I don't know how Cxilia could be confused with Cxinia.
There is nothing wrong with Kubia. Kuba is an island, Kubia is a state on that island.
Yes, my system is completely unapliccable to names of more words. That's why I leave them in the original form now. In the future, my personal idea would be to make up one-word names instead of the multi-word names ... But I don't know how strongly I should promote this idea. As you could see, my Usonia instead of USA didn't become very popular.
So the most pan-Slavic form would probably be (no wonder) Polska. Using standard methods, we would get Polskia in GS-Slovianski ... I personally think that nobody could be angry with the Latin Polonia.
If I say "all country names end in -ia", it doesn't imply "all words ending in -ia are country names". In the same way, if you say "country names have no special ending", it doesn't imply "all words with no special ending are country names".
In the ending of country names you sometimes will find a meaning some information which with your egalitarination this will be lost. -tan, -land, lands, -ia etc.
So the EU made a mistake by naming its yugolavian puppet states: So I suggest: Kosovostan, Bosnistan, Kroatenreich and Serbienlands (watch the plural!).
The reason is derivation and backward compatibility (as always ). If we want to have adjectives afganski, belgski, francuzski, izraelski and inhabitants afganijec, belgijec, francuzijec, izraelijec, then during derivation the name of the country, we have to replace these endings (-ski, -ijec) correctly with one ending, not with two or more. Therefore Afgania, Belgia, Francuzia, Izraelia.
So do you want the learner to have to learn the country name and the inhabitant name separately with no derivational relation between them? Thanks, I don't ...
So what about the following system? I wouldn't be happy about it, but it could be an acceptable compromise.
There are three cathegories:
1) countries end in -ia, inhabitants are formed by truncating the -ia
2) countries end in -a, inhabitants are formed by replacing -a with -an
3) countries end in a consonant or in e, i, o, u, inhabitants are formed by adding -anec
I am not sure about Slavicity of these suffixes, they can be possibly improved.
Gabriel pisal:
Country names have been changed to their natural form. Welcome to Afganistan, Angola, Argentina, Bahami, Bahrejn, Belize, Benin, Bocvana, Brazil, Brunej, Burundi, Butan and Kamerun!
===
din stup vpred, velvelju!
I have originally thought about this system, too. However:
- If we want to have the forms "a member of that ethnicity" and "an inhabitant of a country where the memebers of that ethnicity are a majority", we also have to have a third form: a middle-way between these two, when the distinction is irrelevant or unimportant.
- If we want to have this for -ia countries, we have to have it for other countries, too.
So three forms multiplied by three cathegories = 9 different suffixes. Are we able to find them? I am afraid that we aren't.
_________________
By the way, I would change the suffix for the inhabitant of the third cathegory from "-anec" simply to -ec. We don't need too long suffixes.
najprv by si mal poriadne vytvorit jazyk, ktory chces a az potom s konecnou platnostou by si ho mal uverejnit na nejakej web stranke a nie ho stale prerabas uz uverejneny.
I.
P.S. Preto ja este ten svoj neuverejnujem. Bude az potom, ked bude s hotovou platnostou definitivne ukonceny.
Samozr'ejm'e tvoje odu'vodn'eni' neh'a'm str'etnout se s my'mi odu'vodn'en'imi a pokud se tvoje uka'z'e jako leps'i', neni' proble'm tvoje r'es'eni' dane'ho proble'mu akceptovat.
In a schematic language, the words "to learn" and "to teach" can never be solved in a completely natural way because in natural Slavic languages, they differ only by their reflexivity. If we choose that "to teach" will be ucxit, which word shall be used for "to learn", then? I don't know any other suitable Slavic word for it. We would have to take some Romance one. Romance languages have "apprender" but I don't think that any Slav would understand e.g. aprendet' as "to learn".
That's why I chose "to learn" = ucxit. For "to teach", we can choose words that are completely understandable to Slavs, e.g. my instruktirovat' = "to teach", "to instruct". Slovio's poucxit' might also be a good option.
I had to read this five times to understand it because this contruction is quite archaic in Czech. We say (literally translated):
On ucxit tu student tu matematika. (teach)
On ucxit sa (reflexive pronoun) matematika. (learn)
Your system could certainly work, but I think that it would be too confusing to have two meanings for one verb ... Instead of the verb "to learn", we could use a synonym "to study" - studiovat'. I think that it would be understood by all Slavs.
On instruktirovat matematika k studiovatel'. = On instruktirovat studiovatel' ob matematika. On studiovat matematika.
I do not see your problems, may you please explain to me?
For me to learn is: either naucxit se(ba) transitive verb or ucxit se(ba) intransitive verb
For me to teach is: ucxit
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Sorry Igor, I am just trying to teach myself Russian (one of the reason I am working on MZxR, but is it not also in Russian that you say for to teach ucxit and for to learn ucxit-sja?
On http://www.langmaker.com/db/User:Gabriel_Svoboda/GS-Slovianski/Vocabulary , the Basic vocabulary has been completed. Currently, GS-Slovianski has got 355 lexical units that should suffice for the most basic communication. So if you think that some of these 355 words could be solved in a better, more natural, more Slavic way, go ahead and propose a change!
as far as corka, we have dcerka, cerka, corka, don'ka, docxer', dasxter'a
don't you think it should begin with a d?
docerka should be understandable to a lot more than corka and it even sounds like daughter (docer) hooray
door should be vrota because south slavic doesn't have dveri
hvilina is cool and all, but Russian speakers not familiar with Ukrainian won't understand it, but minuta is more international
I'll use Russian/Ukrainian/Polish/Slovak/Serbian/Bulgarian right now because those are the dictionaries I have open (czech dictionary I use is down at the moment) so that's two from each branch
for name we have im'a, imja (no palatalized labials in Ukranian), im'e, meno, ime, ime
should be one of the three: ime, im'a, imeno
for idea we have ideja, ideja, idea, idea, ideja, ideja
but remember something that's written idea is pronounced more likely as ideja anyway
for year we have god (in some forms let), rik (closed o to i change), rok, rok, godina/leto
let's avoid confusion and call it rok we don't need leto getting confused with lete or whatever your form is
for ship we have korabl'/lodka (boat), korabel'/lodka, statek (?), korab/lodny, ladja, korab/lodka
I guess lodka should be used (not lod'a) for a boat... maybe lod'a for a big boat? or korab?
for night we have nocx, nicx, noc, noc, noc', nosxt
it should be nocx or noc
for picture we have WAY too many words
but obraz doesn't mean the same in all the languages
zobrazen'e should match izobrazxenie and zobrazxenn'a more closely while being close to obraz
pr'atel? EVERY language has prijatel but Czech, even Slovak
sedmica for week? kind of hard to understand for those languages who don't have that word
we got nedel'a, tizxden', tidzxen', tizxden', nedel'a/sedmica/t'edan, nedel'a/sedmica
it seems like a toss up between tizxden and nedel'a because the south slavic languages also have nedel'a
spec'alist? it's specijalist in every language on the list (probably not in Czech, but I can understand the bias)
vek for age.. making sure it's age as in "vek dinosaurovaj" instead of "ktori tvoj vek?" because I'd agree with the former, but disagree with the latter
beast is zver in most of the languages, not zvere
btw did you read my proposal on verbs? my verb list would be:
blistat - to shine
blogodarit - to thank
bojat-se - to fear
brat - to take
celit-se - to aim
čestvat - to feast
činit - to act
čitat - to read
čut - to feel, to perceive
delat - to do
deponirovat' - to lodge **WTF** this applies to money only not even fixing this one
derat - to hold, to grasp
dostavat - to obtain, to get, to receive
dvigat - to move
fotografirat - to photograph
funkcionirat - to function
gl'adat - to behold, to look at
govori' - to speak
hotet - to want
hvatat - to grab <- changed meaning
idit - to go
igrat - to play
imat - to have
informirat - to inform
inkontrat - to meet <- sorry that's too English for me
instruktirat - to teach
interesat - to interest
izmenit - to change
jes - to be (irregular)
jesnat - to exist
jedat - to eat
kalkulirat - to calculate
kazat se - to seem
kidat - to throw
klan'at - to salute, to greet <- huh
končit' - to end
kontaktovat - to contact
kupit - to buy
letet - to fly
leat - to lie (down)
lomat - to break
l'ubit - to love
mislit - to think
mogut - to can, to be able to
mret - to die
dolzxit - to ought, to must
načinat - to commence
nadejat - to hope
najdit - to find
nedostat - to be absent
nosi' - to carry
nravi' - to please
obiskat - to search
odevat - to clothe
organizovat - to organize
ostavit - to leave, to let alone
ostat - to remain
otkrit - to open
otnosit se - to be related to
otveti' - to reply
označat - to signify, to mean
padat - to fall
pam'at - to memory
pečat - to print
perevodit - to translate
pisxat - to write
pit - to drink
platit - to pay
pojavl'at - to appear
pokazat - to show
poloit - to put, to place
pomogat - to help
posetit - to visit
poslat - to send
poviat - to prefer
povtor'at - to repeat
pozvol'at - to allow, to permit
predsedat - to preside <- lol
predstavl'at - to present
pričin'at - to cause
priglaat - to invite
prigotovit - to prepare
prihodit - to come (on foot)
prijehat - to come (not on foot)
primat - to accept
probovat - to try
prodavat - to sell
proigrivat - to lose (game or competition)
proizvodit - to produce
projektovat - to design, to purpose
prosit - to request, to beg, to demand, to ask
prostit - to forgive
puteestvat - to voyage
putovat - to journey, to travel
raportovat - to report
raskazivat - to tell
rekomendovat - to recommend
redaktirovat - to redact
reat - to decide
rezat - to cut
rodit - to bear, to produce
sedet - to sit
skazat - to say
sledit - to follow
sluit - to serve
smejat se - to laugh
sobirat - to collect
sočin'at - to work (literary)
soglosit se - to consent
sovetovat - to advise, to counsel
spat - to sleep
stavat se - to happen
strojet - to construct, to build
stojat - to stand
stojit - to cost, to price
torgovat - to trade
trebovat - to need
trudit - to labor
udar'at - to hit
rozumet - to understand
učit - to learn
ucxit se - to study
udivl'at - to wonder
umivat - to wash
upotrebit - to use
upravl'at - to direct
uvaat - to esteem
varit - to cook
verit - to believe
vibrat - to choose
videt - to see
vinosit - to endure, to last
virastat - to grow, to increase
viset - to hang
vojevat - to fight
vospevat - to sing
vospitivat - to discipline
vozviat - to lift, to rise
zabit - to forget
zabotit se - to care, to anxiety
zadovolat - to satisfy
zamečat - to remark
zanimat - to occupy
zatvorit - to close
zav'azat - to bind, to tie
znat - to know, to recognise
zvučat - to sound
elat - to desire
it - to live
I used my rule and I changed some words
and why are your adjectives ending with -i?
You will have things like dobri devcxa? bogati zxenka?
Thank you very much for your construcitve reaction!
daughter:
RUS дочь
UKR донька
POL córka
CES dcera
Slk dcéra
SRP k'cerka
BUL дъщеря
Mkd ќерка
The most common is dcerka. But the cluster dc- would probably be pronounced [c] anyway, so I left the d- out. Inserting the -o- between d and c can also be a posibility. So I have no problem with docera.
name:
RUS имя
UKR iм'я
POL imię
CES jméno
Slk meno
SRP ime
BUL име
Mkd име
The result is ime.
idea:
Yes, ideja is clearly more common.
year:
RUS год
UKR рік
POL rok
CES rok
Slk rok
SRP godina
BUL година
Mkd година
So Slavic languages are very divided in terms of this. But you are probably right that rok is the most common.
ship, boat:
In Czech, we have loďka - (small) boat, loď - (big) ship, koráb - very big ship, a little bit archaic word. Dictionaries won't help us very much in terms of this because they try to give as many synonyms as possible. So lod'ka for boat and lod'a/korab for a bigger ship would be perfectly understandable to me. What do other Slavs think?
night:
RUS ночь
UKR ніч
POL noc
CES noc
Slk noc
SRP noc
BUL нощ
Mkd ноќ
So noc is a little bit more common.
picture:
Yes, there are really many words for it. In the heaps of synonyms, I could find that kartina is east Slavic + Bulgarian, obraz is west Slavic and slika is Serbian and Macedonian. So if we simply couted votes, kartina would be adopted. Would zobrazen'e be understandable to other Slavs than the west ones?
friend, specialist:
Yes. In fact, I just forgot to change it after we made the agreement about using i. So I adopt prijatel, specijalist.
So tižden' is the most common. By the way nedel'a would be unacceptable because it means "Sunday" to some Slavs.
age:
For me, it sounds good in both meanings ... I don't know. Dictionaries won't help us very much here because the English word "age" has got both meanings, too.
zobrazen'e is like izobrazxenije in Russian, zobrazxenn'a in Ukrainian, obraz in Polish, izobrazxenie in Bulgarian, etc. it's present in all Slavic languages
vek only means a hundred years or age as in a period of time in Russian
In terms of "age", I looked at http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/age . This word is said to have 12 meanings here, but the basic ones we speak about are two:
1) The whole duration of a being, whether animal, vegetable, or other kind; lifetime.
vs.
7) A particular period of time in history, as distinguished from others, (the golden age, the age of Pericles).
8) A great period in the history of the Earth.
For the first meaning we have:
Russian: возраст
Polish: czas życia, długość życia
For the second meaning we have:
Russian: эпоха, эра, время, век
Polish: epoka, era
Slovak: vek (but words epocha and éra exist, too)
So based on this, I think that we can completely avoid the word "vek" and have vozrast for the first meaning and era (or epoha) for the second meaning.
Gabriel pisal:
friend, specialist:
Yes. In fact, I just forgot to change it after we made the agreement about using i. So I adopt prijatel, specijalist.
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Specijalist. To stranju, velm (ocxin) stranju dla mne! Porovnij: --, --.
deponirovat' - to lodge **WTF** this applies to money only not even fixing this one
hvatat - to grab <- changed meaning
inkontrat - to meet <- sorry that's too English for me
klan'at - to salute, to greet <- huh
stavat se - to happen
Thank you for the third person forms. I adopt čestvat', dvigat', fotografirat', funkcionirat', idit', informirat', instruktirat', interesat', kalkulirat', najdit', nedostat', obiskat', pišat', putešestvat', smejat', strojet'.
In terms of "to exist", I can see almost no agreement in Slavic languages ... That's why I adopted Russian существовать without change. Have you got a better idea? What about international egzistet'?
to must:
West Slavic languages and Ukrainian have muset, South Slavic languages have morat/trebat, Russian has got dolžit ... So Slavic languages don't agree very much about this, but muset' is probably the most common in my opinion. We also adopted rok when only West Slavic langauages and Ukrainian agreed on it.
to satisfy:
You are right, zadovolat' is more common.
to lodge:
Yes, you are right, I meant "to reside". Polish and Ukrainian have meškat' ... Does anybody have a better idea?
hvatat':
You are right, "to grab" is more apposite.
to meet:
Yes, inkontrat' is completely un-Slavic. It is Romance because I could see absolutely no agreement on this verb in Slavic languages ... What do you propose?
to salute, to greet:
RUS приветствовать
UKR вітати
POL witać, pozdrowić
CES vítat, pozdravit
Slk pozdravit, vítať
SRP pozdraviti
BUL поздравявам
Mkd поздравува
So pozdrovit' would probably be the best. The verb klon'at' is probably a result of my wrong looking to the dictionary.
to happen:
The verb stavat (se) exists in Ukrainian, Czech, Slovak. The verb slučat (se) is in RUssian, Bulgarian, Macedonian ... So I would probably prefer the latter.
Reflexive verbs (se) shouldn't be kept, there is no reason for this ...
I meant that we don't need verbs that are inherently reflexive and their non-reflexive form either doesn't exist or has got a completely different meaning. For example in Czech, the verb smat se is inherently reflexive and smat on its own makes no sense. Does it really make sense in other Slavic languages?
Of course, the distinction between washing and washing oneself is needed:
On mit ego. He washes him. On mit sebe. He washes himself.
On http://www.langmaker.com/db/User:Gabriel_Svoboda/GS-Slovianski/Vocabulary , names of countries and their capitals have been completed. I did all the geographical names with maximum care, so you may be pretty sure that the GS-Slovianski form is really the most natural Slavic one. I did four exceptions only:
- Certain lands' most natural name ended in -landija. Using standard derivation methods, inhabitants of these countries would end in -land (if the country name ends in -ija, the inhabitant is formed by truncating this ending). It would be quite odd because the root "land" originally means "country". Therefore I changed -landija either to -land or to -ija, depending on what was more natural Slavic.
- The most natural Slavic name of France would be Francija. An inhabitant of this country would be franc. It is nothing bad, but still the most common name for "a French" is francuz. Therefore I changed also the name of the country to Francuzija. I think that nobody will be angry because of this.
- The most natural Slavic name of Germany would be Nemecina. Its inhabitant would be nemcinan (if the country name ends in -a, change it to -an to get the inhabitant). However, all Slavs call a German nemec. That's why I changed Nemecina to very similar Nemecija.
- The most natural Slavic name of Poland would be Polska, so the inhabitant would be called polskan in GS-Slovianski. However, all Slavs naturally call this person polak. That's why the country is finally named Polakija in GS-Slovianski.