November 15 2007 at 2:07 PM No score for this post
Kogda operativne robotniki miliciji uvedali do kuda iznikli 29 obitovatelev sela Nikolskoje (Penzinska oblast, Rosija) oni mali šok. Už cela sedmica 29 človekov sidejet zamurovane pod zemej. Vsred ih su male deta i 80-letne starci. Nedavno oni opovedali če oni ušli dočekivat se Sudnogo dnja.
Oficialno ime sela gde vse to vipadlo je Nikolskoje. Ale mestne obitovateli dali jemu ino ime: Poganovka ili Durakovo (to je „Glupkovo“).
„Ljudi ktore tut žili vsegda bili čudne.“ — govorijut mestne obitovateli. — „Nejaki narod počal sberat se tut poltora leta tomu-nazad. Oni žili v opuščenih domah (tut ih mnogo, tolko stare ljudi ješče žili v sele). Na toj sedmice oni iznikli. Mi mislili če oni ušli do nekuda. Kto znal če oni ušli pod zemju!“
Do nedavogo časa, o tom če poz zemej v jednoj iz tesnin zamurovali se 29 človek, bilo praktično nemožlivo odgadat — sneg pokril vsju zemju.
Ljudi tak bi i čekali Sudnogo dnja, jesli bi v selo ne prišla Oksana, dočerka jednoj iz žen ušedvših v Poganovku. Ona pribegnula v mestnu prokuraturu uprosila nahodit jej matku. Operativne robotniki miliciji počali vipitovat Petra Kuznecova.
„On odperal se dolgo,“ — govorijut oni. — „On govoril če ih treba ne virušovat, če oni vibrali nejako mesto, i rešili dočekivat se tam do Sudnogo dnja v maje 2008 leta. I togda mi jemu kazali, če tutčas mi porvemo vse jego knižki — ničo ino mi ne mogli umislit. Kuznecov ustrašil se i pokazal to mesto.“
Tutčas ono je blokovano milicijeju. Situacija je takže pod kontrolem regionalnoj administraciji.
„Nad tesninoj je vidna para. Pustovniki nad soboju vysvidrovali šest otvorkov — to je ih ventilacija,“ — govori prokuror Bekovskogo distrikta Penzinskoj oblasti Alevtina Volčkova. Ona činila perve pregovori s zamurovanimi ljudjami. Poka to je bez efekta. Mi vodili do tuda starcov i kaplanov, ale oni ne hotejut nikogo sluhat. Oni mislili če budut v pokoje, a mi domolvivajemo ih vihodit. Oni grozijut če spalijut sebe. Oni už majut vse čo im treba: i jedlo, i gazove baloni.
Volčkova prišla iz sela v doslovno šokovom stane — ničo tako nikogda ne bilo v tutčasnoj Rosije.
„Ja sama jsem matka, i jsem nepokojna ob detah. Naj-mlodo dete tam je poltora leta. Ja govorila s više starimi, ale im vsem promidli mozki — oni odpovedajut če vse je dobro, i če oni hotejut ostavat se s rodicami. Govorijut tolko če-bi mi uhodili. Mi už počali kriminalnu pracu po punktu ‚Tvorenije reliigjnogo spločenstva s podstrekanijem ljudov odmovit se od norm civilnogo spločenstva‘ “.
Ljudi iz Rostova, Moskovskoj oblasti i Belorusiji šli v Poganovku k svojemu učitelju — inspektor Gennadij Bulajev dopitival jego sedem časin — to je 43-letni Petr Kuznecov.
„To je neotesani muž v nečistom oblačenije, s dlinimi grubimi kudlami.“ — govorijut v prokurature. — „Čo oni v nem nahodili?“
Po neoficialnoj informacije, ktoru tutčas proverijut v Prokurature, Kuznecov, kaleka 2-go tipa, terpi shizofreniju. Nekolko letov tomu-nazad on rozvedl se, i napisal nejake knigi. On proboval propovedat jego ideji v Belorusije, ale specialne službi vignali jego iz kraja za porušenije pasportnih pravidl.
„Jego doktrina je zaprečenije vsego čo možno zapretit: INN (identifikacijni numer takso-platitelja), pasporti, milicija, Internet; to je vse atributi tutčasnogo žitija,“ — govori Gennadij Bulajev.
Glovne kaplani Penzi hodijut k tesnine každi den. Oni govorijut če to už ne možno zvat sektoju. „Mi prosimo Boga vivest tih zabludnutih ljudev k svetlu,“ — kazal otec Filaret.
Tatjana Vitebskaja, „Izvesija“, 2007-14-11
Note: INN is taxpayer’s ID number. Any tax-paying entity in Russia (a person, organization, wending machine etc.) has it. Russian Orthodox Church furiously opposed its introduction, because they always managed to find the number of the Beast in it.
Why "milicijeju" ? Militia is a military corp not a police. This word comes from military or militaria or ...... and is connected with army, solders and war - not police, gerdarmeria etc. Russians have this meaning wrongly understood.
Militia (Russian: мили́ция, IPA: [mʲi'lʲitsɨja]; Ukrainian: мiлiцiя; Belarusian: мiлíцыя; Bulgarian: милиция; Polish: milicja; Romanian: miliţia; Slovenian: milicija; Serbo-Croat: milicija/милиција; Macedonian: милиција) was used as a short official name of the police in in several former communist states, despite its original military conotation.
Yes, it is a confusing word. I think it would be best to use just stalo sja.
Why " obitovateli " ? why not only "obivateli". why do you insert there - to -
Two fighting, the third one laughing: obitateli is most common.
Russians have this meaning wrongly understood.
Why the hell should we, the Slavs, creating our language, care about how our words are used by west Europeans, Romans, Greeks, Proto-Indo-Europeans or speakers of any other language?
It means "to happen". Sorry, I don't know a good word for it.
obitovateli
That's a Frankenstein-word: it's a mixture of words obyvateli and obitateli with similar meaning. I thought that everyone who knows at least one of them would understand it.
No we didn't. According to Bolsheviks' ideas, "police" is an organization used by a tyranny to oppress its subjects, while "militia" is organization of citizens used to defend themselves. Bolsheviks meant that there will be no tyranny anymore.
Bolsheviks are popular maybe in Russian, Belorussia and Ukraine but they have never been popular in Poland, Czechia and Slovakia. The people in these countries always hated the bolsheviks and communists. Just a very few of people (colaborants and traitors "loved" them because they had some advantages from them like better jobs, better salaries, better holidays, better, better and better. Everything for them was better as for common people.
They simply took a chance and "abused" that system of state functioning for their prosperity. They never cared about the rest of people (majority of people in those countries), they "saw" just themselves and neglected the others.
People in Poland, Slovakia and Czech republic still hate bolsheviks and communists. What, do you think, for ? Ask them they will tell you the truth.
Slavo skribal:
People in Poland, Slovakia and Czech republic still hate bolsheviks and communists. What, do you think, for ? Ask them they will tell you the truth.
===
To sto procent fasxistju! Hitlervoi skribniki to pisal!
OR IN OTHER WORDS:
Why should, e.g. , we hate all Christians? Only because the catholic Christina Church is a Mafia organisation and the biggest mass murderer of all the times!
Maybe you come from bolsehvik's family but majority of slavs NOT.
It has nothing to do with "majority of Slavs". Milicija is the term for police organs of Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus; we use it, we are okay with it, and I don't think we should consider somebody else's opinion for it. For a more wide term a police-dericed word should be used of course. The word milicija is historically-founded and I like it. Maybe I hate Bolsheviks, but still our army and police were founded by them. Yes, they are descendants of organizations that they did participate in terror against Russian and Soviet cictizens, but it would be stupid just to forget their names and pretend that the events of our history didn't exist.
Eugeniusx, why do you live in that fucking, fascist and terrorist Germany then ? Why don't you go to live to Russia or Belarussian or Ukraine ?
These countries would suit you more than "fascist", capitalist Germany.
Who do you think are the people older than 80 in present-day Germany ?
They were all of them former soldiers of fascist Hitler's Germany who killed, raped, destructed, demolished all that was created in central and eastern Europe. They were in one-word BARBARIANS !
They were all of them former soldiers of fascist Hitler's Germany who killed, raped, destructed, demolished all that was created in central and eastern Europe. They were in one-word BARBARIANS !
At least two thirds of Slavs would do the same in their position.
So you're saying that Slavs are somehow better than everyone else? If 2/3 of all people would do the same, then where's your proof that Slavs are so good, when the Russians achieved in conquest a largest land area empire in the world?
So you're saying that Slavs are somehow better than everyone else? If 2/3 of all people would do the same, then where's your proof that Slavs are so good, when the Russians achieved in conquest a largest land area empire in the world?
Not because russians achieved in conquest a largest land. It doesn't concert this matter at all. But because antihumanistic bolshevic / communist regime
in post soviet republics and central European countries murdered millions of people in anti-humanistic conditions in gualags and prisons around the whole central and east European territory.
You have probably very distorted facts or you are so young that you haven't passed through all of this represions and torturing of mostly inocent people.
Everythin came from former USSR and spread into all theWarsaw Pakt countries and even to former Yugoslavia.
I lived through those times so nobody in the world can try to persuade me about something else as I lived and felt "on my own skin".
Most of you are very young to judge thouse terrible days full of violance and dehonestations of human's life.
You cannot tell me that those times were different. You didn't live in those times in those countries as the millions did and suffered.
I lived through those times so nobody in the world can try to persuade me about something else as I lived and felt "on my own skin".
Most of you are very young to judge thouse terrible days full of violance and dehonestations of human's life.
You cannot tell me that those times were different. You didn't live in those times in those countries as the millions did and suffered.
I am very aware of the red terror, I celebrate the 18th anniversary of its end today, yet this doesn't imply I should think that only Russians would be able to do it.
Only because they weren't allowed to. History shows us examples of Slovaks, Czechs, and Poles discriminating and oppressing other peoples. "Naturally-good-natured" nations don't exist. Poles did oppress Ukrainians, Czechs did oppress Germans, Slovaks do oppress Hungarians just now, not to mention that during WWII most Slovaks were willing allies of Nazi Germany.
Minor nations commit minor crimes.
I believe that every person dreams about building up concetration camps for somebody. It's just some nations manage to use their chance, and some don't.
- do you have any evidence of your allegation ? If not - don't say such stupidities.
I have, just look at the history. Before 1918, Czechs complained about being discriminated in Austria-Hungary by the more numerous Germans. As soon as the Austrian-Hungarian empire had fallen, Czech suddenly became relatively more numerous in their land - and their conquered large teritories inhabited by Slovaks, Rusyns, north Hungarians, Sudetenland Germans and south Silesian Poles. Then they their own national state on the conquered territories (Czechoslovakia) and started to discriminate the defeated nations. After WW2, they expelled Germans and brought communism to Slovakia. (Slovakia was the only country in the world where communism came from the west; yet if this didn't happen, the communism would surely come from the east anyway.) Then the Czech domination was replaced by the Russian one.
Resume: Czechs pretended to be an innocent victim of foreign oppersion, yet they started the same oppression against others as soon as they got their chance.
Gabriel, I am a slovak and what you write is almost the truth but that's the matter of politicians not common people in Czechia and Moravia. Or do you think that the common people in towns and villages agreed with that what czech government did ? I doubt very much. Yes, there were some bad practics applying some rules on slovak and Zakarpatska Ukrajina but it was done just by bad law and rules that were created by some maybe czech nationalists - not common people there. Even there are some attempts to acquire slovak northern territories by the polish (and as the history proves they did so and took over some small parts of Slovakia near the High Tatras, Orava and Spis. But it was again done by some small group of people in Poland not by common people.
Slovaks lost land in eastern part (Zakarpatska Ukrajina) that was literaly "stolen" by ukrainians or better russians who controlled that territory after WW2. Even today some old people speak slovak language there and are saying that being in Slovakia it was better than it was in the USSR or present day Ukraine.
Today Magyars want to steel the southern lands and join Hungary. In all the history of the slovaks always somebody wanted to steel the slovaks' land.
Slovaks lost land in eastern part (Zakarpatska Ukrajina) that was literaly "stolen" by ukrainians or better russians who controlled that territory after WW2. Even today some old people speak slovak language there and are saying that being in Slovakia it was better than it was in the USSR or present day Ukraine.
"According to the 1880 census, the population of the present-day territory of Carpathian Ruthenia (Zakarpattia Oblast) was composed of:
Ruthenians/Rusyns = 244,742 (59.8%)
Hungarians = 105,343 (25.7%)
Germans = 31,745 (7.8%)
Romanians = 16,713 (4.1%)
Slovaks and Czechs = 8,611 (2.1%)
others = 1,817 (0.5%)
According to the 1989 census, the population of the present-day territory of Carpathian Ruthenia (Zakarpattia Oblast) was composed of:
Ukrainians = 976,749 (78.4%)
Hungarians = 155,711 (12.5%)
Russians = 49,456 (4.0%)
Romanians = 29,485 (2.4%)
others
According to the 2001 census [1], the population of Zakarpattia Oblast was composed of:
Ukrainians = 1,010,100 (80.5%)
Hungarians = 151,500 (12.1%)
Romanians = 32,100 (2.6%)
Russians = 31,000 (2.5%)
Roma people = 14,000 (1.1%)
Slovaks = 5,600 (0.5%)
German = 3,500 (0.3%)"
So I can see nothing that would make it possible to call Carpatian Ruthenia a stolen Slovak territory. It can't even be considered to be a part of Slovakia historically. In 1918, Slovakia had no historical borders in the south or in the east. Only the western border (to Czechia) and the northern border (to Poland) are historically well-defined.
Today Magyars want to steel the southern lands and join Hungary.
They are not your southern lands, they are their nothern lands:
This is the result of the Czech chauvinism described above - Czechs needed to get some access to the Danube. If it weren't for Czech chauvinism, nobody would ever try to call these territories Slovak, not even in the most profund dream.
in Czechia and Moravia
Just a small technical detail: Czechia = Bohemia + Moravia. You should say either "Czechia" or "Bohemia and Moravia", otherwise you include Bohemia twice.
Slovaks were fighting alongside with Germans during WWII. In fact they were the only nation beside Germany who invaded Poland in 1939 (well, beisdes Russians ). The only reason of why they weren't used on the East front is that they were too slow to keep up with German's advance into Soviet territory. But they were used at the rear lands to suppress uprising, and fight with local partisans in Ukraine and Southern Russia.
And about the Slovak-Hungarian question... Of course historically the territory has nothing to do with Slovakia. But on the other hand I don't think such thing as wrong boundaries exists. The regime can be wrong, not the boundaries. Local Hungarians shouldn't be deprived of their rights just because the boundaries "went wrong" for some reason.
In Finland Swedes are 5.5% of poluation. And Swedish is its official language. In Switzerland Italians are 6.5% of population. And Italian is its official language.
In Slovakia Hungarians are 9.5% of population, and till Hungarian will be declared its official language I won't consider it a democratical nation.
The same goes for Ukraine and other such examples.
Hellerick, you have very, very poooooooooooooooooor knowledge of slovak and czech history. I advice you to learn and study more but not just people say in Germany, USA, UK, Russia or whatever you may be but go there to those countries and ask old people how was and is the situation direct there.
Many fact you have on internet and foreign newspapers, magazines, films etc, are very distorted. You know almost nothing about tha real fact how it was with madars and germans on Czechoslovak territory for the past, let's say 200 years.
Bolsxost ludi v tut strana argumentovajut RASISTJU tak kak fasxistju Nimieci.
Rasizm (albo imenit to nacionalizm, religiosju fanatizm itd.) mozxime klasificovat do dva glovnju grupi:
1. Taki(mensxost)kto inventoval to bikju govno, abi manipulovat glupju masa i
2. Taki(bolsxost)kto verajut to bikju govno i faktuo tozx ubijut ih praroditeli, ih brati i sestri.
The position of being told by the authorities that it is okay to kill Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, anti-Nazis etc. Just as in the Milgram's experiment, the teacher was told by the authority (the experimentator) that it is OK to apply 150 volts against the innocent pupil who shouts for pain and asks for help; only one third of the teachers left the experiment in such situation, all others continued and applied the 150 volts.
Gabriel, only one think you can loose in this world and it's your life. Nothing else and nobody else can tell you or direct you to do this or that.
Each of germans could refuse to go to war BUT ONLY VERY FEW OF THEM REFUSED IT and the rest celebrated Hitler and killed, murdered, tortured, raped the population in many countries in Europe.
Each of russians could refuse to go to murder people in Poland, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia (I mean the military incidents on borders with former Yugoslavia where soviet soldiers were shooting at yugoslavs form hungariana, romanian and bulgarian frontier lines)and do represions on citizens but ONLY VERY FEW OF THEM REFUSED IT. Majority obeyed what they were told - the same way as the fascists did.
Don't you know what would happen to a Soviet or a Nazi German soldier who would refuse to obey? Would you really like to lose your life only not to have to take part in crimes - if you want others to sacrify their lifes this way?
And would you like to take part in war crimes (murdering others mainly inocent people in other countries) instead of loosing your life ?
Difficult question, isn't it ?
* there was also the third way - escaping from these dictator countries (of course you could loose your life in this case as well) But it's always better way than killing inocent people, isn't it ?
There are written historical proofs that hundreds of thousands of Germans and their collaborationist took part in war crimes, but there are no historical facts, as far as I know, that somebody was executed in fascist Germany, because he refused to participate in a war crime!
there are no historical facts, as far as I know, that somebody was executed in fascist Germany, because he refused to participate in a war crime
Of course there aren't - if a soldier refuses to obey, he is given a shot by the commander; but in order not to demoralise his relatives, his death is classified as a death in the heoric fight against enemies.
What you propose is ridiculous. All human lifes have basically the same value, yo can't say that a soldier's life is less valuable than a civilan's life. If somebody decides to sacrify their life to save another one, we call him a saint, but if he doesn't decide to do so, we don't call him a criminal, but just a normal human manipulated into a difficult situation.
You know in in the early 20th century there were ideas of transforming of Austria-Hungarian Empire into United States of Greater Austria, a federation of ethnic-based states. Just for fun I made a map on which the proposed states overlap the contemporary countries.
The map give us idea of how the concept of Slovakia changed for the last 100 years. And also it explains why Hugarians feel so pissed off now.
.... And also it explains why Hugarians feel so pissed off now......
Hellerick, you ,as I found out, have very poor knowledge about the whole situation in history between the slovaks and magyars (hungarians).
don't read such scrap and shit documents and internet infos from americans, british, french, germans, magyars, austrians ..... and start to read what is in historical documents in slavic countries about it and talk to old people and have debates with historians in Slovakia.
Magyars, because they made a huge amount of unreliable and deceptive publications and books which they presented for many years to the West because of their strong lobby in western world (magyars played some role in writing the US view to Austro-Hungarian Monarchy) and by these "thought out" and untruthfull "facts" they defaced the slovak - magyar history. Now, this their garbled information history is taught at magyar schools and that's why the people in present-day Hungary do not know the true history about what everything was done in A-H Monarchy and after that. Namely, they write and taught just what suits to them and real facts are omitted and rewritten to appear the effect that they were those who "suffered" and were "deceived".
No, I just want to emphesize who should be more "pissed off" according to history, not what or who is what or who on the present-day territory.
The people e.g. in the southern parts of today Slovakia are originaly slovaks who were manipulated and brain-washed by some magyars to use hungarian language and to tell their children the untruth about who were the magyars and where they came from.
The different situation was with the czechs and germans. The time the czechs came to present-day czech territory there were germanic tribes that were cast off from this territory by raids of slavic czechs. There were no czech tribes the time the old Roman Empire armies faught with germanic tribes on present - day czech territory.
This is bloody nonsense. Look at the encyclopedia Britannica. All of easter germany, Bavaria, northern Switzerland have been originally SLAVIC LANDS. Even the spring of Danube, nearly by the french border is called "BREG", a typical Slavic name, which proves that the Slavic lands extended all the way to Rhine and todays France.
At the beginning of the first millenium, about a thousand years before the Magyars, Tatars, Gingis-Khan and the Turks, from the same area of western Mongolia came the nomadic proto-German tribes on their horses and they travelled across Slavic territory all the way to the North-Sea, today's Holland. There they settled and slowly multiplied.
The Black Death in the thirtheenth century has decimated SLAVIC inhabitants of Europe, because it came from Asia and the Slavs didn't have any immunity against that. On the other hand, such originally Asian nomads as the Germans, Magyars and Turks have had greater immunity to the Black Death and thus had survived in greater numbers.
The expansion of the Germanic tribes and their invasion of traditionally Slavic lands (Austria, Bavaria, Saxony, Switzerland) came only after the Black-Death epidemic, since due to their Mongolian-Asian genes they had greater immunity and higher survival-rates.
Even today in their language you can see that the Germanic-Nomads have a language similar in sound to Turkish, Hungarian, Estonian, Mongolian.
Countries are a relatively new invention. Earliest nations were tribes, not countries, and the very idea of some land attributed to some nation didn't exist. They were migrating all the time. There were no "originally Slavic lands" lands, 'cause in different time different peoples passed through them. Goths and Bastarns were wondering through the same territory as Slavs in the 8th century you like so much. Not to mention Illyrians and some Celtic, Baltic, and Finnish tribes.
The people e.g. in the southern parts of today Slovakia are originaly slovaks who were manipulated and brain-washed by some magyars to use hungarian language and to tell their children the untruth about who were the magyars and where they came from.
Such thoughts are a beautiful example of denying somebody's right for ethnic self-determination.
I don't care where Hungarians came from, the point is that currently they are a well-developed European nation, and their country is the smallest Hungarian country in history, while many their compatriots are forced to live in "somebody else's" countries.
that's right and they will for next thousand years live on somebody's else land but they'll never have what they had before e.g. Austro-hungarian monarchy. It's over forever.
There is one fact now and it is that there are no slavic countries and slavic tribe and slavic nation and slavic people any more. Just languages left.
Russians, belorussians and ukrainians are not the slavs. They are the descendants of mongolo-tatar wild nomad tribes that swept westward from east hudreds years ago. Polish are not the slav any more. They are mixture of germans, swedes, french, austrians, turks, avars, mongols and tatars. The same the czechs and slovaks mixed more with the magyars. Former Yugoslavs are the mixture of the turks, germans, italians, greeks, austrians and magyars. Bulgarians are not the slavs at all.
So what left after all ? Nothing from the original slavs. It's gonne - forever!
It's a nationalistic theory the same as yours - citizenship.
And there is no point to emphesize something like "the common language for all slavs". Who are these fucking "slavs" ? They are not any slavs any more.
The past is gone and slavicizm is gone with it, too.
There is no need to put together any slavs - because they do not exist any more.
You are just blinded fanatics about building up something that does not exist any more and never will be. I ask you one very basic question ; Who is who in this fucking world ? "
Do you all think that you are the right slavs ? It's not absolutely true.
We are all mixed up bastards from many nations and tribes.
Well, then what are you fighting for and what are you trying for ?
You don't need to create one all-slavic langauge. It's not needed. Within several dozens or hundreds years the whole Europe will be more and more mixed up and the all its languages will be so interfered each other that there will be needed any artificial langauge for people. This language will be created step by step by themselves by mixing the marriaged couples from different nations and countries. There will be needed no esperanto or slovio or ido or slovianski or s-lingva or any other - there will be created one common language by natural way adding words and parts of grammar from one language to another by step by step and not immedialely. It will take some time but it will come true one day. But we will not be here any more.
Re: One natural common language for people of Europe.
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November 18 2007, 4:44 PM
As I said - it will take some time but this process has started right now in many countries in Europe where the polish, czechs, slovaks, croatians, even russians and ukrainians started to pick up some words into their own mother tongues. It is seen right now when you speak to some of these guys who are working abroad or are learning foreing languages in their mother countries.
It's not like you seem that hmm, let's go to creat some "all slavic language" for all the slavs or some auxilliary communication language for the slavs.
It won't go this way. It has started the way I described above.
Well, all this your effort is just FOR YOU ONLY and nobody from any slavic country will accept your ideas. The same way as not all the mankind has accepted the ideas of one common language for all - esperanto.
It will never happen the way the esperantists or you are trying with your artificial languages.
It will be done by natural selection of words by people not what you select.
Re: One natural common language for people of Europe.
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November 18 2007, 8:30 PM
How do you or anybody else knows that R1a1 haplogroup marker is that right one ?
Where the antropologists took the samples from ? which skeletons ?
And if so, how do they know that those haplogroup marker is that the righ one taken from this or that skeleton ?
For more than 1000 years is all the main european groups totaly mixed up caused by raiders form east(huns, mongols, magyars, turks, avars) gypsies, jews etc. and from south through Africa (arabs and the african blacks)
These samples taken from anywere and from anybody are not 100% proved as evidence of anything.
