Ioannes pisal:
Every language has to express somehow cases. It doesn' matter if you use suffixes or prepositions. Something must be used.
So, you are not right saying that English doesn't use cases. It does.
But other way than we use.
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This is nonsense!
It will be the same if you would say that the English articles have gender: namely female: THE woman, male THE man and neuter THE child.
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since your so called nominative and your accusative(use it by its Latin meaning!) nouns have the same form you do not have a Accusative!!!
...and you can not form the following Slovio sentence:
OK. Translate this without using any prepositions suffixes or prefixes that could express any case :
Father's son gave the newspaper to his friend who started reading it immediately after comming home.
I wounder if you happen to do that.
P.S. I just want to remind you that you mustn't use any auxilliary words for expressing any kind of case. Otherwise it could be considered it as some kind of case expressing.
Zdrav Ioannes!
you did also not get the point!
ti pisal:
Father's son gave the newspaper to his friend who started reading it immediately after comming home.
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Father´s son? crooked! if you say, Son of the Father than there is no need of any fucking case. To talk about cases makes only sense if the noun ( or even other parts of the sentences) are changed!
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You are not right because I didn't mind "The father who had the son...."
Why you wrote "had" ?
Why you didn't write "has" ?
I mean "a son who still has his father" NOT "that he had his father".
I didn't write the sentence like this.
Of course, English doesn't know something like starting with a noun in accusative. It can exist but very rarely. And without the comma there would be mess in the meaning.
As far as S - lingva doesn't have any preposition or suffix connected with a noun in accusative it is solved out by doing it in passive voice. The meaning remains the same.
The grammar of English is one thing and the spoken English (and English poems) another thing!
Girls, he loves is real spoken English! And grammar is a try to describe a spoken language using Latin terminology. I.e.: grammar used not for non-Latin tongues is a rape of those languages
Igor pisal:
You can't change the order without changing the meaning.
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this statement can only come from a person who learned a Germanic language from books. Of course you can change the word order in order to intensify the meaning:
Any native English speaker will tell you that "girl he loves" is not a sentence. Live in your dream world, where everyone speaks broken English; because I live in an English-speaking country.
Similar sentences that could be spoken are:
"Girl that he loves is pretty." (notice that "girl that he loves" is not a sentence)
"The girl he loves is pretty."
Notice that the African-American vernacular is a separate dialect with its own grammar, so any kind of example of "ebonics" should be reserved for a topic about it. That's right, even spoken languages have a grammar! In fact, unspoken languages like the Nicaraguan Sign Language have a grammar that little kids invented probably without knowing the very word grammar!
Girl he loves is a sentence O-S-P. Language is not restricted to complete sentences! He or love or just girl is part of spoken language! Not understanding it, is one of the reason that your Slovianski will never work!
Basically, it is not so frequently used but you can find it in some poems, poetic prose etc.
Nevertheless, English has got its stable grammar structure with word order in sentences but it doesn't have to be kept everywhere and every time.
There are many nuances of English demonstration whereby it might seem not being English.
A.A. Hill, Introduction to Linguistic Structures: From Sound to Sentence in English (1958); Samuel Jay Keyser and Paul M. Posral, Beginning English Grammar (1976); Paul Roberts, English Sentences (1962); Martin Joos, The English Verb (1964); H.A. Gleason, Linguistics and English Grammar (1965); N.C. Stageberg, An Introductory English Grammar, 3rd ed. (1977); A.E. Darbyshire, A Description of English (1967); R. Quirk et al., A Grammar of Contemporary English (1972); B.M.H. Strang, Modern English Structure, 2nd ed. rev. (1968); R.W. Zandvoost, A Handbook of English Grammar, 7th ed. (1975).
"Who could you see there ? " - he said.
"The girl, the boy loves." - answered the stranger.
"The girl, the boy loves" - is a sentence and "the girl" is in accusative and in the beginning of the sentence. Such kinds of sentences are often seen in some books.
"The girl the boy loves" (no comma) is not a sentence
it's a fragment, and people sometimes say fragments
there is no rule that says that everything you say must be a sentence
THE FULL SENTENCE:
"He sees the girl the boy loves"
Bull shit!
Even just Shit! or "ah!" is a sentence.
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sentence:
a word, clause, or phrase or a group of clauses or phrases forming a syntactic unit which expresses an assertion, a question, a command, a wish, an exclamation, or the performance of an action, that in writing usually begins with a capital letter and concludes with appropriate end punctuation, and that in speaking is distinguished by characteristic patterns of stress, pitch, and pauses
Ioannes pisal:
Guys, I would recommend you to read Noah Chomsky's books. One of the greatest lingvists...
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Zdrav Ioannes!
I agree with you, a lot!
He is not only one of the greatest linguists, but also a very progressive anti capitalist.
So, usually it doesn't. (Exceptions are some examples of 'archaicized' speech: "Me alone of the marine goddesses did he make subject to a mortal husband..." -- from The Iliad of Homer in Samuel Butler's translation)
And what? How it affects the idea of Pan-Slavic language?
It doesn't affect any idea of pan-slavic language. We just wanted to talk about
some aspects of English language, mainly about that word order in a sentence.
