Gabriel gvorit pravda:
Yes ... my Slovianski developed from a bullshit ...
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Nasx bilbi alhemist Gabriel mecxtat:
Yes ... my Slovianski developed from a bullshit to a natural language ...
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In order to become a what ever language there are some preconditions requierd which your language does not fullfil, namely:
1. A sufficient vovcabulary
just to copy Slovio or Russian texts and change the word endings is not enough.
2. A More or Less Solid Grammar and a Orthography
3. At Least two Speakers to start with
4. A Realistic Assessment that Others Will Want to Learn this Construction
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Leave alone that it is bullshit to reinvent the wheel, it is also wacky to assume that a sufficient number of people would like to learn a difficult "naturalistic" conlang..
A person with a common sense would instead learn a living existing Slavic language like Bulgarian or Russian.
1. We have a pretty large vocabulary now, over a thousand words. I'd prefer a good vocabulary of a thousand words than a bad vocabulary of a hundred thousand! Mistakes in the Slovio dictionary remain unfixed...
2. Slovianski-N and Slovianski-P have merged orthographies and have very well-defined grammars. I am going to change some things in the Slovianski-N grammar, but they are going to be minor changes. Like the -oj ending will be changed to -oju.
3. We have two speakers, Gabriel and I
4. Knowledge of Slovianski benefits the speaker... knowledge of the most common Slavic words that are not in your language will help you UNDERSTAND other Slavic languages
1. Reading the comments about your text "Praga", I can not see that you have a very good vocabulary
But you are right, Slovio´s vocabulary needs some improvement
2. Slovianski-N and Slovianski-P have merged orthographies ...
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I can not see any improvement here. No, it even got worse cf l´ and z´ e.g.
Up to now you are not able to present a good solution for Slovio´s cx, sx and zx (it is of course difficult, because Slovio´s use of "x" is unbeatable)
Instead you use a crippled Polish version: cz, sz and z´.
By the way, how many letters and letter combinations does Slovianski have? Slovio has only 25! And Slovianski I guess at least 40!
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3. We have two speakers, Gabriel and I
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Is it not frustrating after working so hard for almost 2 years, having only to speakers and those are the creators. So no user at all!!
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4. Knowledge of Slovianski benefits the speaker... knowledge of the most common Slavic words that are not in your language will help you UNDERSTAND other Slavic languages
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Ay Igor! You are a dreamer
You didn't say we needed more than two. If you said four I'd say MKD, Yaromir as well, although I don't know how much Slovianski they know
Slovianski orthography allows five palatalized letters:
t', d', l', r', n'
Also we use ž, š, č for post-alveolars
The thing is that when you solve a cross-word puzzle in Croatian, nj is a letter. In Slovio, do you write cx in one crossword puzzle square or each letter in two? In Croatian it's only one square. All of the Slovianski letters go into one square.
What I don't like about Slovio orthography: it writes too many ia, ie, etc. combinations
Even Polish and Slovak sometimes use the letter j in the middle of the word
like in the words odjazd or kraj
I think it's not at all confusing, in fact Slovianski uses j in Slavic words almost everywhere for clarity because j is usually pronounced in Czech in combinations ia/ie - [ija]/[ije]
I've already spoken about Marja/Marija - both are Russian names and there is no easy way to write it in Slovio to distinguish because if someone writes her name is Maria everyone will assume it's Marija
Igor pisal:
...What I don't like about Slovio orthography: it writes too many ia, ie, etc. combinations
Even Polish and Slovak sometimes use the letter j in the middle of the word
like in the words odjazd or kraj...
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ne dobrju primer, Igor:
1. od-jazd > tu j es na nacxenie slovom i
2. kraj > tu j es na koniec slovom.
Correction: ot is actually in the minority of Slavic languages (Russian, Bulgarian)
most languages changed ot to od due to the influence of nad and pod
I'll use od from now on
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Tu vnov vidijme zxe Slovianskivoi gramatika i ortografia ne es dobruo-definovalju.
Kto znajt ili Slvianski imajt historju ili fonetikju ortografia?
The advanatage of using j as little as possible is clear: less confusion. In many Slavic speaking countries using latin alphabet there is always some confusion whether to use i or j. The difference in sound is minimal, to insist on differentiating between the 2 doesnt make a sense. Even russians writing in latin alphabet dont differentite between the two. Those who insist on mixing i and j will just create more confusion and more problems for those learning Slovio (or a Slovio-clone).
But Slovio would not allow a j in words like informac(i)ja OR odja/ezd
the problem with Russians using the latin alphabet is that they use y for ы and й so they are forced to sometimes use i like in words krasnyi because krasnyy just looks stupid
Slovio uses ot so you would assume it's the best choice, but only Russian and Bulgarian know ot, every other Slavic language uses od.
Jogor verijt:
Slovio uses ot so you would assume it's the best choice, but only Russian and Bulgarian know ot, every other Slavic language uses od.
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every Slavs says OT, only some of them write it differently.
Therefore my question: is Slovinaki´s orthography phonetic or just, what I am afraid of, a chaotic mish-mash of all Slavic languages?
Not true, a Bulgarian will write "Обяви от България" but will say [od balgarija]
it depends on the next letter following the word!
as a prefix, Russian writes одбить but отпить because Russian writes prefixes phonetically
Also, Ukrainian doesn't even pronounce "від" as [vit] unless followed by a voiceless consonant, від мене is pronounced [vid mene]
Slovianski orthography is just as good as Polish, Czech, Slovak, Slovenian, Serbian and Macedonian orthographies that always write od!
The advanatage of using j as little as possible is clear: less confusion. In many Slavic speaking countries using latin alphabet there is always some confusion whether to use i or j. The difference in sound is minimal, to insist on differentiating between the 2 doesnt make a sense. Even russians writing in latin alphabet dont differentite between the two. Those who insist on mixing i and j will just create more confusion and more problems for those learning Slovio (or a Slovio-clone).
So why does Slovio still differentiate i and j? Either don't differentiate these two at all, or introduce Slavic rules for differentiating them. Current Slovio differentiates them by means of non-Slavic rules (cxai).
"Slovianski orthography is just as good as Polish, Czech, Slovak, Slovenian, Serbian and Macedonian orthographies that always write od!"
You should just say that Slovio-P-clone is odd.
Original slovio has only one: "ot". A logical and clear language cannot have both OD and OT because it creates confusion. But of course Slovio-P clone is not and never was logical.
Eugeniusx pisal:
Only the Russians, Ukrainians and Belorussians ( by the way does anybody know how many Belorussians still speak Belorussian?) write Wolfgang "wrongly".
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Gabriel ne korektuo otvetil:
Yes. Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians are a majority among the Slavs who write proper names phonetically.
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You are wrong again, Gabriel: phonetically correct is "Volfgang". There is no l´ in the German language.
Here again we see how stupid and inconsequential the patchwork Slovianski is.
Only because the Eastern brunch of the Slavic languages is "unable" to pronounce VoLFgang, are the rest of the Slavs (the majority of languages) forced to tie their tongues in knots.
Here we see again that Slovio is an all-Slavic helping language and not Slovianski.
We all write n.pr. "Volfgang" but any person has the right to pronounce it according to his "tongue" and not a according to the dictation of two guys.
You are wrong again, Gabriel: phonetically correct is "Volfgang". There is no l´ in the German language.
Ask Hellerick. As far as what I remember, he once explained here that the western l sounds to Russians more like their l' than l.
Only because the Eastern brunch of the Slavic languages is "unable" to pronounce VoLFgang, are the rest of the Slavs (the majority of languages) forced to tie their tongues in knots.
Of course, to write and pronouce the name in the original way is second good posibility. I just don't like it because a majority of Slavic languages don't treat proper names this way.
You are wrong again, Gabriel: phonetically correct is "Volfgang". There is no l´ in the German language.
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Gabriel skazal celo pravda:
Ask Hellerick. As far as what I remember, he once explained here that the western l sounds to Russians more like their l' than l.
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Razumijm! To znacxit, zxe Slovianski imat Rusju fonetika!
No, it just means that in terms of proper names, Slovianski uses a phonology of a majority of those Slavic languages that write proper names phonetically.
