Rusia denes po 15 roki znovil regulare dalekodistancie leti ov strategie aviacia krom toj teritorium. Prezident Vladimir Putin oglasil, z'e 14 rusie bombarderi startil denes aviacie skumanie dalno od rusie granica a to praks, kor il regulare vo c'as ov soviete era, em sledit do buduca.
Kao pric'ina, Putin predstavil hrozbi, kor pro Rusia predstavit militare sili ov ine krajini. "Mi res'il znovo startit leti ov rusie strategie aviacia na permanente princip", gvoril prezident c'eres komunite militare trenenie vo juge Ural, na kor participil so Rusia i C'ina, Kazah'stan, Kirgizia, Tadz'ikistan a Uzbekistan.
I just ask because you wrote oglasil, granica, govoril, juge without any [h]. If you prefer hrozba, I can't see any consistency there. You should choose only one reflex of proto-Slavic g.
Do you really think that Slavs will like to memorise that in your language, 9098 words have "g" and other 9252 words have "h", while all these words have the same sound in their native langauge, as they had the same sound (namely g) in proto-Slavic?
If you think that [gr] is too difficult to pronounce and has to be replaced with [hr], does your lang also have Hrecia (Greece), imihracia (immigration), hram (gramme)? Long live the Ukrainian langauge!
I don't know what is "GAVIRZOV", but in all the other cases it's exactly how we deformated Russians speak and spell.
Though I guess we are wrong about Gitler, Gamburg, Ganover, and Golivud -- in these cases the letters G don't stand for pra-Slavic sound /g/. It's just earlear the Cyrillic letter Г could stand for both /g/ and Czech /h/ sounds, and we had to memorize what it denotes in every foreign word. But later we became lazy and started to consider it as phoneme /g/ everywhere. Historically there is no reason of why there should be /g/ sound. (By the way, in the name Peterburg the last letter should be h too -- that's how it was originally pronounced.)
If you don't know what to write G or H, just ask South Slavs, they are always right.
A language that would want to preserve etymology as much as possible should have four letters:
1) a letter for native Slavic [g] sound that was shifted to [h] in Ukrainian, Belarusian, Czech and Slovak: glos, granica, govorit, jug, grozba
2) a letter for the [g] sound in foreign words - Ukrainian has such letter: G'recija, imig'racija, g'ram
3) a letter for foreign [h] sound - Polish has such a letter (h): hotel, Hitler, Holivud
4) a letter for [x] sound of whatever origin: xlodni, Xorvatija, bloxa
However, this is only a theoretical nonsense, as most languages have only two letters. Therefore Slovianski uses g [g] for 1) and 2), and h [x] for 4) and usually for 3) (as it usually has got a majority).
I will write Adol'f Hitler, Hamburg, Hanover, Holivud, Hradczani, Hradec Kralove, Havirszov, Jan Hus. Of course, you can pronounce it in the original way. Most Slavs, however, will read it as Adoµf Chitler, Chamburg, Chanover, Cholivud, Chradèani, Chradec Kralove, Charvir¹ov, Jan Chus (Slovak phonetic transcription), as there is no other possibility present in their phonetic inventory.
It's interesting that you are adding the letter " h " additionally as it wasn't in Slovianski before :
Because Slavs use either Latin alphabet (west Slavic, Croatian, Bosnian, Slovenian, Serbian) or Cyrillic alphabet (east Slavic, eastern south Slavic, Serbian) to write their languages and neither alphabet dominates the another one (neither Latin is sufficiently known in Cyrillic countries, nor Cyrillic is sufficiently known in Latin countries), both latinica and kirilica are allowed to write Slovianski-P.
latinica a b d dj e g v c č i j k l lj m n nj o p r s f h ž z t tj u š
kirilica а б д ђ е г в ц ч и ј к л љ м н њ о п р с ф х ж з т ћ у ш
Czechs and Slovaks should note that the sound of their [h] doesn't exist in a majority of Slavic languages and Slovianski doesn't therefore have it.
So, the czech name " HUDAK " will be pronounced in Slovianski as " CHUDAK " that means "poor man" despite of the name "Hudak" that originally means "musician".
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Don't you think that you make more difficulties by this as that you would keep original writing and pronunciation ?
So, the czech name " HUDAK " will be pronounced in Slovianski as " CHUDAK " that means "poor man" despite of the name "Hudak" that originally means "musician".
You can use the original pronunciation, but for most Slavs, the original pronunciation is far away from their mouths' possibilites.
I do not think that Mr. Hudak will be satisfied with such spelling.
Personal names shouldn't be deformated any way.
Imagine that your name or surname would be deformated somehow.
I would be funny for others.
If you were a Czech, you would probably be very angry that nobody can pronounce the name of Antonin Dvorak correctly. You should realise that Slavs are not going to learn to pronounce all the nearly 100 consonants and nearly 30 vowels that exist (according to IPA).
Yes, but his name is still written Antonin Dvorak in english, french, italian, dutch, german, spanish ...........
They do not have ø but they do not write some other letter instead of it but just "r". But when you change the all letter from "h" to "g" it is not just total different pronunciation but spelling as well.
In Slavic spellings, the foreign [h] sound is usually rendered:
- as g in Russian
- as what other Slavs read as g in Ukrainian/Belarusian
- as h in Polish
- as h in Czech/Slovak
- as h in Serbo-Croatian/Slovenian
- as h in Bulgarian/Macedonian
Therefore h wins.
In Slavic pronunciations, the foreign [h] is usually approximated:
- as [g] in Russian
- as [h] in Ukrainian/Belarusian
- as [x] in Polish
- as [h] in Czech-Slovak
- as [x] in Serbo-Croatian/Slovenian
- as [x] in Bulgarian/Macedonian
Therefore [x] wins.
So Hudak in Slovianski will be spelled Hudak and pronounced [xudak].
The above mentioned rules, however, don't usually concern Ukrainian and Belarusian names with [h]. They are often rendered with g [g] in other Slavic languages due to the Russian influence and half-correct transliterations. So if Hudak was an Ukrainian/Belarusian name, it would be Gudak [gudak] in Slovianski.
Maybe Mr. Gudak is a slavic name but Mr. Hudak is czech and slovak name as well.
So you canno write someone's name in different way. You can pronounce it as you like but name when it's written must be the same as he has it written in his documents, passport, ID card, bank accountant, school certificates .... etc.
If you came to Russia and wrote Gudak instead of Hudak - it could be considered as different person or somebody else from the other man.
Half of Russia pronounced the letter "g" as "h" (the southern part)
so at least half of them are saying it right!
Why not say that G can be pronounced as h and as g depending on which sound you're comfortable with?
Because Ukrainian and Belarusian Г are pronounced as h anyway, so why not just say that you can pronounced G as h as well since in Slovianski G = Г
All Slavs can pronounce and hear [g] and all Slavs can pronounce and hear [x], anyway. Those Slavs who are not accustomed to hearing [h] every day could mishear it as [x]. That's why I think that every letter should have only one official pronunciation.
Of course, proper names can be pronounced in the original way, if the speaker likes, but that's all.
You can pronounce it as you like but name when it's written must be the same as he has it written in his documents, passport, ID card, bank accountant, school certificates .... etc.
Of course, the name has to be written in the official form in official situations, but the inter-Slavic communication is not always official, you know?
No, we're not going to change Mladi to Mlodi unless other Slavs do. But this is not the case.
But we WILL change Mlady to Mladi
Your point that people will gear h as x is not quite correct
Half of the Slavic territory will hear it as h or g
But if we write Hudak then 90% of Slavs will read it WRONG, especially since most Slavs will read it in Cyrillic
If they are not able to read so not very complicated letter, I don't understand how they are able to learn much more complicated pronuciation in english, french, chinese, arabic, etc.
How do they do it in English, for instance ? There are a lot of words begining in letter "h" ?
My opinion is - " if they are able to learn english words then there is no difficulty learning pronunciation of the letter " h ".
if they are able to learn english words then there is no difficulty learning pronunciation of the letter " h "
I agree with iopq, the premise of this statement is not true. For you, [h] is not very complicated letter, for most Slavs it is. For me, [Å™] (r with caron) is not very complicated, for all others it is. For you, [l'] (soft l) is not very complicated letter, for me it is. Etc.
Your point that people will gear h as x is not quite correct
It is quite correct. Remember what I told you about the history of Polish language. All the nations neighbouring Poland have [h] - Germans, Czechs, Slovaks, Ukrainians, Belarusians. So when Poles wanted to adopt some foreign word, they adopted it primarily from their neighbours. When the foreign word contained [h], it was no problem for them to keep the h spelling - but they heared [h] as [x] and therefore they have beem prnouncing h as [x] till now.
