Gabriel pisal:
So "j" had been abolished, but "cz", "sz" and "zz" were still in use. After some time, I realised the possibility to use the "j" for the puropose of "softening" of "c", "s" and "z" and I publish this idea for the first time in this proposal. There are also other possibilities to write the sounds of Slovio's "cx", "sx" and "zx" - they should also be discussed. Six years ago, Slavic appearence wasn't considered vary much while creating the Latin orthography of the pan-Slavic language, so this mistake should be corrected now.
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You are the last one to demand Slavic appearance.
The abolishing of the j letter makes your language view odd. For example ia looks more like the sound of a donkey than the 1. person singular. Cx and sx are not soft.

As I already told you zz will confuse 45 million Slavs. But please do not make the mistake introducing rz instead. Because this will confuse all Slavs: rzeka = reka. By the way with your invention of pan- for 2. person polite form you again confuse 45 million Slavs, because standard Polish like Spanish, but unlike other Slavic languages, use the 3. person for the polite form

Neither zx nor zz nor zj are looking “Slavic”. Best would be to use only one letter for one sound.

So I suggest: cx, gx, sx and zx or č, ğ, š and ž.

Neither zx nor zz nor zj are looking “Slavic”.

Yes, they are not used for this sound in any Slavic language. But if we speak about Slavic appearence, zz and zj look definitely more Slavic than zx. The letter x naturally doesn't occur in Slavic languages very much so if it is used too often, it strikes the reader's eyes - the same as it is in Slovio. The letters z and j are already common in Slavic languages, so zj or zz wouldn't break the Slavic appearence very much.

Best would be to use only one letter for one sound.

So I suggest: cx, gx, sx and zx or č, ğ, š and ž.

Your cx, sx and zx look non-Slavic, as I wrote above. The diacritical letters are difficult to use on computers.

The abolishing of the j letter makes your language view odd. For example ia looks more like the sound of a donkey than the 1. person singular.

I personally don't mind ia too much. But I don't want to make the same mistake as Slovio creator did, so I want to discuss this. To allow to write j- at the beginning of words would certainly add more Slavicity. It would even create no conflicts with cj, sj and zj. It would only be less elegant because j would be used for two tasks then. What do others think?

Cx and sx are not soft.

Yes, linguists usually don't call as "softening" the process of change from c to cx, from s to sx and from z to zx. But it could be called so: Hard d, t, n and l are created in front of the mouth. Soft d, t, n and l are created at the back of the mouth. In the same way c, s and z are created in front of the mouth, while cx, sx and zx are created at the back of the mouth. Therefore I feel the writing these sounds by means of the softener j as appropriate.

As I already told you zz will confuse 45 million Slavs. But please do not make the mistake introducing rz instead. Because this will confuse all Slavs: rzeka = reka.

I agree.

By the way with your invention of pan- for 2. person polite form you again confuse 45 million Slavs, because standard Polish like Spanish, but unlike other Slavic languages, use the 3. person for the polite form

When I look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-V_distinction , I see:

               singular informal  singular formal  plural informal  plural formal



Russian        ty                 Vy               vy               vy



Polish         ty                 pani, pan        wy               panstwo, panie, panowie

Czech          ty                 Vy               vy               vy

Slovak         ty                 Vy               vy               vy



Serbian        ti                 Vi               vi               vi

Bulgarian      ti                 Vie              vie              vie

Croatian       ti                 Vi               vi               vi

Bosnian        ti                 Vi               vi               vi

Slovenian      ti                 Vi               vi, ve           Vi



GS-Slovianski  tu                 panu             ti               pani

Are vy, vi and vie third person pronouns?

pan, on, gvorijt!

My English teacher always says: "Speak in sentences, please." Try to obey this command, then I will understand you.

Pan gvorijt ( sir he speaks). On gvorijt. I ne: pan gvorisx. usted habla i ne: usted hablas. Er spricht i ne: er sprichst. Esli esxte nerasumijsx konsultij tvo poucxitel!

OK, now I understand.

Yes, I know that the root pan is used as a general noun and not as a second person pronoun in natural languages. I just couldn't find a better root for formal pronouns (if v is already reserved for pronouns that don't distinct formality/intimacy).

Ukranian distinguishes between c' and cx

So what will cj read like? c' (soft c)? I don't think so

If you just say it's a diacritic that makes your alveolars and denti-alveolars into post-alveolars

To me (as a Slav whose native language doesn't know the difference between c' and cx), these two consonants sound almost the same. Consequently it doesn't matter how they will be pronounced by Slavs who know the distinction.

Ukranian c' is WAY different from cx. Maybe in Polish they sound alike. But in Ukranian c' sounds more like c than cx. In fact the IPA for the Ukranian c' is ts with a little j at the top.

Don't you think that can be confused?

Let me record a sample.

first is c then c' then cx

If I said c' you'd think it's c

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:C_c'_cx.ogg

Sorry, but this file seems to be empty ... I hear nothing.

1. Do you have the capability to play .ogg files?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogg

2. Did you make sure your speakers or headphones are turned on? Did you try turning up the volume?

Because I can hear it.

I tried to re-download it and now I can hear it ...

I can't deny that in this file, c^j sounds really more like c than like cx. But I don't consider it to be a problem. In Slovio, I also don't try to pronounce cx, sx and zx as [cks], [sks] and [zks] although it would be natural according to my native language. Therefore Ukrainians also shouldn't try to pronounce cj, sj and zj as their c^j, s^j, z^j. They will learn this pronunciation rule in about 3 seconds and then they will read without problems.

that's true
I'm just pointing out there is no way to make a perfect latin alphabet with ASCII

the czech alphabet is really good though

in Slovio x is just like a hacxek, but on the right side instead of on top

in your version it's the j
I don't see much difference

The cx looks much less Slavic to me than cj ... In natural Latin-alphabet Slavic languages, x occurs quite rarely, it is used only to spell some foreign words. On the other hand, j is very frequent. That's why I find cj more Slavic and better-looking than cx.

Yes, it isn't possible to design a 100%ly perfect system. But we can try to approach perfection as much as possible.

Whatever works, man

Since you avoided ambiguity and only use j for one purpose, I'm all for it

Gabriel will soon change his mind.

Shall I expect a special Eugeniusx Brainwashing Commando which will break into my flat and replace my brain with a more Slovio one? :-D

no, he'll just abuse you and torture you and in an effort to forget the horrible thing he's done to you, you'll forget everything that happened recently

then you'll go to a hypnotist that will use the power of suggestion to suggest you loved Slovio and you'll be sure that those are your "repressed" memories when they are really not

Ja predskazal:
Gabriel will soon change his mind.
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Gabriel otvetil:
Shall I expect a special Eugeniusx Brainwashing Commando which will break into my flat and replace my brain with a more Slovio one? :-D
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Mision soverhilju, mozg zamenilju:

Gariel stopped using cj, sj and zj.

Blagodarij Boguslav!
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Now he is using "ij" for adjective endings.

mision ne sto procent soverhilju. Bujeme delat na soverhenie!

Eugeniusx