2007-06-24, posubotak.
Rosju prezident Vladimir Putin nacxil dva-denju ofisju navestenie Horvatiaf i Turciaf. Tut utro jegoi krilolet pristanil v Horvatju glavn-grod Zagreb gde bu slucxit Balkanju verh-vstretie energju sotrudief.
Rusie prezident Vladimir Putin startil dve-dene oficiale vizita ov H'rvatia
a Turcia. To jutro tenoi aeroplan nazemil vo H'rvatie glavne grod Zagreb ke em
aktit Balkane verh'e stretenie vo energie kooperacia.
2007-06-24, nedelak.
Rosju prezident Vladimir Putin priletil tut utro vo Hirvatju glavn-grod Zagreb dla dva-denju ofisju navestenie Horvatiam i Turciam. Vo Zagreb on bu ucxastit Balkanju energju kooperacia verh-vstretie. Tut forum bu vstretivat vediteli ot Albania, Bulgaria, Bosnia i Herzegovina, Makedonia, Romania, Serbia, Slovenia i Montenegro, takzxe cxinovniki ot Europju Sojuz i ONES.
Slovar:
Nedelak = Sunday (if we have Ponedelak for Monday then we have to use logically Nedelak for Sunday, and not Posubotak).
Yeah, I know, there is not a single Slav who will understand the purely Romance (Spanish-Portuguese-Italian) word dominika as Sunday, but what other possibility do we have? "Nedel'a" means "week" in Russian. So what about the Russian word for Sunday "voskresen'e"? Wait, it already means "resurrection".
As it is better for a word not to be understood at all than to be understood wrongly, I see no other possible solution than dominika.
The "nedelia" means "not working" - "ne delat" whereby most of people literally do not work on this day and if only the russians have "week" for this name it doesn't mean that all the rest of Slavs (or majority of them)should accept this fact.
I am not a russophobe (even some russian words are better to accept that the rest of the other slav ones) but it doesn't mean that we should accept word "dominika" for nedelia / nedelak or so. The word "voskresenie" is too long to manipulate with in sentences but I do not allege that I do not like this word.
Word "dominika" is not understandable for any Slavs (even not for the Russians)
and I do not accept principle of majority for acceptance of a certain word into all slavic language. It shouldn't work this way.
S-lingva accepts just those words from west or south European countries that are widely understandable even among the Slavic nations, e.g. Globa, Luna, komputer, internet, meteorologia, industria, unia, kompatibilita, konzilium, edukacia, aerodrom, aviatik, helikoptera, atom, kozmos, etc.
The word "dominica" is just understandable within the Romance languages.
The word nedela / nedelia / nedelak or similar is therefore far more better understandable among the Slavs than that "dominika".
dominika, 24i juni 2007 - Rosijski prezident Vladimir Putin poczal dva-denno oficial'no posetenije v Horvatija i Turcija. V tutto jutro jego samolet prizemil v horvatski glovni grod Zagreb, gde balkanski samit od energeticzna kooperacija stane sja.
"samit", "kooperacia" are the west european words and I ask the Slovianskists :
"Why do you use such foreign word that you are against when the slavic langs have adequate equivalents for them ?"
The word "prizemil" is not the right word for "landing" cause something to do "pri-" means "get closer" to something and not to "touch it".
Better is the prefix "na-" e.g. "nazemil" that means "to get landed" or so.
Slovianskists are too inaccurate in their prefixes.
Of course, you can say stretenije instead of samit and find dozens of equivalents for kooperacija (I don't know the official name of the organisation that met in Zagreb, that's why I just took this word from your and Slovio translation). Words of both origins will be understood by Slavs quite well in this case. But it isn't always the case: if a western European word is understandable to a Slovak, it isn't necessarily understood also by (a majority of) other Slavs.
This is an eternal problem and conflict of slavic languages. Of course "Nedelak" would seem logical but is not logical for Russians. Subotak is understood in all Slavic languages as is Ponedelak. Thus, despite the apparent lack of logic "POSUBOTAK" (sunday) is the best compromise solution, understood by all.
This is an eternal problem and conflict of slavic languages. Of course "Nedelak" would seem logical but is not logical for Russians. Subotak is understood in all Slavic languages as is Ponedelak. Thus, despite the apparent lack of logic "POSUBOTAK" (sunday) is the best compromise solution, understood by all.
Are you sure that just posubotak is the best solution? Not poslesubotak? Not predponedelak?
And where the hell did you take subotak from? Does it have something to do with the German word Samstag?
Yes, I agree, not every word even from national slavic languages suits well to the prefix "pre-".
I found the same problem with other prefixes in common slavic langs such as :
vy-, roz-, od-, na-, za-, pri-, etc.
You cannot use these prefixes just freely as they are in natural langs because then you cannot have some basic principles and grammatical rules for applying these prefixes for formating the words or their words morfology.
We should very carefully pick up the words and choosing them not just in accordance to the majority principle but if such word is suitable in all aspects for to be a part of vocabulary.
Ioannes pisal:
...We should very carefully pick up the words and choosing them not just in accordance to the majority principle but if such word is suitable in all aspects for to be a part of vocabulary.
---
Igor otvetil.
Stop trying to be better than Slavic languages.
===
I agree with Ioannes. The Slovianskists are trying to copy natural Slavic languages and produce a misxmasx language nobody needs.
They are not able to understand the natural language building. If two or more languages merge into one, the new developing tongue gets rid of grammatical feature which are not identical with the old ones.
Thatīs why Bulgarian lost almost all its cases.
Thatīs why the two modern Germanic languages lost its cases and its gender!
And thatīs why Slovio is more natural than the Slovianski patchwork.
I am not trying to be better than slavic languages. It's you all Slovianskists that are trying to be better in your grammars and words than other natural slavic languages because you are crating something that has been created several hundred years ago - some kind of naturally-artificial language that we have already now (our national slavic languages). You just picked up some common words but grammar is the same as any natural slavic language (with its difficulty and irregularity).
So, basically, what have you created after all ? Nothing, just gathered some common words that are in "normal" natural slavic languages. Nothing else.
Re: Nothing new with Slovianski \"under the sun\".
No score for this post
June 26 2007, 10:35 PM
you are crating something that has been created several hundred years ago - some kind of naturally-artificial language that we have already now (our national slavic languages)
Natural Slavic languages have no endemic features that would hinder understandability to other Slavs?
You cannot use these prefixes just freely as they are in natural langs because then you cannot have some basic principles and grammatical rules for applying these prefixes for formating the words or their words morfology.
Why can't I? I don't consider these prefixes to be prefixes, they are just a part of the root.
Gabriel, you probably do not understand the basic principles of grammar.
Prefix cannot be "a part of a root" - it's nonsense.
e.g. let's take the word "pracovat". If you add some prefixes you get other words but with the same root (vypracovat, odpracovat, zapracovat, spracovat,
prepracovat, etc.)
You can "work with a word" only if it is in its neuter and even better with its root.
If you use the words as they are you'll get just the same as it is in all natural slavic languages and that means you haven't crated anything positive with these words (you just copied them into Slovianski in the same forms they have in natural languages.)
That's the big difference between Slovianski and S-lingva that creates e.g. perfect tense by adding prefix na- to the root of the word (or its infinitive)
You cannot simply use these prefixes anywhere you like because then you can get some words that are the same in e.g. 2-3 slavic languages but these prefixes change the meaning of them (compare russian, czech, polish, croatian / serbian and bulgarian languages with their prefixen added to certain words).
As far as I know, in slovak and czech languages, we know what is and what is not a prefix in a word(Slovenska gramatika, Gramatika ceskeho jazyka).
Probably, it is more complicated in russian or ukrainian languages, I don't know.
but totally irregular are its past tense, imperative and noun :
-----------------------------------------------
odchod, prichod, nadchod, podchod, zaobchadzanie
chod', prid'te, nadid', podid', zaobchadzaj, chodenie, predchadzanie
---------------------------------------------------------------------
As you can see this is very difficult many times even for the slavs themselves to find the right deducted word from the root.
And that's why I do not keep strictly the all forms of single words in S-lingva that are created irregulary and by prefixes that change the roots of the words many times.
If your Slovianski will keep these irregularities that are in natural slavic languages then your language will not be popular and the young Slavs will not learn it.
I don't care if the language is popular, as long as it is useful to the speakers
if a person needs only to speak in Slovianski on a Russian, Serbian or Macedonian message board and be understood, isn't it enough? Why would I want people to learn a language that mostly benefits the speaker
I've already spoken Slovianski to a Czech/Slovak friend of mine and Gabriel spoke Slovianski on a linguistic Russian forum
Of course, the words have prefixes in natural Slavic languages, but after these prefixed words are adopted into Slovianski, you don't need to know that they were prefixed in order to work with them correctly according to the rules of Slovianski grammar.
If you use the words as they are you'll get just the same as it is in all natural slavic languages and that means you haven't crated anything positive with these words (you just copied them into Slovianski in the same forms they have in natural languages.)
You think that S-lingva does something positive with the words when it makes them theoretically good, but incomprehensible?
I cannot judge generally if something is good or bad. I just express my own opinion and it is that S-lingva tries to manipulate first with the word roots and then add some prefixes and suffixes that are stable in every word that is used.
e.g. for pasive voice it is used ONLY ending -te (not any other)
for perfect voice is used ONLY prefix - na (not any other)
negation is done just by " ne " + verb in its form
imperative is done just by ending -j
plural has just ending - i (not any other)
etc....
These fixed grammar principles makes this grammar transparent, easy for everyone (not just linguistically talented individuals) - the Slavs and non Slavs.
You can learn the grammar of S-lingva within one hour and use it without any problems. How many hours (days, weeks, months) does the grammar of Slovianski
take to learn and use it fluently for both the Slavs and foreigners and for the common man, not linguistically talented ?
How many grammatical mistakes would people do providing that they would use Slovianski and S-lingva ?
There is no use in a "simplified" language. A not so well learnt natural language will always be better and more useful than a perfect Lingua Crippla. Not to mention that skills in a natural language will imrove with practicing, while a simplified language will remain terrible forever.
What is terrible and what is not terrible ?
Then Esperanto, English, Spanish are also terrible as well.
Because their grammars are more simpler than any natural slavic language.
