Here is a sample transcription from the home page of Slovio.com:
I used some of the ideas of changed sentence structure and keeping
things more natural for Slavs and for foreigners.
Нови межународни язик!
Што су Словио? Словио су нови межународни язик ктор разумит чтирсто милион луди на цела земла. Ви можете употребит Словио дла гворение со чтирсто милион славни Луди от Прага до Владивосток от Санкт Петербург через Варшава до Варна от Средземни Морие и от Северни Морие до Тихи Океан. Словио имат проста, логицка граматика и Словио су идеални язик дла днесни луди. Учи Словио тпер!
Словио имат уж почти 40 тисич слови, имени и виражении. То cy боле слови чем нектор "природни" язики! Учи Словио, учи универсални славиански язик тпер! Ми искат язикни наукники и переводители ктор хцет сотрудит со нам во тут огромни проект.
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Novi mezzunarodni jazik!
Szto su Slovio? Slovio su novi mezzunarodni jazik ktor razumit cztirsto milion ludi na cela zemla. Vi mozzete upotrebit Slovio dla gvorenie so cztirsto milion slavni Ludi ot Praga do Vladivostok; ot Sankt Peterburg czerez Varszava do Varna; ot Sredzemni Morie i ot Severni Morie do Tihi Okean. Slovio imat prosta, logicka gramatika i Slovio su idealni jazik dla dnesni ludi. Uczi Slovio tper!
Slovio imat uzz poczti 40 tisicz slovi, imeni i virazzenii. To su bole slovi czem nektor "prirodni" jaziki! Uczi Slovio, uczi universalni slavianski jazik tper! Mi iskat jazikni naukniki i perevoditeli ktor hcet sotrudit so nam vo tut ogromni proekt.
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and the original:
Novju mezxunarodju jazika!
Sxto es Slovio? Slovio es novju mezxunarodju jazika ktor razumijut cxtirsto milion ludis na celoju zemla. Slovio mozxete upotrebit dla gvorenie so cxtirsto milion slavju Ludis ot Praga do Vladivostok; ot Sankt Peterburg cxerez Varsxava do Varna; ot Sredzemju Morie i ot Severju Morie do Tihju Okean. Slovio imajt prostju, logikju gramatia i Slovio es idealju jazika dla dnesju ludis. Ucxijte Slovio tper!
Slovio imajt uzx pocxti 40 tisicx slovis, imenis i virazxenies. To es plus slovis cxem nektor "prirodju" jazikas! Ucxijte Slovio, ucxijte universalju slaviansk jazika tper! Iskame jazikaju nauknikis i perevoditelis ktor hce sotrudit so nams vo tut ogromju proekt.
Tvoi tekst es dobrju i bolsx rozumju dla ludis iz Slovakia i Polakia, ale ne dla ludis iz Rosia. Mark Hucko bil genialnju, bo on tvoril jazik dla vse slavju ludis, ne tolk dla nams (Polakis i Slovakis). Ti ne lubijesx "s", ti hcejsx pisat "i", ale to ne es dobrju dla ne-Slovianis, ktor imajit problemis iz to.
I would like to know what other Slavs think? What do the Russians and south Slavs think about this language ... seems there are very few of them on this forum.
As far as foreigners go .... the formation of plurals is not the problem hindering the learning of Slavic languages. It is, as I have mentioned in previous posts, sentence structure, declensions/cases and conjugation ...
these present problems to foreigners ... and these I feel have not been adequately addressed in Slovio or Slavido/Sloveno.
A person coming from a language that has no declensions and other complexities that Slavic languages have ... cannot comprehend the structure.
It is a whole different way of thinking .. of logic .. that goes beyond the simple use of "s" or "i" .... and beyond using foreign/latin words.
I would like to know what other Slavs think? What do the Russians and south Slavs think about this language ... seems there are very few of them on this forum.
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The language is very simple to understand (because I little know srpski i czech jaziki) but it's a little hard to write in Slovio for me.
Ti ne lubijesx "s", ti hcejsx pisat "i", ale to ne es dobrju dla ne-Slovianis, ktor imajit problemis iz to.
Should we give up our natural Slavic plural ending -i in favour to -s only so that our language would be more pleasant to speakers of Anglo-Romance languages? Why? Do Romance speakers adjust their pan-Romance languages so that these languages would be closer to Slavic languages? No. So why shouldn't we behave the same?
Meli bychom se vzdat sve prirozene slovanske pluralove koncovky -i ve prospech -s jenom proto, aby byl nas jazyk prijemenjsi mluvcim angloromanskych jazyku? Proc? Prizpusobuji Romani sve panromanske jazyky tak, aby byly blizsi slovanskym jazykum? Ne. Tak proc bychom se meli chovat jinak?
Sorry, but the original is much better than your proposal, that means, I can not see a single spark of improvement.
1.cx – cz
If you use the Polish way of writing, than be consequent and use rz instead of the disharmonic “zz”. Let us write the word journal:
zxurnal, zzurnal, rzurnal.
2.There is another reason why Slovio uses “cx”, namely the freedom of using words in the Slovio text from other languages. E.g. “ imajm genialju szus” One may ask whether “szus” is Polish or a new Slovio word?
By the way it is Polish meaning crazy idea, Schnapsidee. I suggest to use this word in Slovio as “sxus”. Izvinijm, no tvoi “zz” i "su" es smesxju sxus.
3.es – su
Almost all Indo-European languages use something similar like “es”: jest, je, jes, es (Spanish), est, itd.. Do I have to write now suijm instead of esijm (jestem).
4.Your plural ending (-i, -a and -ni) is to complicated and you can easily mix it up with your adjectives
What is the singular of slovi? Slovo,slova, slovi, slovu or slove?
5.Whereas Slovio has clearly different endings for adjectives, plural and vocativ, namely: -ju, i(s), and (i)j, you have “i” for all of them. Novi, slovi i uczi.
6.Last not least: “Logicka” What is the noun and the adverb of this word? Look at Slovio: logik, logikju, logikua, very simple and logic is it not?
Sorry, but the original is much better than your proposal, that means, I can not see a single spark of improvement.
1.cx – cz
If you use the Polish way of writing, than be consequent and use rz instead of the disharmonic "zz". Let us write the word journal:
zxurnal, zzurnal, rzurnal.
2.There is another reason why Slovio uses "cx", namely the freedom of using words in the Slovio text from other languages. E.g. "imajm genialju szus" One may ask whether "szus" is Polish or a new Slovio word?
By the way it is Polish meaning crazy idea, Schnapsidee. I suggest to use this word in Slovio as "sxus". Izvinijm, no tvoi "zz" i "su" es sxus.
3.es – su
Almost all Indo-European languages use something similar like "es": jest, je, jes, es (Spanish), est, itd.. Do I have to write now suijm instead of esijm (jestem).
4.Your plural ending (-i, -a and -ni) is to complicated and you can easily mix it up with your adjectives
What is the singular of slovi? Slovo,slova, slovi, slovu or slove?
5.Whereas Slovio has clearly different endings for adjectives, plural and vocativ, namely: -ju, i(s), and (i)j, you have "i" for all of them. Novi, slovi i uczi.
6.Last not least: "Logicka" What is the noun and the adverb of this word? Look at Slovio: logik, logikju, logikua, very simple and logic is it not?
sorry but I do no understand you. On one hand you write your texts in English
and on the other, you kriticise everything concerning "west".
Once you are trying to write in Slovio and on the other in English.
before I do answer your questions I need to know who you are an what nationality you have. Also I would like to know why you are not trying it all to write Slovio (it least I´m trying!).
I mostly agree with you, Eugeniusx. In fact, Slovio's grammatical structure is quite good (much better than that of Slavido, Sloveno and other half-baked proposals) but the main problem of Slovio is the non-Slavicity of the endings.
1) Quite an interesting proposal and we could adopt it. However, is the Polish rz really pronounced the same as Slovio's zx? I don't know, I only ask. I heard some people who tended to say that rz is pronounced similarly to Czech ш (r with caron) which is said to be the most rare sound all over the world - it may sound like zx to foreigner's ears but in fact, it is closer to r.
2) The use of unaltered foreign words should be restricted to minimum because if the foreign word's spelling is preserved, an avarage speaker cannot know how to pronounce the word.
3) However, we are not making a pan-Indoeuropean language but a pan-Slavic language.
4) Completely agree. However, it's possible to make more Slavic plural ending than -(i)s (with even less number of possible confusions than in Slovio, as I show in my translations of Slovio developers' sentences) and Slovio didn't seize the opportunity.
5) Completely agree. Such confusions like novi, slovi a uczi (which all have got the same ending but function completely differently in terms of grammar) is inadmissible in a good pan-Slavic language.
6) Completely agree. Every word has to preserve its own untouchable root and only endings should be changed in order to change the grammatical meaning of the word.
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Z velke' c'asti s tebou souhlasi'm, Eugeniusxi. Ve skutec'nosti je gramaticka' struktura Slovia celkem dobra' (mnohem leps'i' nez ta Slavida, Slovena a dals'ich nedomys'leny'ch na'vrhu'), ale hlavni' proble'm Slovia je neslovanskost jeho koncovek.
1) Celkem zajimavy' navrh a mohli bychom ho pr'ijmout. Vyslovuje se ale polske' rz opravdu stejn'e jako zx Slovia? Ja to nevi'm, jen se pta'm. Slys'el jsem nektere' lidi, kter'i meli tendenci tvrdit, z'e rz se vyslovuje podobn'e jako c'eske' ш (r s ha'c'kem), ktere' je pry' nejvza'cn'ejs'i'm zvukem na sv'et'e - cizincovy'm us'i'm mu'z'e zni't jako zx, ale ve skutec'nosti je bliz's'i' k r.
2) Pouz'i'va'ni' nezm'en'eny'ch cizi'ch slov by m'elo byt omezeno na minimum, protoz'e pokud je pravopis cizi'ho slova zachova'n, nemu'z'e pru'merny' mluvc'i' v'edet, jak dane' slovo vyslovit.
3) My ale netvor'i'me panindoevropsky' jazyk, ny'brz' panslovansky' jazyk.
4) Naprosto souhlasi'm. Je ale moz'ne' ud'elat slovans't'ejs'i' plura'lovou koncovku nez' -(i)s (dokonce s mens'i'm poc'tem moz'ny'ch zmatku', jak jsem uka'zal ve svy'ch pr'ekladech v'et vy'voja'r'u' Slovia) a Slovio tuto pr'i'lez'itost nevyuz'ilo.
5) Naprosto souhlasi'm. Takove' zmatky jako novi, slovi a uczi (ktere' vs'echny maji' stejnou koncovku, ale fungujн gramaticky naprosto rozdi'ln'e) jsou nepr'i'pustne' v dobre'm panslovanske'm jazyce.
6) Naprosto souhlasi'm. Kaz'de' slovo si musi' zachova'vat svu'j nedotknutelny' kor'en a pouze koncovky by me'ly by't m'en'eny pro zm'enu gramaticke'ho vy'znamu slova.
1) Quite an interesting proposal and we could adopt it. However, is the Polish rz really pronounced the same as Slovio's zx? I don't know, I only ask. I heard some people who tended to say that rz is pronounced similarly to Czech Е™ (r with caron) which is said to be the most rare sound all over the world - it may sound like zx to foreigner's ears but in fact, it is closer to r.
Well, my understanding is, that there is no equality of sounds of letters between different dialects, e.g. the German “t” is pronounced differently than the English “t” etc.
Zx and rz is similar to the French sound “j” in journal. Anyhow the “r” in rz is pure Slavic. Compare the word river: rzeka (pl), řeka (cz) and reka / rijeka (yu).
Gabriel pisal:
2) The use of unaltered foreign words should be restricted to minimum because if the foreign word's spelling is preserved, an average speaker cannot know how to pronounce the word.
Please, no restriction! Using foreign words does not mean that they will become Slovio words. It is just a help to look for a good translation, e.g. szus i sxus or bird-flu-hysteria – ptak-grip-histeria.
Gabriel pisal:
3)However, we are not making a pan-Indoeuropean language but a pan-Slavic language.
You are right the first big step is to create a pan-Slavic language!
4) Completely agree. However, it's possible to make more Slavic plural ending than -(i)s (with even less number of possible confusions than in Slovio, as I show in my translations of Slovio developers' sentences) and Slovio didn't seize the opportunity.
2) The use of unaltered foreign words should be restricted to minimum because if the foreign word's spelling is preserved, an average speaker cannot know how to pronounce the word.
Please, no restriction! Using foreign words does not mean that they will become Slovio words. It is just a help to look for a good translation, e.g. szus i sxus or bird-flu-hysteria – ptak-grip-histeria.
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Дла мна - ми могут употребит цудзи слови кад ми не имат славиански слови.
Но слови как "плус" не су добро, потом что ми имат слови Славиански как "боле/болше" и "виац/вечи"
Дла Славиански луди етот лучсце(лепше) и дла цудзи луди етот помогут ним научит други славиански слови ктор имат ти слови как корени - например
болшинство/вечшина.
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Dla mna - mi mogut upotrebit cudzi slovi kad mi ne imat slavianski slovi.
No slovi kak "plus" ne su dobro, potom czto mi imat slovi Slavianski kak "bole/bolsze" i "viac/veczi"
Dla Slavianski ludi etot luczsce(lepsze) i dla cudzi ludi etot pomogut nim nauczit drugi slavianski slovi ktor imat ti slovi kak koreni - naprimer
bolszinstvo/veczszina.
I am not a Slavic polyglot and I don't know exactly, which languages use bole/bolsze and which viac/veczi. I only know that the former is used in Russian and the latter is used in Czech. But I think that plus is understandable for all Slavs, while viac/veczi wouldn't be understandable to Russians, and bole/bolsze wouldn't be understandable to Czechs.
Let's look at primary schools. Already in the first class at the age of about seven, a Czech learner learns what plus is and uses this knowledge for the whole time of his or her future live. You can hardly find a Slav who doesn't know what plus is. The idea of adding something to something is contained in plus and I think that every Slav would understand that it means more. However, an avarage Czech learner will never learn what bolsx is. (Maybe only if (s)he would concentrate at the ninth class' history lesson where (s)he could learn that bolsheviki were called so because the root bolsx means more in Russian.)
A Russian learner also learns what plus is in very early age but (if he won't learn other Slavic languages) will never learn what viac/veczi is. That's why I promote plus.
Nejsem slovansky polyglot a nevim presne, ktere jazyky pouzivaji bole/bolsze a ktere viac/veczi. Pouze vim, ze to prvni se pouziva v rustine a to druhe v cestine. Ale myslim, ze plus je srozumitelne vsem Slovanum, zatimco viac/veczi by nebylo srozumitelne Rusum, a bole/bolsze by nebylo srozumitelne Cechum.
Podivejme se na zakladni skoly. Uz v prvni tride ve veku sedmi let se cesky zak dozvi, co je to plus a tuto znalost pouziva po cely svuj budouci zivot. Sotva najdete nejakeho Slovana, ktery by nevedel, co je plus. Myslenka pridavani neceho k necemu je v plus obsazena a myslim, ze kazdy Slovan by rozumel, ze to znamena vice. Prumerny cesky zak se ovsem nikdy nedozvi, co znamena bolsx. (Leda snad ze by daval pozor v devate tride pri hodine dejepisu, kde by se mohl dozvedet, ze bolsevici se tak jmenovali proto, ze bolsx v rustine znamena vice.)
Rusky zak se take v ranem veku dozvi, co je plus, ale nikdy (pokud se nebude ucit dalsi slovanske jazyky) se nedozvi, co je to viac/veczi. Proto prosazuji plus.
хмммм ....
Ето ес проблем ... я знат что южни славиани използат "боле" и Украинци я думат кажут "билже". Полиаци имат как Словаци и Чеси
Ето ес проблем тож с "х" и "г" . Я думат что толк Словаци, Чеси и нектор Украинци имет "х". Остатни имат "г"
Ли ми могут използат "ежте" - потом что многи имат ежте или ежчо?
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hmmmm ....
Eto es problem ... ja znat czto juzzni slaviani izpolzat "bole" i Ukrainci ja dumat kazzut "bilzze". Poliaci imat kak Slovaci i Czesi
Eto es problem tozz s "h" i "g" . Ja dumat czto tolk Slovaci, Czesi i nektor Ukrainci imet "h". Ostatni imat "g"
Li mi mogut izpolzat "ezzte" - potom czto mnogi imat ezzte ili ezzczo?
Dla mna - mi mogut upotrebit cudzi slovi kad mi ne imat slavianski slovi.
Exactly. In my opinion, using of unaltered foreign words (don't confuse with "ordinary" foreign words, like plus or libra) should be used only as an emergency brake when a Slavic word is neither created, nor create-able.
Presne. Podle meho nazoru by pouzivani nezmenenych cizich slov (nezmanujte je s "obycejnymi" cizimi slovy jako plus nebo libra) by melo byt pouzivano pouze jako zachranna brzda kdy je slovanske slovo nevytvorene a nevytvoritelne.
Re: Sxus
No score for this post March 21 2006, 8:38 PM
I mostly agree with you, Eugeniusx. In fact, Slovio's grammatical structure is quite good (much better than that of Slavido, Sloveno and other half-baked proposals) but the main problem of Slovio is the non-Slavicity of the endings.
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I competely agree with this. 150%.
Ja slazxu sasvim s ovo.
(my reduction of serbian using slovio gramar principle in an amateur way,
I just can't swallow the Slovio endings but i admire and love and respect the grammar part.
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2) The use of unaltered foreign words should be restricted to minimum because if the foreign word's spelling is preserved, an avarage speaker cannot know how to pronounce the word.
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I agree with this too. I heard that Croats do this alot. They leave all the foriegn names in original.
e.g.:
Proslog ljeta Richard Gere je posjetio dalmaciju.
Last summer Richard gere has visited dalmatian coast.
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The most difficult thing for me as a Serb would be to not use the -JESTE, -JE
confirmation word.
e.g.
Ovo je lepo.
This is beautiful.
Do other Slavic languages have this?
What about Slovio?
Tento text je jednoduchsi, lepsie zrozumitelny a praktickejsi.
Preco neprepracovat trochu Slovio, aby sa trochu podobalo aj na slovencinu, cestinu, polstinu, slovincinu a choractinu,
a nevyzeralo ako nejaky rusky "dialekt" zo zapadnej Sibire.
Nech sa trochu aj rusi, bielorusi a ukrajinci prisposobia zapadnym slovanom.
alebo to bude vzdy len jednostranne ?
Ми хцет зделат славиански язик дла все луди.
Так нам нужда(нада) так робит чо все славиани би разумал(пониал).
И кажд нам нужда(нада) научит нови слови от други славиански язики(х).
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Mi hcet zdelat slavianski jazik dla vse ludi.
Tak nam nuzzda(nada) tak robit czo vse slaviani bi razumal(ponial).
I kazzd nam nuzzda(nada) nauczit novi slovi ot drugi slavianski jaziki(h).
Dobre, tak to potom podme robit spolocne.
Davajte navrhy a po urcitej zhode to prijmeme ako smerodatne, co bude plati v tomto jazyku. Postupne sa dopracujeme aj k nejakemu vysledku.To nemusi byt hned to chce cas, ale bude to spravodlive, vytvorene vsetkymi a pre vsetkych.
- zz looks like zz in pizza to me... but whatever zx is fine too
Szto su Slovio?
- es sounds better to me
Slovio su novi mezzunarodni jazik ktor razumit
-razumijut sounds better to me
cztirsto milion ludi na cela zemla. Vi mozzete upotrebit Slovio dla gvorenie so cztirsto milion slavni Ludi ot Praga do Vladivostok; ot Sankt Peterburg czerez Varszava do Varna; ot Sredzemni Morie i ot Severni Morie do Tihi Okean. Slovio imat prosta, logicka
-the root logik sounds better
gramatika i Slovio su idealni jazik dla dnesni ludi. Uczi Slovio tper!
Slovio imat uzz poczti 40 tisicz slovi, imeni i virazzenii. To su bole slovi czem nektor "prirodni" jaziki! Uczi
-Ucxijte sounds fine too (no difference to me)
Slovio, uczi universalni slavianski jazik tper! Mi iskat jazikni naukniki i perevoditeli ktor hcet sotrudit so nam vo tut ogromni proekt.
-All in all, both are comprehensible but I think the Slovio version would be more regular with the same endings everywhere.
Novju mezxunarodju jazika!
Sxto es Slovio? Slovio es novju mezxunarodju jazika ktor razumijut cxtirsto milion ludis na celoju zemla. Slovio mozxete upotrebit dla gvorenie so cxtirsto milion slavju Ludis ot Praga do Vladivostok; ot Sankt Peterburg cxerez Varsxava do Varna; ot Sredzemju Morie i ot Severju Morie do Tihju Okean. Slovio imajt prostju, logikju gramatia i Slovio es idealju jazika dla dnesju ludis. Ucxijte Slovio tper!
Slovio imajt uzx pocxti 40 tisicx slovis, imenis i virazxenies. To es plus slovis cxem nektor "prirodju" jazikas! Ucxijte Slovio, ucxijte universalju slaviansk jazika tper! Iskame jazikaju nauknikis i perevoditelis ktor hce sotrudit so nams vo tut ogromju proekt.
SLOVIANSKI:
Novi mezzunarodni jazik!
Szto su Slovio? Slovio su novi mezzunarodni jazik ktor razumit cztirsto milion ludi na cela zemla. Vi mozzete upotrebit Slovio dla gvorenie so cztirsto milion slavni Ludi ot Praga do Vladivostok; ot Sankt Peterburg czerez Varszava do Varna; ot Sredzemni Morie i ot Severni Morie do Tihi Okean. Slovio imat prosta, logicka gramatika i Slovio su idealni jazik dla dnesni ludi. Uczi Slovio tper!
Slovio imat uzz poczti 40 tisicz slovi, imeni i virazzenii. To su bole slovi czem nektor "prirodni" jaziki! Uczi Slovio, uczi universalni slavianski jazik tper! Mi iskat jazikni naukniki i perevoditeli ktor hcet sotrudit so nam vo tut ogromni proekt.
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In addition to that, here's my version in SLOVIANSKI-N. I'd like to hear if this is easy to understand for Slavic people:
Novi medžunarodni jazik!
Čo je Slovio? Slovio je novi medžunarodni jazik ktori rozumejut četiristo milion liudiov na celej zemie. Vi možete upotrebit' Slovio dla gvorenia s četiristo milion Slavskimi Liudiami ot Pragi do Vladivostoka; ot Sankt Peterburga prez Varšaviu do Varni; ot Sredzemnego Moria i ot Severnego Morja do Tihego Oceana. Slovio ima prostu, logičnu gramatiku i Slovio je idealni jazik dla denesih liudiov. Učij se Slovio tper!
Slovio ima už počti 40 tisiač slova, imena i viraženia. To je bole slov čem nektore "prirodne" jaziki! Učij se Slovio, učij se universalni slavski jazik tper! Mi iskamo jazikovedov i prevoditeliov ktori hočut spoltrudit' s nam v tom ogromnom projekte.
Нови меджународни язик!
Чо йе Словио? Словио йе нови меджународни язик ктори розумеют четиристо милион людиов на целей земие. Ви можете употребить Словио дла гвореня с четиристо милион Славскими Людями от Праги до Владивостока; от Санкт Петербурга през Варшавю до Варни; от Средземнего Моря и от Севернего Моря до Тихего Оцеана. Словио има просту, логичну граматику и Словио йе идеални язик дла денесих людиов. Учий се Словио тпер!
Словио има уж почти 40 тисяч слова, имена и вираженя. То йе боле слов чем некторе "природне" язики! Учий се Словио, учий се универсални славски язик тпер! Ми искамо язиковедов и преводителиов ктори хочут сполтрудить с нам в том огромном пройекте.
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Novi medћunarodni jazik!
Čo je Slovio? Slovio je novi medћunarodni jazik ktori rozumejut četiristo milion liudiov na celej zemie. Vi moћete upotrebit' Slovio dla gvorenia s četiristo milion Slavskimi Liudiami ot Pragi do Vladivostoka; ot Sankt Peterburga prez Varљaviu do Varni; ot Sredzemnego Moria i ot Severnego Morja do Tihego Oceana. Slovio ima prostu, logičnu gramatiku i Slovio je idealni jazik dla denesih liudiov. Učij se Slovio tper!
Slovio ima uћ počti 40 tisiač slova, imena i viraћenia. To je bole slov čem nektore "prirodne" jaziki! Učij se Slovio, učij se universalni slavski jazik tper! Mi iskamo jazikovedov i prevoditeliov ktori hočut spoltrudit' s nam v tom ogromnom projekte.
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Pretty good, but three things:
Why did you insert the d back into medzxunarodni? It was fine before and in Russian it comes after the zx so I guess that solves a little bit of the ambiguity. Then you took the l out of zemla. Make up your mind :O
What does prez mean? Never heard it before.
Why did you write Oceana? Are you using the English spelling or will it actually be pronounced otseana?
If it were up to me, I'd just take the MOST SIMPLE forms of the words available. Because in slang and very quick speech you can hear them more easily. So instead of spoltrudit' I would prefer sotrudit'.
-- Why did you insert the d back into medzxunarodni? It was fine before and in Russian it comes after the zx so I guess that solves a little bit of the ambiguity. Then you took the l out of zemla. Make up your mind :O
I also take Common Slavic into account, not as a separate Slavic language but as the source where the words and sounds come from. The sound in question was dj, which became dz in West Slavic, zx in East Slavic and zxd in South Slavic. The Russian word mezxdu is a cerkiewism; the "real" Russian word would be (or was?) mezx(u), cf. Ukrainian mizx.
dzx seemed like a fair compromise between dz, zx and zxd, and it also corresponds nicely with cx (from kt/tj; West Slavic c, East Slavic cx, South Slavic c', sxt).
-- What does prez mean? Never heard it before.
"through". You think cxerez is better?
-- Why did you write Oceana? Are you using the English spelling or will it actually be pronounced otseana?
Polish has "ocean" [otsean] too. I don't know what South Slavic does. I suppose both "ocean" and "okean" could work.
-- If it were up to me, I'd just take the MOST SIMPLE forms of the words available. Because in slang and very quick speech you can hear them more easily. So instead of spoltrudit' I would prefer sotrudit'.
Possibly. I wanted to avoid the language from becoming too Russian. As for the simple forms, I basically agree with you, except that sometimes the less simple form will be easier to understand. Let's look at the word protiv/proti/przeciw etc.: proti would be simplest, but protiv easier to understand even for those who are used to proti. Hence protiv.
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I also take Common Slavic into account, not as a separate Slavic language but as the source where the words and sounds come from. The sound in question was dj, which became dz in West Slavic, zx in East Slavic and zxd in South Slavic. The Russian word mezxdu is a cerkiewism; the "real" Russian word would be (or was?) mezx(u), cf. Ukrainian mizx.
dzx seemed like a fair compromise between dz, zx and zxd, and it also corresponds nicely with cx (from kt/tj; West Slavic c, East Slavic cx, South Slavic c', sxt).
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if it corresponds to cx then write gx
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"through". You think cxerez is better?
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Yeah, but I'm biased because I actually understand what cxerez means
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Possibly. I wanted to avoid the language from becoming too Russian. As for the simple forms, I basically agree with you, except that sometimes the less simple form will be easier to understand. Let's look at the word protiv/proti/przeciw etc.: proti would be simplest, but protiv easier to understand even for those who are used to proti. Hence protiv.
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I'm speaking more along the lines of consonant clusters because those are already simplified a lot in the languages anyway. Like the monstrocity zdravstvujte is pronounced zdraste in colloquial Russian. So if you said draste which would be another step in simplification, you would be understood 100% accurately. But if you said zdravejte like in Bulgarian you will not be understood as clearly. So an in-between form of the word has be as simple as both of those combined. Zdrav could work here. I just took two languages into consideration, if one takes more it could be even simpler than that.
Also, I realize why the creators of slovio used the word plus. It's understood as "more" by every Slavic language speaker. You could even take the word cxao and make it mean "bye." And there would be no conflict in understanding or learning this word!
So the goal of the vocabulary is to be as simple as possible without sacrificing comprehension. Of course sometimes letters are dropped in one language and not in another. I could propose a system like:
sied/e/m where each letter followed by a slash could be elided so a Russian speaker would say siem while a speaker of another language would say siedem or siedm or whatever that person wants in regards to those two letters
it would work the same way with ko/rolestvo a Russian speaker would say korolestvo and a Czech speaker would say krolestvo
in writing it would be kind of confusing though
maybe a system like this then:
kyrolestvo
y could be a schwa
in Russian most vowels get reduced to a schwa in that position anyway
myloko
the corresponding cyrillic letter for this would be ъ as it represents a schwa in Bulgarian as in български
That would work if we'd follow the "x" spelling. But in Slovianski, we'd rather avoid it. At present, we're leaning towards a spelling with haceks, with a "cz/sz" etc. as an allowed alternative. And well, g-hacek is not exactly a character everybody has on his keyboard. And neither would the word "megzunarodni" be very convincing!
-- "through". You think cxerez is better? -- Yeah, but I'm biased because I actually understand what cxerez means
And how about pre?
-- I'm speaking more along the lines of consonant clusters because those are already simplified a lot in the languages anyway. Like the monstrocity zdravstvujte is pronounced zdraste in colloquial Russian. So if you said draste which would be another step in simplification, you would be understood 100% accurately.
Wouldn't that be a little "drastic"?
-- But if you said zdravejte like in Bulgarian you will not be understood as clearly. So an in-between form of the word has be as simple as both of those combined. Zdrav could work here. I just took two languages into consideration, if one takes more it could be even simpler than that.
Except that simplification of the pronunciation is not my primary purpose in this. Every Slav can pronounce the sequence "zdr-". If a non-Slav would have a problem with that, I wouldn't mind if he said [z@dr-] or [zd@r-], but I don't really see the point of modifying the spelling accordingly.
-- Also, I realize why the creators of slovio used the word plus. It's understood as "more" by every Slavic language speaker. You could even take the word cxao and make it mean "bye." And there would be no conflict in understanding or learning this word!
Fair enough. I'm not so sure about the word "plus", but a non-Slavic word here and there surely won't disturb, as long as every Slav can understand it.
BTW, I don't really have a problem with Slovio's lexicon. In fact, I think it's quite good! My only problem with the language is its un-Slavic grammar + a few minor orthographic issues.
So the goal of the vocabulary is to be as simple as possible without sacrificing comprehension. Of course sometimes letters are dropped in one language and not in another. I could propose a system like: sied/e/m where each letter followed by a slash could be elided so a Russian speaker would say siem while a speaker of another language would say siedem or siedm or whatever that person wants in regards to those two letters
An interesting idea! I only fear that this will make things harder for potential users.
-- maybe a system like this then: kyrolestvo. y could be a schwa
Again, not a bad idea! We actually discussed this. The reason why I oppose such a scenario is that it makes the languages harder to read for people who know one or more Slavic languages. In such positions, y is attested nowhere. You would end up with kyrol, gyrod, mylot, myleko, pyred, syreda, vyrota, zyloto etc. Without knowing the rules of the language, it won't be obvious to people where these words actually come from.
-- in Russian most vowels get reduced to a schwa in that position anyway
myloko
Not always: zoloto, gorod, molot, pered etc.
-- the corresponding cyrillic letter for this would be ъ as it represents a schwa in Bulgarian as in български
I agree that in Cyrillic it would look better: кърол, гърод, мълот, мълеко, пъред, съреда, върота, зълото.
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Except that simplification of the pronunciation is not my primary purpose in this. Every Slav can pronounce the sequence "zdr-". If a non-Slav would have a problem with that, I wouldn't mind if he said [z@dr-] or [zd@r-], but I don't really see the point of modifying the spelling accordingly.
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sure, but not every Slav can pronounce the sequence chc-
and that is something that should be changed
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Again, not a bad idea! We actually discussed this. The reason why I oppose such a scenario is that it makes the languages harder to read for people who know one or more Slavic languages. In such positions, y is attested nowhere. You would end up with kyrol, gyrod, mylot, myleko, pyred, syreda, vyrota, zyloto etc. Without knowing the rules of the language, it won't be obvious to people where these words actually come from.
zoloto, gorod, molot, pered etc.
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Yeah, when those vowels are under stress it is even harder to understand when a word is missing them. But what to do?
Put the yers back in? That would actually work when you got used to it because after you know how YOUR language reduced the yers you can read the words easily.
dьnь in Russian:
1. last yer is weak, previous to last is strong, before that is weak, before that is strong, etc.
2. turn strong yers into their counterparts: denь
день in cyrillic
dьnь in Polish:
1. last yer is weak, previous to last is strong, before that is weak, before that is strong, etc.
2. turn strong yers into their counterparts: denь
3. palatalize: dzień
wow this actually made more sense than I thought
but using yers would suck anyway because then someone would say let's use yat and then someone will say let's use yuzes
we should just switch to chinese hanzi and THEN we will understand each other only after learning several thousand characters :O
but why not the following system:
just use the next vowel in those words
we'll get meleko, zoloto, gorod, molot, pered
is that too Russian for you :D
because it is very hard to understand when vowels under stress are not even present in a word
mleko is not has hard to understand as zloto (looks like evil-that)
so maybe IF the vowel is under stress we include it
if it's not we drop it:
using slovio gramar principle in an amateur way, 