Re: An apology to mennonite.......by mennonite (no login)
>> A correction.......
They only hit one house. Thats it. It wasn't an entire villiage. They say that he may have left only minutes before.
valid. i knew and said i might be mistaken about exactly what happened, for one it was something that caught my ear, and you know how things like that are.
>> An apology to mennonite.......
>> First, I'd like to apologize for abruptly changing the subject in my last post there.
unnecessary, it was a valid response to an earlier post in the same thread.
>> And second, I would just like to apologize for generaly being an ass in all our previous arguments.
i won't touch that. *I* am an ass. it happens. we are asses. until some point in time when we change that, there is little point in addressing it very often. it's been established. and it probably won't change any day soon, regardless of what level of dedication it's fought with.
>> I mean, I really like the way you think. You seem to try to look at all angles of thing, not that I don't try to do this either, but it just...makes sense.
THANKS! for all the times you've accused me of the opposite, i don't think you've given me enough credit- but that's plenty. appreciated.
>> As you know, I like it when people think for themselves, and you've proven to me that you are doing that.
again, heh, tis about time :) but i'm not gloating, i swear- just enjoying the moment. ok, i already said i'm an ass. moving on...
>> I think I've also said that we all have good intentions, and you've also proven that is true for yourself as well.
thanks. i have not been able to gauge your intentions, but lately you've either made an above average and admirable effort to be fair, or- made an incredible superhuman effort to fake it. either you are a truly astounding, amazing, incredible fake (no offense!) or- more likely you are sincere. good!
>> But what I'd like to apologize for is my atitude that I've had in all our arguments. I tend to be very confrontational in these arguments, and I think that's our entire problem. Although, you have been that way as well, so I'm not alone.
definately not alone.
>> We need to change the way we argue, if we are going to argue at all. You may ask "Well....why even argue, then?". Thats what I intend to resolve. We should create a goal for our arguments (I know it sounds stupid, but let me finish). See, I think its obvious that the two of us (and even Chandler as well) are very similiar in many ways: we all want to change the world for the better, we want everyone to be happy, and we try to think for ourselves. I apologize for acusing you of not doing that.
>> So, if we all think so similiarly, why have we reached different conclusions about things? Something is wrong there. And THAT is what I think we should try to discover. So, lets make a deal, from now on, when we argue, lets TRY to reach a logical conclusion and find an answer to these questions. Agree? I like that line from the X-Files...."The truth is out there...". SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE has to be right. I think we owe it to ourselves and the entire world to discover this and resolve our differences in pursut of a common goal.
nice thought, but there's one huge flaw with it- i'll get back to that.
oh, ok, actually that's about the end of your post.
the problem is that people aren't logical. i don't mean some people are and some are not, i mean no one is. logic is something to strive for, something to attempt, and something just a little nebulous, like "perfection."
the more complex an issue is, the closer to impossible it is for us as flawed and distractable people to process it as a pure mathematical equation- which really is what "logic" is... the language of epistemology is the conversion of real-life ideas to cold numbers and math expressions.
it's here that everything goes to hell. once you have everything as math you can see flaws in the math, but how it goes from english to numbers is pure interpretation. this pure interpretation has common ground here and there, but not enough that any great philosophical debate has ever been resolved. logic becomes a tool that is used more as a toy, an occupation for pedants and a weapon in ideological warfare.
if we fully embrace logic, we're basically pretending that we are capable of using it properly and without flaw, as if it's a means to an end. logic is really more a means to a beginning- it ups the ante, raises the stakes, and brings the whole conflict into something more involved on yet another layer.
we're going to disagree on things, even if we sit down and write books full of conversions from thought to logic.
if you think about it, the idea you're presenting is that logic can bring one of us to the other side- you're presuming that between the two of us, one of us has an argument more likely to be supported by logic.
but like i said, logic is just another arsenal. it's like a gun. if we're fighting and there's a gun on the floor, i can shoot you with it or you can shoot me with it. it's not going to protect either one of us from each other.
logic isn't going to resolve our differences either. it will be used indefinately by you to attack my points and vice versa.
people disagree - religion is the BEST example. so we can spend most of our time on how we differ or most of our time on what we have in common- and one will give hope and bring happiness and the other sour grapes and flames and arguments.
nothing wrong with logic - it just isn't a cure-all. you know, us being imperfect and all. #### happens.
i'm not rejecting your offer, new, i'll try if i can, and i'll try if i continue to see you try- but what you want for us simply can't be done by anybody- you, me, or otherwise.
|Response Title||Author and Date|
|not to say "i told you so..." but,||mennonite on Feb 2|
|9 places that the friction starts - in case you wanted to help the situation||mennonite on Feb 5|
|when the effort is worthwhile / possible i'll clean up my code and summarize my writing...||mennonite on Feb 15|
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