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GS-Slovianski

August 12 2006 at 5:08 PM
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I launched a page http://www.langmaker.com/db/User:Gabriel_Svoboda/GS-Slovianski where I will write all parts of the grammar of my version of Slovianski as I have it in my mind.

Vocabulary and Geographical names will be added step by step.

Today, I added General description and Alphabet and Pronunciation.

Please discuss here.

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 13 2006, 11:40 PM 

Rules about accent, nouns and proper names have been added to http://www.langmaker.com/db/User:Gabriel_Svoboda/GS-Slovianski .

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 14 2006, 12:38 AM 

Wait, you have names like Afgania?
Slavs call it Afganistan. All Slavs do.

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 14 2006, 6:32 AM 

Because by means of unified ending for countries (-ia) we can have a regular system.

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 14 2006, 6:42 AM 

Enjoy your Cxilia and Cxinia confusion

And what are you going to call some of the nations? Antiguia i Barbudia? Novaj Guineaia?
Centralnaj Afrikanskaj Respublikia?

KUBIA?

Hongia Kongia? Or will you just go with Hong Kongia?

This is a good one: Niueia

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 14 2006, 7:26 AM 

I don't know how Cxilia could be confused with Cxinia.

There is nothing wrong with Kubia. Kuba is an island, Kubia is a state on that island.

Yes, my system is completely unapliccable to names of more words. That's why I leave them in the original form now. In the future, my personal idea would be to make up one-word names instead of the multi-word names ... But I don't know how strongly I should promote this idea. As you could see, my Usonia instead of USA didn't become very popular.

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 14 2006, 8:28 AM 

Kubia is the magical land of cubes

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 14 2006, 9:08 AM 

We could also use perfectly Slavic kostka for "cube" ... But I think that the confusion of kub with Kuba/Kubia isn't so dangerous.

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 14 2006, 11:06 AM 

kostka is a die not a cube
kostki = dice

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 14 2006, 11:07 AM 

But I bet some people will be angry with Polia/Polandia

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 14 2006, 11:27 AM 

I would accept Sleskia i Silesia and Polska i Polakia. But for sure neither Fidel nor me will accept Kubia

Eugeniusx

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 14 2006, 11:32 AM 

Yes, Polakia could work, too.

Hopefully, during creating of a langauge, I don't have to care about dictators' personal preferences.

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 14 2006, 11:29 AM 

rus: Pol'sxa
ukr: Pol'sxcxa
pol: Polska
ces: Polsko (slk: Pol'sko)
srp: Poljska
bul: Polsxa (mkd: Polska)

So the most pan-Slavic form would probably be (no wonder) Polska. Using standard methods, we would get Polskia in GS-Slovianski ... I personally think that nobody could be angry with the Latin Polonia.

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 15 2006, 12:50 AM 

I added a description of Cases, Adjectives, Comparison, Personal and possessive pronouns and Correlatives to http://www.langmaker.com/db/User:Gabriel_Svoboda/GS-Slovianski .

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 15 2006, 4:38 AM 

I liked Eugeniusx's objection.

Show me on the map where we find Maria, Organizacia, Civilizacia, Komunikacia and Revolucia.

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 15 2006, 8:09 AM 

If I say "all country names end in -ia", it doesn't imply "all words ending in -ia are country names". In the same way, if you say "country names have no special ending", it doesn't imply "all words with no special ending are country names".

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 15 2006, 10:21 AM 

In the ending of country names you sometimes will find a meaning some information which with your egalitarination this will be lost. -tan, -land, lands, -ia etc.
So the EU made a mistake by naming its yugolavian puppet states: So I suggest: Kosovostan, Bosnistan, Kroatenreich and Serbienlands (watch the plural!).

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 15 2006, 11:32 AM 

Ah, but then there is NO reason to use a special ending. You memorize the entire word. Why is having to memorize the ending any help?

Instead of Afgania, Belgia, Francia
Afgan, Belg, Franc

Both sound crappy and both make as much sense to me

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 15 2006, 6:47 PM 

The reason is derivation and backward compatibility (as always ). If we want to have adjectives afganski, belgski, francuzski, izraelski and inhabitants afganijec, belgijec, francuzijec, izraelijec, then during derivation the name of the country, we have to replace these endings (-ski, -ijec) correctly with one ending, not with two or more. Therefore Afgania, Belgia, Francuzia, Izraelia.

 
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iopq

Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 16 2006, 4:03 AM 

And also Sxvecia to make Sxvecijec, am I right?
Oh, wait, we call them Sxvedi.

Latvia to make Latvijec?
Oh wait they're Latisxi.
although Litonia -> Litonijeci is a good serbian-like way to call them

Litvia for Litvijec?
Now I'm confused they are litovci or litvini but now I can't even tell between Litonijeci and Litvijeci

Germania to make Germanijec?
Wait, they're Nemci.

Afgania to make Afganijec?
No, thanks, I'll stick with Pusxtuni

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 16 2006, 6:25 AM 

So do you want the learner to have to learn the country name and the inhabitant name separately with no derivational relation between them? Thanks, I don't ...

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 16 2006, 7:05 AM 

Sorry, but that's the reality... unless you want weird countries with weird people in them.
We could have a loose correlation where possible

But come on, if I said I am going to Pakia, how long would it take you to figure out what country that is?

Time yourself right now. Think hard. What's Pakia? Where is Pakia?

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 16 2006, 7:26 AM 

So what about the following system? I wouldn't be happy about it, but it could be an acceptable compromise.

There are three cathegories:

1) countries end in -ia, inhabitants are formed by truncating the -ia
2) countries end in -a, inhabitants are formed by replacing -a with -an
3) countries end in a consonant or in e, i, o, u, inhabitants are formed by adding -anec

I am not sure about Slavicity of these suffixes, they can be possibly improved.

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 16 2006, 9:50 AM 

Country names on http://www.langmaker.com/db/User:Gabriel_Svoboda/GS-Slovianski have been changed to their natural form. Welcome to Afganistan, Angola, Argentina, Bahami, Bahrejn, Belize, Benin, Bocvana, Brazil, Brunej, Burundi, Butan and Kamerun!

So our current task is to find the best system of derivation the inhabitant names from country names. I have already proposed one here.

 
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Eugeniusx

Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 16 2006, 11:07 AM 

Gabriel pisal:
Country names have been changed to their natural form. Welcome to Afganistan, Angola, Argentina, Bahami, Bahrejn, Belize, Benin, Bocvana, Brazil, Brunej, Burundi, Butan and Kamerun!
===
din stup vpred, velvelju!

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 16 2006, 8:45 PM 

If names end with -ia...

we could have something like
francijec
italijec
ispanijec
anglijec

now we could say that this standard derivation identifies someone as a citizen of a particular country

as in
Zenadin Zedan je francijec, no on ne je francuz.

We could have other names for ethnicities.

Miroslav Kloze je polskaj germanijec. Ne je nemec.



 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 17 2006, 8:26 AM 

I have originally thought about this system, too. However:

- If we want to have the forms "a member of that ethnicity" and "an inhabitant of a country where the memebers of that ethnicity are a majority", we also have to have a third form: a middle-way between these two, when the distinction is irrelevant or unimportant.
- If we want to have this for -ia countries, we have to have it for other countries, too.

So three forms multiplied by three cathegories = 9 different suffixes. Are we able to find them? I am afraid that we aren't.

_________________
By the way, I would change the suffix for the inhabitant of the third cathegory from "-anec" simply to -ec. We don't need too long suffixes.

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 17 2006, 1:07 PM 

We have two different things:
1. Ethnicity
2. Nationality

for nationality we just use -ijec

afganistanijec, pakistanijec, etc.

for ethnicity we use the weighed majority vote system (between languages, the biggest languages getting more votes):
pushtun, pundzxabec, etc.


what happens when country name matches majority ethnicity name? nothing happens

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 17 2006, 1:25 PM 

Confusion happens.

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 17 2006, 2:15 PM 

The pronoun to and verbs have been added. Some minor corrections were made. Look at http://www.langmaker.com/db/User:Gabriel_Svoboda/GS-Slovianski !

 
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I.

Opravy na webe.

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August 17 2006, 5:55 PM 

Ahoj Gabriel,

najprv by si mal poriadne vytvorit jazyk, ktory chces a az potom s konecnou platnostou by si ho mal uverejnit na nejakej web stranke a nie ho stale prerabas uz uverejneny.

I.

P.S. Preto ja este ten svoj neuverejnujem. Bude az potom, ked bude s hotovou platnostou definitivne ukonceny.


 
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Re: Opravy na webe.

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August 17 2006, 7:53 PM 

Ja' m'am se spolupraci' pouze pozitivni' zkus'enosti. Nema'm du'vod d'elat vs'eh'no s'am jako Zamenhof.

 
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I.

Info.

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August 19 2006, 1:08 PM 

Ahoj Gabriel,

takz'e, ked ti napis'em nejake moje pripomienky a odovodnenia, tak ich budes'
akceptovat ?

I.

 
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Re: Info.

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August 19 2006, 3:22 PM 

Samozr'ejm'e tvoje odu'vodn'eni' neh'a'm str'etnout se s my'mi odu'vodn'en'imi a pokud se tvoje uka'z'e jako leps'i', neni' proble'm tvoje r'es'eni' dane'ho proble'mu akceptovat.

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 19 2006, 7:16 PM 

Adverbs, Prepositions, Conjunctions and a not yet complete proposal of Numerals have been added to http://www.langmaker.com/db/User:Gabriel_Svoboda/GS-Slovianski .

Words are being added to http://www.langmaker.com/db/User:Gabriel_Svoboda/GS-Slovianski/Vocabulary . Continents, Mountain ranges and Oceans are already complete.

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 22 2006, 6:14 PM 

Numerals and Word order have been added to http://www.langmaker.com/db/User:Gabriel_Svoboda/GS-Slovianski . Thus this page, describing morphology and syntax, is more or less complete. Word formation will be described on a separate page ( http://www.langmaker.com/db/User:Gabriel_Svoboda/GS-Slovianski/Word_formation ; only Prefixes are available now).

As always, all comments and suggestions are welcome!

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 26 2006, 9:21 PM 

On the subpage http://www.langmaker.com/db/User:Gabriel_Svoboda/GS-Slovianski/Word_formation , suffixes and compound words have been described.

On the subpage http://www.langmaker.com/db/User:Gabriel_Svoboda/GS-Slovianski/Vocabulary , names of seas have been finished, and many other words are continously added.

 
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iopq

Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 26 2006, 11:44 PM 

I don't understand the opet- suffix because it's pere- in Russian.

and I thought to teach was ucxit


 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 27 2006, 8:55 AM 

Yes, '''pere-''' could work, too ...

In a schematic language, the words "to learn" and "to teach" can never be solved in a completely natural way because in natural Slavic languages, they differ only by their reflexivity. If we choose that "to teach" will be ucxit, which word shall be used for "to learn", then? I don't know any other suitable Slavic word for it. We would have to take some Romance one. Romance languages have "apprender" but I don't think that any Slav would understand e.g. aprendet' as "to learn".

That's why I chose "to learn" = ucxit. For "to teach", we can choose words that are completely understandable to Slavs, e.g. my instruktirovat' = "to teach", "to instruct". Slovio's poucxit' might also be a good option.

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 27 2006, 9:53 AM 

On ucxit tu matematika.
On ucxit tu student da matematika.

There is no ambiguity.

tu <person> da <subject> is to teach
tu <subject> is to learn


you don't even have to know that the noun is a student or a subject

if you see:

only one noun preceded by tu it's learn
if you see two nouns, one preceded by tu, one preceded by da, it's teach


where is the ambiguity?


You could even say:

On ucxit da matematika.

He teaches math.

But this isn't used in Slavic languages. The dative for the subject taught IS used in Russian.

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 27 2006, 10:26 AM 

Russian has the accusative/dative construct

for just the subject and ONLY for University there is a word:

prepodavat'

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 27 2006, 12:36 PM 

On ucxit tu student da matematika.

I had to read this five times to understand it because this contruction is quite archaic in Czech. We say (literally translated):

On ucxit tu student tu matematika. (teach)
On ucxit sa (reflexive pronoun) matematika. (learn)

Your system could certainly work, but I think that it would be too confusing to have two meanings for one verb ... Instead of the verb "to learn", we could use a synonym "to study" - studiovat'. I think that it would be understood by all Slavs.

On instruktirovat matematika k studiovatel'. = On instruktirovat studiovatel' ob matematika.
On studiovat matematika.

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 27 2006, 12:50 PM 

studio is where you record albums

just use prepodavat' for teach

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 27 2006, 12:51 PM 

aprender knowledge
prepodavat' knowledge

you get the idea

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 27 2006, 1:07 PM 

just use prepodavat' for teach

I think that most Slavs will understand instruktirovat' better than prepodavat' ... The latter isn't understandable to me at all.

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 27 2006, 1:26 PM 

you're probably right

 
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ucxit i ucxit se

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August 27 2006, 6:22 PM 

I do not see your problems, may you please explain to me?
For me to learn is: either naucxit se(ba) transitive verb or ucxit se(ba) intransitive verb
For me to teach is: ucxit
===
Sorry Igor, I am just trying to teach myself Russian (one of the reason I am working on MZxR, but is it not also in Russian that you say for to teach ucxit and for to learn ucxit-sja?

Eugeniusx

 
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Re: ucxit i ucxit se

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August 28 2006, 4:42 AM 

Ja ucxu matematiku = I'm learning mathematics - in Russian, it's not reflexive
Ja ucxusja = I study - that's where the reflexive is used

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 27 2006, 2:46 PM 

On http://www.langmaker.com/db/User:Gabriel_Svoboda/GS-Slovianski , I added a more detailed descripton of the conjunctions li, czo and abi.

On http://www.langmaker.com/db/User:Gabriel_Svoboda/GS-Slovianski/Word_formation , I changed the prefix opet- to pere- and I added the suffix -enik.

On http://www.langmaker.com/db/User:Gabriel_Svoboda/GS-Slovianski/Vocabulary , new words and geographical names are being continously added.

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 27 2006, 3:05 PM 


 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 29 2006, 9:28 AM 

On http://www.langmaker.com/db/User:Gabriel_Svoboda/GS-Slovianski/Vocabulary , the Basic vocabulary has been completed. Currently, GS-Slovianski has got 355 lexical units that should suffice for the most basic communication. So if you think that some of these 355 words could be solved in a better, more natural, more Slavic way, go ahead and propose a change!

Rivers in Geographical names have been finished.

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 29 2006, 12:47 PM 

as far as corka, we have dcerka, cerka, corka, don'ka, docxer', dasxter'a
don't you think it should begin with a d?
docerka should be understandable to a lot more than corka and it even sounds like daughter (docer) hooray

door should be vrota because south slavic doesn't have dveri
hvilina is cool and all, but Russian speakers not familiar with Ukrainian won't understand it, but minuta is more international

I'll use Russian/Ukrainian/Polish/Slovak/Serbian/Bulgarian right now because those are the dictionaries I have open (czech dictionary I use is down at the moment) so that's two from each branch

for name we have im'a, imja (no palatalized labials in Ukranian), im'e, meno, ime, ime
should be one of the three: ime, im'a, imeno

for idea we have ideja, ideja, idea, idea, ideja, ideja
but remember something that's written idea is pronounced more likely as ideja anyway

for year we have god (in some forms let), rik (closed o to i change), rok, rok, godina/leto
let's avoid confusion and call it rok we don't need leto getting confused with lete or whatever your form is

for ship we have korabl'/lodka (boat), korabel'/lodka, statek (?), korab/lodny, ladja, korab/lodka
I guess lodka should be used (not lod'a) for a boat... maybe lod'a for a big boat? or korab?

for night we have nocx, nicx, noc, noc, noc', nosxt
it should be nocx or noc

for picture we have WAY too many words
but obraz doesn't mean the same in all the languages
zobrazen'e should match izobrazxenie and zobrazxenn'a more closely while being close to obraz

pr'atel? EVERY language has prijatel but Czech, even Slovak

sedmica for week? kind of hard to understand for those languages who don't have that word
we got nedel'a, tizxden', tidzxen', tizxden', nedel'a/sedmica/t'edan, nedel'a/sedmica
it seems like a toss up between tizxden and nedel'a because the south slavic languages also have nedel'a

spec'alist? it's specijalist in every language on the list (probably not in Czech, but I can understand the bias)

vek for age.. making sure it's age as in "vek dinosaurovaj" instead of "ktori tvoj vek?" because I'd agree with the former, but disagree with the latter

beast is zver in most of the languages, not zvere

btw did you read my proposal on verbs? my verb list would be:


blistat - to shine
blogodarit - to thank
bojat-se - to fear
brat - to take
celit-se - to aim
čestvat - to feast
činit - to act
čitat - to read
čut - to feel, to perceive
delat - to do

deponirovat' - to lodge **WTF** this applies to money only not even fixing this one

derat - to hold, to grasp
dostavat - to obtain, to get, to receive
dvigat - to move
fotografirat - to photograph
funkcionirat - to function
gl'adat - to behold, to look at
govori' - to speak
hotet - to want

hvatat - to grab <- changed meaning

idit - to go
igrat - to play
imat - to have
informirat - to inform

inkontrat - to meet <- sorry that's too English for me

instruktirat - to teach
interesat - to interest
izmenit - to change
jes - to be (irregular)
jesnat - to exist
jedat - to eat
kalkulirat - to calculate
kazat se - to seem
kidat - to throw

klan'at - to salute, to greet <- huh


končit' - to end
kontaktovat - to contact
kupit - to buy
letet - to fly
leat - to lie (down)
lomat - to break
l'ubit - to love
mislit - to think
mogut - to can, to be able to
mret - to die
dolzxit - to ought, to must
načinat - to commence
nadejat - to hope
najdit - to find
nedostat - to be absent
nosi' - to carry
nravi' - to please
obiskat - to search
odevat - to clothe
organizovat - to organize
ostavit - to leave, to let alone
ostat - to remain
otkrit - to open
otnosit se - to be related to
otveti' - to reply
označat - to signify, to mean
padat - to fall
pam'at - to memory
pečat - to print
perevodit - to translate
pisxat - to write
pit - to drink
platit - to pay
pojavl'at - to appear
pokazat - to show
poloit - to put, to place
pomogat - to help
posetit - to visit
poslat - to send
poviat - to prefer
povtor'at - to repeat
pozvol'at - to allow, to permit
predsedat - to preside <- lol
predstavl'at - to present
pričin'at - to cause
priglaat - to invite
prigotovit - to prepare
prihodit - to come (on foot)
prijehat - to come (not on foot)
primat - to accept
probovat - to try
prodavat - to sell
proigrivat - to lose (game or competition)
proizvodit - to produce
projektovat - to design, to purpose

prosit - to request, to beg, to demand, to ask
prostit - to forgive
puteestvat - to voyage
putovat - to journey, to travel
raportovat - to report
raskazivat - to tell
rekomendovat - to recommend
redaktirovat - to redact
reat - to decide
rezat - to cut
rodit - to bear, to produce
sedet - to sit
skazat - to say
sledit - to follow
sluit - to serve
smejat se - to laugh
sobirat - to collect
sočin'at - to work (literary)
soglosit se - to consent
sovetovat - to advise, to counsel
spat - to sleep

stavat se - to happen

strojet - to construct, to build
stojat - to stand
stojit - to cost, to price

torgovat - to trade
trebovat - to need
trudit - to labor
udar'at - to hit
rozumet - to understand
učit - to learn
ucxit se - to study
udivl'at - to wonder

umivat - to wash
upotrebit - to use
upravl'at - to direct
uvaat - to esteem
varit - to cook
verit - to believe
vibrat - to choose
videt - to see
vinosit - to endure, to last
virastat - to grow, to increase
viset - to hang

vojevat - to fight
vospevat - to sing
vospitivat - to discipline
vozviat - to lift, to rise
zabit - to forget
zabotit se - to care, to anxiety
zadovolat - to satisfy
zamečat - to remark
zanimat - to occupy
zatvorit - to close
zav'azat - to bind, to tie
znat - to know, to recognise
zvučat - to sound
elat - to desire
it - to live


I used my rule and I changed some words

and why are your adjectives ending with -i?

You will have things like dobri devcxa? bogati zxenka?

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 29 2006, 9:24 PM 

Thank you very much for your construcitve reaction!


daughter:

RUS дочь
UKR донька

POL córka
CES dcera
Slk dcéra

SRP k'cerka
BUL дъщеря
Mkd ќерка

The most common is dcerka. But the cluster dc- would probably be pronounced [c] anyway, so I left the d- out. Inserting the -o- between d and c can also be a posibility. So I have no problem with docera.


name:

RUS имя
UKR iм'я

POL imię
CES jméno
Slk meno

SRP ime
BUL име
Mkd име

The result is ime.


idea:

Yes, ideja is clearly more common.


year:

RUS год
UKR рік

POL rok
CES rok
Slk rok

SRP godina
BUL година
Mkd година

So Slavic languages are very divided in terms of this. But you are probably right that rok is the most common.


ship, boat:

In Czech, we have loďka - (small) boat, loď - (big) ship, koráb - very big ship, a little bit archaic word. Dictionaries won't help us very much in terms of this because they try to give as many synonyms as possible. So lod'ka for boat and lod'a/korab for a bigger ship would be perfectly understandable to me. What do other Slavs think?


night:

RUS ночь
UKR ніч

POL noc
CES noc
Slk noc

SRP noc
BUL нощ
Mkd ноќ

So noc is a little bit more common.


picture:

Yes, there are really many words for it. In the heaps of synonyms, I could find that kartina is east Slavic + Bulgarian, obraz is west Slavic and slika is Serbian and Macedonian. So if we simply couted votes, kartina would be adopted. Would zobrazen'e be understandable to other Slavs than the west ones?


friend, specialist:

Yes. In fact, I just forgot to change it after we made the agreement about using i. So I adopt prijatel, specijalist.


week:

RUS неделя
UKR тиждень

POL tydzień
CES týden
Slk týždeň

SRP sedmica, tjedan
BUL седмица, неделя
Mkd седмица, недела

So tižden' is the most common. By the way nedel'a would be unacceptable because it means "Sunday" to some Slavs.


age:

For me, it sounds good in both meanings ... I don't know. Dictionaries won't help us very much here because the English word "age" has got both meanings, too.


beast:

RUS зверь
UKR звір

POL zwierz, zwierzę
CES zvíře
Slk zviera

SRP zv(ij)er
BUL звяр
Mkd ѕвер

You are right, zver is more common.

(I'll do verbs in another post.)

 
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iopq

Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 30 2006, 8:33 AM 

zobrazen'e is like izobrazxenije in Russian, zobrazxenn'a in Ukrainian, obraz in Polish, izobrazxenie in Bulgarian, etc. it's present in all Slavic languages

vek only means a hundred years or age as in a period of time in Russian

In Russian:

Skol'ko tebe let?
Mne dev'at let.

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 30 2006, 10:51 AM 

OK, so I adopt zobrazen'e.

In terms of "age", I looked at http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/age . This word is said to have 12 meanings here, but the basic ones we speak about are two:

1) The whole duration of a being, whether animal, vegetable, or other kind; lifetime.

vs.

7) A particular period of time in history, as distinguished from others, (the golden age, the age of Pericles).
8) A great period in the history of the Earth.

For the first meaning we have:

Russian: возраст
Polish: czas życia, długość życia

For the second meaning we have:

Russian: эпоха, эра, время, век
Polish: epoka, era
Slovak: vek (but words epocha and éra exist, too)


So based on this, I think that we can completely avoid the word "vek" and have vozrast for the first meaning and era (or epoha) for the second meaning.

 
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Eugeniusx

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August 30 2006, 11:57 AM 

Gabriel pisal:
friend, specialist:
Yes. In fact, I just forgot to change it after we made the agreement about using i. So I adopt prijatel, specijalist.
===
Specijalist. To stranju, velm (ocxin) stranju dla mne! Porovnij: --, --.

Eugeniusx

 
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iopq

Re:

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August 30 2006, 12:49 PM 

it's pri-ja-tel and spe-ci-ja-list (Ru. and Ukr. and Bulg. spe-ci-a-list)


 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 30 2006, 9:44 PM 

čestvovat > čestvat
dvignut > dvigat
fotografirovat > fotografirat
funkc'onirovat > funkcionirat
idet > idit
informirovat > informirat
instruktirovat > instruktirat
interesovat > interesat
kalkulirovat > kalkulirat
najit > najdit
nedostavat > nedostat
obiskivat > obiskat
pisat > pišat
putešestvovat > putešestvat
sm'at > smejat
stavit > strojet

suščestvovat > jesnat
muset > dolžit
udovletvor'at' > zadovolat

deponirovat' - to lodge **WTF** this applies to money only not even fixing this one
hvatat - to grab <- changed meaning
inkontrat - to meet <- sorry that's too English for me
klan'at - to salute, to greet <- huh
stavat se - to happen

Thank you for the third person forms. I adopt čestvat', dvigat', fotografirat', funkcionirat', idit', informirat', instruktirat', interesat', kalkulirat', najdit', nedostat', obiskat', pišat', putešestvat', smejat', strojet'.

In terms of "to exist", I can see almost no agreement in Slavic languages ... That's why I adopted Russian существовать without change. Have you got a better idea? What about international egzistet'?


to must:

West Slavic languages and Ukrainian have muset, South Slavic languages have morat/trebat, Russian has got dolžit ... So Slavic languages don't agree very much about this, but muset' is probably the most common in my opinion. We also adopted rok when only West Slavic langauages and Ukrainian agreed on it.


to satisfy:

You are right, zadovolat' is more common.


to lodge:

Yes, you are right, I meant "to reside". Polish and Ukrainian have meškat' ... Does anybody have a better idea?


hvatat':

You are right, "to grab" is more apposite.


to meet:

Yes, inkontrat' is completely un-Slavic. It is Romance because I could see absolutely no agreement on this verb in Slavic languages ... What do you propose?


to salute, to greet:

RUS приветствовать
UKR вітати

POL witać, pozdrowić
CES vítat, pozdravit
Slk pozdravit, vítať

SRP pozdraviti
BUL поздравявам
Mkd поздравува

So pozdrovit' would probably be the best. The verb klon'at' is probably a result of my wrong looking to the dictionary.


to happen:

The verb stavat (se) exists in Ukrainian, Czech, Slovak. The verb slučat (se) is in RUssian, Bulgarian, Macedonian ... So I would probably prefer the latter.


Reflexive verbs (se) shouldn't be kept, there is no reason for this ...

 
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iopq

Re: GS-Slovianski

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September 1 2006, 1:47 AM 

Why do we need reflexive verbs?

ucxit = learn
ucxit se = study

smejat = to make someone laugh
smejat se = (to make) yourself laugh

mit = wash
mit se = wash yourself

etc.


In English the word for reflexive concept is "-self"

So how do you translate the following two sentences:

He shaved him. He shaved himself.

In my version I get:

On brit jego. On brit se.

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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September 1 2006, 8:41 AM 

I meant that we don't need verbs that are inherently reflexive and their non-reflexive form either doesn't exist or has got a completely different meaning. For example in Czech, the verb smat se is inherently reflexive and smat on its own makes no sense. Does it really make sense in other Slavic languages?

Of course, the distinction between washing and washing oneself is needed:

On mit ego. He washes him.
On mit sebe. He washes himself.

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 30 2006, 10:17 PM 


 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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August 31 2006, 4:31 PM 

On http://www.langmaker.com/db/User:Gabriel_Svoboda/GS-Slovianski/Vocabulary , names of countries and their capitals have been completed. I did all the geographical names with maximum care, so you may be pretty sure that the GS-Slovianski form is really the most natural Slavic one. I did four exceptions only:

- Certain lands' most natural name ended in -landija. Using standard derivation methods, inhabitants of these countries would end in -land (if the country name ends in -ija, the inhabitant is formed by truncating this ending). It would be quite odd because the root "land" originally means "country". Therefore I changed -landija either to -land or to -ija, depending on what was more natural Slavic.
- The most natural Slavic name of France would be Francija. An inhabitant of this country would be franc. It is nothing bad, but still the most common name for "a French" is francuz. Therefore I changed also the name of the country to Francuzija. I think that nobody will be angry because of this.
- The most natural Slavic name of Germany would be Nemecina. Its inhabitant would be nemcinan (if the country name ends in -a, change it to -an to get the inhabitant). However, all Slavs call a German nemec. That's why I changed Nemecina to very similar Nemecija.
- The most natural Slavic name of Poland would be Polska, so the inhabitant would be called polskan in GS-Slovianski. However, all Slavs naturally call this person polak. That's why the country is finally named Polakija in GS-Slovianski.

 
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Polakia

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September 1 2006, 10:17 AM 

You should have asked Bartosx he invented it a year ago!

 
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iopq

Re: Polakia

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September 1 2006, 12:29 PM 

In Russian one could say "ta ne smesxi!" which means "don't make me laugh!" It's used when someone says something ridiculous.

On brit sebe = On brit se

I don't understand why you need two extra letters

Of course, you can't say "On se brit" because "se" is a clitic, not a subject

 
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Re: Polakia

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September 1 2006, 4:21 PM 

I don't understand why you need two extra letters

I feel that sebe is clearer because the form of the reflexive pronoun varies in Slavic languages (se, sa, si etc.). I also use pronouns sa, su, se for another meaning (see http://www.langmaker.com/db/User:Gabriel_Svoboda/GS-Slovianski#Personal_and_possessive_pronouns ). But I don't insist on this system, it could be changed.

 
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Re: GS-Slovianski

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September 4 2006, 9:16 PM 

Because of the Slavic name of inhabitant, I also changed "Grecija" and "Turecija" to Grekija and Turekija.

 
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