the Doctor charges $100 for an office visit I have to pay 20%, and they cover the rest.
Same for prescriptions, but the co-pay is about $10
Yeah my co-pay is a set amount. $10. Actually, I really like the insurance I have now, it's a PPO but it's not that expensive. And I am lucky in that I don't have to pay any premiums. Most places take a chunk out of your check.
Emokid is throwing slomo dove at my face, I guess that means he flipped me the bird
For instance, a visit to my primary care physician (regular doctor for whatever sickness), is $20.00 per visit.
For a "specialist" (Oncologist, etc), the payment per visit is $40.00.
These payments don't count toward your your yearly deductible, OR your yearly max out of pocket.
Make sense?
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But to see a firefly means it reminds me something I lost in the past time or imagine some hope in the future,so shimmery bug light is adequate for me.
--- Makoto
Yes, and for prescriptions, a co-pay is required...usually $10-15 EXCEPT when the drugs hella-expensive, then the co-pay can be much higher.
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But to see a firefly means it reminds me something I lost in the past time or imagine some hope in the future,so shimmery bug light is adequate for me.
--- Makoto
The only time I have had to pay for a dr's visit is when I forgot my Health Card at home. The visit cost me $40 and they gave me a form so I could apply to be re-imbursed.
but in canada if you have money and go to a nursing home, the government will take the money. once it runs out, you stay is free. if you have lots of money, you can go to a really good home. once the money runs out, you go to a province run home.
Arwen, tell your friend that my mom's mother gave her kids anything they'd have gotten in her will (meaning money from selling her house, etc.) before she moved into a nursing home, so she didn't end up giving it to the gov't. I have no clue how legal it was but it was the nursing home director who suggested that she do it.
I think it depends on the province, whether the province-run homes are "really good" or not. Here they're all pretty much equal. The only difference that I can tell (When I worked at the library it was my job to bring books around to all the nursing homes and hang out with the oldsters. That and I have friends whose parents are in different homes around here and I get to listen to their comparisons) between province-run and private homes is that the nurses wear fancier clothes in the private homes, whereas they just wear scrubs at the province-run places.
Of course I could be totally wrong, this is just anecdotal.
Louise, that sounds like that was really good advice.
I work with some former nurses that are now compliance advisors for long term care homes - they basically make sure that the homes are keeping up with the standards that the province sets. I kept meaning to ask them their opinion on private vs public homes. I may do that next week.
I'm concerned about the Healthcare reform plans currently getting kicked around by the federal government.
I don't believe anything that comes out of Sarah Palin's mouth. NOTHING. She not smart enough to even weigh in on the debate. (and since when is any former, 2 year, governor of Alaska worth listening to on national issues?)
The death council's are an obvious lie.
Obama has been really pushing for an end to pre-existing condition exclusions by insurance companies. Which I understand is simply devastating for people who are sick and lost their health insurance and have become uninsurable.
The flip side of that coin though is that is insurance companies can no longer exclude a person for having a pre-existing condition, then NO ONE WILL EVER PAY A PREMIUM UNTIL THEY GET SICK.
Wouldn't you love if you only had to buy car insurance once you had an accident, and then they were forced to pay?
And then when everybody is running around with no insurance, people won't go to the doctor to get the regular checkups and stuff because it's not worth buying insurance just to get a physical.
That's just one problem with the concept.
As for a government-run health plan. I'm VERY skeptical. Sure, Congress has a terrific government run plan. But that's a plan for a very small number of people. If we looked at the overhead per person, I'm 100% sure we'd see a plan that is NOT economically scalable to cover millions of people.
Looking at the governments VA medical system is a better model. It's slow, cumbersome, and often a last resort for veterans who have no other choice.
I think a big part of healthcare reform simply needs to be focused on smart legislation that closes loopholes and reduces infunded mandates on hospitals.
- Eliminate collusion between insurance carriers. (they're all in on it together and there is virtually no competition) Insurance carriers need stronger regulation.
- Require clinics and outpatient services that are traditionally offered in hospitals to operate under the umbrella of a local full-service hospital. The reason being that outpatient services like radiology and outpt surgery are being offered by entities that are not affiliated with hospitals taking the best profit centers away from hospitals.
- Require valid government issued ID from any patient (or patient's guardian) who is not critical to be seen in the ER. Ginny talked about the illegals cramming the ER's because they have a cold. They do this because they will walk in with no ID and give a false name and address. The bill gets mailed to that address and no one ever pays. It's THEFT OF SERVICE and there's a simple solution. If you can walk in, you can bring your friggin ID with you, and you can provide a fingerprint.
- Put reasonable caps on malpractice liability and regulate the cost of malpractice insurance.
- Streamline and standardize FDA approval processes so that costs of approvals are no longer absurd. This also means that the liability needs to be capped as well. Baycol is a good example of a drug that got approved and was discovered to cause problems later. The fact is, it should not be a jackpot for everyone that took the drug.
I don't have a great solution for pre-existing conditions, or for medicare and medicaide. I just don't know enough about those things. But I feel like the "overhaul" is going to miss the mark more than it will hit. I also feel glad that people are trying to help. Obama's plan may not be exactly like my ideas, but he's trying and he's got smart people working for him that are trying. I do believe that they have the best intentions and I hope that whatever we get is an improvement. But I'm not holding my breath either. Sadly the actual details are being lost in the rhetoric of politics.
Hi $8,
One thing that is being kicked around is to require everyone to have insurance. The penalty for not paying for insurance would be more expensive than the insurance plan itself. Of course, this would not apply if you are too poor to pay for it but everyone else will have no choice. I guess that is their answer to your concern about getting insurance after the fact.
That bothers me. I suppose it is no different than taxes but I still don't like it.
Yes, I've always had insurance and I'm paying for a portion of my coverage now, about $150 a month. I choose to pay that though. Currently, I could opt out of the insurance and put that $150 in my pocket.
I don't know why it chaps my ass since I would never go without insurance anyway but something about being told what I HAVE to do with my money doesn't sit right.
My dad was diagnosed with Alzheimer's.
The family kept him out of a home as long as could.
Eventually he went to a home.
Every day that he was there a doctor tested him for dementia.
Do I need to say more about how fucked up this or any government program will be.
![[linked image]](http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd41/maximumbandit/Palin.jpg)
![[linked image]](http://a.abcnews.com/images/Politics/ap_nh_health_090813_mn.jpg)
Sorry. That's SUCKS.
