As a person born in Yugoslavia .... I can say that as a nation and as an ethnic group the Serbs have a lot to be proud of.
And we Slavs owe a lot to their struggle and resistance of invaders and conquerors. Often in our history ... the Serbs were the only ones who resisted invaders and resisted assimilation. And they caused Austria-Hungary, Ottoman Empire and The Third Reich ... to stumble and eventually fall. Against great odds they fought back .... and won their freedom and inspired the Slavic nations to do the same.
But please do not claim that all Slavs come from Serbs ... or even the origin of many of the Slavic national names .... Our Slavic history is more complex and more rich than that ....
For anyone wishing to discuss our Slavic history .... I would gladly do so.
You might all be surprised about our negelected past ....
Now ... is this discussion about Slovio?
I find Slovio too artificial, and unnatural .... and I feel that it does not reflect Slavic languages that well .....
I would like to have feedback and discussion with others who are native speakers of the various Slavic languages.
You can respond in any Slavic language ... I can read most of them.
How do you find Slovio?
My first concern is the use of s for plurals .... it makes no sense .. and sounds more Latin than Slavic.
What do the rest of you think?
I am glad that I am not the only one to find Slovio too artificial and unnatural. The -(i)s and -(u)f endings don't contribute its beauty and euphony (and Slavicity) at all ... In fact, I am going to construct my own pan-Slavic language (with plurals in -i as a matter of course). I have many times suggested some improvements for Slovio but none of them was accepted.
I don't think that we should impose a pan-Slavic langauge to the whole world (unlike many Slovio-ists who support the very "logical" statement: every country in the world has got some Slavic people => we are vsezemju nation => everybody should speak a pan-Slavic langauge as an international language). The ideal international language should remove the langauge discrimination (which is done by English these days) and not replace it with another discrimination (of non-Slavs by a pan-Slavic language). However, some good pan-Slavic language should exist for Slavs and for people interested in Slavic affairs.
Jsem rad, ze nejsem jediny, podle koho je Slovio prilis umele a neprirozene. Koncovky -(i)s a -(u)f mu opravdu nepridavaji na krase a libozvucnosti (ani na slovanskosti) ... Hodlam vytvorit svuj vlastni panslovansky jazyk (s mnoznym cislem na -i, samozrejme). Mnohokrat jsem Sloviu navrhoval zdokonaleni, ale zadne z nich nebylo prijato.
Nemyslim si, ze bychom meli celemu svetu vnucovat panslovansky jazyk (na rozdil od mnoha sloviistu, kteri podporuji toto velice "logicke" tvrzeni: kazda zeme na svete ma nejake Slovany => jsme vsezemju narod => kazdy by mel mluvit panslovanskym jazykem jakozto mezinarodnim jazykem). Idealni mezinarodni jazyk by mel jazykovou diskriminaci (kterou ted provadi anglictina) odstranit a ne nahrazovat ji jinou diskriminaci (Neslovanu panslovanskym jazykem). Nejake dobry panslovansky jazyk by ale mel existovat pro Slovany a pro lidi, kteri se zajimaji o slovanske zalezitosti.
I think for a Pan-Slavic language to work ... we need the feedback and collaboration from most - if not all Slavic language groups. A language cannot be artificially constructed with rules that do not make sense. Such a language will be rejected ... as was Esperanto .... regardless of all "logical reasons" for a simple grammar.
I am fascinated by the idea of a Pan-Slavic language. It reminds me of the history of the Slavic people and their struggle to preserve their language ... the Slovaci (people with words) against the constant encroachment of the Nemci (mute - people without words).
Since then our languages have diverged ... for two reasons ... foreign conquest and control .... which imposed new words into various Slavic languages. And because of new technology, cultural progress .. which saw the use of Slavic root words used to construct different meanings in various languages and the use of imported foreign words by some languages .. while others chose different foreign words or constructed Slavic variants to meet the needs of cultural and technological growth.
It also reminds me of the stories that my ancestors and relatives told me
of their experiences in both World Wars ... during which time they
traveled to many countries (unwilling conscripts of foreign armies) and
needed to resort to basic Slavic words to be understood in the nations
they found themselves in ... and where eventually they were rescued, taken
care of and then sent home by Slavic liberators. They did not use an
artificial language ... just basic Slavic words ... which were universally understood.
As a result of my place of birth ... and later immigration ... I was
fortunate to learn several Slavic languages as well as western languages.
This circumstance made me interested in history ... as well as the
linguistic history of Slavic and Romance languages ... and the English
language.
I am very interested in the development of a viable Pan-Slavic language. I see it as a great tool for communication not just for Slavic people ... but for non-Slavs as well. This could become a great commercial language and benefit all Slavic nations.
I think we need to get input from all Slavic groups.
Gabriel I can�t follow your way of thinking, first you call Slovio to be an artificial language and than you threatening us with a new artificial Slavic tongue with a plural ending of �i�.
Let�s first talk about the plural ending. The Endings of "i" and "i(s)" have one think in common: they are non-Slavic. The natural way of forming the plural in all Slavic languages is its irregularity! By the way, Slovak, Latin and the Slavic languages have, amongst others, one think in common, namely the irregularity of Plural endings. Quite a few plurals in Latin are ending with "i".
I think it´s clear to all that to much of irregularities is poison to a simplified tongue. The difference between the "i" variant and the "i(s)" is, that "i" is artificial and unnatural and the Slovio solution is a adoption from many natural, living languages (comp. esp. Spanish). We should keep in mind here, that e.g. Romance, Germanic and Slavic languages are Indo- European languages and the boring of words etc. from each other is a never ending process.
Slovio is first of all an inter-Slavic language, created out of all existing living Slavic tongues. But it is also a simple key for non-Slavic speakers to open the gates to all Slavic dialects.
Slovio ne es sintetikju jazika podobju na primer Esperantio. Slovio ciel es statit kak gorju Germanio (Hochdeutsch) i takak mnoguo existju Creole jazikas (n.p. Lingua Franca).
Som Slovak a ked som prvy krat cital webstranku slovio, rozumel som takmer 95% textu. To je dobre. Podla mojho nazoru, najvacsia vyhoda Slovio je eliminacia slov ktore niesu v Slovanskych jazykoch spolocne. Napriklad slovensky pozdrav je "Ahoj a "Zdravim", rusky je "Privet" a "Zdorovo". A Slovio moze pouzit nieco ako "Zdravim" alebo "Zdravie" lebo rusi aj slovaci tomu budu rozumiet, takze Slovania ktory pouzivaju Slovio si medzi sebou budu lepsie rozumiet.
I am Slovak and when I first read slovio web page, I understand almost 95% of text. So it is good. In my opinion, most benefits of Slovio is to eliminate words which is not common in Slavonic languages. For example slovak greetings is "Ahoj" and "Zdravim", russian greetings are "Privet" and "Zdorovo". And Slovio should use something like "Zdravim" or "Zdorovo" because than both russian and slovaks will understand that, so Slavs which use Slovio is more easy to understand between each other.
Mislijm zxe Slovio slov “Zdrav” bu razumit o zve Slovanis. Li imajm pravda?
Mezxin: Pisat slovis bez samogloskis (vidij Arabju bukvas) mozxime razkritijt poviazenie.
Bujme probit so vsedenju slov “mlek” i so Indo-Europju jazikas:
There are many good reasons why Slovio is the way it is. Perhaps some of the forms seem a bit unnatural or artificial, but it is only because you are not used to it. Slovio vocabulary is made up of the most common words from all the slavic languages. The slovio creators and developers have the electronic dictionaries of all slavic languages and thus can instantly compare and chose the best alternative. If you have a better idea how a Slovio grammar should look: you are welcome to make suggestions, but make suggestions about the entire grammar and not just a bit here and there. Because one has to consider the entire grammar and make it fit together, it has to be unambiguous and at the same time understandable. I think that all will agree, that all Slavs, no matter where they come from, without prior learning understand 90 - 95 % of Slovio texts. Slovio is in our history the only language which has accomplished this. So if you have better ideas, you can write them here and they will be taken into considaration. Slovio is not a dead language, it is a living language of 400 million people and it has to develop with the people and with the world.
Slovio ... is not the best viable alternative ... yet!!
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March 18 2006, 4:40 AM
Eugeniux and Slovio Enthusiast
I am including here the post I made under the Interlingua thread:
I have just checked out this language ... and had absolutely NO TROUBLE
understanding it INSTANTLY!! .... and none of the Latin languages are my mother tongue ... and all were learned later on in life ...
Yet Interlingua follows the logical construction in spelling, verb conjugation, plurals, tenses and sentence structure... that are instantly understood by the French, Spanish, Portuguese, and Italians.
So I find this language simpler and easier for Latin Speakers to use ... because Interlingua did not stray from the natural structure of Latin based languages.
Slovio in many ways has strayed from the natural structure of the Slavic languages ... and requires 10 times more interpreting and thinking than does Interlingua.
This is something that we need to realize!
Interlingua is proof of a logical structure .... which does not betray the origins and the natural flow and beauty of Latin based languages.
And thus Interlingua will survive ... I do not see the same thing with Slovio if changes are not made.
Slovio is too artificial Interlingua is easy and natural.
We need feedback and discussion from all Slavic speakers .... so a truely pan-slavic language can be created. Understood quickly and naturaly ... by all Slavs. And a language that can then evolve into a living language bacause it will not be artificially constructed.
Slovio is a great start ... and a great idea! But changes need to made.
Re: Slovio ... is not the best viable alternative ... yet!!
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March 22 2006, 7:52 PM
Please don't admire Interlingua. It may be easy to read but it is almost impossible to write or speak. It is full of irregularities, difficulties, illogical features etc. An ideal pan-Slavic language should be simplified from Slavic languages the same as Ido is simplified from Romance languages.
Neobdivuj prosim interlinguu. Muze byt snadna na cteni ale je temer nemozne ji psat nebo mluvit. Je plna nepravidelnosti, slozitosti a nelogicnosti. Idealni panslovansky jazyk by mel byt pro slovanske jazyky tim, cim je ido pro romanske jazyky.
