Hello I am another convertee to veganism. Any vegans out there that can share some easy receipes? Also can someone reccomend a soy yogurt? I eat yogurt as a regular part of my daily routine, so I really do need a substitute for the dairy kind. I tried a vegan chocolate cake yesterday that my friend made using egg replacements, and it was pretty good.
Thanks for all the book reccomendations and the vinegar suggestion. I just don't like eating animal products or products that come from animals. I have been lacto vegetarian for a long time and now it is just about not eating dairy anymore. I am not looking to convert anyone to my way of thinking, but if I don't need to eat meat for survival then why should I. The mom and pop farms are a thing of the past and I am disgusted by "factory farming".
Once a month I join some friends for a potluck and wine tasting. Two are vegans and one is soy and gluten-free. I didn't eat meat and seldom ate poultry for many years, so I know what it's like to get stuck nibbling on the garnishes. That's why I decided to challenge myself to bring something tasty each month that everybody could enjoy. It has been seven months of interesting salads and made me realize that I could go vegan if I really wanted to. There's just too much tasty cheese and seafood to ever consider it. Potato salad with peanut sauce was probably the most popular recipe that I came up with for the group. It's especially nice for potlucks because you don't have the same food-safety concerns as traditional recipes with mayo and eggs.
Try looking for recipes with quinoa in them. It is one of the few plant-based foods that have a complete protein, plus it's delicious and has a nice crunchy texture and soaks up dressings nicely. I use it to make tabbouleh-type recipes
I don't think I could go vegan. I could maybe do "veggie + fish" ... but I'd be grumpy.
And the one good thing about my boy moving me out to the sticks has been this real mom & pop farm we found. They're the real deal. Free range everything - cows, pigs, chickens and eggs. I practically run over the egg chickens when I pull in, the roosters are always showing off, and the cows are always hanging out in the big pond. They also have a 3-legged dog. Well, not totally 3-legged, but she has a bum paw from "having a disagreement with one of the hogs."
The taste/texture is unbelievable, and the people are soooo sweet. It's a little less than twice as expensive as the grocery store, but the lack of guilt is priceless. And the boy's kid will not eat anything green, so I feel better feeding her quality meats if that's all she'll eat.
Why did I go back? I think it had something to do with out of sight out of mind. The dramatic feelings that I had watching Food, Inc. faded. Also, I was lured by the smell of meat grilling at one of my favorite establishments on a day that I was ravenous. I still pay attention to what I am eating though.
I do not eat ground meat AT ALL and I try to avoid chicken unless it's breasts are proportional to its legs.
Yeah Lea, I'm with you. A large breast doesn't really appeal to me, as long as the chick's proportional and takes care of herself.
I try to maintain an attitude similar to Ginny, to each his own and all that. As such, I was surprised that I got upset to learn that honey isn't "vegan". Seriously? What's the justification there? I mean, something's got to pollinate all those vegetables. It seems like beekeepers and vegans would have a mutually beneficial relationship.
This message has been edited by Funkenstien on Aug 8, 2011 6:35 PM
Wow. It really just blows my mind that people could think that way. Humans are violating the innate bee-hood of a colony by taking their honey? It's bee-cruelty? After we give them all that tasty agricultural pollen and cozy homes? Unbee-lievable.
I think if I had to choose between being Amish and Vegan, I would choose to be Amish.
I think Im at a happy medium of being aware of where my food comes from and making intelligent decisions about what I put in my body, now. I needed to go there to get here. I thought I wanted that hamburger but then I found out how it got into that paper wrapper and I changed my mind. I thought that all strawberries were healthy and then I learned what it took to get them big and red and so I thought again. Im not preachy but I do care what you eat because I care about people in general. My only suggestion on this board is that you learn how food is processed so that you can make intelligent decisions and ultimately healthy choices about what you and your family are eating.
I was vegan, as most everyone knows for about seven years.
I was a crappy vegan, eating a lot of bread and pasta. I was creeping back up weight wise.
Anyway- I still can't eat cow. Mostly because of the way cow is processed. Unless its grass fed I can't eat it. Hamburger is the worst. Its sick, diseased dairy cows, spent from years of milk production where they are fed hormones and antibiotics until they are completely wasted, then "combined" into hamburger. That means that the hamburger you are eating can be hundreds of cows mixed together. When I see it, it honestly makes me retch.
Pork, Lamb, Eggs, Chicken and fish- no problem. Only eat one meat portion a day- mostly farm raised organic if at all possible.
Does milking a cow really 'hurt' it? I was under the impression that a cow was unhappy when it wasn't milked.
Not that I agree that domesticating animals according to humane practices is wrong anyway - but I didn't know that tidbit if it is true.
If we ate grass, no cow on Earth would hesitate to eat it all at our expense in it's effort to survive. I have never been convinced that being carnivorous is wrong, given a majority(?) of the animals on Earth are naturally so. I'm guessing majority because most bugs are carnivorous.
You are confusing two issues here Squid. Cruelty to animals is inherent in the diary and meat industry. The reason is the end product. In the diary industry it is to maximize the volume of milk. In meat industry, it is to maximize the volume of harvestable meat. Cows are designed to eat grain. They are designed to eat grass, which doesn't fatten them up as quickly. When they eat grain, the get sick and basically start to shit themselves to death. Bacterial infections run rampant. These animals are sick by design. That's what you are eating is a purposely I'll animal.
It's not a matter of competting for a resource like grass- we live on a grass planet. It's the mechanism of the industry that's in practice here.
I'm not confusing anything, I'm talking about something completely different than you are.
I asked if milking a cow hurt it.
Then I said that all things want to survive, and a cow (and pretty much every other creature on Earth) would choose its own survival over that of any other creature it has not spawned itself. For this reason I do not have the underlying sympathy with living creatures where I'd say, "I'll eat nothing with a face or products from them." They'd eat me in a second most of them to survive, or they'd take my other resources without hesitation if we shared the same needs. I clearly said, "IF WE ATE GRASS as a hypothetical scenario in which we competed with cows... I do realize that we do not actually compete with cows. I know that Veggies and Vegans would say we're supposed to be higher evolved creatures with the ability to make good choices, but I'd pretty much respond that nearly all of human history and my daily interactions with people contravene that fairly handily.
You're having a completely separate conversation about today's "Jungle" which we've had many times, and I agree with you. I've read the same books you have, and this ground is well traveled. My question remains, not "What do cows naturally eat, and how have we perverted the production of milk and beef?" but, "Does milking a cow hurt it?"
I have helped out at a goat farm for a couple of springs now and I have been in the room when the momma goats are milked by machine and by hand and I can tell you that milking a goat doesn't hurt it and indeed helps relieve the weight and stress of a full udder. 100%.
It does. I grew up on a farm. Cows RUN to you to be milked. And our cows ate grain feed and sorghum hay. I never saw one shit itself to death.
A lot of this is propaganda. I'm not stupid - I know there is abuse in factory farms, however, even the guy that wrote that Food, Inc. book (or whichever one was all over TV for a while there) said there are no absolutes in this equation. Saying ALL of it is diseased is overstating, a bit.
I've heard similar tales lately related to the paleo diet - that if you eat grains you've got feces in your bloodstream and are basically killing yourself. With grain. Ok. Everybody's got a platform I guess.
Squid, yes- when a cow is relieved of milk, it feel good. BUT, you are missing a HUGE point in thinking that there is anything even remotely "natural" in the state of the dairy industry.
There are no accurate studies in the USA about dairy cow mortality. The reasons are if you knew what hell these animals went through, and the fact that they have a 50% higher mortality rate than feedlot cows, yet are still sold (94%) to slaughter houses for your McShitburger- you would NEVER drink milk or hamburger AGAIN.
From a 2007 study: Euthanasia (of dairy cattle) due to lameness or injury (20.0%); mastitis (16.5%); calving problems (15.2%); respiratory problems (11.3%); scours, diarrhea, or other digestive problems (10.4%); lack of coordination or severe depression (1.0%); poison (0.4%); other known reasons (10.2%); and unknown reasons (15.0%).
The fact is that in most dairy farms, their calves are taken away at birth, and then they're filled with hormones to keep them lactating long after they would naturally stop. This causes tons of problems, one of which is mastitis. Any woman here who has breastfed and had mastitis knows that it is one of the most physically painful experiences. Now imagine having a machine clamped on to your infected, swollen boob. Yes getting rid of the milk is probably a relief but does milking hurt? I would imagine that in the case of cows with chronic mastitis (which according to this study can be up to 40%:http://animsci.agrenv.mcgill.ca/courses/450/topics/13.pdf) that the answer is definitely yes.
Ran those numbers, it's 100%. Didn't realize all dairy cows are executed; I have some dairy-farming friends who would be real confused as most of theirs die of old age - wait, is that a "known reason"? In thatcase, your quoted study says "All cows die" which is really a rather pointless waste of a study, don't you think?
If God didn't want us to eat animals, then why did he make them delicious?
Actually, it's been a while since someone forced me to read the bible, but isn't there a part in the beginning about God creating the animals for us to eat? I think it's right next to the part about him creating women to serve men, but that's for a different thread I suppose.
So, according to the bible, vegans are flouting the will of God.
Again, not missing anything. You seem to want to enlighten me about something, and I'm sorry I can't say, "Wow, I didn't know that!" to make you feel better.
I have not denied or expressed a lack of information on any of the extraneous points you make, just that they don't have anything to do with whether or not ruminants experience physical pain during the process of milking.
That was my very narrow question, and I got my answer. I cared about that, and that alone when I asked it. I am truly sorry that fact perturbs you.
I don't know if the actual act of milking a cow hurts it. I'm thinking not. Dairy farmers have had over a hundred years to perfect the milking machine in order to make it as easy and profitable as possible. If it hurt or damaged the cows, they would put up a fight or require treatment. I do know that cows have been selectively bred to produce as much milk as possible. They weren't really designed to drag around huge, swollen udders, just enough to feed one or two calves and in more frequent intervals than twice a day. Just like poultry and tomatoes, there is a trade-off between quantity and quality. One of the reasons that European butter and cheese is so good is that the cows are selected for tasty milk, not voluminous output. Buying organic doesn't ensure that the cows have better milk or better lives. I choose to buy conventional dairy products that are produced locally, where I know the farmers and see the cows grazing in the pasture. A lot of the organic milk is produced in large feed lots where the cows are fed organic grain and never get their hooves dirty out in a field, especially the milk sold by giant retailers.
I am under the impression that the milking machines actually do harm the cows, that the constant milking causes cracking in the skin, which introduces bacteria, and is one of the reasons for the need for antibiotics.
I'm sure hand milking would be less of an issue.
But again, you're causing the cow's body to be in an untatual state - producing milk all the time, as opposed to just when it calves.
Oddly enough, we have some "meat is murder" people out on the street today, 2 of them taking a shower. Or maybe it was meat's not green. Something or other. Anyway, I just thought there were naked people out there. I peeked. They aren't.
To spice up this thread a little, I want to ask you guys something. If you were planning to date a woman who clearly stated that she was a Vegan, and you were not - would that lead to a rocky relationship or would the two find some way to make it work?
I was at a bachelorette party once and, as all wild bachelorettes do, we were playing "truth or dare". The bride to be chose "truth". Someone asked her "spit or swallow". She got this totally repulsed look on her face, and said in a scathing voice, "How could you even ask me that? I'm a vegetarian. That's ANIMAL PROTEIN."