September 22 2006 at 5:43 PM No score for this post
Hi guys, here is my lame translation of poem The Rose from Kraledvorsky Rukopis. The language rules mostly follow IJzeren Jan's Slovianski-N. I cheated and omited some sounds, replacing them with "right apostrophe" character, e.g. "d’ni" instead "deni" (days) etc.
I don't think it's something great, but still, look at it:
Ah ti roza, krasna roza,
Po-čo ti rano rozkvet’la,
Rozkveta’čo zamerz’la,
Zamerza’čo uved’la,
Uveda’čo opad’la?
Večer sidela, dlogo sidela
Do kuropenia sidela,
Ničo dočekat' ne mog’la.
Vse listi, plat’ki sožeg’la.
Us’nula. Se s’nilo mne vo s’ne,
Kak by mne za neščastie
Na pravoj ruke so persta
Spadal zloti perstenek,
Slezgal drogi kamenek;
Kamenek ne naidala,
Milogo s’ ne doč’kala.
Personally I think that this "omiting" apostrophe is very useful thing, not only in poetry.
Stem son may be truncated to s’n: us’nula, se s’nilo, vo s’ne. The last example shows some euphony too.
Reflexive particle sometimes is spelled se, and sometimes s’.
Stem ček one time is written dočekat', and one time it's doč’kala.
Why I’ve done it? It’s obvious, the shortened forms look more natural, and I guess they are better for syllabication of poem.
"Drop" apostrophes are useful, because they allow us to have two forms of the same words: more natural one, and more correct one. This way of using of apostrophe is similar to using of it in English, French etc. That's one of the reason why I don't like the "softening" apostrophe. I think that if we don't have difference between “i” and “y”, we also shouldn't have difference between “t'” and “t”.
The original 9th line of the poem was “všě dřězhy, lúčky sežeh”, but to say the truth I didn’t get what it meant.
I recommend to everyone to look at Rukopis Královédvorský. It’s written in written in very interesting language. And personally I think it’s more understandable than Slovio
In Czech the main form is “dočkat se”. Though I guess you’re right, the shortened form is less understandable for all the rest Slavs.
Actually in the original there ware verbs “doždati” and “sě nedoždech”. But I’m not sure if it was good idea. Václav Hanka was a strange guy, he could use these forms just to please his Russian friends.
I don't see the need
instead of 8 syllabes per verse, it could be written with 9 syllables per verse strictly using IJzeren Jan's grammar
Ah ti roza, prekrasna roza,
Začo ti rano rozkvetila,
Rozkvetlajuči zamrozila,
Zamrozajuči uv'anula,
Uv'anujuči opadila?
Večer sedela, silno dlogo,
Do kuropenija sedela,
Ničo dočekat' ne možela.
Progor'ela vsego drevnogo
Zaspala, dremala v sone,
Kako bi mne, predpokladano,
Tak s persta jej pravoj ruke,
Spadal zloti naperstenek,
Sležal dobri drogi kamenek.
Kamenek ne natiknula se,
Milogo ne dočekala se.
To say the truth, I somewhat don't feel it to be a poem. Though my translation isn't the best in this aspect too. I didn't get some things:
Why adverbial participles have “-i” ending? It's your or IJzeren Jan's choose?
Why you used “l” in word “rozkvetlajuči”?
How you decide what vowel to use in verbal endings? (rozkvetila vs. rozkvetlajuči; zamrozila vs. zamrozajuči)
What's use of soft sign in word “progor'ela”?
Why you used pronoun “jej” in “Tak s persta jej pravoj ruke”? Just for syllabication's sake? Personally I thought there should be 1st person pronoun. And why “ruke”, not “ruki”?
Why you used form “-mroz-” (in “zamrozila”)? Personally I prefer to use “ol”, “el”, “or”, “er” where Czech and Serbian have vocalic “r” and “l”. Otherwise I would have “vlok”, though the major Slavic languages have “volk” (RU), “wilk” (PL), “vovk” (UK) etc. You shouldn't confuse it with short and full vocalization. “Vlok” should correspond to Russian “voločit'”, not to Russian “volk”.
What means word “drevnogo”?
I don't wanna sound to criticizing. I just have many things to ask.
Hellerick, looking at the Czechian version and your translation I have the following remarks:
1.Your "translation" is almost the same as the Czechian version, you only changed a few words and here and there a few letters.
2.Sorry but I like the Czechian version more than yours.
3.If I do not understand a word I can consult a Cz. dictionary, with your Sl-N I can not.
4.If that is all what Slovianski-N is, than I would rather prefer to learn Czechian.
5.Following yours and Igor´s logic you´ll soon have many Sl-N, like CZ-Sl-N, Polish one etc.
Hellerick:
...I recommend to everyone to look at Rukopis Královédvorský. It’s written in written in very interesting language. And personally I think it’s more understandable than Slovio
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Where can I find the Slovio version and those of the other languages?
I made some typos because I was looking at your text
Note that some of these words are my second choice, because they fit into the poem better
I COULD post a version that is more faithful, but that one won't rhyme
I fixed them:
Ah ti roza, prekrasna roza,
Začo ti rano rozkvetala,
Rozkvetajuči zamrozila,
Zamrozajuči uv'anula,
Uv'anujuči opadala?
Večer sedela, silno dlogo,
Do kuropenija sedela,
Ničo dočekat' ne možela.
Progor'ela vsego drevnogo
Zaspala, dremala v sone,
Kako bi mne, predpokladano,
Tak s persta jej pravoj ruke,
Spadal zloti naperstenek,
Sležal dobri drogi kamenek.
Kamenek ne natiknula se,
Milogo ne dočekala se.
To say the truth, I somewhat don't feel it to be a poem. Though my translation isn't the best in this aspect too. I didn't get some things:
Why adverbial participles have “-i” ending? It's your or IJzeren Jan's choose?
Why you used “l” in word “rozkvetlajuči”?
How you decide what vowel to use in verbal endings? (rozkvetila vs. rozkvetlajuči; zamrozila vs. zamrozajuči)
What's use of soft sign in word “progor'ela”?
Why you used pronoun “jej” in “Tak s persta jej pravoj ruke”? Just for syllabication's sake? Personally I thought there should be 1st person pronoun. And why “ruke”, not “ruki”?
Why you used form “-mroz-” (in “zamrozila”)? Personally I prefer to use “ol”, “el”, “or”, “er” where Czech and Serbian have vocalic “r” and “l”. Otherwise I would have “vlok”, though the major Slavic languages have “volk” (RU), “wilk” (PL), “vovk” (UK) etc. You shouldn't confuse it with short and full vocalization. “Vlok” should correspond to Russian “voločit'”, not to Russian “volk”.
What means word “drevnogo”?
I don't wanna sound to criticizing. I just have many things to ask.
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adverbial participles?
==
The present active participle has the ending -juč (-juči when used as an adjective) when the present-tense root ends in a vowel, -uč (-učí) when it ends in a consonant. In other words, you can build it by replacing the ending -t of the 3rd person plural by -č.
==
That's what I think I was using and it sounded right
The use of the soft sign in progor'ela is to show the Polish speaker that the word in question would have a rz in it rather than r and to show the Czech speaker the would would have in it a r with a hacek rather than one without it.
In general, I like to put a r' for a Polish rz/Czech r^ and r for Polish/Czech r. I should probably make a rule that before a yat' there should be a ' in the preceding consonant.
I should change jej because you're right about a first person pronoun being here... and yes it was for the sake of having 9 syllables
about ruke, I was writing a different sentence, then I edited it and I forgot to change the case back, it should be ruki
about vocalic r and l:
Common Slavic:
ъr, ъl > ro, lo
rъ, lъ > or, ol
so in Russian words that have ъr pattern they become oro as in boroda and vorota
I write them as broda, vrota
zloto in Sl-N is zoloto in Russian
brъzoj becomes borzoj in Sl-N and Russian
in Russian words that have lъ pattern they become ol as in volk and polk
I write them as volk and polk
don't get the impression I'm using Russian, either
brъk is brak in Russian but loaned through Bulgarian so we won't use the rule TOO strictly
in fact lots of words don't justify the same treatment, each word will mostly be on the basis of other Slavic languages, but when we see a class of words
in Common Slavic milk was "melko" so I will use mleko in Sl-N even though it got somehow messed up in Russian
of course I don't guarantee we will even use borzoj, but it still stands that this is the pattern we use
here is the new updated version
Ah ti roza, prekrasna roza,
Začo ti rano rozkvetala,
Rozkvetajuči zamrozila,
Zamrozajuči uv'anula,
Uv'anujuči opadala?
Večer sedela, silno dlogo,
Do kuropenija sedela,
Ničo dočekat' ne možela.
Progor'ela vsego drevnogo
Zaspala, dremala v sone,
Kako bi mne, predpokladano,
Tak s persta ot pravoj ruki,
Spadal zloti naperstenek,
Slazil dobri drogi kamenek.
Kamenek ne natiknula se,
Milogo ne dočekala se.
