What is the matter with the Slovio Yahoo Group. I tried to make 2 posts, but till now the posts were not distributed, because thay have to be approved.
I think the main problem is such: Slovio is a great language project, but I am afraid that it is promoted in a very inadequate way. It is too much burdened with political panslavic visions.
The website slovio.com is great, but very confusing. It contains a lot of strange links to obscure panslavistic sites and websites with dating issue, marriage agencies etc.
Of course a projekt like Slovio costs money and maybe this is a way to finance it, but as a result it looses seriousness and credibility.
Slovio needs new and open forums. Maybe we shall create a Google Group which is open to anybody. It costs nothing.
Slovio should keep its current simple grammatical system. If it is changed to look like a natural slavic language it would use its meaning.
Esperanto was relative successful in comparison to other constructed language projects, because it kept its basic simple structure. All reform projects to make it more natural failed nearly completely.
So Slovio should learn this lesson and stay as it is, but better promote itself!
Here is my Forum. Everyone is also welcome there. http://esperlando.com/eforumo I must admit, I quite like some of the issues of Slovio, but to general public it is often way to heavy. There are needed more sites in Slovio that would be more general and practical. I have moved some of such issues on my site in relation to Esperanto as well. At Esperanto, there is way to much of the "New World Order" propaganda, plenty of Polititical Correctness and really not much other substance. This will surely kill that movement if it keeps going this way. It sure like hell gave me gutfull, even despite my over 35 years in this movement. Enough is enough...
In the meantime, I try to do little bit of work to try change this. I put Slovio link permanently on my site, and there is also link to the Forum. All ae invited to come and meet there. Here is the address. http://www.esperlando.com It is a site in three languages: Esperanto, English and Polish. If you have some ideas or propositions concernig Slovio, or more general, alternative energies, etc, I will be happy to publish them on this site.
Zdrav
Zbigniew
Please tell me one thing that we took from Slovio that wasn't in a Slavic language to begin with. Oh wait, we wouldn't use anything that's not in a Slavic language to begin with.
Igor pisal:
Please tell me one thing that we took from Slovio that wasn't in a Slavic language to begin with. Oh wait, we wouldn't use anything that's not in a Slavic language to begin with.
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Slovianski Verzia I
you just introduced, not consequently though, gender (na primer: pisal, pisala, pisalo) and you replaced cx, sx and zx with cz, sz and zz. Everybody can see that "zz" is confusing and no Slavic language could accept this.
The rest was basic Slovio.
Slovianski Verzia II
to bil jego rozkvit! One invented more than 100 proverbs. One hand introduced 6 cases wheareas the other hand believed to have had none. They introduced a voting system to create a Frankenstein-language.
Slovianski Verzia III
they are trying to "create" a natural Slavic language. And who the fuck needs this???
They left the path of creating a simplified Slavic helping language. Bone voyage!
blokovat'/zablokovat' - why do you use perfect tense. You can use also odblokovat'.
bombardovat'/vibombardovat' - the same problem.
kostni mozok - I've never heard about "bone brain"
zloupotrebjat'/zloupotrebit', soprovodžat'/soprovodit', priznavat'/priznat', unevin'at'/unevinit',
dodavat'/dodat', ovplivn'ovat'/ovplivnit', cel'ovat'/pricelit', gnevat'/rozgnevat', verit'/uverit', blokovat'/zablokovat', bombardovat'/vibombardovat' ...... - isn't it too difficult or useless to use double form of verbs ??? (it complicate the language)
You use many times the perfect tense of the verb, not its simple form (one form is simple infinitive and the other is perfect form (goret'/sgoret')
sprašivat'/sprosit', javjat' sa / objavit' sa, odvročat'/odvrotit', stavat'/stat', počinat'/počat',
And who do you think will learn both forms ? NOBODY !
Even 2 forms of the same meaning ( javjat' sa / objavit' sa ) - it's useless language luxury.
vooruženi - why use vo- when much easy is oruz'eni.
As we can see both Slovio and all the forms of Slovianski are languages with defections / shortages.
Igor pisal:
Every slavic language has the distinction between perfective and imperfective verbs.
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Every slavic language has a chaotic plural ending itd. itd...
That is the point, Igor! Do you want to have copy of a Slavic language or do you want to have a simplified Slavic helping language?
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Вчера четох една книга
Yesterday, I read a book but I didn't finish it
Slovio: вчера четал книга
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Вчера прочетох една книга
Yesterday, I finished reading a book
Slovio: вчера кончил читат книга
But it doesn't mean that that artificially constructed should be "in the middle".
I agree that "in the middle" should be vocabulary but not grammar. Grammar is something else.
It should be as simplified as possible, it's undoubtfully the truth. The other matter is vocabulary
that should be mostly one common (as much as possible). So your arguments are somewhere in the middle ( partly Slovio's, partly Slovianski's).
These arguings are leading to nowhere. How about make some compromise - creating some simplified
grammar sturcture (as much as possible, but understandable) and one common vocabulary for all the Slavs that would be mostly understandable (of course, some additional "unknown" words are acceptable).
Do you (all) know why The Great Moravia decayed ? Because there were 3 sons of Svatopluk that are very similar to you - you re quarelling about such aspects that are easily to be solved out.
Pan-Slavism is mostly an aesthetic and cultural movement. I was on Pan-Slavic web sites (on real Pan-Slavic web sites, not on this one), what people do discuss there is literature, architecture, religion, songs and dances etc. To get these people interested in the topic of Pan-Slavic language you have to make it guided by the principles of aesthetics and Slavic culture. The principle of primitivity, dominating in Slovio just does scare these people away. If you'll tell them that they have to use the letter X because it's easier to type than carons, they just will spit on you.
The Pan-Slavic language will be successful when it will be designed by poets and artists thoughtful for Slavic languages and culture, and not by ignorant people who are proud of not being able to grasp the real linguistic concepts.
And how about use apostrophe (instead of X or diacritical marks) - it would be slightly acceptable
compromise.
You may be right about poets, writers and other intelectuals but lots of people (in the slavic countries) have got some problems with their even mother tongue grammars - have a look at e.g. slovakian or czech or polish primary school children that have rather big problems with their mother tongue grammars that are too complicated for them (too many endings in declinations, genders, etc.)
I think even simple formed grammar language can be easily adapted into any literary
work and having any complicated talks with your friends or bloggers.
As I proposed before the simple grammar structure lang with primarily based slavic vocabulary would be appropriate for all the Slavs regardless it is for intelectuals or working people.
maybe there is still a bit of brain substance left in you, Smarkacx. So let me ask you one question.
Which solution is ORTHOGRAPHICALLY better to present the letters ч, ш and ж?
It's good that you have offered no reason for your "diagnosis"
Of course, you think you know better than the people of Slovenia, Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Slovakia, and the Czech Republic how to write Latin
Just because you're Polish and you hate the letters
EVERY
OTHER
SLAVIC
LATIN
uses doesn't mean you should call me ignorant
the fact is, all countries that spell using Latin use č, ž, š except Poland which is why you're so bitter about these letters
It is nobody else but the G-I-H troika who is crippling the Slavic helping language again and again.
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If you are sure that your Frankenstein-language is better than Slovio, why do you not than create your own forum?
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Is it not insanitary and stinking to nest in the forum of others and shit into it again and again?
smarkacx skribal:
Č Š Ž and Ч Ш Ж
No other option can be seriously considered.
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aha! ch, sh and zh used to write Russian with Latin letters cannot be seriously considered!
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Ay Pahol!
You can even write these marks on any keyboard, they are even a bit slavic (e.g. in slovak and czech words like t,d,l, for softening are used as t',d',l' very often) and apostrophe is not any letter in any at least european language.
Those are at least 3 + for apostrophe.
It's not any "x" that is the mark :
1. in mathematics
2. as the letter in some languages
And on the other hand you cannot write č, š, ž on every european latinized keyboard.
Anyway, in every proposal we could find some kind of barrier for not accepting this or that.
There is NO perfect grammar structure or vocabulary or writing or alphabet that would suit everybody and everywhere.
Since the people are not perfect they cannot have perfect langauge.
obviously a Pole can tell between these two words by sound
but the logic is kind of weak because cz is post-alveolar, while l' and t' are palatal (in Slovak)
so other languages actually don't use the haczek on top of an n or l instead using nj and lj
but nj and lj are ambiguous combinations in words like injekcija where it's supposed to be pronounced separately
OK, but C and Z are separate letters whereby ' (apostrophe) is neither separate letter nor sound.
That's why this apostrophe can be used for softening c,s,z (c',s',z').
Using another letter (j) for softening (nj and lj) from the letter point of view is not a good solution.
The same ˇ ( "v" over some letters ) is also not very good and useful solution.
Also the totaly different letters (like the russian has) for č, š, ž letters is also not very good
solution as these letters are very close to c,s,z and make totaly different letters just for softening them is out of point.
That's why I propose this apostrophe (') that doesn't change the original (voicing syllabels)
and doesn't change these letters.
but when you write mec' to mean "sword" Eugeniusz will be very confused and ask what you "have"
if you write roskos' I will wonder what's "slanted" even though you might have meant "luxury"
etc.
and you don't understand that it can be any word not just "roskos'" or "mec'".
This is about softening of these 3 consonants (c,s,z) and it doesn't have to be just mec' or
roskos'. all right ?
The problem is, something you dont understand because you either have an American or Russian keyboard and there is the standard apostrophe. BUT ON MANY OTHER KEYBOARDS IT DOES NOT EXIST AND IF THEY SEE IT ON INTERNET IT DOES NOT LOOK LIKE APOSTROPHE BUT LIKE AN EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPH. If you knew that then you wouldnt talk around and around about something you don't understand.
