After reading the indictment of his assistant coach. It's obvious to me that the legend of college football chose to cover up the actions of a pedophile for his own gain. He should be in jail with his assistant.
Anyone who would do such a thing is no better than the sick bastard they protect. Joe needs to go.
How did Joe cover it up when he was the one who voiced his concern to the proper authorities? It was the people of higher power that covered it up including the police. What could Paterno possibly do if the law wont do anything?
Joe Paterno did not report anything to law enforcement officials. He told his boss, and when his boss did nothing, neither did he.
No one at Penn State told any law enforcement official that a heinous crime had been witnessed.
No one at Penn State made any effort to identify the boy involved, let alone investigate how he was doing.
So while the police determined that Joe Paterno had met his legal obligations to inform his bosses about what he knew, he failed on a moral obligation to ensure something was done about it when no one else was doing anything. In this way, he is complicit in the cover up, if not criminally complicit under law.
Just step back. If someone came to you and said your second-in-command was seen sodomizing a 10 year old boy whose hands were against a shower wall, can you imagine being satisfied with anything less than the picture Citizen posted above as quickly as fucking possible? And why didn't they? For some fidelity to the an image they've cultivated by playing a game?
Not to mention the shower incident with the young boy wasn't the only one witnessed by someone. The pedophile was caught doing other things with other kids for years. This was a total cover-up and those who were involved should all pay some time of price for the 8+ victims they know about. And you can bet there were a lot more than 8.
How did the graduate assistant who saw this happening not hit that sicko in the face while his pants were down and grab that poor child's hand and get him some help????? Oh, that's right.....that guy is now part of the almighty coaching staff, too!
To shrug your shoulders and say 'Eh....I told my boss.' doesn't cut it.
From what I heard the intern was totally distressed over the whole thing but I agree with you, Kath. It wasn't good enough!! He didn't stop it, he didn't call police, he called his dad. A child was being assaulted. I just don't get it.
How afraid are we of people in authority? I know there have been situations when I kept my mouth shut because I didn't want the engraged psycho to turn their attentions on me but I'd like to think if I saw a kid in trouble I'd step in right then and there.
Wow. That's such a slap in the face for the men and women who really commit themselves in the athletic programs to not only support the athlete to achieve his or her utmost but to also teach and model character as well as stress the importance of education.
It isn't a secret that my FIL was a coach for many years at UNL (as well as other places). He as well as Tom Osborne and some others I have known for many, many years are inspiring and amazing people.
It's like saying that teachers who sleep with their students are the embodiment of their profession.
They're talking about the machinery, not the players. Big time college football and basketball are essentially professional sports. And they have been for a long time. Players and coaches who are successful, tend to get passes, or at least slaps on the wrist for egregious moral violations that you and I would wind up in prison for.
That's not to say that most players and coaches aren't hard-working, upstanding citizens. They probably are. But winning is everything. And Paterno was the winning-est coach in college football history. It's hard to go up against a guy like that, who protects his pervert friends. And the system protects guys like Paterno. Just look at the outpouring of support the guy is getting from fans of the program. Football is more important to those people than the lives that Sandusky destroyed, apparently. It's pretty disgusting.
While that's great there are a lot of people who are truly good folks coaching sports, I don't think it's a slap in the face to say that the powers that be are notorious for looking the other way when faced with a bad one, in light of a winning season that's generating income for them. Great people don't need that level of supervision or oversight, but assuming they are saints because they know how to win games is absurd. I'm sure the level of sumbags coaching at the college level is probably less than the general population, but that doesn't mean there aren't any, and they shouldn't be disciplined or exposed if they do wrong, even if they know how to win games.
I'm not disagreeing, Hep. Anytime money is thrown into the mix there's bound to be corruption.
What I felt was unfair was your statement:
"He could probably have killed and eaten the kid afterwards and they would have looked the other way if the team had a winning season that year."
And this is how I interpret it:
He= the Coach
they= fellow coaches/NCAA
And, while I agree that there certainly ARE bad apples (clearly! Look at this shit storm with Sandusky) I disagree that this sentiment IN GENERAL holds true. Which is why I responded with asking if you are making a sweeping generalization at college athletic coaches and the NCAA.
Because, while you may find me idealistic, I know that this isn't true.
It was more of a tongue-in-cheek statement, so you probably shouldn't take it so hard. Incidentally, by they I actually meant the Board of Trustees for Penn State.
While I completely understand the value some people find in them, I'm not a fan of college athletic programs. At least not the money machines they have become. Athletics should be there as something to round out a student's education, not the juggernauts they are now. Hell, University of Miami used to graduate ball players that could barely read.
I also read that the witness to what occured in the shower in 2002 was "traumatized" and "afraid" by what he saw.....BUT also heard today that he was a former player at 250+ pounds and six feet tall. AFRAID OF WHAT? Losing his position at his beloved school?
Like Paterno said this morning...."I have come to work every day for the last 61 years with one clear goal in mind: To serve the best interests of this university....." I'll bet.
November 9, 2011
Robert Siegel speaks to Dave Ridpath, an assistant professor of sports administration at Ohio University. Ridpath, a former Division 1 wrestling coach and assistant athletic director at Marshall University, has called the current system of college sports "broken." He says that the current scandal at Penn State is the most extreme example of a college sports system that protects teams at all costs.
Thanks for the link, anonny. That was interesting.
How to respond? The interview with the wrestling coach broadly touched on what was "broken". Broken seems to be the catch phrase for America these days - the banks are broken, our justice system is broken, etc etc and now he says college football has been broken "for 100 years". He didn't really give his reasoning. I would love to talk to him about that.
The interviewee did say that he has seen great strides in the NCAA to right past wrongs. Kudos. I have a very close friend (from HS) who has worked for the NCAA for years. I know his commitment to monitoring and reforming. So, I agree.
The interviewee commented that he felt that athletic depts take away rather than add to the overall health of the university, although he did not state exactly how or why. So, that's kind of hard to comment on. Except, I know I have met kids where athletics was there ticket out of nowhere-ville, and I have seen them grow to wonderful people. Obviously, I don't know everyone and in life there is the pluses and the minuses with opportunity.
I am in no way wanting to position myself as a know all of College Sports or even just College Football. All I can say is that I have met many college coaches at all levels, administrators, and players and I have seen the good in them and the good that College football can provide. I am not negating that in every "business" there are worthless jerks who will take advantage where possible. That's granted.
The anonny was me Anny, sorry. I don't have it set to auto login at home.
I guess I'll just say I'm glad you're related to good people, and have met many others in college sports who you feel are honorable.
I think in general it's yet another facet of our society where absolute power corrupts absolutely, with a healthy serving of "Everyone else is doing it, and if I don't, I won't have a career," tossed in.
Football and Basketball at the div 1 level in college is corrupt, and the players are bascially in the minor leagues getting paid to see if they can make the real professional leagues to rake in the real dough for those who would exploit them for life while not giving a shit about their concussions, their knees, or whatever.
"Football and Basketball at the div 1 level in college is corrupt"
This, again, is a 100 percent statement. It is hard for me to comment on absolutes. And... corrupt who? The players? The system? The coaches? The individual universities? so.many.layers.
If, Squid, you are talking the system as it is set up... no comment. That's like asking me to defend our founding fathers on the government they invisioned "100 years" ago, as the interviewee gave the time frame from the link posted by anonny.
My loyalties are with those who work NOW within the established framework and the people trying to enforce the already set up framework. Isn't that how we choose to support any system?
it really isn't any different from the political system you worked within. Is it?
ETA: and DERP! I realize you said you were "anonny"
ETAA: I hope no one thinks EVER that I think Paterno should get off without a full ON FLOGGING. GAH! I am merely saying that I believe the balance is not THAT!
This message has been edited by AnnyBoo on Nov 9, 2011 10:51 PM This message has been edited by AnnyBoo on Nov 9, 2011 10:49 PM
"It's hard to go up against a guy like that, who protects his pervert friends"
I suppose it is but what happened to the "do the right thing"? While I am not that educated in the american football scene (be it high school, college or pro) it concerns me that this type of behaviour by adults is widespread in youth sports and frankly I don't give a rats ass what country you live in.
It saddens me that these actions are all over the place. Hockey youth camps, the boy scouts, choir boys, football camps blah blah blah...you name it and the peds are there.
How they got to that position of control is beyond me. Someone would/should have noticed stuff and fricken reported it right then and there.
The thing that bugs me the most? Is that it seems like the powers that be, covered it up so they all look like Joe, the friendly guy from next door who gives out the best candy. In Joe's case, he gave out candy since 1961, which is a long time but I wonder how many others are getting away with that crap.
I feel badly for all the good peoples who do help to encourage our young people to see the values in good sportsmanship.
It was well known on campus that what they wanted, they got; and they were not shy about letting you know that.
They also were constantly pulling strings to get academic restrictions "massaged" for star players, and athletes had a tendency to get away with a lot of residence life infractions that no other students did. We even had a baller pull a knife on someone at a party and the incident mysteriously went away.
I had one of the star players in one of my math classes and he was a first-class piece of shit. He failed nearly every test and barely showed up to class. I have no idea how the guy passed the class but he did.
I guess we disagree on what constitutes corruption in a system.
For me, if a significant percentage of the operating reality is contrary to the established, published rules of a system, it's corrupt regardless of what percentage of the participants in the system aren't corrupt.
So, let's make up numbers. If a third of programs violate NCAA rules, it's a corrupt system in my mind. Another third knows about the first third and isn't doing anything, and the remaining third has their head in the sand. The governing body absolutely knows that their rules are a sham and not preventing jack shit, and only responds in cases where sunshine peeks into their money printing cave illuminating the slimy denizens dwelling within.
OK.. i just googled. Apparently, Ashton thought Paterno was fired "over a football thing" when he tweeted and the backlash from his 8 million followers caused him to leave twitter after several apologies.
Funny tweet: "The only good to come from the Penn State scandal: Ashton Kutcher has stopped tweeting. #PSU"
Rioting after a guy that helped to shelter a child predator for 7 years gets fired. Not only kept quiet, but helped provide facilities which the predator used to rape children. Sandusky had full and open access to all the Penn State athletic facilities. For some kids that's almost like having an all-access pass to Disney World. They let him keep said access even after pretty much everyone in the program knew he raped little boys as a hobby.
Now kids are literally rioting in the streets because Paterno gets fired for that?
Stay classy Penn State.
This message has been edited by Hepatitis_C on Nov 12, 2011 3:15 PM
I think he let them off fairly easy. Yes it was pithy, and a nice arrow to the heart of it, but what's missing here is that this is the #45 ranked institution for higher learning in the country. These are not 'thugs' turning over cars in Detroit. These are supposed to be young adults among our best and brightest.
1998 - Victim 6 is taken into the locker rooms and showers when he is 11 years old. When Victim 6 is dropped off at home, his hair is wet from showering with Sandusky. His mother reports the incident to the university police, who investigate.
Detective Ronald Schreffler testifies that he and State College Police Department Detective Ralph Ralston, with the consent of the mother of Victim 6, eavesdrop on two conversations the mother of Victim 6 has with Sandusky. Sandusky says he has showered with other boys and Victim 6's mother tries to make Sandusky promise never to shower with a boy again but he will not. At the end of the second conversation, after Sandusky is told he cannot see Victim 6 anymore, Schreffler testifies Sandusky says, "I understand. I was wrong. I wish I could get forgiveness. I know I won't get it from you. I wish I were dead."
Jerry Lauro, an investigator with the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, testifies he and Schreffler interviewed Sandusky, and that Sandusky admits showering naked with Victim 6, admits to hugging Victim 6 while in the shower and admits that it was wrong.
The case is closed after then-Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar decides there will be no criminal charge.
He resigned in 99, when everyone thought he was going to take over the program from Paterno. People don't just resign from jobs they worked their whole lives to get, for nothin. That's the part that killed me. They had to know that something was going on in the 90's. Then there was the confirmed case in 2002. Yet Sandusky was allowed to use Penn State's facility until at least 2002 and maybe beyond?
Here's a timeline of events. It goes way back to at least 1994.
When the Jerry Sandusky scandal first broke, Joe Paterno said, "If true, the nature and amount of charges made are very shocking to me and all Penn Staters," and, "If this is true we were all fooled."
Oh that poor man! Sandusky fooled him! Paterno had no idea any of this was happening! And yet, as reported by the NY Times
Joe Paterno transferred full ownership of his house to his wife, Sue, for $1 in July, less than four months before a sexual abuse scandal engulfed his Penn State football program and the university. According to documents filed with the county, the house's fair-market value was listed at $594,484.40.
Hmm. Well I bet law professors hear about husbands selling a house to their wife for $1 all the time. It's probably just for tax purposes.
Lawrence A. Frolik, a law professor at the University of Pittsburgh, said that he had "never heard" of a husband selling a house to his wife for $1 for tax or government assistance purposes. "I cant see any tax advantages," Frolik said. "If someone told me that, my reaction would be, 'Are they hoping to shield assets in case if there's personal liability?'" He added, "It sounds like an attempt to avoid personal liability in having assets in his wife's name."
So is that why he did it? To make sure those greedy parents couldn't sue him in civil court just because he helped protect a pedophile rapist from the law? When asked about this earlier today, Paterno said
"Well those little kids didn't cover their ass so now I have to cover mine."
No, he didn't really say that. That would have been a good joke though.
Has anyone mentioned the DA that opted not to prosecute in 1998? If I am not mistaken, the victim who went to the police in 1998 and wanted charges filed (I believe this is the young man whose mother was contacted by her son's school....it came out to a teacher or counselor first even though she'd been suspicious) was told by the DA that there wasn't enough to prosecute and they were declining to do so.
A few years later, said DA completely disappears off the face of the Earth under suspicious circumstances and STILL has never been heard from again? His car was found abandoned and his computer, missing its hard drive, was found tossed off a bridge.
"The investigation was initiated in the spring of 2008, after the mother of a boy (identified in court papers as "Victim 1"), then a freshman at Central Mountain High School in Clinton County, Pennsylvania, reported that the boy had been sexually abused by Sandusky. According to court papers, Sandusky had been having a relationship involving "inappropriate touching" with Victim 1 since 2005 or 2006, when the boy was 11 or 12. Sandusky had met the boy through the Second Mile program before retiring from the program in 2010. Sandusky was volunteering as an assistant high school football coach at Central, also, at the time of the alleged actions. The investigation included testimony from various individuals at Penn State and The Second Mile. Pennsylvania Attorney General Linda Kelly has said that during the grand jury investigation there was an "uncooperative atmosphere" from some of these officials."
Maybe this better addresses your question, Arwen? While the investigation was long ongoing and they long suspected Sandusky of being a serial molester, the investigators couldn't find anyone who would talk.
Until a message board posting:
A post on a Penn State fan forum was the key break in the Jerry Sandusky case, because it led investigators to Mike McQueary, who finally "unburdened himself" about what he knew about the ex-coach's sexual abuse of children.
According to an in-depth look at the legal side of the Sandsuky case, pulled together by The New York Times, the Pennsylvania attorney general's office had long suspected Sandusky of being a serial molester, but had been unable to find anyone close to the coach who could speak to the allegations other than the victims who were mostly unwilling to talk.
Then they stumbled upon a random post on a PSU football message board that suggested there might be a Nittany Lion coach who saw something and wasn't talking. Investigators narrowed the options down to McQueary, then set up a secret meeting away from the prying eyes of Penn State fans. Once he was approached, they say, McQueary needed little prompting to tell them what he knew.
What's amazing to me is what was going on around the same time - the Catholic Church scandal erupted in 2002, and Pope John Paul accepted Cardinal Law of Boston's resignation - pretty much at the same time. Which is to say, playing out in the media all around these guys at Penn State, a textbook case of how NOT to handle such things, and yet... any yet...
I can just imagine how nervous everyone would have been at that time about being found out. It amazes me that things like that are kept quiet for so long considering how many people were involved in some way or another.