According with princip of majority representation in every slavic country (Sloviansi princip) I would suggest to accept the pan-slavic flag as :
WHITE
BLUE
RED
stripes as it is on Slovenian, Slovakian and Russian flags with a symbol of something that put together all Slavs.
Before I was thinking about the former Serbian flag that was accepted at the Prague's All- Slavic Congress in 1848 but this flag gelonged just to one Slavic country that wouldn' correspond with the rule of majority.
Then do it. Show us how. I, personally think that one of these simple flags is ok. Problem is if you make the pan-slavic flag too much look like Russian flag, the Poles will never accept it.
WHITE - BLUE - RED striped flag is not just a russian one. These colours have also Slovenians and Slovaks that is a majority when we should keep a kind of
"majority rules" that were stated by Slovianskis.
And that lime leaf doesn't have to be so big. Just about 1/3 of the width of the flag.
It is a combination of flags of all Slavic countries + three non-Slavic countries (USA, Brazil, Kazakhstan) with the highest number of diaspornikis. It wouldn't be convenient to make a flag out of 13 flags, but 16 is quite a good number to do this (4Γ4).
The flags are ordered in this way:
Czechia
Poland
Belarus
Russia
Slovenia
Serbia
Slovakia
Kazakhstan
USA
Croatia
Montenegro
Ukraine
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Brazil
Bulgaria
Macedonia
The order isn't random at all, I tried to respect the map as much as possible.
And the most important information: this flag isn't meant seriously, of course. Just the Eulenspiegel in my mind wanted to know what it would look like.
It's interesting to note that of all the 'Slavic flags' only Russian and Polish seems to be 'original' ones.
- Slovak, Slovenian, Bulgarian, and Serbian are based on Russian.
- Croatian and former Yugoslavian are random combinations of Slavic colors.
- Ukrainian is based on Swedish.
- Czech is based on Austrian.
- Belarusian is based on the common Soviet pattern of flags.
- Bosnian is based on the flag of EU.
- Montengran isn't flag at all: it's a coat of arms used instead flag.
- Macedonian seems to be a random symbol ('Vertigo', Sun) used instead flag.
It sounds reasonable that the Pan-Slavic flag should be based on Polish and Russian ones. Otherwise we will repeat the same several times, or will use non-Slavic elements.
Czech flag is based on the Polish flag, or better said, on the original flag of Bohemia (although these two look the same). The blue triangle was added to represent Slovakia in 1918, and redefined to represent Moravia in 1993.
Yes, Gabriel is right and moreover the slovakian double-cross is almost 1 200 year old (since the time St. Cyril and Metod brought it to Great Morava).
As far as what I remember from the old discussions on the former Slovianski forum, the leafs of birch (breza), lime (lipa) and oak (dub) are the symbols of east, west and south Slavs, respectively. (This is to be taken as a very rough information; the national tree of Slovenia, for example, is a lime, not an oak.)
That's why I think it wouldn't be good to elect just one of these trees and ignore the other two.
Zdrav Igor!
I love the flag: blue, white and red,too. But I would like to add the colours yellow and green too. The colours of my Slavic nationality is yellow and blue.
So let΄s have a flag of blue, white and red horizontal strips and in the middle a yellow circle with a green lime leaf inside of the circle.
Anyone one who can draw that suggestion? Would be nice.
Ay Gabriel!
Hellericks flag has two disadvantages:
1. it is not original but a vicariousness of flags of African countries. Well: Salam Pushkin!
2. His flag does not represent all Slavic countries like Bulgaria (green) and Ukraina (yellow) and others.
Ay Gabriel!
The main "colour" of the Slavs is missing in your rainbow flag: WHITE!
Please, would-be Eulenspiegel! Keep your mouth shut, if you do have nothing to say!
Anonimnik pisal:
Of course, because our ancestors accepted Christianity and first Slavic book was The Bible translated into Cyrilic writing.
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Our ancestors did not at all accept christianism! They were forced by the "Slavic" Krol(iki) with the help of the German crusaders to "accept" so called "christianity"!
Oh! Imame tut vel-velju intelgentju Anonimnik: Ten kto edat listi es vegetarian!
To znacxit zxe vse zveri es vegetarian, no ale krova ne es vegetarian.
Does anybody know if it is true that the original Slavic cross was a horizontal double cross, used even before christianity, and then the christians turned it around?
Cyril and Methodius were two Greek (Byzantine) brothers born in Thessaloniki in the 9th century, who became missionaries of Christianity in Khazaria and Great Moravia. They are credited with devising and spreading the Glagolitic alphabet, which was used for Slavonic manuscripts before the development of the Cyrillic, the alphabet derived from Glagolitic, that, with small modifications, is still used in a number of Slavic languages. After their death their pupils became missionaries among other Slavic peoples. Both brothers were canonized in Eastern Orthodoxy as "equal-to-apostles" and were glorified by the Roman Catholic Church in 1880.
Moravian mission.
In 862 they were invited by prince Rastislav to propagate Christianity in the Slavic language in Great Moravia, which they did until their deaths, Cyril's in 869 (in Rome) and Methodius' in 885 (in Great Moravia).
For the purpose of this mission, they devised the Glagolitic alphabet, an alphabet supposedly derived from the Greek alphabet and used for Slavonic manuscripts before the development of the Cyrillic, an alphabet derived from Glagolitic and the Greek alphabet, that with small modifications is still used in a number of Slavic languages.[1]
Monument to Cyril and Methodius in front of the SS. Cyril and Methodius National Library in Sofia, BulgariaThey also translated Christian texts for Slavs into the language that is now called Old Church Slavonic and wrote the first Slavic Civil Code, which was used in Great Moravia. The language derived from Old Church Slavonic, known as Church Slavonic, is still used in liturgy by several Eastern Orthodox churches.
The Crusades were a series of military conflicts of a religious character waged by Christians from 1095-1291, usually sanctioned by the Pope in the name of Christendom,[1] with the goal of recapturing Jerusalem and the sacred "Holy Land" from Muslim rule and originally launched in response to a call from the Eastern Orthodox Byzantine Empire for help against the expansion of the Muslim Seljuq dynasty into Anatolia.
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So, Eugeniusz, there is 233 years between the year 862 (Cyril and Methodius came to Great Moravia and the year 1095 when the first Crusade started.
Well, and I ask you : " Who brought Christianity to the Slavs ? "
Were that "German Crusaders" or 233 year before these two brothers from Thessaloniki ?
That's just a bloody speculation that the SLOVO sign was "Inspired" by christian symbols of triangle and circle. That's nonsense, that's christian speculation. They want to attribute everything to christianity, even such basic symbols, basic to all mankind, as circle and triangle. Maybe they should also say that the Jewish star of david was inspired by the christian symbol of trianble and the star of bethlehem. That's equal nonsense. Which idiotic christian wrote that into Wikipedia I don't know but triangle and circle belongs to the slavs as much as to anybody else. Christians, Chinese, Jews moslems. The thing that is very SLAVIC is the circle on top of a triangle. That unique combination is purely and only SLAVIC. Every other speculation is nonsense. Why they think that we are bloody idiots that we cannot invent our own symbols, that we have to copy them somewhere else?
Why nobody likes my Globe of Pan-Slavonia? I'm enraged!
Okay, let's re-arrange it a little: I'll add these lipa-list and double cross if you like, make a lemniscus of Slavic colors with 13 bands to represent the number of Slavic states, and bring in some nostalgic motives:
Huh, isn't it pretty? But it's a coat of arms, and we need a flag. Let's use the traditional Slavic colors and arrange them this way:
Lovely... The number of stars and stripes represents the number of Slavic states of course.
Zdrav Igor!
The flag is not so much a provocation, but Hellerick himself is a provocation.
I would like to send him to Siberia. But the problem is: He is already living there, this smarkacx!
This does not make any sense! It shouldn't have been called nostalgy (nostalgia) but instead Absurdity! But I guess this is yet another provocation
For example why would Croatians accept Serbian tricolor (RBW)??? In fact why would all the South Slavs accept Serbian tricolor??? South Slavs used Pan-Slavic tricolor - BWR, which I think is good for all the Slavs since it has been approved at the Pan-Slav convention in Prague in 1848.
And why would Bulgarians get Croatian tricolor!?!
In the same way why would Russians use Pan-Slavic tricolor (!?!) and the overall Slavic state "Soyuz of Slavic Republics" (Lusatian) Sorbian national flag???
As a Croat I cannot accept Serbian tricolor for any Croatian Republic within a hypothetical Slavic Union! I certainly do not hate Serbs but this is a matter of principles!
Yes, it is an absurdity and a provocation. I just speculated about the Slavic Soyuz, being governed from one centre that prescribes everything, even flags for the member republics, and doesn't care about local and national preferences.
I was also inspired by the flags that follow a common pattern, such as flags of Soviet republics (with hammer and sickle on top left), flags of some Commonwealth members states (with the UK flag on top left), or Nordic flags (with the Scandinavian cross). So I stated a similar common pattern for Slavic flags: a yellow lime leaf on top left, a Slavic tricolour. Each republic has to have a different tricolour; in terms of an autonomous republic, its coat of arms is added to the flag of the superior republic.
So far out of all the proposal, the best seems the Igor's one from 18/04
(blue - white - red, with a yellow circle in the middle and green lime leaf in it).
OK, but we have to decide for one of them and the lime seems to be a good idea.
If you controvert every time with everything so long time we probably have to wait several years to come up to some aim. It is with everything. There is still someone that doesn't agree with something.
OK, but we have to decide for one of them and the lime seems to be a good idea.
OK, there are several Slavic langauges, but we have to decide for one of them and for example Russian seems to be a good idea. That is your logic.
An ideal flag should be easy to recognise, difficult/impossible to confuse, and one should be able to draw it with a few colours, a set-square and basic mathematical abilities. Ergo it should contain no complicated shapes (no coats of arms, no lime trees etc.), just the basic geometrical ones. I like the Hellerick's 17/04 proposal from this point of view.
But it seems to me as some ship flags for signaling distant mutual communication at sea. Have a look at naval signaling flags - the Hellerick's proposal is the same.
Not considering the eulenspielgei of the G-I-H Troika, we have some common ideas as I can see:
1. The colours blue, white, red, yellow and green, representing all existing Slavic countries and further more many Asian countries with a high amount of Slavic speakers.
2. A common sign:
a) a lime leaf
b) a lime leaf and the letter S (slovo) of the Glagolitic alphabet
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So I suggest to have following flag:
blue (light blue), white and red strips and in the middle a yellow circle with a light green lime leaf and inside the lime leaf a black Glagolitic S (Sovo).
Yeah, I also thought about something like that. The fact that the flag should have five colours doesn't imply that these colours can't be ordered in a simple, clear way.
Or what about:
the sun and its shine
the sky
ice and snow in the mountains
woods, meadows etc.
ehm ... well ... the blood of Slavs who died for their homeland?
This is the first draft of the "Slavic Wedges" flag I posed on 4/17:
The blue and yellow stripes in the top right corner represent Ukraine and Bosnia, the white, green, and red stripes in the bottom right corner represent Belarus and Bulgaria. But then I guessed that these stripes "overweigh" the flag and make it to difficult -- that's why I decided to keep the part with the "Slavic colors" only.
I'm not sure if I like it... but I really think I found an ideal Pan-Slavic flag. Seriously. I kick myself for not thinking about it sooner.
Here it is:
The Circle is a symbol of equal union. The main field is red, because it's the most common color of the Slavic flags (only two don't have it -- the Ukrainian and Bosnian ones, whereas four flags don't have white, and five don't have blue).
The field and the "main rings" are the traditional "Slavic colors". When we cross the flag by a vertical line through its center from top to bottom, we get the flags of Serbia, former Yugoslavia, Poland, Croatia, and Russia (+ Slovakia and Slovenia) (in this order). The Czech flag isn't very well represented -- "something (here: a circle) blue gripped between red and white".
There are two "edgings" -- the yellow and green ones. The red field with yellow edging represent Montenegro and FYRO Macedonia. The blue ring with yellow edging represent Ukraine and Bosnia. The green eging between the white ring and the red circle represent Bulgaria and Belarus.
The pattern still seems geometrically simple, the historical "Slavic colors" are respected, nobody seems to be offended.
Well ... the circle as the symbol of an equal union might be theoretically good, but I think it is a bit unusual for a Slavic flag. My first association after seeing this proposal was: the Japanese flag. What about keeping the great advantage of all Slavic flags being represented, but reshaping it into "normal" stripes?
How about to keep the "classic" colours as they were proposed at the Prague's
Slavic Congress in 1848 and on white stripe have 3 leaves - lime, oak, birch
tied together, symbolizing 3 slavic groups : east, west, south.
I made a new draft. I understand very well that it hardly can be used as a national flag, but we don't need one.
The shape of the "tape" represents something in between of the Cyrillic "C" and Latin "S" -- the first letter of the word "Slavs". I think it's pretty suitable for some internation organization of NATO, EU, NAFTA etc. kind.
Don't overdue that with any untraditional shapes and lines, circles and triangles. It's enought that some of your langs are difficult now you want to meke the flag more complicated as well.
I like this one the best. It is simple, it combines the Slavic tri-color, and combines the Polish-Russian-Ukrainian flag, as well as the additional colors of yellow and green and the leaf.
There is no such thing like unused Slavic tricolour, all six possibilites are or were used. The white-red-blue combination was used on one of the flags of Polish January Uprising and on the flag of Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia.
The emblem / coat of arms is OK but the setting of the "tricolora" is not the best. How about to keep the stripes as they are on the flag of Slavic Congress in Prague in 1848.
You said yourself this tricolour is associated with Yugoslavia only. That's why I like the Hellerick's proposal April 22 2007, 6:25 PM and those based on it - they explicitly prefer no tricolour, they contain all of them.
I personally like the white-red-blue because it is closer to the Polish flag than the other combinations, and traditionally the Poles were the most problematic about pan-slavism. They want to be very very important, they want to feel they are the boss (or as close to it as possible) and this color combination could give them that feeling. Also: white-red-blue is very close to the russian flag, just two colors are exchanged. And the Poles and Russians are the ones that have to agree...
No, I do not think it is like you are saying. Imagine, just 2 or 3 slavic countries would accept some easy common language and the flag. Then it would go as an "avalanche" with the rest of them. Because the rest would be in disadvantage. What lang, do you think, would be atractive for the rest of the world - that one and common and easy than the other natural ones or so many natural and difficult slavic languages ? And I think if there was some problem with mutual understanding of the people from different slavic countries
they would start speaking in this one and common all slavic one. The same it is with Germans ( as far as I heard they come over from various germanic dialects into Hoch Deutsch providing they cannot somehow understand each other)
Once, I was asked by some foreigner what Slavic lang I would recomment to him.
Of course, it was long ago before any proposal of some one and common was created. I didn't know what to answer to him. And after all I said to him :
"Either none of them or all of them". You simply cannot separate these natural languages by saying : that is better and that is worse. It doesn't go this way.
I think that would do if just some of them were willing to accept some common and easy lang and the rest of them (sooner or later) would accept it as well.
I know that it is for now. But when these people will be wiser or will need of such thing I am convinced that such language will be accepted.
I see just one problem. It's not the languages itself or common people themselves but those who rule the society.
Do you think that the people would learn e.g. English or German or Spanish when there is no need of using them. The problem is somewhere else - not in these languages or common people. But in those who set the law, regulations, restrictions, in those who are on the "top" of the societies, organizations, etc, etc, etc. In those who manipulate with others the way they want to.
If there is some will from "our rulers" for accepting something as "international language" then tell me who would learn English, German, French, Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese and other langs. Nobody except those whose those langs are their hobbies or linguists.
Even though this flag is not the best, because it is so simple it may be (for now) the best pan-slavic flag. No it is not ideal, but for now it might be the best, the most acceptable and the most logical.
The same way about Slovio. Perhaps it is not the best (yet) but for now it might be the best to accept Slovio and help to improve it with time. It is evolved, it is ready to use and it is simple. With time it will improve and be better.
So even though we may not like it, we must be practical people. This flag and Slovio. And let the rest happen later.
Ukrainian and Russian use lighter blue than other Slavs. Perhaps the lighter blue is a good compromise to accommodate also Ukrainians, the third largest Slavic nation.
Polish language - over 50 million speakers
Poles - 50 million members
Ukraine - 46 million inhabitants
Ukrainians - 44-45 million members
Ukrainian language - 39 million speakers
Poland - 38 million inhabitants
Yes, but the proposed blue is even lighter than the Ukrainian one. The Russian blue would be OK ... Ukraine is not represented anyway untill you add a yellow stripe.
This flag is just as overcomplicated and nonsensical as your pseudo-language. It does not mean anything. Just colors. Just too many colors and stripes. Any one of these is better:
The question isn't about what's easier to draw. The question is what's easier to perceive. The British Union Jack is one of the most difficult flags, but it's one of the most recognizable in the same time. (I know only three national flags which are used for esthetical design (i.e. not related to a nation itself): The ones of US, UK, and Panama. They are used for color design of clothes etc.)
The Circle flag I posted on 4/22 or the "S" flag I posted on 4/23 are easy to perceive. The eye easily catches main elements: the background (red) -- then the 'shapy' thing (a circle or S-like thing of blue and white colors) -- then the edgings (yellow and green).
Your (Gabriel's) flag posted on 4/22 is twice more difficult, because you doubled the number of elements. But it's still seems easy because it's still divided into "unequal" elements (background > stripes > edgings).
The version you posted on 4/23 is worse. After you reduced the area of red, the flag became just a number of (seemingly) random stripes of five differnt colors and three different widths. A human's eye just won't be able to interpret this thing. A version of 4/26 is a bit better.
Of the three flags a mysterious "P." posted on 4/26 the one with white linden leaf seems to be the most recongizable, but it hardly has anything to do with Slavs (with Slovio maybe, but not with Slavs). The choice of using of colors isn't the best one too (when white is used to separate the "psychologically antipodal" colors of blue and red, it can't take any meaningful shapes. The flag of France is great, but this case is wrong).
- The "Poloruski" flag is unbalanced (a unique element of flag can exist at the hoist side of the flag (e.g. flags of US, Czechia, Cuba, Belarus etc.), but not at the fly side), ergo it should rather be "Rusopolski" flag; though it seems non-politically correct of course, and hardly could be considered a nice-looking.
- The third flag is the worst: a number of random rectangles of different and suddenly a "natural" leaf. An eye has nothing to grasp in this pandemonium. Pablo Picasso would like it, Salvador Dali would spit on it.
OK ... I didn't like your circle flag because it looked unusual, but now I understand that a hint of unusuality should also be included in an ideal flag.
Hey guys, how about to keep the simple and "classical" flag that was proposed at the Prague All-Slavic Congress in 1848 ?
I guess there are many people who'd raise an objection against using of the flag of Yugoslavia. Though personally I dislike the flag because it looks like the Dutch one to me.
Nice flags you made, Gabriel. And what about this one?:
The four religions traditionally practiced by Slavs are represented.
I designed this flag to have a vertical "placeholder" for "Svatopluk's fasces". It hardly suits to contain a "square" (neither vertical nor horizontal) object.
What I really like about this flag is the fact that on first sight it is obvious that it is a Slavic flag, with strong Polish motiv. On the right side the three colors are identical to Russian, Slovak, Slovene flags. The three twigs on the left side complement the 5 colors which exist on Slavic flags and at the same time revive the story of Svatopluk and of Slavic unity. The flag is very simple to draw yet very, very expressive and very slavic.
Of you reverse yellow-green then the yellow touches upon white which also makes a bad contrast. See Gabriel, you will try and try and try and try but will never ever accept any other idea than your own.
Why do you have to hurry with everything? Both an unique element on the fly side and a bad contrast are flaws, so we should make up something better instead of staying in the stone age.
The unique element on the hoist-side are the three twigs of Sviatopluk. The blue on the right side allows clearer graphics, better constrasts and a better color-harmony. But as we know Gabriel will never, never, never, never accept anything only his own "SUPERIDEAS".
Just the Eulenspiegel in my mind wanted to know what it would look like.
Soyuz of Slavic Republics
Soviet Slavic Federative Republic
Russian Autonomous Republic
Ukrainian Autonomous Republic
Belarusian Autonomous Republic
Polish Slavic Republic
Czechoslovak Slavic Federative Republic
Czech Autonomous Republic
Slovak Autonomous Republic
Yugoslavian Slavic Federative Republic
Serbian Autonomous Republic
Croatian Autonomous Republic
Autonomous Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina
Montenegrin Autonomous Republic
Slovenian Autonomous Republic
Macedonian Autonomous Republic
Bulgarian Slavic Republic
