"Eddie's Air Gun Forum"

This forum is for air gun users and people interested in air guns. You may talk about Chinese air guns, other makes of air guns, post air gun photos, you may exchange ideas, ask for advice, ask questions, talk about hunting with air guns, air gun repairs, air gun hot roding, "Slick 50" + other lubes and other air gun related information.

NO BAD LANGUAGE ALLOWED, NO POLICTICS, NO PERSONAL ATTACKS, lets keep this forum cool and decent.

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Thanks

by kzz1 (Login kzz1)

Eddie!!!

Posted on Oct 13, 2002, 10:35 AM
from IP address 67.36.56.61

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Your welcome...nt.

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

Eddie

Posted on Oct 13, 2002, 12:59 PM
from IP address 66.50.73.38

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Camera tripod mount question!

by (Login kzz1)

Bought a camera tripod mount from Walmart and I want to set it up for testing my air rifle and other rifles. Can anyone share some ideas and pictures of their setup? Thanks!

Posted on Oct 12, 2002, 4:23 PM
from IP address 66.72.62.55

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Ok, here it is...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

I took a piece of PVC plastic drainage tubing, 4 inches long, 2 inches wide, 3 inches wide would be better. I cut it in half, sanded down the edges round. I drilled a hole in the middle of the base of pvc just a little bit smaller than the camera's tripod screw so that the screw would screw in tight. I roughly sand down the inside of the pvc with 80 grit sand paper to insure the contact cement would hold better. I took a old foam rubber beer cooler, I cut off a piece a little bigger than the shape of the inside and glued that inside the pvc with contact cement. I let that dry and shaved off the excess with a single edge razon blade.

A simple job and it works great.

Eddie

PS. This somebody else's idea, so I haven't posted it on my site, I saw this on the internet someplace a while back. One thing is for sure, it is a good idea and it works great.

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.38 on Oct 13, 2002 6:25 AM
This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.38 on Oct 13, 2002 6:11 AM

Posted on Oct 13, 2002, 6:09 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.38

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Question about Moly grease?

by kzz1 (Login kzz1)

Found a Citgo brand high temp dics & drum brake wheel bearing grease which contains molybdenum disulfide. Is this moly grease?

Posted on Oct 12, 2002, 5:41 PM
from IP address 67.36.63.172

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It is just a grease contains moly but not high %

by HankC (Login HankC)

You can buy 60% moly paste from Honda Motorcycle dealers but I did not have any luck to find it at dealers in my area. You can also order it from http://www.jamesmaccari.com/
or M2M moly paste from straightshooters.com. I am using moly powder from Cabelas, only $8 for a 8 oz jar, enough for a life time supply.

Posted on Oct 12, 2002, 8:54 PM
from IP address 64.12.96.203

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Sounds like the same stuff...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

might even be better than chain grease, disc brake bearing grease has to be a hi temp grease, good combo, hi temp grease and moly.

Sounds good.

Eddie

Posted on Oct 13, 2002, 5:48 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.38

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Does anyone have chrony data on a Crosman 1077 ? nt

by ggun (Login GGUN)

n

Posted on Oct 8, 2002, 5:54 PM
from IP address 192.91.75.29

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Well just so happens a client asked for one of these...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

so I ordered one for him. He wanted the air gun sighted, so while I was at it I decided to chrony the 1077. I used Crosman pointed pellets .177 cal., surprisingly to me this CO2 air gun gives lots of jumps in speeds, not normal in a CO2 model, I guess this is due to it's fast auto trigger action, more of something like a double action revoler trigger action. Not very powerful though, I only chronyed about 8 shots, it shoots around 498 fps average and can jump anywhere from 460 fps up to 520 fps even with a new CO2 cartridge. Maybe with use it will break in and give steadier speeds. But I doubt that even with the lightest pellets on the market it will give their advertised 625 fps. Gives about 38 good shots per CO2 cartridge, after that the pellets lose power.

Very light weight, almost all plastic, the auto action was fun to shoot, 12 shoots per load and it looks cool. Just to under powered for my liking.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.74.136 on Oct 10, 2002 2:54 PM

Posted on Oct 10, 2002, 2:53 PM
from IP address 66.50.74.136

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my bulked 1077 chronied

by ^tg^ (Login t.g.)

at 640 average last summer on an upper 70 degree day with 7.9 gr. Crosman Preimers.....high of 662, low was 620. those were the only pellets I had with me that day. It was a quick session and I only had the chance to shoot 3 clips full. mine is a 1st generation 1077.

"If you like it, who gives a ratsass what anybody else thinks"
^tg^

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 3:18 PM
from IP address 208.20.92.53

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BULK????

by Brent (Login afineman)

TG

could you give me the bulking INFO.
Where did you get the all hardware????

Thanks

AFineMan

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 4:25 PM
from IP address 68.68.34.131

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My 1077

by (Login afineman)

Howdy all

This post is to update and answer a question.

My Crosman 1077 shoots a Beeman 7.1 Gr hollow point, gold coated pellet( found these pellets at Wal-Mart) at an average of 597 FPS. My target was 50 feet away and the FPE was 3.8 (at the ponit of impact), the accuracy was Very good,
At 50 feet I put all pellets in the same � inch hole ( this has a 12 round clip).

I really like this gun and it has removed 4 squirrels form my yard in the last week.
For all who are looking for a 10 to 25 yard vermin remover, this is the gun for you!!

You ONLY get 24 good shots per CO2 cartage, BUT it holds a CO2 charge for more than 2 weeks ( I zeroed in my scope, then allowed 3 weeks to pass ON SAME CO2 cartage), I then shot at the same target at the same distance, the shots were �pellet on top of pellet grouping, at the last scope setting.

WELL??? This is my review of this gun

Happy Plinking ALL

AFineMan

This message has been edited by afineman from IP address 68.68.34.131 on Oct 12, 2002 6:53 AM

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 4:05 PM
from IP address 68.68.34.131

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A 7.1gr pellet at 597fps is carrying 5.62fpe. Not 2-something.

by Steve in NC (Login pneuguy)

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 4:40 PM
from IP address 208.61.70.40

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You are correct

by Brent (Login afineman)

Steve/Eddie

You are correct, the FPE @ the muzzle ( where the velocity was measured ) is 5+FPE.

Steve, I was measuring the FPE at POI.

Steve, (all) we are ALL looking to have humane shots, my goal was to show that a 1077 had an OK FPE @ 50 feet.
The error that I made ( this is a typical thing) was that I didn't say the FPE was @ 50 feet

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 7:05 PM
from IP address 68.68.34.131

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Really? For a pellet to lose 54% of its muzzle energy in only 50 feet...

by Steve in NC (Login pneuguy)

...would require a ballistic coefficient of only .005. I've never seen a pellet with aerodynamics that lousy. 0.008 is the worst I'd previously heard of.

Wow. What pellet were you shooting? Your description of a 7.1gr hollow point sounded like the Beeman SilverBear. The SilverBear does have a low BC, but it's .01 (not .005) and so should still retain 65% (3.7 out of 5.6) of its original muzzle energy at 50 feet. Not a puny 46% (2.6 of 5.6).

2.6fpe, by the way, according to some experiments I did recently, is insufficient to penetrate the skin of a common airgun quarry -- grey squirrels.

Curious,
Steve

This message has been edited by pneuguy from IP address 208.61.70.40 on Oct 11, 2002 10:40 PM
This message has been edited by pneuguy from IP address 208.61.70.40 on Oct 11, 2002 10:37 PM
This message has been edited by pneuguy from IP address 208.61.70.40 on Oct 11, 2002 10:36 PM

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 10:15 PM
from IP address 208.61.70.40

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3.82 @ 50 feet, 2.6 @ 100 feet

by Brent (Login afineman)

OOPPSS I Goofed
As usual, you were correct again Steve.

When doing my pellet testing on my B21 I set up my FPE tables for 100 feet.
So when I was testing my 1077 @ 50 feet I goofed and used my 100 foot tables.

I will go back and edit my message.

Thanks again all, for keeping me honest.

AFineMan

This message has been edited by afineman from IP address 68.68.34.131 on Oct 12, 2002 6:55 AM

Posted on Oct 12, 2002, 6:46 AM
from IP address 68.68.34.131

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Sounds about the same power I got...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

with 7.9 gr. Crosman pointed pellets. If TG's numbers are correct it looks like bulking it gives the air gun more power. Might be worth the investment.

Eddie

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 5:03 PM
from IP address 66.50.74.27

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My B21

by Brent (Login afineman)

Hi All

Well I spent most of the day with my B21. I got MANY responses to my HELP question ( accuracy ), Sorry to say �None of them worked� it seems that it is NOT how I hold the gun. It seems it is NOT the scope ( I replaced it with a new one, and, guess what , it was the SAME), HHOO BTW I am consistently getting 980 FPS from the Crosman 7.9 pointed pellets.

This gun Has about 3000 shots on the seal and spring ( It just keeps getting better). AND , YES I am still using Krytox , and NO, I do not see any form of combustion ( smoke or smell).

That�s ALL folks

AFineMan

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 4:40 PM
from IP address 68.68.34.131

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Hmmm, this one has me puzzled...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

Your group should have improved. Maybe it is jumps in speed of the air gun.

980 fps is pretty dam good anyway.

Eddie

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 4:58 PM
from IP address 66.50.74.27

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The TF99 does have a

by kzz1 (Login kzz1)

Leather piston seal! I call the factory and The place that I got the rifle from and both said it is a leather piston not the syn piston! I'm a happy camper!

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 1:14 PM
from IP address 67.36.59.36

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Thanks for the info...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

Eddie

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 1:15 PM
from IP address 66.50.73.30

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B21 front sight

by (Login 144man)

Have a B21 which I have successfully scoped. I removed the front sight from the ramp, but I would like to remove the aluminum ramp and barrel surround as well. How does this thing come off? What is left when you remove this? Would also appreciate any information on shortening the barrel, specifically, how would I re-crown it after cutting?

Posted on Oct 8, 2002, 5:25 AM
from IP address 208.22.33.222

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If it is a new B-21, I have read on...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

the other forums that the ramp is glued on and is very hard to get off. I recommend you leave that thing on, the last guy that tried that was hammering the thing off with a wheel pully. About cutting of the end and crowning the air gun. Well you might lose some power if you do that, it all depends on how much you cut off. Cutting a little off the barrel should not effect your air gun's speed to much.

About re-crowning the barrel. This can be done by using a round slot less bolt, with the use of a variable speed drill and the bolt. You will also need a rubbing compound. The size of the round slot less end of bolt is important, check the round edge by trying the fit on the factory's crown barrel end to see if it is the right shape and size, by doing this you will be sure that you are making the right size crown for your barrel. By using the rubbing compound the bolt at a slow speed with the drill you can re-crown the inside of the barrel. The outer side of the barrel can be smoothed out with fine metal sand paper. After that it must be re-blued, a blueing touch up pen can help you there.

Sorry about the delay in my reply, my phone line has been down for the last 3 days.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.74.136 on Oct 10, 2002 2:06 PM

Posted on Oct 10, 2002, 1:55 PM
from IP address 66.50.74.136

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Thanks

by Jim (Login 144man)

Guess I'll leave it on for now. One more question... I've seen refences on some other forums to inserting bearings on either end of the mainspring so it doesn't impart any torque on the gun as it expands. This makes some sense to me, but I'm not sure about how much room there might be for these bearings. Any experience here?

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 5:22 AM
from IP address 208.22.33.222

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Has anyone tried using a small gear pully...

by Skans (Login skans)

I would protect the barrel crown by placing a small flat washer over the crown where the pully screw goes and position the prongs over the lip of the site assembly. This shouldn't be too hard to do, but you would have to clean up the barrel after doing this. No need to beat on the poor thing, however.

Posted on Oct 10, 2002, 2:40 PM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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I think I read over at the Fun Suppy forum that...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

one guy tried that and it didn't work, I believe it is the same guy that was using both the pully and a hammer, this guy even used heat. If I remember well he did manage to get it off, but in his attempts he did some damage to the barrel.

Eddie

Posted on Oct 10, 2002, 3:55 PM
from IP address 66.50.73.249

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Sounds like the easiest thing to do....

by Skans (Login skans)

is simply cut the barrel just after the sight assembly and recrown the barrel. I think the barrel on the B-22 is a little long anyway, and if it is cut down only by the size of the sight assembly, I seriously doubt that it would have any adverse impact on performance. In fact, it would help to make the rifle a little more balanced.

Hey, Eddie, don't you think that the barrel on the B-22/B-21 is way overengineered for a pellet gun. I've seen smaller diameter barrels on .223 rifles. Do you think that Xisco could be using rifle blanks made primarily for .223 or even 7.62 firearms? It would be "in charicter" for the Chinese to utilize firearms barrel blanks rather than tool up specially for pellet gun barrels, especially at the price they sell these things for. The rifiling and bore might be different, but I would bet that they are using firearm barrels for the B-21/B-22. What do you think?

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 5:32 AM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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Very interesting...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

well I doubt that cutting the barrel right behind the ramp would cause a great lost of power, maybe a few fps or who knows it just might gain a few fps, sometimes gains happen. And yes you would be reducing the front weight a little, producing a more balanced air gun.

About XS using .223 fire arm's barrels, I doubt it, I don't think they use that caliber in their Army, they do use the Nato round. But this doesn't mean they are not using a barrel stock they might already have for another weapon, they might just bore it a different caliber. It would be cheaper to use a existing barrel stock that they might have, as you said, than having to produce another barrel stock, so it could be possible. XS air guns are made in the same factory the Chinese make their weapons for their Army. Take for instants, the XS B-3, Ak style, this air gun is produced for their youth troops in their Army for training.

I forgot to mention, there is a modified B-21 on my site that has a chopped barrel, this job was done by Ray, he did a real good job. Check it out.

Let me know how things go with the barrel, if possible chrony it before and then after modifying the barrel.

Good luck.

Eddie

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 7:12 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.127

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B21 Barrel

by Jim (Login 144man)

Thanks for the info, guys. Think I'm going to cut it off right behind the sight ramp. I saw the one Ray modified, too short for my taste. I aggree that the barrel seems overengineered. When I first opened the box it came in, I thought it had a full length shroud! Couldn't believe it was solid steel. As for loss/gain, I'm afraid I don't have a chronograph. Also, I plan on doing some other mods while I've got it out of the stock, so any before/after would be the result of several things. I'm pleased with the power of the gun as it stands now, and am thrilled with the accuracy. My mods will be aimed at creating a slightly lighter B21 with the smoothest action I can create, not necessarily the fastest.

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 7:56 AM
from IP address 208.22.33.222

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If you look down the forum, you will see a tune...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

I did to a B-21. To cushion the impact I placed a rubber hose gasket inbetween the washer and the spring guide. I also used Hi Temp Grease on the main spring, these two factors made the B-21 shoot more smoother.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.41 on Oct 11, 2002 10:55 AM

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 10:53 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.41

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TF 99 Question?

by (Login kzz1)

Just ordered a TF 99. Its an upgrade from the Powerline 880 I had since I was a kid. I never owned a Chinese made air rifle so I don't know what to execpt? Anyone here own one of these air rifles? Any problems with this rifle? I hope I made a good choice? I'll be hunting rats with this rifle. What ammo should I use? Thanks!

Posted on Oct 8, 2002, 11:28 PM
from IP address 64.108.73.151

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It may work ok,

by (Login TechForce)

or it may not. I have heard some bad things concerning this gun. I was going to buy one a while ago, but all the negative feedback turned me off to it. I have a .177 caliber QB36, made by the same company, TechForce, which preforms impressively indeed. It is also very accurate, only drawback is the power. It only shoots at about 700fps with light pellets, and about 600fps with Beeman Crow Magnums and CPH's. Don't believe either the 900fps rating they give to the QB36, or the 1,100fps rating they give the TF99. Don't let that turn you off though, these are well made, reliable, and accurate guns. They are also very quiet. They are easy to cock and shoot for long periods. Good luck with it, and let us know what you think of it. Oh, BTW, is it .177 or .22? I would prefer the .22 caliber in a gun like this myself. I hope this helped some.
See you,
NS.

Posted on Oct 9, 2002, 1:32 PM
from IP address 209.245.102.172

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Should I

by kzz1 (Login kzz1)

clean off the factory oil and use the Slick 50? what type of cleaner should I use? Will break cleaner work? I read the article about using Slick 50. Will this gun kill rodents and if so, what pellet should I use? Also its a 177 rifle. Thanks

Posted on Oct 9, 2002, 6:27 PM
from IP address 67.36.57.140

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It should have enough power

by (Login TechForce)

to dispatch rodents up to woodchuck size with effective shot placement. Don't expect over 850fps with lighter pellets from this gun. It should be quite accurate, and well balanced, if my research is correct. I do believe Slick 50 will do alot of good for this gun, especially it's cocking sequence. Eddie, who markets this stuff could give you alot more information there, as I haven't tried any myself. ood luck with TF99, and please let me know how well it shoots. I hope this helped some.
See yah,
NS.

Posted on Oct 10, 2002, 11:48 AM
from IP address 209.245.110.78

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Thanks

by (Login kzz1)

NS!Are you saying the more the pellet grain the more the velocity?

Posted on Oct 10, 2002, 5:14 PM
from IP address 68.22.154.103

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Just the opposite. Grains are a measure of the weight of the pellet...

by Steve in NC (Login pneuguy)

...7000grains = 1 pound avoirdupois.

When's the last time you knew of a heavier thing going faster than a lighter thing when pushed by the same force?

Actually, springer-piston airguns do a pretty good job (generally speaking) of delivering the same kinetic energy (measured in foot-pounds -- abbreviated "fpe") to different weight pellets. When you do the math, this means that a pellet that's 10% heavier (10% more grains) will go approximately 5% slower.

What this tends to mean (YMMV) is that a lighter pellet will have a flatter trajectory (due to its shorter flight time to the target) and is therefore easier to place where you're aiming, while a heavier pellet will tend to do more damge when it gets there.

But this is grossly oversimplified. Pellet shape makes a difference both to trajectory and wound ballistics too. The MOST important thing by far is to find the pellets that shoot accurately in your particular airgun.

HTH,
Steve

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 7:02 AM
from IP address 208.61.166.114

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That's

by (Login kzz1)

where I'm at right now trying to choose the best pellet for the gun. I'm trying to tighten up the grouping to less than 1"? Don't know if its me the pellets or both. Plus this gun is still new so, I think after going through a few hundred rounds the gun will be more consistant I hope.

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 7:51 AM
from IP address 67.36.59.59

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Absolutely not!

by NS. (Login TechForce)

What I mean is, you probably won't get over 850fps with ANY pellets, and that it would take very light(6.0 grains) pellets to do that. I agree with the suggestions made about Crosman Copperheads. They shoot very well in all my Chinese airguns. Also, they tend to like BS Diablo domes, and Daisy Maxspeeds. I hope this helped some.
See yah,
NS.

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 9:28 AM
from IP address 209.245.100.181

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Sorry about the delay in my reply...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

my phone line has been down for the last 3 days.

Well, if it is the TF99 from Compassco, it should work pretty good and should have power to spare for rat hunting. May not be as good as the B-2-1, but the it should have more than enough power for hunting rats.

I do recommend you clean the air gun out first by taking it apart and using a degreaser, then lubing it with the lube of your choice. Using moly paste or hi-temp disc brake grease on the main spring and the piston is a good idea and lightly coating the inside of the chamber with a 50/50 mixture of moly paste and Slick 50 works well with syn. seal models. I am not sure if this model has a leather piston seal or a syn. piston seal. Let me know, I am very interested in finding a magnum model that comes with a leather piston seal for testing.

Over time I have found that Crosman pellets work great with all Chinese springers (air guns). I recommend you using Crosman's domed pellets for rat hunting in .177 cal.. Very accurate and they harvest game well with their domed/round headed shaped pellets.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.74.136 on Oct 10, 2002 2:24 PM

Posted on Oct 10, 2002, 2:22 PM
from IP address 66.50.74.136

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I degreased

by kzz1 (Login kzz1)

the factory grease and oil with brake clean and lubed up the spring with Slick 50. I got a gun cleaning kit for this rifle and it came with a spring, leather piston and some other parts. I assume this rifle has the leather piston so I cleaned out the piston chamber with brake clean and used compressed air to dry out the rifle. I used Slick 50 in the piston chamber so I'm sure the piston got lubed. Should I put grease back on the spring or should the Slick 50 be good enough?

Posted on Oct 10, 2002, 5:05 PM
from IP address 68.22.154.103

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Where did you get the kit for this air gun?

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

Did it come with it, or did you send away for it? I just want to make sure that this air gun comes with a leather piston seal. I have heard that it does, but I am not sure. If you sent away for it, what does it say on the box?

Well, if I am right and this air gun does comes with a leather piston seal, this thing should shoot over 1,000 fps with Slick 50. I do advice that you mix some moly paste/grease with the Slick 50 to dampen the combustion a little, this thing should break the sound barrier easily with each shot. You will know when it breaks the sound barrier because you will hear a loud sonic crack noise.

Some hi-temp grease in the main spring will help the air gun smooth out (about one small spoon full), reduce vibrations and avoid wear on the sides of the spring. Remember to lube the trigger assemably and the pivot points with Slick 50.

Let us know how it sounds when you shoot it.

Eddie

Posted on Oct 10, 2002, 5:44 PM
from IP address 66.50.73.82

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I got

by (Login kzz1)

the kit from All Around the House. The gun cleaning kit with parts a marked by marked for the TF97/36. I am assuming that the /36 is for the TF36? Do they make a TF36? Anyways, the main spring and leather piston and other parts fit on to the TF99?

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 6:48 AM
from IP address 67.36.59.59

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Well actually, there are 3...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

B-36 models. All of them are Industry made. One is the original B-36, then came the B-36-1 with a more deluxe stock, both these shoot around 820 fps in .177 cal.. Then came the B-36-2, which is the model you have. Compassco (sellers) gives their Industry models the TF name and they have some improvements done on these models. The Compassco (Sellers) is the one that came up with the original TF-99 name, they also boast that their TF-99 comes with a McCarie main spring. So if we look at it this way, the TF-99 should be and is a B-36-2 with a McCarie main spring. I have noticed on the internet other companies (sellers) giving the stock B-36-2 the name of TF-99, the real TF-99 is the one Compassco sells, the others are stock B-36-2s.

So the way I figure this out is, the real Compassco model with the McCarie main spring and the piston's leather seal should produce super sonic cracks/shots lubing it with my air gun juice. 2:6 moly, 4:6 Slick 50. In other words this springer should break the sound barrier (1,115 fps) on every shot and shoot as loud as a bolt action .22 rimfire fire arm.

Hmmm, I might just buy one for testing it.

Eddie

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 7:31 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.127

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I don't

by kzz1 (Login kzz1)

know what you mean by loud but, I own a 22 cal. rifle that I shoot 22LR's and the sound is similar. My friend thought it was a 22 going off? Again, this is my first Chinese air rifle and my other is a Daisy 880. No comparsion. Also, Grouping from about 20 yards with Maxi Speeds (4.5 grams) pointed pellets where about an inch and most of the time it when right through 1/2" plywood! Haven't tried other brands or weights yet. I did buy some Crosman Premier pellets (Field target pellets-10.5 gr) and Crosman Supermatch (7.9) that I'll try later this weekend

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 7:46 AM
from IP address 67.36.59.59

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Well the sound is a Ka pow sound...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

much like that of a .22 rimfire L.R. revolver or a bolt action single fire .22 rimfire rifle, a loud bang sound. Most auto rimfire rifles don't break the sound barrier, because the weapon uses part of the combustion from the gun powder to eject the empty shell.

I find that Crosman domed and pointed pellets (7.9 gr.) work best with most Chinese air guns, try those pointed pellets and try shooting a 3/4 inch thick plywood panel. If the air gun is shooting over 1,100 fps, those pointed pellets should go thru a 3/4 inch thick plywood panel.

Eddie

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 9:55 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.42

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Also,

by (Login kzz1)

Do you have the SM1000 in stock? Thing about getting one?!

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 7:55 AM
from IP address 67.36.59.59

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Yes, I have chronyed the SM1000,

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

after lubing with Slick 50 this air gun produces speeds over 1,200 fps and gives off a loud sonic sound, like that of a .38 cal. pistol. The higher the speed the louder the noise.

Monday I sold a B-21, in 22 cal., I tuned it and I was getting around 820 fps. A drop of Slick 50 produced speeds up to 920 fps.

2 drops of Slick 50 in the B-21 (syn.seal) in .177 cal. produces speeds of up to 1,210 fps.

The combustion is shorted lived, due to the syn. piston seal. This is why I am interested in a magnum class air gun with a leather piston seal, leather piston seals absorb lube and can slowly release it, giving off a good slow combustion, not a fast volient one. The leather piston seal the B-4-2 has, makes this air gun the most powerful low budget air gun in it's class. So now that I know the TF-99 comes with a leather piston seal, I see good potienal in the TF-99.

Eddie

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 10:14 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.42

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BTW...

by (Login kzz1)

it is and Industry brand rifle.

Posted on Oct 10, 2002, 5:07 PM
from IP address 68.22.154.103

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Scope mount question for the TF99?

by (Login kzz1)

Mounted a scope on the TF99 and the mounting rings don't seen to mount very well? The scope appears to be cocked. Is there a proper way to adjust the mounting rings on the rifle? Thanks!

Posted on Oct 10, 2002, 5:11 PM
from IP address 68.22.154.103

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The scope mount must be mounted evenly...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

for it to stay on. Loosen it and do not tighten it till you are sure both sides are mounted inside the dove tail and they the mount is leveled evenly on both sides.

Eddie

Posted on Oct 10, 2002, 5:47 PM
from IP address 66.50.73.82

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I've tried

by kzz1 (Login kzz1)

every possible combo to get the scope to mount right. No such luck. I'm guessing that it is the actual mounting rings that are not up to par. LOL! Can't complain thou. They where free with the scope. I'll check out Walmart and pick up the weaver brand scope rings for a 22.cal rifle. Thanks anyways!

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 12:00 AM
from IP address 64.109.110.27

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I guess the ring's clamps are defective...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

also check the dove tails to insure that they are not defective.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.127 on Oct 11, 2002 4:39 AM

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 4:38 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.127

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My B-4-2 won't cock!

by Brandon Twite (Login btwite61)

Today I went out to shoot my .177 B-4-2. I cocked it and shot at my target, but when I went to reload my gun it would not cock. I think the spring may not be catching on wherever it catches on. I went back inside, took off the stock, but I still couldn't see anything wrong. I really don't want to take my gun apart. Any ideas???

Thanks

Posted on Oct 9, 2002, 4:03 PM
from IP address 68.129.20.18

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I fixed it!

by Brandon Twite (Login btwite61)

After messing around with my B-4-2 for about an hour i finally found out what was wrong. Just a jammed piece.

Posted on Oct 9, 2002, 7:11 PM
from IP address 68.129.20.18

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This has happened to a few of my clients...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

they bring the air gun half cocked and complaining it won't fire. All I do it cock it again, pulling hard on the cocking arm a couple of times all the way down and it shoots. What happens is that the air gun has only been cocked half way, so the piston catches, but the trigger's device hasn't been cocked all the way so it can't fire.

It can happen to any one, it has even happened to me a couple of times.

Eddie

Posted on Oct 10, 2002, 2:34 PM
from IP address 66.50.74.136

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What model is that?

by cracko (Login cracko)

Hi Eddie: Great web site! Is the "B-42" the same as the XS-B4-2(sometimes referred to as the B4-2) ?

Posted on Oct 8, 2002, 6:01 PM
from IP address 216.56.81.100

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Yes the B4-2

by John (Login B4-2er)

Is the same thing B42,B4-2 XSB4-2 if it has a B and a 4-2 in it. It's a B4-2 they are GREAT GUNS!!!!

~John~ hope this helps

Posted on Oct 8, 2002, 9:18 PM
from IP address 198.81.26.233

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Same model...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

At times we use B-42 for short.

Eddie

Posted on Oct 10, 2002, 2:29 PM
from IP address 66.50.74.136

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B-20 or B-22

by Brandon Twite (Login btwite61)

Hi Eddie,

I am planning on buying a .22 chinese air rifle for hunting. Which do you reccomend (not ballistics just personal preference and why)?
Thanks

Posted on Oct 7, 2002, 7:32 PM
from IP address 68.129.116.30

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Get the B-22....

by Skans (Login skans)

The B-21 and B-22 are the best quality Chinese Airguns produced, by far. In my opinion, the B-22 is better than the RWS 48 series, just because I like the heavier barrel and superior trigger mechanism over the RWS. And the B-22 is simply more powerful than the B-21. But then again, I've allways prefered .22 over .177 The wood on the stock is very nice, but the finish leaves something for you to work on - when I get a chance, I plan on stripping it and refinishing it, maybe with J.M.'s royal oil. I've seen pictures of these stocks reworked, and they can be made to look beautiful.

I have two complaints about the B-22: 1) they are dirty when assembled - you NEED to take it apart and clean out all of the metal debris, and use Eddie's treatment on it before shooting it. I had a metal shaving lodged in the seal that I had to pick out. 2) the compression chamber is nicely machined on the outside, but could be machined a little better on the inside - wish I could substitute an RWS chamber in the B-22 and I'd have the Best Springer ever made.

Posted on Oct 8, 2002, 4:48 AM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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I have a "1st-generation" B20 in .177. It's a fun little gun now...

by Steve in NC (Login pneuguy)

...but getting it there was an adventure!

There's reason to think the latest batch is better and, if that's true, then for me the choice would be obvious.

The B22 weighs half again as much as the '20 which, for me, would make all the difference in offhand shooting and toting it around in the field. The '22 is definitely the more powerful rifle (high-teens vs low-teens foot-pounds), and that is a significant difference in .22, but either is adequate for typical airgun quarry.

For me, the weight difference would make me choose the '20 any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

JMO,
Steve

Posted on Oct 8, 2002, 6:37 AM
from IP address 208.61.166.7

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Sorry about the delay in my reply...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

my phone line was down for 3 days, no phone, no internet.

Well, I have heard a few complaints about the B-20, but I have also heard they have been corrected. The B-22 is a great air gun, but it is heavy. You will have to take in mind if you are going to use it out the field or not and if you are capable of handling the extra wieght.

But there is a option, ever think about the B-18/19 break barrel? I have been testing the new version the B-19 and it is a great air gun for the price. Powerful and light, real nice for the price.

But then again, if it is extra power you want and you can handle the extra weight, go for the B-22 or the B-21.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.13 on Oct 11, 2002 3:16 PM

Posted on Oct 10, 2002, 2:04 PM
from IP address 66.50.74.136

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I need some HELP

by (Login afineman)

I started my pellet testing today, I am about half way through ( it got too cold I will finish next weekend).
I was doing a 5 shot of each type, chrony, and grouping at 100 feet, I used the Crosman 7.9 pointed as my baseline. In reviewing my paper targets this evening, I can detect patterns in the grouping.
On all to the pellets that grouped well, I noticed more variation left to right than up and down for example my Crosman 7.9 pointed grouped 1 � CTC horizontally but grouped 9/16 vertically there was only 2 types that grouped in a random manor it didn�t make a difference pointed or wad cutter RWS super mag 9.5 2.5 CTC horizontally but grouped 7/16 vertically.

I don�t consider myself a good shot BUT I did expect most pellets to group in a random manor. If I could get them to group horizontally the way they are vertically then I think these 100 foot shots would impress me.

Now I�ll finally get to the question. Is it man or machine, I am bench firing this B21, my fore arm is resting on a pillow, my left hand is grabbing the front of the stock with my thumb on top of the barrel, I am using medium force to bring the but into my shoulder. My right hand is gripping the pistol grip portion of the stock and I am using medium force here too ( into shoulder and to dampen rotation ). I am using a cheap Tasco scope that is epoxyed in place ( mount to rail and scope to mount). The distribution does not favor any one side of the POA in some cases the center point of the distribution is the POA so the scope I don�t believe is #1 cause.

TO ALL WHO READ

All thoughts are welcome, when it comes to resolving something like this � there are NO wrong ideas�.

I will eagerly await technique and gun suggestions.

Thanks ALL

AFineMan

Posted on Oct 6, 2002, 4:50 PM
from IP address 68.68.34.131

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Sounds like you are...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

pushing the trigger a little. Try taking a deep breath, concentrate on the sights, the target and very slowly squeeze the trigger. Also check your stock's screws, loose stock screws give bad accuracy.

Try holding the air gun more loosly. I find this to work well on some of my springers.

If none of the above are the factors.
Then another factor could be is the scope in it's self. It might not be creeping, but the elevation, windage tube inside the scope may have worked itself loose from the impacts of the mighty B-21. Or maybe the impacts of the air gun are too much for the scope and move that inner elevation/windage tube to the sides a little with each impact, changing it each time just a little. Remember the B-21 is known to be a scope eater.

I hope this helps.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.82.86 on Oct 6, 2002 6:25 PM

Posted on Oct 6, 2002, 6:20 PM
from IP address 66.50.82.86

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Just re-read your post...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

Take your thumb off the top of the barrel, hold the front part of the stock loose but firmly. Keep the back stock butt snug in the shoulder but hold the pistol grip loosely, take a deep breath, concentrate on the sight, target and slowly squeeze the trigger.

Could be this or the scope.

Eddie

Posted on Oct 6, 2002, 6:35 PM
from IP address 66.50.82.86

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Re: Just re-read your post...

by Greg M. (Login TennesseeLeadslinger)

Sounds like to me you are pulling the gun to either side with the trigger, it happens with firearms as well. Or maybe you can try to hold it a little harder, might help. I have a Weaver 4X32 scope on my B2-2, and I constantly find myself pulling the gun off. I keep thinking it's the scope, but it's me. Hope this helps, I've been there before

Posted on Oct 7, 2002, 4:41 PM
from IP address 207.65.99.41

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I just tuned a Gamo 220...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

Well my cousin came down with his Gamo 220 and he wanted me to give it a tune. I warned him if I opened it, he would lose the lifetime warranty. But he was really impressed with the tune I had given my B-21 in .22 cal. and wanted me to do his badly. So I went and did it. We decided to change the main spring, since his main spring was bent and worn. I used a B-18 main spring, it has one more coil than the Gamo 220 main spring. I cleaned out everything with a degreaser. I applied a good spoon of hi temp grease and a coat of moly paste on top of the grease on the main spring, I gave the main spring guide a good coat of hi temp grease. I noticed that the piston's seal had a defect, a piece of rubber was sticking out, I sanded that down. I used moly on the piston's seal and I coated the inside of the chamber with a mix of moly and slick 50. I was impressed with the hi quality of the inners of the Gamo 220, all parts were polished.

His Gamo 220 was doing a average 820 fps, when I finished we chroned it again. Now it is doing a average of 898 fps. Also that famous twang that all Gamos have is gone, the heavy coat of grease on the spring guide took care of that. It shoots real smooth now. My cousin, really likes the new effect the tune has on his Gamo. He told me that he was taking it to the firing range tomorrow to shoot it there, so that all the guys can see the difference.

Eddie

Posted on Oct 5, 2002, 1:50 PM
from IP address 66.50.73.118

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Causes of bad accuracy and their cures...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

Check it out.

http://air_guns.tripod.com/accuracy.htm

Eddie

Posted on Oct 2, 2002, 7:50 AM
from IP address 66.50.74.3

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.

by . (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

.

Posted on Oct 5, 2002, 2:04 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.63

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Looks like Daisy air guns has some problems...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

with one of their powerline models. Some lawyer is looking for people that have been injured with this air gun for filing suits agaisnt Daisy air guns.

Check it out, it states that around 15 people have been killed and about 171 injured by this model.

http://www.injuryboard.com/lvlThreeCause.cfm?varFrom=SearchResults&Cause3ID=322

Scary stuff.

Eddie

Posted on Oct 2, 2002, 7:15 PM
from IP address 66.50.82.66

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Stupid lawsuit brought by parents of stupid kids....

by Skans (Login skans)

The Daisy guns didn't do anything they weren't designed to do - they were misused by kids who's parents didn't properly supervise them and failed to teach them proper firearms safety. The kids should have known better. When I was a child, me and all of my friends, knew better than to point a bb gun or ANY GUN at a person's head at point blank range, whether loaded or not, and shoot it. The kids who did this were screwing around and should have known better.

The parents of the children who pointed a weapon at another child should be the ones being sued, not Daisy. How do you think the majority of reasonable people would answer these questions?

1)If I hand the keys to my riding lawnmower over to a 10 year old kid and he decides to place a 6mo old baby on the ground and "mow him over", who's responsible?

2) If my child pours gasoline in a cup and hands it to another child to drink, should Exxon be sued for this?

3) If a 10 year old kid learns how to mix up some pool chemicals and other household items, while surfing the net - on a computer paid for by his parents and from an internet service paid for by his parents, to make a bomb and blows up the neighbor's house - should the pool cleaning supply store be responsible?

4) If a 9 year old child becomes angry with his 11 year old friend, picks up a hammer and hurls it at the 11 year old's skull, should the hammer manufacturer be held responsible for the 11 year old becoming a quadroplegic? What if it was a Brick instead of a hammer? Or a naturally occuring rock?

Kids do stupid things, sometimes their actions might be excusable, most of the times actions like the ones I mention above are inexcusable. Who is responsible? The person who committed the wrongful act is primarily responsible, of course. Personally, I believe that children over the age of 8 should be held accountable for deviant behaivior. There are bad children in this world, and just because they are children is no excuse for harming and killing others - in 10 short years a 9 year old will be 19 - 10 years is not a very long time.

Parents are responsible for the idiotic actions of their kids up to the time they turn 18. I see them trying to shirk this responsibility by blaming manufacturers of "dangerous" instruments, instead of themselves and their children.

If a person doesn't want the liability associated with having potentially harmful items, then don't buy them. If a person doesn't want the liability associated with having a bad child, then don't make them. Lets stop blaming innocent people for our own mistakes.

Posted on Oct 3, 2002, 5:06 AM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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I agree with you...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

it is not the gun that kills it is the action of the person using it.

Our kitchens are full of knives, parents control those so they should control and teach the proper use of a gun, be it a bb gun or a shotgun.

Down here where I live you have to be 18 years of age to buy a air gun. So the adult that buys the air gun is responable of the air gun.

Air guns were outlawed/banned for 18 years due to a kid shooting another kid with a pellet gun in the chest, the pellet went thru the heart. Last year the law changed and went back to the way it was.

I just hope all this negative news doesn't change things again.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.218 on Oct 3, 2002 5:38 AM

Posted on Oct 3, 2002, 5:32 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.218

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True..

by Anonymous (Login Ls6Driver)

Tragic story but, stupid kids, stupid parents and to many lawyers working for percentage on the claim. Then anything can happend.

Posted on Oct 3, 2002, 6:01 AM
from IP address 193.14.203.164

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In My Opinion

by Brent (Login afineman)

This is another case in point �Air guns are NOT toys�. What �responsible� gun owner would EVER point at something, and then pull the trigger at something they didn�t intend to kill. The statement � I didn�t know it was loaded� is just a copout / excuse for an irresponsible gun owner, regardless, air powered or powder powered.

As for the case they exampled, it is a tragedy what happened, my heart goes out to the entire family. Could it of been avoided, yes.

This starts with the adult (assumed) gift giver, why did they give an air rifle to a minor, what the adult assumed the minor would be safer with an air rifle. This person needed to be educated about air guns, this person needed to know that if used improperly, an air gun is as dangerous any powder gun.

The guardian of this minor needed to teach the minor how to be a responsible gun owner, it is the responsibility of the guardian NOT to allow a minor unsupervised, unrestricted access to a deadly weapon, unless that minor has been properly educated and is responsible.

The minor should have NEVER allowed anyone (who is not properly trained) to handle his or her gun.

This horrible tragedy could have been avoided, but it wasn�t. In the minds of the grieving family members, they need to blame someone or something, they chose the to blame the air rifle.

Air guns are not toys! Air guns can kill an adult! Air guns need to be treated with the same respect as ANY gun! Never and I mean NEVER pull a trigger and ASSUME the gun will not fire.

My feelings

AFineMan

Posted on Oct 3, 2002, 5:56 AM
from IP address 208.19.99.10

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I for one supervise my kids...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

every time I let them use their Buck BB gun, only 350 fps. They are only 10 and 8 years old, they don't know better so they have to be supervised. I keep their Buck bb gun unloaded and out of reach, I keep the bbs apart under key. They can only use it when I let them and I stay there with them to insure they pratice safe shooting.

What's more I have a 19 year old step son (his father died when he was 3 years old) that is in 3rd year of University studying to be a school teacher, that has shown me that he is irresponable, doesn't listen. He has been asking me for a pellet air gun for about 2 years now as a Christmas or birthday present. Since I don't trust him because he is irresponable I haven't given him one. Every time I give him advice, he does the opposite. This kid is capable of shooting a person just for the hell of it, or doing something wrong with the air gun, making problems for me and my wife. His way of talking tells me everything, he saids things like, he wants to carry it in his car and if anybody fools with him he is going to shoot them, another thing he says, well then give me one of the daggers for carrying it in my car. Which means if I give him one, he will be arrested for either threating a person, carrying a weapon in his car or shooting a person or for destorying private property and guess who will have to foot the bill for a defense lawyer.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.218 on Oct 3, 2002 8:05 AM

Posted on Oct 3, 2002, 7:17 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.218

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You are wise not to provide this young man....

by Skans (Login skans)

with an airgun, or anyother weapon for that matter. Not that he can't get one through other means, but you don't need to be the person providing it to him. I am curious, why you would divulge this information on a public forum - aren't you concerned that your stepson might read your message? Or even in this day and age that this information might incriminate him in some way?

Your stepson is not that much different than many other teenagers, including myself at one time - he just seems to be more vocal about his intentions. I was taught at a young age how to use firearms, but not by my parents, unfortunately. I learned in camp, and later on from a neighbor and an uncle. My parents were somewhat anti-gun, yet I did turn out to be a responsible gun owner. Eventhough my parents were against me having a bb gun, I guess I begged long enough and they bought a crossman pistol (fake revolver) for my 14th birthday - not exactly the one I wanted, but I enjoyed it for a couple of years - would have been nicer if my dad would have taken an interest in teaching me about firearms.

A couple of years later I saved up my money and bought a crossman multi-pump rifle - don't remember the name, but it was all metal and wood, with a beautiful gold wash on the receiver - very nice looking rifle, for the time.

Then I wanted a real gun - and I was able to purchase one, and 100 rounds, from someone at age 16, it was a knock-off of a 38 snub nose. At about the same time I was able to purchase a S&W Co2 pellet gun from a department store I worked in. The 38 was legal, but the purchase obviously was not. My parents certainly did not know about this (this was over 20 years ago). Fortunately, I was truly a responsible kid, knew the dangers of firearms and how to care for them, and I did not cary the thing around with me. I fired it once or twice out in the woods, but for the most part I just kept it hidden in a safe location. I later took it with me when I went to college, where I also just tucked it away in a safe location, and would shoot it at a police academy range.

My point to sharing my experience with you is that kids can and will get guns if they want them bad enough. If you have a child who expresses an interest in guns early on, whether you like guns or hate guns, you NEED to recognize your kid's interest and direct it in a positive manner. It would have been much better if my parents had directed me to engage in shooting competitions rather than turning a blind eye to my interest. I'm just lucky that I was a pretty happy kid who didn't go looking for trouble.

Posted on Oct 3, 2002, 10:54 AM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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Well, let me put it this way...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

what I said here is only a drop in a bucket, if I were to tell you all how he really is, you all would run for cover. About him reading this, I really doubt it, he is too busy hanging out with his gang all night long and doesn't like computers or internet. And if he does read this, well this is nothing new, me and my wife call his attention everyday for being irresponable, back talking and doing crazy things.

What I was trying to do was make a point. We are responable for our childern's acts and if they are very young they need guideness/supervision. And even if they are young adults, but are reckless and irresponable we shouldn't even think of giving them any type of weapon.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.82.216 on Oct 3, 2002 5:21 PM

Posted on Oct 3, 2002, 5:08 PM
from IP address 66.50.82.216

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I just bought a cool gun

by (Login afineman)

I don�t want anyone to think I am defecting BUT, I just bought a cheap ( $49.99 at Kmart) CO2 powered Crosman (1077), this is a 12 shot per clip less than 4 pound gun.
My B 21 ( my elephant gun Hee Hee Hee ) is good from about 15 yards to 40 yards, my pistol is good to about 10 yards. I felt I was missing an intermediate gun 10 to 20 yards.
I did some research and did not find a cheap ( the KEY TERM) multi shot non pumping/cocking gun. This gun is good for about 30 shots on a cartridge and seems to be quit accurate ( I put a $9.99 scope ( Daisy 4X15) from Walmart). This gun is almost ALL plastic BUT when I checked the Crosman forum, I found most people had good things to say about the gun ( I haven�t owned it long enough to have an option yet).

Anyways I�m getting my sample pellet pack Monday ( checked UPS tracking #), so next weekend I be doing a 40 pellet type test in my B21 grouping, FPS and FPE.

Shoot bang bang all ( a term my wife uses when I get out one of my guns)

AFineMan

This message has been edited by afineman from IP address 68.68.34.131 on Sep 27, 2002 7:40 PM

Posted on Sep 27, 2002, 7:38 PM
from IP address 68.68.34.131

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Bulk it!!!! well worth the cost......

by ^tg^ (Login t.g.)

bulking will give you gobs and gobs of consistant shots and it also seems to give it a few more fps.....mine was chronied at 650fps with 7.9 gr Crosman Preimers on a 70 degree afternoon....Ours is very accurate out to 30 yards, the kids can hit things at that range I cant see!!!....you get used to the trigger and it gets better with age...the synthetic stock is very durable....we get 36-60 shots per 12 gram cartridge depending on the temps, bulking it will save you lots of money in the long run....about $3 for a 7 oz bulk fill that will give you well over 500 consistant shots, or about $12 for a 25 pack of 12 grammers....get some extra clips and magazines and have a ball........its way more accurate than my Hercules XS-B7

"If you like it, who gives a ratsass what anybody else thinks"
^tg^

Posted on Sep 28, 2002, 4:34 AM
from IP address 209.23.17.82

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Bulk it?

by (Login 144man)

Very interested in bulk CO2 conversions. Where did you get the parts? How much $? Etc. I have a Sheridan Model E .20 pistol which I would like to convert to a belt-mounted bulk tank with a hose.

Posted on Oct 2, 2002, 6:49 AM
from IP address 208.22.33.222

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Brent...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

I have a old Crosman CO2 air gun stuck in a closet that I haven't touch in years. I bought that rifle about 20 years ago it has a real wood stock. It is one of those repeater models that looks like a shot gun. It is a .22 cal., but I find it to be to low powered for my liking. Maybe one day I will take it out of the closet and try it again.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.123 on Sep 28, 2002 5:29 AM

Posted on Sep 28, 2002, 5:25 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.123

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Spent the day with new gun

by (Login afineman)

I took the gun back for an exchange, it was unpredictable (accuracy). The replacement guns works VERY well I get a half dollar size 12 shot grouping at 20 yards.

Eddie, I don�t believe this is the same gun see ^TG^�s picture, I have the same gun.

^TG^ I read one of your postings about the 1077 on the crosman forum and how accurate you said it was. It was your posting and some others that made me search out this gun. TG where did you get the parts for the bulk kit? Could you e-mail the details? THANKS

Well the B21 the Crosman 1077 and the Crosman 357 are all resting by the sliding glass door awaiting the next vermin that dares to enter the yard.
Is it me or has this happened to others, now that I have the tools to rid my yard of vermin, they DON�T show up, they were prancing around the yard while I only had powder fueled guns, now that I have added air powered gun to my collection they don�t show up.

AFineMan

Posted on Sep 28, 2002, 3:07 PM
from IP address 68.68.34.131

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I know it isn't the same gun...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

the model I have isn't made any more. It cocks like a pump shot gun, it is a .22 cal and uses 8 shot cartridges.

Eddie

Posted on Sep 28, 2002, 4:53 PM
from IP address 66.50.82.3

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Hiding vermin?

by Gary D. Mackey (Login GMACK1)

Oh, the lil' buggers are there, alright. They come out to party when you stop watching for them and go mess around on your computer.

Happy Verminating, Brent.

Posted on Sep 29, 2002, 9:33 AM
from IP address 207.218.230.171

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Yeah, the fish do the same to me...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

every time I am busy they decide to bite and steal my bait.

Eddie

Posted on Sep 29, 2002, 10:15 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.46

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Thanks

by Greg (Login TennesseeLeadslinger)

Thanks Eddie, I'll try that.

Posted on Sep 30, 2002, 5:12 PM
from IP address 207.65.99.138

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Your welcome. nt.

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

Eddie

Posted on Sep 30, 2002, 6:08 PM
from IP address 66.50.73.28

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B2-2 accuracy

by (Login TennesseeLeadslinger)

Hey guys, just thought I'd let you know that my B2-2 is fairly accurate, if the trigger was lighter (better) it would group better at longer yardages. I was able to shoot a 5 shot group at 10yds of 1/2 inch. But not all the time, the gun seems to be inconsistent in it's power. And because of it's stiff trigger I pulled a lot of shots off to the left and right. Still, I did kill a squirrel from approx. 15 yds today, shot him just behind the ear! So I guess that makes it a close range gun, 'cause I shot one earlier at approx. 25 yds, heard the pellet hit, and watched it run off LOL!!

Posted on Sep 29, 2002, 4:41 PM
from IP address 207.65.110.231

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Well Greg there ain't much...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

you can do about that B-2-2's trigger pull, it is just a plain simply trigger device that catches the piston, that is why it has such a hard trigger pull.

You could try some Slick 50 on it, that could help, just put about 4 to 5 drops of Slick 50 inside the trigger's assembly and let the air gun sit upside down for a while so that the lube gets to the piston's catch.

Eddie

Posted on Sep 30, 2002, 10:06 AM
from IP address 66.50.74.6

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P.S.

by Greg (Login TennesseeLeadslinger)

For those who want to know I was using Crosman Copperhead 7.9g pointed pellets (.177) and shooting the squirrel off-hand, shot the groups off sandbags.

Posted on Sep 29, 2002, 4:50 PM
from IP address 207.65.110.231

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Sound Suppressor...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

Well that QB-78 I was fixing up sounded to loud when I shot it. So I decided to make up a little sound suppressor out of a empty CO2 cartridge. I took my grinder and grinded both ends till I made the right sized holes. I made one hole just big enough to fit over the barrel and the other hole smaller, so that the front part would contain/suppress the sound a little. I primed and painted the cartridge gloss black with spray paint. I used two pieces of double side tape (the kind used for hanging small framed photos on the wall) and put them inside and stuck the cartridge (now sound suppressor) half way up the cartridge on the barrel, leaving half the cartridge empty for suppressing the sound. Believe it or not, it does muffle the sound a little and it looks cool. See for your selves.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.82.3 on Sep 28, 2002 5:56 PM
This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.82.3 on Sep 28, 2002 4:54 PM

Posted on Sep 28, 2002, 4:34 PM
from IP address 66.50.82.3

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I got the parts

by John (Login B4-2er)

Eddie, Hey i got the 2 B4-2 seals and the main spring they fit 100% but next week i am gone to buy a new B4-2 in .177 cal then i will have a gun with lot's of parts

~John~

Posted on Sep 28, 2002, 8:24 AM
from IP address 198.81.16.172

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Good, thanks for...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

letting me know.

Eddie

Posted on Sep 28, 2002, 9:40 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.85

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A QB-78 with a different touch...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

Check out this QB-78, .177 cal. I fixed up for a special client and I spray painted it gloss black. The scope is a 3x9x32 Simmons scope, I also took it apart and jack up the spring on the gas release hammer for extra power.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.123 on Sep 28, 2002 8:18 AM
This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.123 on Sep 28, 2002 8:18 AM

Posted on Sep 28, 2002, 7:35 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.123

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You know guys...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

I was checking out some air gun sites from Spain, they are in Spanish, for those of you who can read Spanish I put a link on my link page to that site. I was surprised by the low ratings of the fps of their Gamo models, according to them the Gamo Hunter only gives 567 fps. Makes me wonder if Gamo makes two models, one more powerful for the states and another model for Spain, maybe they have a air gun law there that only allows air guns to be under 600 fps like in Canada. I have tested my cousin's Gamo Hunter 220 and it gives a good 844 fps.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.123 on Sep 28, 2002 5:37 AM

Posted on Sep 28, 2002, 5:36 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.123

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XS B-18 vs. the Gamo 220...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

I have compared and tested both air guns at the same time, check it out.

http://air_guns.tripod.com/b18vs220.htm

Eddie

Posted on Sep 26, 2002, 5:34 PM
from IP address 66.50.82.39

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Thanks to all

by (Login TennesseeLeadslinger)

I'm a "newbie" when it comes to airguns, and this forum has helped me a lot! I have 2 of the "bottom of the barrel" springers, Industry B2-2 .177 and an Industry B3-2 .22, got them both at a local Discount Tool store. For what I paid for them I could've gotten a good gun online, but I didn't know at the time and besides, ya gotta start somewhere. As for the thanks, I looked at all of the forum's pages and got all the info I needed to make my guns better. The B2-2 was the worst of the two as far as accuracy goes until I took the pivot bolt out and cleaned it, put some Valvoline semi synthetic moly grease {very lightly} on the shank, and some blue Locktite on the threads. I haven't target shot it yet, been raining for a few days, but with an OLD Weaver Challenger 4X32 scope I was able to hit small finches at approximately 20yds leaning against a wall. I also would like to say that Eddie's web site was a help to me as well, I did the Slick 50 treatment to the B2-2 and I can tell it shoots harder and smoother. I haven't gotten it fully broken in yet, but I think it will be a good small bird killer/plinker. Sorry to ramble on like this, but I would once again like to say Thanks to all who post on the forum. Greg

Posted on Sep 22, 2002, 7:28 PM
from IP address 207.65.110.47

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Welcome aboard Greg...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

I am glad you are enjoying the forum.

Eddie

Posted on Sep 23, 2002, 1:52 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.4

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Please, let the finches live! .....

by (Login crider)

These are song birds. In many areas they are protected by law (don't know where you live.) Furthermore, If you will not take this advice and check your local laws, please don't share such information on public forums. This is just more fuel for every anti - whatever around.

Enjoy your airguns but please, don't shoot the finches.

JMO

Geron

Posted on Sep 25, 2002, 4:39 AM
from IP address 66.190.169.231

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The coolest shot I have EVER made

by (Login afineman)

I was using my CO2 pistol, I had 80 shots in to it, I was debating whether to change the cartridge and shoot some more, WHEN a bee came in to the camper I have in my back yard ( I smoke my cigar and drink beer here ).

I don�t like bees ( it�s a childhood thing), I thought I would just shoot it BUT with WHAT ( I didn�t want a pellet bouncing around my camper), nor did I want to change the CO2 cartridge.

I made a spitball out of a part of paper napkin, I stuffed the spitball in to the barrel, I shot ( on the old and spent cartridge) and SPLAT, WOW not only did I get the bee but the force split it in half, this was about a 4 foot shot BUT it was SO COOL.
Over the years I have shot many thing using a pellet gun BUT this is the only time I took pictures ( see below),

Well anyways this is what I think ( as of now) is the coolest shot I ever made. I hope this brings a smile to your face the way it does mine.

Happy hunting

AFineMan

Posted on Sep 21, 2002, 3:12 PM
from IP address 68.68.34.131

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That is /so/ cool!!

by Gary D. Mackey (Login GMACK1)

I wonder if the bee was buzzing around when you blew him away? That would've made the shot even cooler!
Who needs Raid? Brent kills 'em deader.

Posted on Sep 22, 2002, 8:14 AM
from IP address 207.218.205.241

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Chrony Alternative

by (Login afineman)

Hi All

Here we go again :-}.
When I first got my gun ( A B21) I used my laptop and a microphone ( to compare shot speeds) of my new B21 and my old 10 pump gun. I did this because, I thought the delta difference should be less ( for the B 21) but it wasn�t, I repaired the problem with the B21 then bought a Chrony ( I knew I would be doing a lot of testing). I decided not to continue with the sound speed measurements because I was buying a Chrony and thought there may be too many variables, and this data may not be reliable.
In reading a LOT of postings, I realized the frustration of many people ( judging speed) and thought they may be able to use a sound recording method to evaluate there modifications. I said to my self �Self� How could you use a simple sound recording device to measure muzzle velocity. And self said � Hee Hee Hee� if you could get sound recording software cable of measuring to the 1 mil sec range, and if you were willing to calculate what the speed of sound in your area, then you could use the sound speed to evaluate you modifications.

This weekend I was planning to test 40 pellet types in my gun, muzzle velocity, and grouping @ 30 yards. BUT the sample kit has not arrived yet. I wanted to do some ( ANY ) testing this weekend so I decided to do some sound speed testing.

I have, already done some calculations. What I have found is that for a particular pellet type is that: the deceleration of a pellet type is limner regardless of muzzle velocity ie. A .177 shot at ether 700 FPS or 1000 has the same percentage FPS loss (I used �Air Gun 7.5.1� for the velocity table).

I have done a few simulations all seem to work. I will over the weekend work on real testing ( real muzzle velocity vs. assumed velocity).

I will post later this weekend the results.

I will be using a B21, a Chrosman 177 7.9 gr. pointed pellet, at 65 feet ( speed of sound @ that time of day @ that temperature @ that humidity was 1130 FPS ( I used one of the NASA on line caculators)) .

RESULTS

I down loaded Mystick Audio Edit Deluxe from WWW.Download.com ( a 15 day trial version). This software package takes about 2 hours to learn ( for this function).

I used my camcorder to record the shot and echo ( placed next to the muzzle )

I took 10 shots using the Crossman 7.9 pointed pellet and 10 shots using the Crosman 10.5 domed pellet. I Chronyed and recorded each shot.

I then transferred the audio from the camcorder to the computer. I opened the audio file in the Mystick software.

It was tough to get use to separating shot from echo( software learning curve), but it can be done. Once I felt comfortable with the shot to echo separation I then subtracted 50 milliseconds ( speed of sound = 1130. target was 65 feet away from recording microphone. SSOO sound took .050 sec to go from target to mic.).

After subtracting the .050 sec, and took the remaining time used basic math and I got an average 909 FPS for the 7.9 gr Crossman pellets. Because I was using a Chrony at the same time, I knew what the error was. It was 5% @ 65 feet, Chrony averaged 948 FPS.

Conclusion

If you are looking to measure the increased ( or decreased) muzzle velocity of a modification then, a simple recording device capable of comparing before and after millisecond differences will do.
If you would like to know �approximately� what the muzzle velocity is then you will need to find out what the speed of sound is for that time of day, use a good sound recording program, and remember to subtract the time delay of the echo.
If you are willing to do this then you will be able to calculate muzzle velocity. This MAY have a +/- 10 % error ( if your guns shoots 900FPS then it means 810 to 990 FPS), it ALL depends how willing you are to be as accurate as possible and take all the time needed to learn the software you chose.

As always

Happy Plinking

AFineMan

Posted on Sep 20, 2002, 9:29 PM
from IP address 68.68.34.131

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Great stuff (as usual), Brent! I'm impressed. Meanwhile, I wonder...

by Steve in NC (Login pneuguy)

...if you've considered placing the microphone (camcorder?) midway between muzzle and target so that the speed of sound issue cancels out?

I.e., so that the propagation delay of the sound of the muzzle blast to the microphone subtracts as much time from the total pellet time of flight as the propagation delay of the target impact adds to it? If the distances are the same then the delay times will also be the same regardless of the speed of sound.

Also -- would you be interested in some math that converts the change of time of flight as a function of distance to target into ballistic coefficient?

I'd be happy to email you a short article I had published on the subject if you'd like.

Cheers and thanks for the fun read,
Steve

Posted on Sep 20, 2002, 9:43 PM
from IP address 208.61.134.16

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Yes I did

by (Login afineman)

I thought of placing the microphone half the distance, and I also thought of using 2 microphones. Doing ether will increase the accuracy of your reading. I didn�t do ether because I wanted to create a model out of equipment everyone may have on hand.
I used a camcorder because it is more likely a person would have a camcorder than a laptop with a microphone. I didn�t use a cassette recorder because the audio circuit doesn�t have the auto gain the way a modern camcorder does, and most people don�t have 2 microphones kicking around with many feet or shielded audio cable( I do but I�m sure you guys know by now I�m a little STRANGE) . There were 2 reasons I didn�t place the camcorder half way, 1: there was a threat of rain and I didn�t want the camcorder to get wet ( I was shooting from my 3 season room), 2: I wanted to be able to pause the recording with out having to get up off my fat ???.

My goal here was to provide a quick and cheap ( love those free online calculators and those free downloads) way for a person to approximately judge their FPS. If a person is going to do many tests then buy a Chrony, but if you believe your seal is bad and want to test before and after the seal change then this may be the method for you.

YYEESS Steve e-mail me and send me the math [email protected]

Happy Plinking All

AfineMan

Posted on Sep 21, 2002, 8:14 AM
from IP address 208.19.99.10

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Gotcha. Good reasons... A comment on audio cassette recorders...

by Steve in NC (Login pneuguy)

...I've never seen one that DIDN'T have ALC (automatic level control) on record -- even the super-cheapies and even very old ones.

I happen to be sort of an authority on the subject because many years ago I used them as el cheapo data recorders.

But an even better reason for using a camcorder just as you did is that the tape speed is MUCH MUCH more accurately controlled in a video rather than an audio recorder.

I already emailed you the link. There's an obvious typo (misplaced parens) in the MV back-extrapolation formula. Should be:

MV = (NR / tn) (e^(near / NR) - 1)

This correct formula appears in the program listing.

Cheers,
Steve

Posted on Sep 21, 2002, 8:57 AM
from IP address 208.61.71.137

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Very interesting...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

nice job.

Eddie

Posted on Sep 21, 2002, 5:09 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.41

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Actually, Brent, your MV measurement was MUCH more accurate than you said...

by Steve in NC (Login pneuguy)

...you just forgot to correct for the velocity loss of the pellet due to air resistance over the 65 feet.

Taking a BC of .028 for the Crosman pointed * and plugging it into my formula:

MV = (NR / tn) (e^(near / NR) - 1)

...you get 954fps -- less than 0.7% off the chrony reading. MV will vary from shot to shot more than that!

In other news .. What'd you think of my little article?

Nifty.
Steve

* Some pellet BCs:

http://www.xmission.com/~hasutton/bcdata.html

This message has been edited by pneuguy from IP address 208.61.132.93 on Sep 21, 2002 3:16 PM
This message has been edited by pneuguy from IP address 208.61.132.93 on Sep 21, 2002 3:10 PM

Posted on Sep 21, 2002, 3:06 PM
from IP address 208.61.132.93

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I did reread

by (Login afineman)

Howdy Steve

Yes I did reread you article (WOULD YOU believe, I have read this before) I read you article back in May because ( prior to getting the gun) I was looking to see if anyone else had used sound to determine MV.

From you article and others, I determined I could accurately measure MV and BC with sound ( regardless of pellet type), this would require multiple shots at varying distances but it could be done.

I bought a Chrony because I was LAZY, I knew I had all the tools I needed to measure muzzle velocity, drag coefficient (of any pellet) and TOF ( time of flight).

I also know just how accurate my speed measurement was BUT!!! I was anal in ensuring the proper separation of the shot to impact echo. I didn�t want to mislead anyone by saying you can have a +/- 2% accuracy using this method.

Steve, my experience with cassette recorders was NOT good I always thought AGC ( Auto Gain Control ) was NOT responsive enough in a cassette recorder.

Anyways, Have I seen you in a Nova (PBS) program about whales ???? the last name DOES sound familiar.

As Always

AFineman

Posted on Sep 21, 2002, 4:11 PM
from IP address 68.68.34.131

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Sent wrong parts

by John (Login B4-2er)

Eddie u sent me the seal they are both to small and my gun will not cock? dose any one know how to help me the spring is comprested but will not fire the triger is not hard like to fire

~John~

Posted on Sep 20, 2002, 2:53 PM
from IP address 198.81.17.37

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John those are the parts...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

I checked them personaly. It seems you did not load the spring guide properly on the main spring when you recompressed the spring inside the air gun. Also it could be that you released the trigger catch before time.

When you recompressed the main spring with the guide you must make sure that everthing is in-lined. Go back to my page on my site and follow the instructions again, but this time make sure everything is in-lined. Also make sure the piston's catch is in-line with the trigger's assembly.

I hope you are using a spring compressor for this, it is the only way you can in-line the main spring and the spring guide to insure the main spring (slowly) and the spring guide is properly seated.

Those are the seals, they are made of leather and are made to absorb oil. Once oiled or treated they seal well. These are factory parts, made by Xisico and they are made for the B-4-2, so they can't be too small. Did you use all 3 leather washers inside the leather cup?

I sent you 2 seals, one wider than the other. They should fit tight, one tigher than the other. I hope you didn't sand or hone the inside of the pressure chamber. THIS is a "No, No" in my book. And I do NOT have replacment pressure chambers.
Hopefully you did not do this. (very hard to get).

Remember study the page first, to see what mistake you may have made. Any thing out of the normal instructions will not work. There is no fast way of doing this, nor is there any short cuts. It is done by the rules by the instructions or it doesn't work.

Do not compare the old seal with the new seal, the old leather seal will appear to be bigger due to wear and lube.

It sounds like either your trigger engagment was wrong when you installed the parts or the spring guide was not properly seat the spring guide with the main spring. Some simply over view on your part.

Try again, good luck and let me know how things go.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.41 on Sep 21, 2002 5:06 AM
This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.93.219 on Sep 20, 2002 7:59 PM

Posted on Sep 20, 2002, 7:50 PM
from IP address 66.50.93.219

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John be careful...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

a jamed cocked air gun is dangerous. First try cocking it agian with a a little more impact force using the cocking lever a couple of times and try firing it at a safe place.

Let me know if this works.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.93.219 on Sep 20, 2002 8:06 PM

Posted on Sep 20, 2002, 8:05 PM
from IP address 66.50.93.219

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Frist try recocking...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

hopefully, the parts will settle and the air gun will shoot safetly.

I have had a few clients bring in spring piston air guns that they said would not fire, cocked and jamed. 70% of the cases, was the the air was not properly cocked, it was cocked only half way. A jolting recocking using the cocking lever, enagages the trigger device in it's place. Using a safe shooting target try shooting the air gun.

John if you can't handle this by your self, get somebody to help you. I don't want you to get harmed nor do I want you to harm anybody.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.93.219 on Sep 20, 2002 8:15 PM

Posted on Sep 20, 2002, 8:13 PM
from IP address 66.50.93.219

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I am

by John (Login B4-2er)

Gone to Junk my B42 nad get a new B42 in .177 cuz i got parts for it to last for a life time the one part in the trigger is worn out so it will not work

~John~

Posted on Sep 21, 2002, 1:49 PM
from IP address 198.81.16.58

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What is the most powerful, commercially available...

by Skans (Login skans)

Spring gun in .177 and .22? The Gamo Hunter 1250 claims velocities in excess of 1250 fps - has anyone actually chronographed this? Is it really that much more powerful than the better quality chinese guns? IF the Gamo 1250 approaches this velocity, what is unique about this gun that allows it to get 200 fps more than most other magnum spring guns?

Posted on Sep 18, 2002, 12:41 PM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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It's just

by Joh (Login B4-2er)

A bigger Main spring All the guts are bigger in the gun the gamo is almost a .22 rifle

~John~

Posted on Sep 18, 2002, 1:53 PM
from IP address 198.81.16.189

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Here's a hint -- it's NOT made by GAMO!

by Steve in NC (Login pneuguy)

The JW80 is certainly a contender -- check out the spec's here (which, by the way, aren't absurdly inflated as the Gamo #s are).

http://www.webdev100.fsnet.co.uk/index.html

Another possible answer to your question is the Beeman (Theoben actually) Dual Magnum.

http://www.straightshooters.com/beeman/bddualmag.html

HTH,
Steve

Posted on Sep 18, 2002, 2:49 PM
from IP address 208.61.166.219

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Yes, the Wiscombe springers are works of art...

by Skans (Login skans)

But their most powerful gun is 1175 fps in .177. I suppose if Gamo is inflated, then we need to readjust our thinking.

Posted on Sep 18, 2002, 3:53 PM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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I read about a chrony test done...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

on the Gamo 1250 in .177 cal. done by a gun magazine, it gave around 1175 fps. after it settled, which is pretty good. John was right about this one, the big power plant of the Gamo 1250 is what gives it, it's extra power. I have also read that any air gun that produces speeds over 1110 fps, or better said that breaks the sound barrier, loses accuracy. According to what I read, the shock waves produced by breaking the sound barrier causes the light pellet to wobble, making it lose accuracy.

The speeds the Gamo 1250 produce (1175 fps. in .177 cal.) will make it a very loud air gun. This thing should break the sound barrier everytime you shoot it, creating a loud supersonic sound/crack noise. I guess that would be cool to show off to your friends out in the woods. But I am sure your neighbors won't like it and you would need ear protection for shooting indoors.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.1 on Sep 20, 2002 3:53 AM

Posted on Sep 20, 2002, 3:47 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.1

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So, from what I can gather, the Gamo 1250 is likely...

by Skans (Login skans)

the most powerful springer on the market. The one thing I particularly do not like about it is the fact that it is a break-barrel - too bad they don't make it in a side-cocker.

I've never inspected the internals of the Gamo, but I do believe they have a plastic trigger guard and some other plastic parts, which I don't like. Perhaps I'm spoiled, I was really impressed with the quality of the B-22 when I took it apart - now I expect all airguns priced over $150 to have milled steel trigger assemblys and parts.

Posted on Sep 20, 2002, 5:42 AM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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If I remember right...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

the report I read about the Gamo 1250 said it comes with a metal trigger guard. It is their only model that comes with a metal trigger guard. I guess they had to use metal on this model due to the shock/vibrations it's power plant creates. I don't believe it be the most powerful air gun in the world, but it is the most powerful model that Gamo makes.

Eddie

Posted on Sep 20, 2002, 6:24 AM
from IP address 66.50.74.8

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Also, RWS makes...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

a model that is rated at 1250 fps. It is the Model 350 Magnum Rifle. But it is also a break barrel, but it should be better quality and only costs a few dollars more. Speaking of RWS, they came out with a new budget model rated at 1000 fps, a break barrel .177 cal., the Model 320, looks cool, looks a little like the R6 style air gun with a barrel handle. I saw this model in my new Cabela's Master Catalog Fall 2002 Edition II.

Eddie

Posted on Sep 20, 2002, 6:33 AM
from IP address 66.50.74.8

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What Happened to

by Jim (Login 144man)

the Chinese only airgun forum? I've had it on my browser's favorite list for some time now, and it always worked fine. Today, I click on it and it says the forum doesn't exist or I typed the wrong URL. Is it gone or is my favorites list corrupt. Sorry, don't mean to turn this into a computer forum.

Posted on Sep 19, 2002, 1:14 PM
from IP address 208.22.33.222

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It's still there...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

try this link.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/65358

Eddie

Posted on Sep 19, 2002, 2:00 PM
from IP address 66.50.74.252

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Eddie

by John (Login B4-2er)

Hey, I have you got my order for the B42 parts? ~John~

This message has been edited by B4-2er from IP address 198.81.17.176 on Sep 15, 2002 6:13 PM

Posted on Sep 15, 2002, 5:39 PM
from IP address 198.81.16.172

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Tomorrow I will check...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

the Post Office is close on Sundays.

Eddie

Posted on Sep 15, 2002, 6:38 PM
from IP address 66.50.73.228

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Eddie did you see if u got it to day?

by John (Login B4-2er)

~John~

Posted on Sep 16, 2002, 2:20 PM
from IP address 198.81.17.176

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I went this morning...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

to the Post Office and it wasn't there. I will check tomorrow again.

Don't worry I will let you know when I get it.

Eddie

Posted on Sep 16, 2002, 3:33 PM
from IP address 66.50.82.92

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I sent your order out this afternoon...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

I put your order in the trunk of my car yesterday to have it on hand when your check came. I went to the post office this morning and nothing, so I went again in the afternoon and it was there. Since I had your order in the trunk of my car I sent it out as soon as I got it. I sent it 1st class mail and the postal lady said it would take 3 to 4 working days to get to you. Let me know when you get it.

Enjoy.

Eddie

Posted on Sep 17, 2002, 3:35 PM
from IP address 66.50.82.30

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Sweet spot?

by (Login gdotts)

I've got a B21, converted a tripod for assistance in benchrest target shooting instead of a bipod configuration. I didn't connect gun to tripod, to allow the gun gyrate on its own after firing. Other posts have talked about a sweet spot for the gunrest. My question is that sweet spot just the balance of the gun up/down on a pivot point? Seems to me the exact balance point would be to a little too wobbly for target shooting. Need advice.

Posted on Sep 12, 2002, 5:27 AM
from IP address 208.191.179.92

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Most people when they say...(Edited)

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

a sweet spot, they refer to a spot on the rifle's stock where you place the cheek of your face. A known sweet spot (a comfortable spot on your stock for resting your cheek) on your rifle's stock is used to insure that everytime you look down your sights your head is in the same place and postion to insure the same sight in-linement/accuracy every shot.

When people refer to a sweet spot on a bench rest or tripod. They refer to a spot on the front of the stock where the rifle is more stable. Not where the air gun is balance, it is where they feel comfortable with the rifle and the rifle is stable.

Take in mind that a air gun shot on top of a hard surface will bounce and cause bad accuracy, use your hand under your sweet spot on the front of the air gun to cushion the back and front impact and the vibrations.

I have a tripod I use, I glued a piece of foam rubber from a foam rubber beer cooler to the top of the tripod to cushion the air guns vibrations. I took a piece of PVC pipe, foam rubber glued inside with contact glue and screwed it to my old camera's tripod. Works great

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.161 on Sep 12, 2002 9:20 AM

Posted on Sep 12, 2002, 8:58 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.161

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Tripod

by gdotts (Login gdotts)

Eddie, thank you for the response. As you know the B21 is a very heavy gun, so anything to make shooting easier and more accurate is a big help. My tripod setup is 3/4" thick keyboard wrist pad epoxied on to a aluminimum sheet 2 1/2"x 4"x1/8" thick and attached to the tripod, with side pads epoxied on the base pad, the width of the stock for sideways stability. I don't necessarily like to use the palm of the hand under the front of the stock. Would prefer to let the guns front stock rest totally on the tripod. I may for the next version use a gel type keyboard wrist pad.

One last irritation I've noticed about my B21, the trigger dosen't seem to adjust pull on the second stage very well, as a result the trigger is not smooth as say my old RWS 45 was.

Gayle

Posted on Sep 12, 2002, 10:21 AM
from IP address 208.191.179.92

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Did you see the photo...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

I posted on my message of the tripod I made?

Using a gel type cushion should work just fine.

About the trigger adjustment. I screw down both screws on the trigger all the way and it has works good on all the B-21s I sell. I have found that screwing down both screws all the way gives me a nice hair trigger pull. Try it, it should work with your model, a little Slick 50 down inside the trigger's device helps to smooth things out also.

Eddie

Posted on Sep 12, 2002, 10:29 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.161

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Tripod

by gdotts (Login gdotts)

Yes, I saw your picture, said to myself...Hey he's got one too! A tripod is truely the way to go. I would send a picture but I'm at work. The last time I did try to send a pic (few weeks ago) the insert object didn't work for me, the upload didn't like me, so I gave up. Ill try again this weekend to send some pics.
Keep up the good work, we apreciate it!

Gayle

Posted on Sep 12, 2002, 10:55 AM
from IP address 208.191.179.92

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I had the same problem with this photo...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

I went to my Photo Retouch program and resized it (in "Image size"), the photo was to big. I lowered the width from 856 to 200, then I saved the photo and tried again and it worked fine. Sometimes this happens due to the name given to the file, if the file has a "." or a "," or a "-" Network will reject the photo, you will have to open it in your Photo Retouch program and save it under another name. Another thing network only take Jpeg files,no bitmap files, bitmap files are too big, Jpeg files are for the internet and are much smaller.

Hope this helps.
Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.130 on Sep 12, 2002 3:28 PM

Posted on Sep 12, 2002, 3:24 PM
from IP address 66.50.73.130

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Me...B21 and a boat load of pellets.

by (Login gdotts)

Picture of me and my B21( if it comes out).
B21\.22 acuracy after 900 shots:
0.45"-0.80" at 20 yards with favored pellet.
Best pellets so far RWS Super "H".... I dont have enough backyard to try 40 or 50 yards yet. Don't you just hate it when you get 4 dead on shots, then 1 to mess it all up? I am hoping for tighter acuracy, but this may be it for the B21. Can It be improved on?

Gayle

Posted on Sep 13, 2002, 11:04 AM
from IP address 207.218.214.105

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type of tripod

by (Login redgut)

Is that a camera tripod? I like the set up. I'm a Houston Texas native since your supporting the team I guess you are too ). Did you get that local? Thanks in advance for the help. Tracy

Posted on Sep 13, 2002, 7:12 PM
from IP address 64.241.208.138

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tripod

by gdotts (Login gdotts)

Tracy,

Type of tripod, Ambico 19.95 @ Walmart.
Padding... see above messages, I accidentally forgot to fill in the your name box on earlier pictured message.
Texans fan (West Houston), hell-yes!.... Excuse me!
B21 purchased in Houston at Xisico warehouse.
B21\.22 .....hits HARD! I am very pleased.

Gayle

Posted on Sep 13, 2002, 10:24 PM
from IP address 216.12.217.55

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got one at the gun show this weekend

by (Login redgut)

Found one this weekend. I bought my B-42 from john myself. It's around the corner from my job. I work at the Bank One building up on Westheimer.
GO TEXANS!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted on Sep 15, 2002, 2:55 PM
from IP address 64.241.209.112

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Happy Plinking...nt.

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

Eddie

Posted on Sep 16, 2002, 3:50 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.116

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I got mine from Wal. Mart also...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

but I used a piece of PVC plastic pipe and some old foam from a beer can cooler inside the PVC to cushion the impact from the air gun. I drilled a hole in the PVC just a little bit more smaller than the screw on top and screwed it in. I sanded the inside of the PVC with 100 grit sand paper and glued the old beer cooler foam inside the PVC with contact cement.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.31 on Sep 14, 2002 6:43 AM

Posted on Sep 14, 2002, 6:41 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.31

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A good tune...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

helps accuracy.

Eddie

Posted on Sep 14, 2002, 6:34 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.31

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B21

by gdotts (Login gdotts)

Where can I find info on a tune for B21. Can parts of tunes be performed? Eddie, if you would please, hook me up with a link.

Finish on out of box B21 was too dull for my liking, so I used 6 coats of McGuires High Tech yellow #26 car paste wax. I like the finish alot better.

Gayle

Posted on Sep 14, 2002, 2:58 PM
from IP address 207.218.213.234

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A simple tune is easy...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

for consistency in shooting. It will take a little power away, but the shots will be more stable. First go to my site, there is a link on the top of the main page of this forum, and look in at the bottom of the index and look in the link page for Jim McCarie's site. Buy a jar of moly paste/grease and a jar high volicty main spring tar.

On my site you will find instructions of dissemabling the B-21. Clean out your B-21 with degreaser, rinse and dry well. Put some high volicty main spring tar on your main spring and put some moly paste on your piston's seal and cover your piston with moly paste/grease to prevent rust. Place a rubber hose washer on your spring's guide with the metal washer on top. Check to insure that the breech hole of your chamber is clean and doesn't have metal burrs, if it does, drill them out. Also clean out the barrel of your air gun with a degreaser and lightly oil with Slick 50 1 lube, spray type.

Take a 50/50 mixture of moly and Slick 50 and place it inside your trigger's assembly, screw down the 2 adjustment screws all the way on your trigger.

Put your B-21 back together and it is tuned.

You will lose about 50 to 80 fps due to the tar on the mainspring, but the air gun will have more consistency in shots and less vibrations. It should become more accurate.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.103 on Sep 15, 2002 6:35 AM
This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.103 on Sep 15, 2002 6:05 AM

Posted on Sep 15, 2002, 5:54 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.103

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PS...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

that paste wax gave the stock a nice look...

Eddie

Posted on Sep 15, 2002, 6:39 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.103

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B22/B21 condition of the chamber....

by (Login skans)

When I took my B22 appart, although the outer part of the chamber appears to be finely machined, the inner part leaves something to be desired. It has ridges in it and is not as smooth as it could be.

Has anyone honed out and polished the inner chamber? If so, did it make the gun work any better? Would this cause the seal not to fit as snuggly as before?

I am considering taking a small brake hone, attach it to my drill, and hone away. Then what I'd like to do, is get some trippoli and polish it. But I would sure like to perform this process on a spare chamber to compare results - anyone know where I can get one???

Posted on Sep 13, 2002, 9:08 AM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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I swear by honing

by (Login afineman)

Dude

E-Mail me and I will give you the conditions I honed my B 21 .177

AFineMan

Posted on Sep 13, 2002, 4:06 PM
from IP address 68.68.34.131

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I have found that if you hone more than

by Ray in PA. (Login RAYRND)

a couple thousands (.002) out of the inside of an airgun chamber, you could start to lose power, Although this depends on how close your chamber's inside diameter was bored to recommended factory specifications in the first place. I have experimented with smooth chambers and grooved chambers (small boring grooves created during boring) and found that just lightly honing your cylinder is about all you can do for a grooved chamber. As long as the grooves are not very wide or deep, And the top of the grooves feel smooth, Your gun will probably shoot at full power. Also over polishing the chamber to a super smooth finish could result in the piston seal being burnished and becoming less effective.

Ray in PA.

Posted on Sep 13, 2002, 8:16 PM
from IP address 205.138.20.98

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smooth for leather seals, honed for synthetic seals.....

by ^tg^ (Login t.g.)

is the rule of thumb

"If you like it, who gives a ratsass what anybody else thinks"
^tg^

Posted on Sep 14, 2002, 6:32 AM
from IP address 209.23.17.187

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I have been designing a air gun hot rodding award...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

Since you guys are coming up with so many good ideas and results, I have been thinking about doing a 3 month contest for the best 3 ideas for Air Gun Hot Rodding.

Of course I wanted to ask you guys first what do you think of this idea?

I do need some help with making the rules of contest, I was thinking of something like this.

Lubes allowed: moly paste or powder, teflon powder, commercial air gun chamber lubes, Slick 50 Advance formula or a combination of the above.

Modified air guns accepted.

Models accepted: B-21, B-18, B-4-2.

Goal, best idea that creates best speeds according to rated speeds of the model with consistency.

So what do you guys think about this?

Here is the design award I have created using a 3d program, of course the person who wins the award will have his name place on the award, a personal award, that shall be sent personaly by me to the winner by e-mail that can be printed and framed. Sorry no cash awards, I can't afford it.

Let me know what you guys think???

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.74.113 on Apr 1, 2002 6:16 PM
This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.74.28 on Mar 31, 2002 6:05 PM
This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.74.28 on Mar 31, 2002 6:01 PM

Posted on Mar 31, 2002, 4:49 PM
from IP address 66.50.74.28

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Ummm... Eddie? I wonder if you've thought this thru...

by Steve in NC (Login pneuguy)

...so tell me: do you really want to be responsible for encouraging the kind of gasoline-down-the-transfer-port experimentation this kind of contest is likely to inspire?

Meanwhile -- I really like your trophy design. Expecially how (to my eye) it includes a suggestion of a mushroom cloud motif.

Very appropriate, I think, considering...

Now -- how about working in a nice fireball?

Cheers (from the bunker),
Steve

Posted on Mar 31, 2002, 5:34 PM
from IP address 208.61.132.230

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Well Steve...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

How about some ideas to create some rules for avoiding this.

Prephapes one should be the use of a Chrony for the tests, most people who have Chronys know a little better what can be used and what is just plain dangerous to be use.

We can also limit it to certain lubes, like moly, air gun chamber lubes, S-50 and other commercial air gun lubes or a combination of these lubes.

Let me know what you think and what ideas you come up with.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.74.28 on Mar 31, 2002 5:52 PM
This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.74.28 on Mar 31, 2002 5:41 PM

Posted on Mar 31, 2002, 5:40 PM
from IP address 66.50.74.28

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My concern would be that, no matter what the "official rules" might be...

by Steve in NC (Login pneuguy)

...the overstimulated, too-much-caffeine, impressionable types in your forum audience would go right ahead and and squirt the most volatile stuff they can think of into their springers' compression chambers.

Once you open Pandora's box and promote the idea that magic might be done if only the "perfect" chamber lube could be found, SOMEBODY is going to try nitroglycerine.

Do you see the problem?

JMO,
Steve

Posted on Mar 31, 2002, 7:12 PM
from IP address 208.61.132.230

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How about a tiny pinch of black powder inside of...

by skans (Login skans)

a .22 cal pellet, sealed with a drop of kerosene on some cotton!!!!!!

Posted on Sep 13, 2002, 8:59 AM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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O.k. Steve I modified the lubes...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

I edit the orginial message and changed the lubes that can be used.

Tell me what you think now?

Eddie

Posted on Mar 31, 2002, 6:03 PM
from IP address 66.50.74.28

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?

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

?

Posted on Mar 31, 2002, 6:51 PM
from IP address 66.50.74.28

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Does anybody else think this is a bad idea...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

Steve from NC has advise me not to do the contest. Are they more you guys who think the same?

Eddie

Posted on Apr 1, 2002, 3:09 PM
from IP address 66.50.74.113

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Re: Airgun Hotrodding Contest...

by (Login ZVP)

Eddie,
No I don't think an Airgun Hot Rodding preformance contest is a bad idea at all!
Here's the thing though.
As in "real" Hot Rodding of an automobile the term has never been clearlly defined...
Eddie,Steve and you have gone back and forth for months now debating the worth of just one thing.
Lubricants.
This is not Hot Rodding!
An avid VW Beetle enthusiast could add a couple gallons of 101 AV Gas, and go like hell for one day, but does this a Hot Rodder make?
No.
The guy who squeezes every cubic inch, balances the engine, Chromes everything, and runs it on pump gas, now that's a Hot Rodder! Wheather he uses Mobil 1 Synthetic oil or recycled oil from a barrel is of no consequence. It's the tuning talents.
Now an airgunner would be expected to do the same things before they could qualify as a Hot Rodder.
I understand the concerns of using certain lubricants and that this point actually would give the VW an unfair edge over a "tune only" gun.Then there is the question of liability for either class.
Why not do this, have a "Tuners" class.
Award given.
Have the "Exotic Lubes" class.
No award, but be allowed to post results on a comparitive basis , with a disclaimer of relinquishing the contests blame for gun or personal damages or injury. At your own risk...
A pure top velocity and top accuracy notation for each division.
Another piont to be noted is that this contest would actually go under a type of "Unlimited" rule,as tuning the guns can get really wild even without even touching lubes.
Heck it's long been a standard of Hot Rodding to stuff a bigblock chevy into a deuce coupe,so say where would you draw a line on the "Accuracy Class"? A guy could mount a 24" Lothar Walther barrel, Have say, Russ Best and Macarri collaberate on tuning it and get match preformances... The land speed record gun would have a 30 cal barrel,and Gary Barnes airbottle in the stock!
Or:
Just limit it to some guy with some emory paper, a spring compressor, and files?
Kinda wide open Huh?
Honest this is a neat idea, but a hard call!
I think all the regulations would choke it, unless they were way on the "Unlimited" side of things!
I don't think anyone has tried it before, and it would be really interesting to see what can be done!
JMHO
ZVP

Posted on Apr 1, 2002, 6:58 PM
from IP address 209.142.18.183

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Good idea ZVP

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

No contest, just random awards for different efforts, I liked the idea.

I will start now.

Thanks
Eddie

Posted on Apr 1, 2002, 7:08 PM
from IP address 66.50.74.113

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Now THAT is a cute idea! Please give yourself one, Eddie...

by Steve in NC (Login pneuguy)

...and ZVP too.

Cheers,
Steve

Posted on Apr 1, 2002, 7:24 PM
from IP address 208.61.135.224

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Well Steve...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

there will be no contest, that should make you feel better, I took your advice.

Come on, don't be a drag, get in with the fun.

Eddie

Posted on Apr 1, 2002, 7:30 PM
from IP address 66.50.74.113

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No, no. I'm serious. At least as serious as anyone should be...

by Steve in NC (Login pneuguy)

...on April 1st!

I think the idea of providing a pat on the back for anyone sharing ANY nifty idea for improving airgun performance in ANY way -- not just muzzle velocity -- is a fine one.

Cheers,
Steve

Posted on Apr 1, 2002, 7:45 PM
from IP address 208.61.135.224

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No kiddin!

by (Login ZVP)

Steve,
You are right, a lot of folks do put their efforts into improving things concerning airguns, here on the Grass Roots level.
We all will never agree, but the good intentions is worthy of a pat on the head every once in a while!
Man, look at all the "crash and burns" we have all shared, and look at some of the now standard "tricks" we all learned and now use in common!
Where would we be without all the expermentation?
I think on April Fools day it is fitting to acknowlege it for ourselves, then reach around our sholder, and pat that guy on the back for just tryin!
LOL!
Later,
ZVP

Posted on Apr 1, 2002, 8:50 PM
from IP address 209.142.18.183

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No - looking forward too it

by Charlie (Login chinker1)

I would like to read what others have done - and try some of the concepts I learn. Hope you do it.
Cheers

Posted on Apr 1, 2002, 7:16 PM
from IP address 152.163.194.187

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Don't worry Charlie...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

people will keep posting their work and the results. Check out why JD won a Excellence award, under the award is his Award winning posted message. He did a great job on his B-21.

Eddie

Posted on Apr 1, 2002, 7:24 PM
from IP address 66.50.74.113

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I wouldn't qualify since I have a QB36-2, But I would of like to of seen

by Ray in PA. (Login ray36)

how many FT.S. I could get out of a B-22 if I had one to work on. Maybe I will buy one in the future since I like these side lever cocking air rifles also.
Thanks Ray in PA.

Posted on Apr 1, 2002, 7:53 PM
from IP address 205.188.200.46

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Great...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

I will be looking forward to your testings with your new B-21.

Eddie

Posted on Apr 2, 2002, 3:46 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.207

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XS Replacement Parts are now available...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

I got my order of parts in yesterday and I finally got the order form page running. This is a small time buisness, Postal money orders only.

I have tried to keep the shipping and handling as low as possible, my flat rate shipping is better than most companies.

The parts that are available are the following:

XS B-22, main spring with breech seal and piston seal.

XS B-7 and XS B-3, main spring with breech seal and piston seal.

XS B-4-2, main spring with breech seal and piston seal.

Industry B-2, main spring with piston seal.

The XS B-18 are not available for moment they are on back order. Hopefully they will be coming soon.

For ordering your replacement parts click on the link below.
http://air_guns.tripod.com/genuine_xs_replacement_parts.htm

Sincerely,
Eddie Ferrer

Posted on Sep 11, 2002, 12:03 PM
from IP address 66.50.74.118

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Never left Eddie, just hangin in the shadows.....

by (Login TF79shooter)

Just decided not to get too much into all the "Opinions" everyone is welcome to have, right or wrong. I only post when I can be of help.
I'm here for the airgunning part of it.
Regards,
Ray

TF79shooter

Keep em in the black!

Posted on Sep 10, 2002, 7:20 AM
from IP address 198.81.18.157

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Good, nice knowing you are there...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

your always welcome here.

Eddie

Posted on Sep 10, 2002, 3:56 PM
from IP address 66.50.74.229

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My B-21 in .22 cal. came in...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

I decided to test her as she came with my chrony and found that she was only giving me about 680 fps. I knew something was wrong so I decided to take her apart. What I found was metal debri inside the chamber that was holding her power back.

Since I had the B-21 (.22 cal.) apart I decide to do some ideas on her that have been crossing my head from the first day I sent away for her. (begaining to sound a little like a love affair uh?) For one I cleaned the chamber the piston, the piston's seal, the main spring and it's guide with a degreaser. After insuring everything was clean and dry. I examed the chamber and found that the breech hole in the chamber had metal spurs. I took a drill and drill out the excess metal spurs, cleaned the chamber again and proceeded to work on this baby. I also tested the seal by stopping up the breech hole in the chamber and pushing on the piston and seal, the piston and seal held the pressure, so the piston seal was not damaged by the metal debri and is ok.

I had been thinking over Gary's idea of using rubber to cushion the shock of the B-21 inside the stock. I found it to be a good idea. But after thinking it over and over, I realized that the shock is created by the main spring and double impact. So I decide to use Gary's idea in a different way. I decide to use the rubber idea in the heart of the gun. I took a rubber hose gasket and placed it inbetween the metal washer and the spring guide. This extra space inbetween the 2 washers jack up the main spring a little and should give the air gun a little more power (and I believe it did).

After installing the rubber hose gasket, I proceed to grease the piston and the main spring with Hi Temp Grease, disk brake wheel bearing type I used about 2 teaspoons of grease for both the piston and the spring. I then took moly grease, coated the edge and back part of the piston's seal. I took one drop of my air gun juice 2:6 moly, 4:6 Slick 50 and with my finger, I lightly coated the inside of the chamber as far as my finger could go. I also took some moly grease and applied it on top of the coating of Hi Temp grease on the main spring. I took the trigger assembly and sprayed it with Slick 50 lube. After doing all this I put the B-21 back together again.

Now for the chrony testing. I used .22 cal. 14.3 gr. Crosman domed pellets.

I decide just for the heck of it to test the first 2 shots.
fps:
764.8
967.4
Hmmm, that last shot was a high combustion shot.
Me and my cousin decided to do some long distance shooting to see how far the gun could shoot.

10 shots later, I went back to the chrony testing.
fps:
864.1
860.3
854.9
858.2
856.5
Then we decide to see what this air gun could do to a 3/4" thick piece of plywood. Wow, what power, the pellet went right thu the plywood and took a chuck out of the back. After about 10 more shots I went back to the chrony.
fps:
854.6
852.4
859.9
853.4
852.0
We noticed a moving plastic bottle floating in the river and decided to to some fun shooting. About 10 shots later, I went back to the chrony testing.
fps:
848.7
842.9
850.0
845.6
843.9
Some more moving floating debri came down the river, some more fun shooting. 20 shots later back to the chrony testing.
fps:
845.7
840.2
838.9
843.6
844.3

From this testing I found that the B-21 in .22 cal. settle down to about 840 fps. We also found and agreed that the extra grease and the rubber hose gasket on the main spring smoothed down the impact/vibratons of the B-21, so smooth that not even the stock's screws became loose. Which we checked/found the screws still tight after all that shootin and that before the treatment the same screws were coming loose every 3 to 4 shots (no loctite used).

Also according to my papers from Xisico the B-21 in .22 cal. is rated by the manufactors at 750 fps. Which means that the treatment I gave this air gun improved the speeds (fps) and reduced the vibrations.

My efforts were worth while. This baby goes to my collection.

Sincerely,
Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.28 on Sep 5, 2002 6:27 PM

Posted on Sep 5, 2002, 6:16 PM
from IP address 66.50.73.28

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did you try???

by (Login afineman)

Eddie

As you know, the velocity I get out of my B 21 (.177) with CROSMAN 7.9 has been questioned ( avg 960 FPS).
I attribute this speed to many things (including the Krytox), but I also believe the honing and Epoxy filling of the voids had a lot to do with the speed I am getting.
Eddie did (while it was apart) you run a pointed piece of metal down the bore too see if there was any scoring ???
And if you are willing, would you be willing to do an experiment, Hone/Epoxy/Hone then Chrony the results. I get SCREAMING results with my combo but I would like confirmation.
As I said before, I have ordered the 36 pellet sample, I have 4 different type here, when they arrive ( next week ) I will be doing a 5 shot grouping as well as MV and FPE at point of impact.
Eddie I want to post the results, in jpeg format, ( 5 pellets per quadrant , 25 pellets, total ) does your forum server support this amount of Jpegs??? Or should I post them on MY web site???

As Always

AfineMan

Posted on Sep 5, 2002, 7:31 PM
from IP address 68.68.34.131

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Well Brent, I examed...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

the chamber with a flash light and the walls were pretty even, that is how I saw those metal spurs on the inside of the breech's port/hole. I also tested the piston's seal and the chamber's pressure, by first taking the round plastic handle end of a small screw driver and stopping up the breech's port/hole and pushing on the piston with force and the pressure held and when I released the piston, it bounced back out. So I found the chamber and the piston's seal to be in top shape and found no need for polishing.

Remember this is a .22 cal. model rated at 750 fps, your .177 cal. model is rated at 950 fps by the manufactors. I got around 90 fps more than the rated speed. Some time in the future I will try this same treatment on a B-21 in .177 cal. and chrony it and let you know the results, at the moment I do not have a .177 cal. I sold my old B-21.

I also have a new B-18 in .177 cal. it is averageing about 850 fps with my air gun juice. I plan on giving this model the same treatment this week end and chrony testing it. My hopes are that with this new treatment I can bring this air gun up to 920 fps.

Soooo, stay tuned.

Eddie

Posted on Sep 6, 2002, 2:52 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.79

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Ok, I'm itching to take my B21 .22cal appart -

by Skans (Login skans)

I thought the thing was exceptionally powerful right out of the box, it punched holes clean throught 5/8 inch hardwood. I don't have any way to actually test the speed, so I have to rely on your analysis, and try to mimic what you have found and your treatment.

IMHO, the B21 in .22 cal seems to be the way to go with this particular brand. Looks like you can get close to the same speed as the .177 cal, but the impact is far more devistating.

Posted on Sep 6, 2002, 5:36 AM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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Ok Skans...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

Go to my site and check out how to dissasemble the B-21 and just follow the instructions I placed on the forum. Remember to check the breech port/hole to see if it has metal spurs and use the rubber water hose washer for less vibrations.

Good luck.
Eddie

Posted on Sep 6, 2002, 7:18 AM
from IP address 66.50.74.63

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I took my B21 apart and this is what I found...

by Skans (Login skans)

First, I found it fairly easy to make a spring compressor out of an old C-clamp I had laying around and a sturdy piece of lumber. I later figured out that you need to rout out a hole so you can access the main pin that holds the trigger housing/spring to the receiver tube. Once that was solved, taking the rifle apart was easy.

Once I had the B21 apart, I examined the components - spring had very little oil on it, in fact you could tell that it had just started to show signs of a little rust. The piston looked ok, but the seal had two metal particles embedded in the front. I used a needle nose plyers to remove these, but you could see that they already left tiny indentations. The sides of the seal were perfect, no flaws or problems. The compression chamber on the outside appears to be a finely machined part, but on the inside it could definitely use a good hone. I did not do this, as I was concerned with changing the dimensions of the chamber and that the seal wouldn't be as tight. Also, I don't know if a hone would leave the walls smoothe enough, or if it would just eat up the seal.

So I just mixed up a batch of slick 50 and synthetic grease, coated the spring, the outside of the chamber, the metal part of the piston and just a very sparse coat on the inside of the chamber (not sure if I was supposed to do that). Oh, and I thoroughly cleaned all of the components - they had a lot of metal dust on them, and I found a few metal filings.

After I put the rifle back together (not as easy as taking it apart, but not too bad) I fired about 20 shots, and it was diesling a little, but this diminished after about 15 shots. I'm not sure if I can tell any difference in power, as I don't yet have a chrony. It seemed as powerful as it did before I gave it the slick 50 treatment. It did opperate smoother, since there was hardly any lube on the parts from the factory. I did determine that anyone buying a B21 take it appart and clean it - what everyone on this board says is true about metal filings and dust. Fortunately, I only fired about 20 shots through the gun before taking it appart and cleaning it.

Posted on Sep 9, 2002, 3:21 AM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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Sounds like you did a pretty good job...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

but did you use the rubber hose gasket? They only cost about 10 cents each at a hardware store. Also you didn't mention using moly grease, this you can buy at a motorcycle shop, it is used for motorcycle chains. I guess you used what you had on hand. But even that way there should be an improvement in speeds and lower vibrations.

Suprising isn't it how much metal debri is left inside these air guns. Cleaning them out before shooting them is a must.

Good job.

Eddie

Posted on Sep 9, 2002, 7:38 AM
from IP address 66.50.74.20

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No, I couldn't find moly grease...

by Skans (Login skans)

I just used pure synthetic bearing grease. This has a fairly high temperature rating, and gave a decent consistency when mixed with Slick 50. I'm not familiar with moly grease and am not sure what it would add that synthetic grease doesn't. I thought that it was really the slick 50 that was the active ingredient and that the grease was just to sort of keep it in place. I was trying to use something non-petroleum based.

I can tell you this - when it deisels, its a bad idea to get any of the smoke in your eyes, it burns like hell!

Posted on Sep 9, 2002, 2:14 PM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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Skans...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

I found a lot of metal debri inside that air gun, there was even a metal shaving as big a finger nail clipping with sharp edges. Make sure you clean it well. I found a lot of metal debri inside the hollow part of the piston, take a artist paint brush with degreaser, clean inside that hollow part twice and rinse it twice. Make sure you get all that metal debri out, that stuff is murder on your piston's seal and will eat/sand it. It is all a matter of time for that metal debri to work itself into your chamber and eat your piston's seal.

About a year ago this happened to me with my B-21 in .177 cal.. I didn't clean it before using it and with in 30 shots it had a real drop in power. When I took it apart the piston seal's edges had been eaten away by the metal debri. You could even see cut marks of the debri on the piston's seal. Looked like it had been sanded down with 80 grit sand paper.

Eddie

Posted on Sep 6, 2002, 8:00 AM
from IP address 66.50.74.63

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Wow, Eddie, I'm impressed!

by Gary D. Mackey (Login GMACK1)

Looks like your results give consistant power, and the use of a rubber damper inside the gun never occurred to me. Sounds like you turned that gun into a wonderful shootin' machine.

Posted on Sep 6, 2002, 9:47 PM
from IP address 216.40.236.213

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Thanks,...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

and thank you again for giving me the idea of using rubber.

Eddie

Posted on Sep 7, 2002, 7:12 AM
from IP address 66.50.74.139

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One thing to consider is that what's nice for you, maybe ain't so nice...

by Steve in NC (Login pneuguy)

...for the scope.

I don't know how much of the recoil impact you've isolated from the stock with the added rubber, but if it's significant, don't forget that the scope is mounted, not to the stock, but directly to the receiver.

So the less force ("impluse", to use the proper physics term) that's communicated to the stock and your shoulder due to the rubber cushion, then (by the law of conservation of momentum) the more that's left to jerk the receiver around and, ultimately, g-load the scope. Therefore, especially with known scope-busters like the B21/22, recoil-isolation modifications may make the quality and airgun-rating of the scope, already crucial, even more important.

Just food for thought. Please keep up the good work and interesting posts.

Cheers,
Steve

This message has been edited by pneuguy from IP address 208.61.135.56 on Sep 7, 2002 11:53 AM

Posted on Sep 7, 2002, 11:51 AM
from IP address 208.61.135.56

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Scopes and the B21...

by Gary D. Mackey (Login GMACK1)

As the B21 in either caliber is well known for beating scopes to a swift and painful demise, I personally reccomend a decent peep sight instead of a scope for it.
It's kind of a let-down to put an expensive scope on such a beautiful rifle, only to see the scope come to pieces after only a few shots. A peep sight will certianly hold up longer.

Posted on Sep 7, 2002, 7:13 PM
from IP address 216.40.236.67

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I can't understand why the B21 eats scopes...

by skans (Login skans)

I used to have a scoped 22-250 which had a heck of a kick on it for a small caliber weapon and never experienced any problem with the scope or scope mount. I was shooting my new B21 yesterday (no scope) and thinking that it doesn't have hardly any kick, compared to a firearm. I just don't see how this particular rifle can do any more damage to a scope than a 22-250, .308 or 30-06.

Posted on Sep 9, 2002, 2:47 AM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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Skans the problem with a spring piston air gun...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

and scopes is that the spring piston air gun has a back and front kick, the back kick is created when your air gun releases the cocked piston and the front kick is created when your piston hits the end of the chamber. Regular fire arms only have a back kick. This back and front kick from your springer is hard on scopes. Never use a regular fire arm's scope on a springer it will destory it, regular fire arm's scopes are only made to take the back kick of the rifle, not the front kick. Any scope you use on a springer must be made for a air gun.

I will be posting you a link of a very interesting site with cool demos on scopes that I am sure you will find interesting in a few minutes.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.74.20 on Sep 9, 2002 7:43 AM

Posted on Sep 9, 2002, 7:28 AM
from IP address 66.50.74.20

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Check this cool link out

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

This site has some really cool demos on scopes, check it out you will learn a lot and enjoy it.

http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/rifledemos.htm

If you look a "Demo 10" and watch the action carefully you will notice that not only does the springer produce a back kick when it releases the cocked piston, you will see that when the piston hits the end of the chamber a double front impact is created. This is why springers are hard on scopes and the scopes clamps.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.74.20 on Sep 9, 2002 7:52 AM

Posted on Sep 9, 2002, 7:46 AM
from IP address 66.50.74.20

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You think???????????????????

by natlite (Login natlite)

Wow,Now I can sleep better at night knowing that a spring air gun has a double bounce when fired. Thats why air gun rated scopes are "double braced" and they cost a bit more. They all do not stand up tho..

Posted on Sep 9, 2002, 2:25 PM
from IP address 152.163.188.71

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Anyone wanr to trade??

by (Login natlite)

I have a cotuned qb-78 with a refinished stock.I Am into spring guns. I'll trade for a .177 B-21.I have about $200 in the QB.

Posted on Sep 9, 2002, 10:30 AM
from IP address 205.188.209.135

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were can I buy a chronograph?

by (Login redgut)

Also what is the cost of one. thx Tracy

Posted on Sep 8, 2002, 8:43 PM
from IP address 64.241.208.129

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look on ebay...

by skans (Login skans)

Just type in "chrony" to get started, you will figure out other variations - I have been looking for one too, and check ebay from time to time - it looks like you should be able to pick up a decent used one for $30-40.

Posted on Sep 9, 2002, 2:51 AM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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Around...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

$80.00, I got mine from Cabela's fishing and hunting supplies.

Eddie

Posted on Sep 9, 2002, 9:38 AM
from IP address 66.50.74.20

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Just got my B21....

by Skans (Login skans)

WHAT A RIFLE! I was fooling around with my new B21 and my Beeman P1 pistol in my garage last night. I am very happy with the power and feel of the P1 pistol, which is rated at 600 fps. But when I shot my B21, in .22 cal. right out of the box there was no comparison! I was using a solid 5/8" thick piece of hardwood as a target backstop. Granted, I was only shooting at a distance of 20', but I was very suprised to find that the .22 cal 14 gr. dome pellets bored holes right through this plank and left nice size indentations on the wood door behind the plank.

At 20' The P1 would embed the pointed .177 pellets about 1/2 to 3/4 solidly into the plank, but no sign of splintering on the back side of the plank.

I thought that a .177 pellet at 600 fps and a .22 pellet at about 750 fps would have about the same level of penetration. I don't have a chrony to check the actual fps.

I couldn't keep shooting the B21 at the hardwood plank, so I found a 2" thick piece of pressure treated pine, which stopped the pellet just fine.

The B21 is an exceptional quality Airgun! The only complaint I have is the finish on the hardwood stock - it could use a little more sanding, and I personally prefer a gloss or semi-gloss finish to the matt finish it comes with. It almost looks like bare wood, but it's not. The stock itself is very nice. I'm thinking about refinishing the stock. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to use as a topcoat. Tungoil?, Urethane? I'm looking for something durable, easy to apply, and get as close to a professional RWS type quality as I can.

Posted on Sep 5, 2002, 7:01 AM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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Refinishing

by (Login 144man)

I refinished the stock on my B21. After I removed the factory finish w/varnish stripper, I found numerous filled areas around the pistol grip and the cheek piece. Basically, any complicated concave area appeared to be rather sloppily routed out with a hand grinder, then filled with some substance that is the same color as the finish. Once you remove the factory finish, these become very obvious and not too attractive. Best bet is to re-stain the stock with a similar or darker color, as these fills will not accept stain. While you are at it, you might consider adding some checkering and/or inlaying to create a truly unique B21. By the way, I found also that my B21 pushes the limits of indoor shooting. Good luck.

Posted on Sep 5, 2002, 10:51 AM
from IP address 208.22.33.222

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Refinishing questions....

by skans (Login skans)

Jim, you bring up some good ideas - never considered checkering, how is this done? Also, inlay would be really cool - do you have any experience with this?

What product did you use to finish your stock, and what were the results?

Posted on Sep 5, 2002, 11:01 AM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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Refinishing

by Jim (Login 144man)

I've never tried checkering. Hand checkering tools are about $60 from woodworkers supply places. I have done some inlaying, but not on a gun stock, yet. You can get premade patterned wood strips from Woodworkers Suppy. They are about 1/8" thick. I use a dremel tool with a router base, cut a groove a little shallower that the inlay strip, glue it in, then sand it flush. As for the finish on my B21, I used a dark mahogony oil stain, let it dry overnight, then used several applications of Tung oil finish. It penetrates, then hardens. The more you rub it, the deeper the finish. It makes for a deep, low gloss durable finish, and its not harmed by the ocasional drops of oil that may get on it.

Posted on Sep 6, 2002, 8:46 AM
from IP address 208.22.33.222

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Check out my Heavily Modified B21....

by (Login TF79shooter)

Most of the Modification was to the stock! Lay your out as mine appears in PIX and compare looking very closely, not a surface on mine is as stock. I did NOT find any "Filler" anywhere in my stock. It had such nice woodgrain under that puke finish it came with that I took it to a forestry wood expert to find out what it was.
To see it click on the top "Link" airgun info etc. then click on "Airheadeds Modified B21.
All info as to what I did is given along with time, cost etc., etc.
Regards,
....airheaded

TF79shooter

Keep em in the black!

Posted on Sep 8, 2002, 5:18 PM
from IP address 198.81.16.26

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Cool mods!....

by Skans (Login skans)

I like what you did with your B21, and have a couple of questions for you if you don't mind. Did you loose any power by cutting the barrel - I find the B21 to be unbalanced, and that looks like a pretty good mod to help out with that, but I don't want to loose any power. I too am thinking about refinishing the stock - your's looks great! I will probably keep it simple, but would like to darken the wood a little and put a finish on it that can be buffed to a fairly high gloss. Can this be done with Tung Oil, or what would you suggest?

Posted on Sep 9, 2002, 3:01 AM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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Answers for you...

by (Login TF79shooter)

I did not Chronograph my B21 before or after but it "Feels" the same for power, and being lighter the recoil "Feels" like it has slightly increased.
The color could have been brought to an "Almost Black with the stain I used! This is determined by how many & how much stain you apply and how long you let it "Sit" before wiping it down for the next coat.
I would recommend one of the many Verathane Gloss finishes available and then apply several coats per the instructions in the container. Verathane is somewhat flexible and will work better than a lot of "Waxs" used for this.
Regards,
Ray
PS: The "Balance point" is now 4 inches in front of the trigger guard as it should be.

TF79shooter

Keep em in the black!

Posted on Sep 9, 2002, 7:47 AM
from IP address 198.81.17.176

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Hello Ray, nice seeing you on the forum again...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

how's your target shooting going?

Eddie

Posted on Sep 9, 2002, 8:05 AM
from IP address 66.50.74.20

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Gamo 220 vs. the XS B-18...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

When I recieved my XS B-18 I called my cousin to come over and to bring his Gamo 220 to test them both side by side. Both air guns are .177 cal.

When he came over we compared the two air guns. Both are guns are the same length and just about the same weight and look very simalar. There were some differences. The XS B-18 comes with a Monte Carlos type stock, the Gamo 220 doesn't, the wood colors are difference, the Gamo 220 comes with a high gloss varnished dark reddish colored wood, the XS B-18 comes with satin finish brown colored wood. the Gamo 220 stock butt is a plastic type material and the XS B-18's butt is a thick soft rubber material.

We then did some chrony testings. My cousin's Gamo 220 averaged 844 fps. My new XS B-18 averaged 852 fps.

My cousin was impressed with the XS B-18. We both agreeded that the XS B-18 is a bargain for the price.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.74.235 on Sep 7, 2002 10:03 AM

Posted on Sep 7, 2002, 9:59 AM
from IP address 66.50.74.235

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Internally they are virtually identical guns. Xisico copied the Gamo Hunter series. nt

by (Login crider)

This message has been edited by crider from IP address 66.190.169.231 on Sep 8, 2002 12:41 PM

Posted on Sep 8, 2002, 12:39 PM
from IP address 66.190.169.231

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My wife found me a Shanghai QB-6-Tell me more?

by (Login mcmaduske)

Anyone know how much it is worth?
Can I use both .177 and .22 caliber pellets?
Is this a good gun?

Posted on Sep 7, 2002, 10:50 AM
from IP address 216.10.187.246

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I have a QB-6, it cost me about...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

$70.00, plus $15.00 for shipping and handling.

Your air gun is either .177 cal. or .22 cal.. It can not shoot both calibers properly. If it is a .177 cal. the .22 cal. pellets won't fit and if it is .22 cal., the .177 cal pellets will fit too loose and fall out.

Eddie

Posted on Sep 7, 2002, 4:04 PM
from IP address 66.50.74.129

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Help!! Scope won't stay put on my B18.

by (Login E9a)

Which scope & mount do you have on your B18?

I have a Trophy 4-12x40 on a Beeman one-piece adjustable mount. My open sight groups are 3/4", with scope they are about 8", as in my scope is shifting.

I degreased the mount and scope rail, I tightened all bolts a whole lot, I now put Loctite between the mount and the scope rail. Lastly I even tried cling wrap around the scope where the mount grips it (someone mentioned it worked for him). The POI still shifts!!

Any suggestion is welcome, I don't really know what to do, and I would really like to use my B18 with a scope.

Posted on Sep 3, 2002, 6:32 PM
from IP address 68.81.68.27

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I used epoxy

by (Login afineman)

************Disclaimer************
if you do this! You may NOT be able to get it off in one piece !!

Now that I have said that.

I have a B21 that would shake the heck out of my scope mounting.
I did 2 things 1: used some rubber in strategic locations (between stock and gun) and.
2: I cleaned my scope rail with methanol and my scope tube as well, put small scoring marks in scope tube and in the rail, used a good old 5 min epoxy ( let sit over night). I have greater that 800 shots and it hasn�t moved yet (because I play a lot with my gun ) I have to leave the scope on the gun every time I take it apart.
I realize if I ever have to take the scope off, it may NOT come off in 1 piece.

AFineMan

Posted on Sep 3, 2002, 6:48 PM
from IP address 68.68.34.131

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Not sure if this works or not...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

I read on one of the forums that one of the air gunners used for his B-18's scope mounts that tape that sticks on both sides, the kind used for for putting small framed pictures on walls.

Might be worth a try.

Eddie

Posted on Sep 4, 2002, 5:06 PM
from IP address 66.50.73.62

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But is the scope or mount really moving?

by Steve in NC (Login pneuguy)

If they are, then if you shoot enough shots it will be obvious.

I ask because it's possible for a POI shift to be cause by other effects entirely (e.g., on a breakbarrel, a loose lockup). It's also possible for a scope to be broken.

Good luck,
Steve

Posted on Sep 5, 2002, 7:23 AM
from IP address 208.61.132.183

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Right on Steve, it was a loose lockup.

by (Login E9a)

I made a shim from a plastic bottle for inbetween the barrel and the receiver. Tightening the pivot pin was not enough.
Now it shoots very well. Good tips on
http://www.funsupply.com/airguns/barrellockup.html

Posted on Sep 5, 2002, 7:52 PM
from IP address 68.81.68.27

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QUIET, don't want to disturb the neighbors....

by skans (Login skans)

HELP! I tried out a Beeman P1 yesterday on my poarch, and will be playing around with a B21 this weekend. Right now I live on a 100x150 typical lot - but will be moving to an acre lot in the next month. I am concerned about the noise of these spring guns, and the fact that they look like firearms. I don't want my new neighbors to be able to hear or monitor my shooting activities. Is there a way to LEGALLY silence or quiet spring guns. Are they regulated like firearms, in this regard? Does anyone sell kits, etc. to make spring guns quieter.

Posted on Sep 4, 2002, 5:23 AM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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Noisy guns?

by Gary D. Mackey (Login GMACK1)

My B42 only makes a little bit of spring twang. The pettet hitting the target is far louder.
My Spitfire makes a bit of a pop noise, but still the noise of pellet impact is louder.
My B21 is the real barker, though.

So far, the neibors havn't complained or called the law. But then, I nail rats and tree destroying squirrels, so the neibors and I are even.

Posted on Sep 4, 2002, 8:03 AM
from IP address 207.218.236.194

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No known kit on the market for

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

silencing air guns. Some people tune their air gun's main spring with tar to quiet them down, to lower vibrations and make them shoot smoother. The bad part about taring a main spring is, that it causes a little lost of power (fps) in the air gun.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.62 on Sep 4, 2002 5:37 PM

Posted on Sep 4, 2002, 3:38 PM
from IP address 66.50.73.62

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Beeman P1 questions:

by skans (Login skans)

Ok, I know this is the Chinese Airgun forum, but you guys seem to be pretty knowledgable about the interals of some of the other spring-air guns out there. I can't think of a better place to ask these questions!

1. What do those of you who have examined the P1 really think about its quality and rated 600 fps ability - overstated or not? oppinions please

2. Are seals and springs easy to obtain for the P1 - what's my best bet as far as getting spare parts?

3. What are the bad qualities of the Beeman P1 pistol? All I ever read are raves about this gun, but like all things, I believe there may be a darker side to this pistol.

Posted on Aug 28, 2002, 7:32 AM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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Well...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

I have read some comments about this air gun on the air gun forums and it is suppose to be pretty good. The speeds are pretty close, around 530 fps, according to some owners.

About the parts, I am not sure. You could go to the Beeman site and ask them, they should give you a fast reply. Ask them about the warrenty, some of these more expensive air guns come with a life time warrenty.

Eddie

Posted on Aug 28, 2002, 8:04 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.16

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Thank's Eddie......

by Skans (Login skans)

I'm considering purchasing a P1 in .177 and can use all of the information I can get.

BTW, I'm also considering purchasing one of the cheaper chinese airguns, for a specific purpose, which I know you do not approve of. I have become very interested in "dieseling". I feel pretty certain that I can develop a spring gun that could safely shoot .22 cal pellets with a small amount of a combustionable material in the hollow section. Daisy did this with a spring gun years ago by adding a small amount of combustionable material to their special pellets - I forget the name of the gun.

There are two obsticals to producing a reasonably safe "diesel" weapon: 1) the piston needs to lock into place so that there is no recoil directed to the spring - this can be accomplished by adding a spring activated locking block, that is tripped by the piston like a sear; 2) I will also have to find a seal that can withstand a small amount of combustion - I believe this can be accomplished by mounting a thin stainless washer in front of the seal to deflect most of the combsution.

What are the advantages, you might ask? Well, in my opinion a spring-gun is perhaps the best survival type weapon available today. If WWIII ever happens, all of those assault weapons and machine guns people have will be fairly useless because of the ammo shortage. But there is no shortage of lead, you can find plain old lead just about anywhere and mold your own pellets if necessary. Springs and spare parts for spring-guns can be easily manufactured as opposed to say a bolt for an FNC assault rifle. But the real drawback to spring guns is power - they just aren't powerful enough for self defense or for hunting sizable game i.e. a little larger than raccoons. But a .22 pellet with a true velocity of 1300 is a formidable round and fairly close distances. And, by just adding a drop of gasoline to some cotton stuffed in the rear of a heavy .22 pellet - you have a very cheap, very accessable round, no matter what the circumstances may be.

If you can develop a rifle that can either fire just on air power OR make use of a cheap and accessable combustionable propellant, THEN you have the ultimate survival weapon!!!!!!!!

Posted on Aug 28, 2002, 12:03 PM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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I understand the survival points...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

and I hope your expermenting comes out o.k. and nothing wrong happens.

I do not recommend this type of testing, these air guns are not built for that type of combustion.
Take safety measures when doing these experments, like testing your proto type combustion air gun from a distance to avoid any accidents.

There are a few model air guns that come with locking barrels, one is the XS B-2-1, it is a spring piston air gun, break barrel and it comes with a heavy duty barrel locking device. I believe a heavy duty solid leather seal might hold up to some combustion better than a thin steel seal, or maybe a combination of both would be better using a thicker steel washer behind the seal. The piston's locking device could go behind the seal on the top of the piston as some sort of a catch device (spring powered) from on top or the side of the air gun, then could be pushed/pulled up for reloading.

Do take care with your experment and above all take safety measures and test this proto type from a safe distance behind safe cover.

Good luck.
Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.23 on Aug 28, 2002 1:13 PM
This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.23 on Aug 28, 2002 1:04 PM

Posted on Aug 28, 2002, 1:01 PM
from IP address 66.50.73.23

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Gasonline as a combustible is a very bad idea.

by (Login IamDisaster)

Too volatile. Too powerful. Too hard to meter. Just too darn dangerous. If you are interested in survival search the web and you will find how to make your own gunpowder.

Danny

Posted on Aug 29, 2002, 4:27 AM
from IP address 67.192.62.93

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I dissagree....

by skans (Login skans)

diesel fuel or kerosene is not nearly as volitile as regular gasoline. If volitility is a concern, then just use one of these lowere grades of gasoline. You will actually get a stronger explosion. Also, I believe that gunpowder is much more powerful than gas or diesel, but with .22 cal pellets, you don't need anything more powerful to propell them well beyond a supersonic speed, given the right gun.

I have allways wondered why no one has ever invented a petrol based firearm. It was not until I became interested in spring guns that I even considered revisiting this issue. But in small calibers, like .22 pellets and using only a tiny amount in soaked cotton balls, about the size of a small ball bearing, it becomes a real practical method of making a .22 cal., or even a .25 cal. rifle or pistol. The amunition cannot ever be confiscated or banned, because fuel and lead are far too common to take out of the public's hands. It cannot be regulated as a firearm, because it would be designed to propell pellets using air - what people do with them after they buy them is their own business.

I would design it with a heavier barrel, i.e. one of handling a .22 long cartridge; with heavier piston seals; and with a locking block, so that the piston and spring would not be damaged. This kind of gun fly's under the "firearm" radar, but is capable of handling an explosive propellant, if the user decides to take this risk.

Just food for thougt! You have to admit, that it's not difficult to create such a gun that opperates fairly safely. Judging form the numerous posts here about "dieseling" I'm not the only one currious about this.

Posted on Aug 29, 2002, 7:43 AM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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my $.02 worth

by (Login afineman)

My 2 cents worth

It is my option that there is no way you can control this EXPLOSION. I do not believe that a metered amount of a combustible can be introduced in to these guns time after time.

This is why I tried to have a gun that was combustion free. We know that repeatable muzzle velocity will equal an accurate shot. You may be able to increase muzzle velocity, BUT due to the non repeatable nature of your tests, your accuracy will suffer.

AFineMan

This message has been edited by afineman from IP address 68.68.34.131 on Aug 29, 2002 7:56 PM

Posted on Aug 29, 2002, 6:48 PM
from IP address 68.68.34.131

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Firearms can typically accept...

by Skans (Login skans)

a large variety of cartridges that differe in power and velocity. Even in Airguns, the velocity and power is highly variable, depending on the pellet you are using. Just think of the variations in each charge when using a black powder rifle - no one seems too concerned about that.

For short range varmint hunting (which is really what the Chinese spring guns are designed for for)a variation in pressure is not all that critical. In fact, you could design a blead-off valve if you "over-charge" a pellet so that FPS can be capped off.

I think the one concern that people have here, that they do not want to voice, is: "I don't really want my kid getting the bright idea of super-charging his pellet gun with gasoline" - and I think this is an appropriate concern. In essence, all I have suggested is a "home-made" version of the daisy airgun that used special pellets that would ignite. But, unlike the daisy gun, the one I am suggesting cannot be regulated by BATF. Why? Because it is only an airgun and does not NEED any fuel or gun powder to make it work.

If there was a Chinese airgun, that had a locking block for the piston, a heavier barrel and chamber, and maybe a bleed-off valve, I'd pay another $100 to be able to shoot gas powered pellets, at my choosing. Sounds like a blast to me!!

Posted on Aug 30, 2002, 5:54 AM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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The bleed off valve...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

sounds like a good idea. This would make the experment a little more safer. You could open it compeletly and slowly adjust the pressure of combustion and shoot from a safe distance behind solid protection, till you get to the desired fps. Safety is the most important thing in this matter.

If you really decide to do this experment, remember safety is first at all times.

Take care.
Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.91 on Aug 30, 2002 10:35 AM

Posted on Aug 30, 2002, 10:30 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.91

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Grain mass and weight is accurately measured

by (Login afineman)

I have to disagree, the shell makers base their reputations on the repeatable charge size (shell to shell). Regardless, you can NOT get a tight grouping if the muzzle velocity changes shot to shot. If you can demonstrate a shot to shot reliability +/- 10 FPS then I may be willing to put a swab soaked with a combustible in my gun (then, of course test the results).
These guns are GREAT vermin hunters (no change needed), I will stick with my original feelings. This is an EXPLOSIVE test, and is NOT worth the potential personal harm so you can get a CRACK (breaking sound barrier) when you fire.

AFineMan

Posted on Aug 30, 2002, 6:04 PM
from IP address 68.68.34.131

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Skans, bad news...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

I was talking with a cousin of mine that works with the FBI. He says, that any mod. of any gun for a higher combustion material other than lube needs a special permission from the Federal Goverment. Combustion materials are under Federal Control by the Goverment.

So be beware.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.159 on Aug 30, 2002 8:29 PM

Posted on Aug 30, 2002, 8:15 PM
from IP address 66.50.73.159

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Odds are that....

by Skans (Login skans)

the ATF will eventually redefine "firearm" to include Pneumatics and spring guns that are capable of firing a projectile over 1200 FPS. With advancements in technology and lubrication, I believe that you will see air guns with capabilities of firing .30 caliber projectiles close to 1800 fps.

Then some yahoo will figure out how to make such a weapon fire semi-auto, and then full-auto!!!! Curently, ATF cannot regulate this type of gun - it's not under the NFA. But, it would be quite easy to construct such a gun, especially with a pnuematic rifle. Even a non-pnuematic full-auto air guns is possible, even with today's technology. Of course I am talking about something a little more powerful than the Daisy 2003 pistol.

Picture this -instead of a spring powered piston, replace the spring with an electric solenoid. Press the trigger and the shaft of teh solenoid thrusts the piston forward; release the trigger and the shaft retracts. The power of the solenoid is only limited to the power of the battery, and you can fit a fairly large lead acid battery inside the stock of a conventional airgun.

In fact, I see much greater potential in the future development of airguns than with conventional firearms. They can be very deadly and quiet short range weapons.

Oh well, just my mind getting away from me again.

Posted on Sep 2, 2002, 9:58 AM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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Some day. nt.

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

Eddie

Posted on Sep 2, 2002, 12:00 PM
from IP address 66.50.73.56

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There was such a gun made once...

by (Login GMACK1)

It was a phunamic airgun with a buttstock tank, that could fire a magazine load of .30 cal ammo in about a miniute. The Austrian Army carried them, and those guns so scared Napolian, he had anyone carrying an airgun killed on the spot.
Eddie knows what I'm talking about.

Posted on Sep 2, 2002, 6:58 PM
from IP address 216.40.237.232

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Yeah, the history of that...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

army is on my air gun site, "Air Gun History". Even today RWS makes a model that is a 9mm cal. and can shoot up to 1,000 fps, it is also charged with a hand pump or a diving tank. I believe this model is a 6 shot lever repeater, shoots about 20 shots with a full charge, comes with a adjustable power, 600 fps to 1,000 fps. Expensive though, the hand pump alone (sold apart) costs $200.00, the air gun alone runs around $500.00 to $600.00, that's around $700.00 to $800.00.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.78 on Sep 2, 2002 8:20 PM

Posted on Sep 2, 2002, 8:16 PM
from IP address 66.50.73.78

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But, if you are an exconvict,

by skans (Login skans)

airguns might be the only thing you can hunt and protect yourself with.

What would it take to raise the psi to 4000 or above? Is it technologically feasible?

Posted on Sep 3, 2002, 5:14 AM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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For that kind of power...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

it would have to be real big. A small cannon, too heavy to lug around.

Eddie

Posted on Sep 3, 2002, 6:34 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.41

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Biggest drawback of P1 that it is a springer

by (Login IamDisaster)

If you think magnum springer rifles kick you should try a magnum springer pistol. People have great difficulty shooting this gun accurately. Pneumatics are much more accurate. You can either get a P3 or IZH-46m (380fps or 440fps respectively.) Or, you can buy a Crosman 1377 cheap ($60) if you don't mind pumping. There was also a 1322 (in .22) but it has been discontinued. I bought a 1377 and converted it to a 1322 by buying the larger barrel and bolt directly from Crossman. The Crosman is even more powerful than the P1 and there are lots of very cool mods available for it at places like www.crookedbarn.com. There are also Benj/Sher pump up pistols for just a little over $100.

Danny

Posted on Aug 29, 2002, 4:25 AM
from IP address 67.192.62.93

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The body armor is on

by (Login afineman)

Greetings all

I would like to begin by saying �Thanks� to Steve NC for his inputs that motivated me to continually rethink my theories, and I would like to also say �Thanks� to Eddie for allowing me a place to discuss these theories.

For the first time reader, I was trying to have a gun that didn�t rely on combustion for it�s power, I tried a few things to achieve this, they didn�t work and, it also appears the term �Combustion� may not be an accurate description of what happens in these guns.

Lets begin this theory with a bone-dry gun, no lubricant anywhere. Now every time this gun is cocked and shot, monolayers of either leather or synthetic seal are removed as well as some metal from the cylinder wall is also removed. If we believe the previous then we know a percentage of these various monolayers are suspended and then compressed in the chamber, when the gun is fired.

Now, it is believed that these guns can achieve pressures of some where between 2-3000 Psi in the chamber, and we have also heard that the compressed gases at these pressures may get up to 1500 Deg F, these values are approximate and can vary shot to shot and gun to gun. This heat and pressure will set up, a very violent environment for anything that may be suspended in it.

Lets think about these seals and these metal molecules that are suspended in the cylinder, then rapidly elevated to these temperatures. It shouldn�t matter whether they are leather or synthetic. Both are comprised of multiple molecular chains that will go through a drastic change when exposed to an environment like this, a chemical breakdown (decay) is more than likely at these temperatures. When this break down happens, some compounds may release some energy, this energy release (a Psi increase) can happen with out combustion, or with combustion, or this may only happen after an exothermic breakdown takes place (or vice versa, there are so many possible combinations). As for the metal molecules, unless your cylinder has Platinum, Palladium or some other catalytic metal in it, these molecules should not have an effect. Regardless, muzzle velocity may change due to something other than the piston forcing the air down through the transfer port.

OK, now we put a drop or 2 of lube down the port, the molecular compounds have now become infinitely more complex than before, there could be exothermic and or endothermic reactions at various temperatures/pressures during the compression stroke.

A quick analogy, you have an ice cube at 30 deg F, inside that ice cube is some wax shavings. Now you heat the ice to 50 deg F. the ice goes from a solid to a liquid, and the wax stays solid. Now you heat to 150 deg F. the water is a liquid and the wax is a liquid. Now you increase the temperature to 250 deg F, the water goes from a liquid, to a gas and releases some energy (exothermic), the wax is still a liquid. Now heat to 400 deg F. the steam is still steam, and the wax went from a liquid to a gaseous vapor (with a little to no energy release). Now we go to 1000 deg F, the steam is still steam, and the wax goes through another energy release, and if oxygen is present it burns.

I wanted to shoot my gun in a pure Helium, then Nitrogen, and then Argon environment and measure muzzle velocity, to see what effects these various gasses had. After coming to the above mentioned conclusions. I realized the data acquired during these tests could not give me the complete picture.

I�ll reference my gun for the basis of my conclusion. A B21, synthetic seal, cylinder honed and epoxy (epoxy to fill voids), and Krytox oil (an oil similar to Teflon, and non hydrocarbon).

The compounds present in my combustion chamber with each shot, not only include the compounds from the seal, oil, epoxy, and metal cylinder. But also the compounds found in the environment, Nitrogen (all values are approximate) 78%, Oxygen 20%, plus other stuff like CO2, Ne, etc, etc.

NOW those are only the gases, that does not include the various vapors like water, certain car emissions, and some industry emissions.

NOR does it include some of the air born solids, pollen, dust, etc, etc.

I won�t even talk about barometric pressure, and air temperature.

With all these factors I realized I could not put my gun in an Argon environment and conclude my muzzle velocity was affected by any 1 thing, because by putting my gun in this argon environment I would of altered too many variables rendering my data inconclusive.

Now that I have convinced myself this won�t work, I asked myself �Self� what do you think would, and self said ( Hee Hee Hee ).

To properly measure the reactions that are taking place in the chamber, you need to analyze the gas coming out, but, before you can make any conclusions on the expelled gas you need to baseline everything in and going in to the gun.

When I think about what it would take to be able to analyze what�s in and going into the gun, then dissecting the expelled gas results. It would be a very large research effort never mind the equipment needed (Auger, Residual Gas Analyzer, IR Spectrometer, etc). But if it were to be done, I believe then and only then, with that data in hand, could some one say with absolute certainty what goes on inside these chambers when we pull the trigger.

So for now I�ll just keep guessing.

Brent R. Shepard

This message has been edited by afineman from IP address 68.68.34.131 on Aug 30, 2002 5:34 PM

Posted on Aug 29, 2002, 4:28 AM
from IP address 63.214.88.65

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If you add a tiny swab of cotton with a drop of diesel....

by skans (Login skans)

fuel and stuff it inside the pellet, it will overwhelm all of these other factors, and you will know exactly what is going on! Kabooom! If this works, they you have proved that chamber pressure and temperature rise to the point that will ignite diesel fuel. Forget the spectrometer, just smell the barrel after - if it smells like a bus, it ignited the diesel fuel.

Posted on Aug 29, 2002, 7:25 AM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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A very interesting...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

post. You have some very interesting points there.

Good work.

Eddie

Posted on Aug 29, 2002, 4:24 PM
from IP address 66.50.82.148

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Steve, I believe...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

Brent is awaiting a debate, is he wrong or right?

I personally, believe he is right.

Eddie

Posted on Aug 30, 2002, 5:22 PM
from IP address 66.50.74.192

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Well, I didn't see a single "?" anywhere in Brent's post...

by Steve in NC (Login pneuguy)

...but for the record.

Phase changes that occur as the result of rising temperature like ice melting or water evaporating are ENDOthermic (heat absorbing), not EXOthermic (heat producing).

Meanwhile, I think that airgunners (I KNOW this applies to me) are generally less interested in the exact chemical reactions that occur in springers than we are in how to CONTROL those reactions and the energy they contribute to the firing cycle of our guns.

For that, we probably don't need a chemistry department full of instrumentation (which might not be all that helpful anyway) -- but just the sort of enlightened and logical trial and error Brent (and you, Eddie) are already doing.

Congrat's and please keep up the good work!

Cheers,
Steve

Posted on Aug 30, 2002, 8:47 PM
from IP address 208.61.97.181

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Thanks Steve...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

for answering. Always nice hearing from you.

You must admit, that our friend Brent is putting up some very interesting points here.

I was just wondering what thoughts you have about his theory. I just couldn't find a flaw in it.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.159 on Aug 30, 2002 9:18 PM

Posted on Aug 30, 2002, 9:04 PM
from IP address 66.50.73.159

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I am Pleased

by (Login afineman)

Steve

I am pleased that the only thing you could find with my conclusions is the fact that, I may of inversely used exothermic / endothermic improperly (I always thought exothermic meant expelling). This doesn�t matter, because, I feel (as I did when I posted) that my conclusion are correct.
As you know I am MORE than willing to be wrong (only a failure can lead you to success), your input, as well as others is encouraged. In fact with out them I would not of been able to derive this.

Brent

Posted on Aug 30, 2002, 9:20 PM
from IP address 68.68.34.131

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Wow,

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

you guys are great.

Congratulations.

Eddie

PS. I grant by this that combustion is always present, no matter what one does. Very interesting.

Thanks guys.

Eddie again.

Posted on Aug 30, 2002, 9:34 PM
from IP address 66.50.73.159

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YES but NO too

by (Login afineman)

Eddie

Yes there is combustion, but I think this term (combustion) is too black and white for this discussion.
Are there always molecules available for the chemical change (from ?? to a spent fuel source) the answer is always YES. Are they in sufficient volume to be thought about (after the gun has settled in), I believe the answer is NO, after the gun settles in and the fuel source is depleted the only thing that remains is (as far as the gun is concerned) the seal material, and how fast it is worn away, as well as the lube being slowly released ( if this gun is synthetic (seal) then all lube will be released quickly).

Eddie, I will be going back to my original set up which includes, A newer seal, a newer spring, a cylinder that is honed and epoxy ( a few time, to make it smooth), I will be applying Dow Corning Vacuum grease to the spring, lithium grease to the piston shaft, and finally I will apply 2 drops of Krytox oil through the transfer port. I expect my Chrony results to quickly return to the mid 900�s (955 using 7.9 gram Crosman pointed pellets), after I feel the gun has settled in then I will be doing a 40 different pellet type reputability / grouping test. My goal (and I believe every ones goal) is to have the perfect vermin killer and or be able to boast that there .177 gun has a � grouping at 30 yards.
I will be ordering the sample pack that has 32 of each pellet type, I will chrony, measure FPE @ impact as well as grouping of each pellet type using my B21 that is set up a mentioned.

Happy Plinking ALL

AFineMan

Posted on Aug 31, 2002, 8:04 PM
from IP address 68.68.34.131

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Brent, I'm confused. If your theory is that ALL the lube you're placing...

by Steve in NC (Login pneuguy)

...in your B21 will be "quickly worn away," then why bother putting any in the gun in the first place?

If, on the other hand, you believe (as I do) that some lubes will persist in the gun's powerplant to provide crucial lubrication, then I don't understand how you can apparently be sure that particles of silicone grease and krytox oil won't continue to be suspended in the compression chamber air and therefore available to act as fuel.

Can you clarify this point please?

Thanks,
Steve

Posted on Aug 31, 2002, 8:24 PM
from IP address 208.61.135.185

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Well?

by (Login a-fine-man)

Steve

I should of learned by now NOT to post when drinking, BUT I did and probably will continue. Steve when I said � quickly worn away� I meant to say that �all the excess lube� will be expelled. My gun has been honed and epoxy, This leaves small micro scratches, I believe these scratches are quickly filled with ( what ever your choice is ) of lube.
Once this excess lube is expelled (the gun settles in) then I believe the seal/lube/cylinder material come in to play.
A few points here! 1: I went to a pure Krytox environment to insure that NO hydrocarbons were available to the chamber (except the combustible byproducts of the seal) .
2: With this set up I still got 950 FPS with 7.9 gram Crosman pellets, I believe now ( as I did then ) that there was NO combustion (of measurable amounts) that may of increased my muzzle velocity, BUT to make sure I e-mailed the scientist at Dupont and explained the conditions I am exposing there oil to, one of the things I asked them was if the byproducts (of this environment) are combustible . I still haven�t herd back from them. Once I do I will copy the response.

Thanks again Steve for keeping me on my toes

AFineMan

Posted on Sep 1, 2002, 6:15 PM
from IP address 68.68.34.131

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chuckle

by Gary D. Mackey (Login GMACK1)

Brent,
I'll bet you dollars to donuts that the Dupont scientists are scrambling to duplicate your experiments with Krytox. I'll further bet that they'll find that their 'no burning' lube isn't all they crack it up to be.

Posted on Sep 2, 2002, 5:56 AM
from IP address 207.218.229.92

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John check this out...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

a review I did about the B-4-2 and also the comment I made about that poor review you saw on "Review Centre" about the B-4-2. My review was also given the status of "Expertly Reviewed" by "Review Centre".

http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews2165.html

Sincerely,
Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.23 on Aug 28, 2002 11:55 AM

Posted on Aug 28, 2002, 7:00 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.193

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What is the best

by John (Login B4-2er)

Air Rifle you can buy?

~John~

Posted on Aug 27, 2002, 8:17 PM
from IP address 198.81.26.233

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That's a personal pref....

by Gary D. Mackey (Login GMACK1)

...And my personal pref is a B42 in .177, or a B21 in .22. Others would say TF99, 100X, ect. It all depends on what you expect it to do, what you want to do with it, and how deep your pockets are. nt

Posted on Aug 27, 2002, 8:33 PM
from IP address 207.218.205.189

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B21 - combustion and other questions....

by Skans (Login skans)

I've ordered a B21-.22 cal, which I expect to receive shortly. The first question I have is about dieseling: this doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. In fact, I was thinking about putting a drop of kerosene or diesel fuel in the chamber to get a little more power. If the only concern is with force being directed back to the mainspring, I think I have a solution. Create a locking mechanism that locks the piston in place just as it slams shut. Has anyone tried to make one of the cheaper airguns combust - results???

Next Question: Has anyone tried to modify .22 pellets to make them more leathal - add weight to them, insert steel pins, or any other methods to make a more lethal round??

Last Question: It appears that the barrel on the B21 may be threaded - can anyone confirm this? Is there any law against making/adding a sound supressor to an airgun - has anyone tried this?

Posted on Aug 27, 2002, 8:02 AM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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Too much combustion in a magnum air gun...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

such as the B-21, will damage the seal and warp or break the main spring, these air guns can only take so much. So I do not advice you to use Kerosene or diesel fuel.

About pellets, there are some steel pointed pellets on the market. I have read about them, everyone one on the forums that have tried them say they do not work well. They are not very stable in flight.

Any sound supressor for a rifle needs a special permit in the U.S.A. and just about any where in the world. Your B-21 in .22 cal. shouldn't make that much noise at 800 fps to need a sound suppressor anyway. The super sonic sound or the Ka-pow noise is heard only when the projectile breaks the sound barrier, around 1,110 fps on up.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.239 on Aug 27, 2002 9:36 AM

Posted on Aug 27, 2002, 8:25 AM
from IP address 66.50.73.159

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Do Not put a

by John (Login B4-2er)

silencer on your b22 if the police see you with it on and you do not have a USA. Permit you will get life in jail because it is a assiandes weapon you would not need to use it on your gun any ways it would look cool tho!!

Eddie you said you saw a Win 1000X? the scope rails suck on them!! so i just could not get my scope to stay on so i took it off (fell off) and put it on my 597 .22 do u think that a scope made for air rifles would work? and the pellets i have got them in .177 cal and they work well up to 25 yardes i dont know if they make them for .22 cal i dont think that they are worth the money for $6.95 i have made my pellets lighter before but they do not fly right in WWII the germans used wood bullets that had toxics on the bullet it would hit the US army and would break on the skin then go it the blood. i will take some pic of my B42 to night to show you guys.

And Eddie do you think if i took a old main spring out of my b42 and cut it so it would be half size and put a new b42 main spring on top of the old half size b42 main spring? i would thik that it would give me more fps? i think that the main spring is made out of copper
when i get a new main spring i will try it

~John~

This message has been edited by B4-2er from IP address 198.81.26.233 on Aug 27, 2002 11:46 AM

Posted on Aug 27, 2002, 11:42 AM
from IP address 198.81.26.233

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Well John for one...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

main springs are not made of copper, they are made of spring steel, steel that is tempered to be flexable. I truly doubt that half a main spring with a new main spring will fit in your B-4-2. About the most you can fit to jack your main spring could be a washer or two on your spring's guide to jack up the power. There is only just so much space inside there and that is it. The wire of main spring is made a certain guage and so many coils so that it fits inside your air gun, a wider guage main spring with more coils will not fit inside your air gun, it won't cock completely.

About your Daisy's scope rail, you could try another scope that has different clamps to see if it holds better.

Eddie

Posted on Aug 27, 2002, 1:30 PM
from IP address 66.50.73.98

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steel tipped pellets....

by (Login skans)

Where can I get some steel pointed pellets, and what brands are there? I really want to experiment with these - I'm interested in obtaining maximum penetration at 25 yards in .22 cal.

Also, has anyone experimented with filling in their hollow pellets. How about glueing small steel ball bearings inside, or steel wire, or something that would make the lead fragment explosively upon impact?

Posted on Aug 27, 2002, 1:39 PM
from IP address 216.53.152.54

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Steel pellets

by natlite (Login natlite)

Hello, prometheus pellets (PR22)work very well in magnum air rifles that do not have a choked bore. All you will do by adding "balls" to a hollow point pellet is totally ruin your rifle and your ballistics. At 25 yards "all" lead pellets will do just fine. If want total "splattage" use a 12 gauge.. Just a rhyme. Have fun, brother!

Posted on Aug 27, 2002, 2:23 PM
from IP address 64.12.96.203

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A while back some one on...

by Eddie (Login Adiberts)
Forum Owner

the fun supply forum posted a site where they sell these steel pointed pellets, but as I said he also tried them and didn't find them very accurate, you could check there.

I have done some testing with pellets gluing in lead bbs inside the back part, but it doesn't work well the pellets tumble in flight and are not accurate.

I recommend you using Crosman pointed pellets for good accuracy and penatration. Crosman pointed pellets are more solid than other brands of pointed pellets and penatrate better than any other pointed pellets I have tried.

Eddie

This message has been edited by Adiberts from IP address 66.50.73.72 on Aug 28, 2002 3:39 AM

Posted on Aug 27, 2002, 3:40 PM
from IP address 66.50.73.98

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