Igor pisal:
This is not wrong, I said majority. Macedonian and Bulgarian are a minority of Slavic languages. East + West should outvote a small part of South Slavic languages.
===
you violate your own masturbastion rules!
English and Bulgarian have some things in common, mainly they dropped the cases. One of the reason of the popularity of English is that it is much more easy to learn ( id did not say easy to master) than German.
Li Ti znasx, zxe Slovio es tolk prostit Bulgario. I to dobrju!

Eugeniusx

A common Slavic language has to search for common denominators of ALL Slavic languages not for dividers.

And unambiguously the pan-slavic language grammar must be as easy as possible.

Otherwise we all nevertheless would be able to understand what is written or spoken but will not
be able to creat any sentence or even article without detailed learning such difficult grammar that would be mixed up with existing slavic grammars.

The easiest way is to learn different grammar not such that is very similar to now existing slavic natural grammars that would be messed each other and learners would use (or infiltrate) parts of their natural slavic grammars into such similar artificially created.

If any natural language in the world had to be changed or adapted to a majority (german, indonesian, malaysian,simplified chinese etc.) it has tendency to be simplified not to be the same or even more complicated than that it comes from.

If any natural language in the world had to be changed or adapted to a majority

What we make is a language for Slavs, and Slavs already speak Slavic languages, that's why we don't have to adapt anything to anybody.

Gabriel, you did not get the idea of Slovio!

English is one of the hardest European languages to learn.

English is very easy to learn but hard to master, as any "simplified" language. And English like Afrikaans are simplified, they throw away gender and cases.

And the anti-Slovio copy cats are sticking on it, not understanding the development of languages.

No, it is difficult to learn.

Take two arabs and have one learn Spanish and the other learn English. Both will struggle with prepositions - is the cat IN the picture or ON the picture? Both will struggle with all the verb tenses, because both Spanish and English have 16 each. But there are certain nuances that are very difficult to even explain in English.

Here's an example of the difficulties English learners face. In a forum I frequent the English board was marked "If you learn Russian you can get help here." Somehow, to an English speaker that says that one has to already have learned Russian to go to the English board. The meaning of that description was actually "If you are learning Russian you can get help here." This is a crucial change in meaning. Now if the description said "If you study Russian you can get help here" then all would be well. But curiously "If you are studying Russian you can get help here" would be incorrect since it would mean that you can only get help at the exact time when you have your Russian textbook open and you're studying from it.

This is not "mastering" English. These are basic grammatical concepts, simple present tense and present continuous tense. This is what you learn in the first year of studying English.

Both prepositions are logical : You are on / in the street / on/in the pisture, etc.

Because if you take it from position it can be in and on the same time.

Picture has a frame and if you are withing the frame you are IN but if you take it from positon of the whole picture you are also ON.

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Very good and logical expressing of prepositions has got Sloviensk :

PREPOZICII

pri, na, od - (from st./sb./ genitive), vo - (to be place inside of st/sb), cez, pod, nad, so – (together with ...) s, s – (by means of, by (instrumental),
do - (towards, to , dative), po, pred , za , mezo – (between, among), o, pro, vdo - leading towards inside of st./sb.), zvo(leading out from inside), dona - (leading onto st./sb.)
zo - (smerom od)

o pette c'as - at five o'clock
o pet c'asi - in five hours

Junak idet vdo les
Junak idet do les
Junak es vo les
Junak sede na stul
Junak sede dona stul
Skolar ide vdo skola
Skolar es vo skola
Skolar ide zo skola
Skolar ide do skola

Veter via od gora
Veter via do gora
Veter via zvo gora
Veter via na gora
Veter via nad gora
Veter via cez gora
Veter via mezo gori

The cat is on the picture actually means that there's a cat sitting on some picture. Cat is in the picture means there's a picture of a cat. I don't blame you for not understanding. English is hard.

English is hard (or better said tolerant) even for the English or Americans.

In the UK you can say : " A cat is in the street " or " A cat is on the street " (that is in american English). The same it is with "the picture".
Basically, it doesn't matter if you say it with ON or IN. Many words or even prepositions are easily understandable for English speaking countries from the meaning of the sentence itself and the people in these countries do not have any problems with it (or they might tolerate it).

The similar it is with the commas : (who was the cause of accident depends on the commas )


The driver, said the cyclist, was the cause of accident.

The drive said, the cyclist was the cause of accident.

Use more common Slavic forms of prepositions:

cez > prez
mezo > medz'u
pro > dl'a (for), za (because of)
zo > iz

Don't invent differences present in no Slavic language:

so – (together with ...) s, s – (by means of, by (instrumental)

I don't think any Slav will understand what "vdo", "zvo" or "dona" means unless they are told it is a compound preposition.

I have to agree with Eugeniusx. English is very easy to learn, but it's difficult to be mastered (on the other hand every language is difficult to be mastered). And the example with "If you are learning Russian..." makes no sense because it has no relation to English language itself (you can construct such ambiguous sentences in every language -- it's all about logic and not linguistics). By "learning a language" I mean being able to understand it, and being understood by its speakers -- you don't have to produce stylistically and logically flawless sentences for that. It's much easier to learn to speak English than any other European language. And you can't seriously compare 16 tenses of English (where the irregular verbs have three forms to learn), with 16 tenses of Spanish (where every irregular verb has two pages to learn).

I have to agree with Hellerick,
---
Let´s compare the three sister languages German, English and Afrikaans with Slovio by just looking at the most used word "to be" in the present tense:

German
1. person singular: bin
2. person singular: bist
3. person singular: ist
1. person plural: sind
2. person plural: seid
3. person plural: sind
---
English
1. person singular: am
2. person singular: are
3. person singular: is
1. person plural: are
2. person plural: are
3. person plural: are
---
Afrikaans
1. person singular: is
2. person singular: is
3. person singular: is
1. person plural: is
2. person plural: is
3. person plural: is
---
Slovio
1. person singular: es
2. person singular: es
3. person singular: es
1. person plural: es
2. person plural: es
3. person plural: es
---
Li razumisx, Igor?

which is to be used ? :


ja es idit
ti es idit
to es idit
on es idit
ona es idit
ono es idit
mi es idit
vi es idit
oni es idit


or

idijm
idijsx
idijt
idijt
idijt
idijt
idime
idite
idijut

and

imperative :

idij!
idijme!
idijte!

why not just IDIJ ! MI IDIJ ! VI IDIJ !

I don't think this is right :

ja es idit
ti es idit
to es idit
on es idit
ona es idit
ono es idit
mi es idit
vi es idit
oni es idit


It should be :

ja idit
ti idit
.
.
.
.

ES is not needed there.

Sloviensk is even more simple than Slovio in this matter :

Ja idi
Ti idi
Ten idi

Mi idi
Vi idi
Tie idi


(as we can see here the verb in conjugation "lost" its ending - infinitive is "idit")


Imprative is :

just ending - j (the same as in Slovio but without any sufixes)

Idij !
Mi idij !
Vi idij !

( of course, there must be personal pronoun before the verb)

This system is easier than that in any other artificialy created pan-slavic lang.

I am afraid that the adressees of your schematic language will not understand that "idi" is not a plural noun.

Ioannes pisal:
Sloviensk is even more simple than Slovio in this matter : Ja idi ... itd...
(as we can see here the verb in conjugation "lost" its ending - infinitive is "idit")
===
ne imasx pravda:

Basic Slovio is using only one form for the verb and for the infinitive, so yours is not simplier:

Ja idit, Ja bu idit, itd ...

And, as Gabriel mentioned, there would be no mix-up with the i-plural ending.

why not just IDIJ ! MI IDIJ ! VI IDIJ !
===
I have no problems with this, but I do prefer, n.pr. idijme.

Li razumisx, Igor?

I don't know what Igor should understand here. What you gave are examples of non-Slavic langauges, which is irrelevant, because what we are discussing here is an inter-Slavic language.

Slavic languages are related to other language groups like e.g. Germanic and Romance languages.
So you should have an idea of this groups to understand your own!

Look at the "to be" words in the three groups.

As soon as the developments trend are be reflected by Slavic languages, Slovianski will reflect them too. Bulgarian and Macedonian dropped cases, so Slovianski-P dropped them too, but no Slavic language dropped conjugation or gender.

Of course, the people who don't know the language say it's easy to learn. Polski jest bardzo łatwy. Nie uważajcie moi błedy gramatyczne.

.... I am afraid that the adressees of your schematic language will not understand that "idi" is not a plural noun....



Not every word ended up in -i has to be noun in plural (it's not said anywhere in Sloviensk grammar).

The same thing is that everybody has to learn in Slovianski P,N,S and find out if the word is a noun or verb. Without learning (there are no rules for determining if the word is a noun or verb in Slovianski but in Sloviensk there is clear that there is no noun "id" and in plural "idi").
So it is clear that the word "idi" is present tense of the verb "idit". On the other hand you cannot specify with nothing in Slovianski if the word is a noun or verb as you have no fixed rules for that purpose.

Neither did Slovio!

neither did Slovio drop conjugation and gender.

Neither Sloviensk has dropped gender. It was just regularised - it means the gender has its rational sense and is easily to remember for everyone (even for any foreigner).

The same matter with conjugation that HASN'T BEEN DROPPED. It was also just regularised with fixed and REGULAR grammar rules (contrary to irregularity of all forms of Slovienskis)

OK, guys, I will write it more in detail.

"Gender in Slavic languages" means "gender that 1) is not always obvious just from the last letter of the noun, 2) is agreed by the corresponding adjective and past tense verb, and 3) has nothing to do with sex". Neither Slovio or Sloviensk have such gender, that's why their grammars are not Slavic in this respect.

"Conjugation in Slavic languages" means "conjugation that makes verbs change 1) by person and number in the present tense and 2) by gender and number in the past tense". Sloviensk has no such conjugation, Slovio only partly and not mandatorily. That's why neither Sloviensk nor Slovio have (fully) Slavic grammar in this respect.

... That's why neither Sloviensk nor Slovio have (fully) Slavic grammar in this respect...

To keep " fully Slavic grammar in this respect means to use the grammar structer in non-changed state. That means furhter to difficult grammar as we know from real natural existing slavic languages. That further means very complicated languages to communicate each other with.
That further means no possibility for reduction of grammar mistakes and irregularities in such language. That further means not spreading this kind of language among other nations in the world and keeping it just as something extra just for slavic origin users.That furhter means using English language with further communication with foreigners even on the Slavic territories because such complicated language will not be easily remembered and learnt by any foreigner to use.

Is that realy what we want ?

That further means very complicated languages to communicate each other with.

For Slavs it will not be complicated, in Slovianski-P no Slav will encounter a feature whose principle they don't already know from their native language. Of course, they have to learn how exactly this principle is realised, just as they have to learn the vocabulary, they cannot just continue using their own one.

That further means no possibility for reduction of grammar mistakes and irregularities in such language.

No mistakes are present in the heaven, not here.

That further means not spreading this kind of language among other nations in the world and keeping it just as something extra just for slavic origin users.

Sloviensk, the language of Slavic imperialism!

That furhter means using English language with further communication with foreigners even on the Slavic territories because such complicated language will not be easily remembered and learnt by any foreigner to use.

Do foreigners adapt their language so that we could communicate more easily with them on their territories?

Gabriel Ti ne razumil idea Sloviom. Tvoi intencia kreatit novju Slavju jaizk es takak Ti hcesz nesit drevno do les!

Slovio is for all who are interested in Slavic languages, also for those who never have seen a Slavic grammar book.

Skazam vnov i vnov: Slovianski to konstrukcia dla mentalju masturbatori. Igor tezx milsit tak.

Here is a really easy language for grammarbookphobes, who should of course not expect that Slavs will understand them.

Lingua Slavica

- The digraphs cz and sz are used.
- Words that would the require the [z] sound are replaced, just as words with the [z'] sound of Slavic origin.
- Softening is written as i before vowels, otherwise omitted.
- The [j] sound is written as i.
- Letters q, w, x, y, and j (this one with its Anglo-French sound) may be used in words of foreign origin.

- Singular nouns end in -o.
- Plural nouns end in -i.
- Optional accusative: -om, -im.
- Verbal nouns end in -anio.

- Inhabitant names are the basic root + -o, e.g. polo, czeo.
- Country names: the root + -sko.
- Geographical adjectives: the root + -ske.

- Adjectives end in -e.
- Adjectives derived from nouns end in -ne.
- Adverbs are not differentiated from adjectives.

- Ordinal numerals: nomer + the basic numeral.

- Personal pronouns: mo (I), ni (we), vo (you sg.), vi (you pl.), lo (he, she, it), li (they). The reflexive pronoun is svo.
- Sex variants of third person pronouns are ilo, ili (male), elo, eli (female), olo, oli (inanimate).
- Possessive pronouns are formed by adding -e, for example moe (my).

- Verbs in the present tense end in -a.
- Infinitives may end in -at, but the present tense form is usually sufficient.
- Past tense is formed using the auxiliary word did.
- Future tense is formed using the auxiliary word bu.
- Passive participles end in -ane.
- Verbs are derived from nouns using the suffix -ov-.

- Prepositions are always vocalised.

OK Gabriel, try to write some article in "your simplified language" and we'll see if it is understandable for the other slavs without learning.

Slovio and Sloviensk is understandable for the other Slavs without learning - I mean by this just understandable - NOT speaking or writing - as it is none of these 3 languages.


Well, try something in Lingua Slavica .....

I won't try, an article in Lingua Slavica would not be understandable. Likewise, I have not yet seen an understandable article in Sloviensk. In Slovio and Slovianski I did. The more difficult the language is, the more understandable is. Lingua Slavica is as simple as possible, Slovianski is as understandable as possible. Anything in between is just some compromise that won't satisfy neither those who want a simple language nor those who want an understandable one.

Correction: ... that will satisfy ...

What is ununderstandable on this :


Rusia orbitil 3 sateliti na zdokonalenie od navigacia zo kosmos.

27-te december 2007, Teh'nika.

Rusia denes orbitil tri sateliti na zdokonalenie od navigacia sistem zo kosmos, ohlasil lokal funkcionari.

Sateliti bol na orbita transportite s pomoc raketa Proton-M, kor uspes'no startil zo kosmodrom Bajkonur vo Kazah'stan, raportil hovorca od Rusia kosmos agentura Alexander Vorobjov.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is although not about words (that could be taken from Slovio or Slovianski) but about the understandability of grammar structures of words and sentences.

Another text that pay attention to simplicity of grammar structure not vocabulary that can be taken either from Slovio or Slovianski or using synonyms.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Idea od mezonarod rec'
Mnohorec' bol obtiaz' prekaz'ka do mezonarod stiki a to uz' vo starovek, ked bol mezonarod stiki malo rozvinute, preto z'e len malo ludi vzaimo stretaval mezonarodo.
Ale i pro vo to c'as obmezite potrebi od mezonarod stiki bol uz'ite vo rozn historia dobi rozn rec'i kao sumersk, babilonsk, asirsk, egiptsk, kretsk a na teritorii dobite s Aleksander Vel, od Jadran more az' do C'ern more a India, greksk rec'. Es'te vic vel rozs'irenie dosiahnul latinsk kao central stat rec' od Roma imperium na vse dobite teritoriumi, a kao oficial rec' od zapad eklesia.
Uz'ivenie a rozs'irenie toh', abo ine rec' stalo zavisel na militar, politika, hospodar a tez' kultura nadvlada od toh' abo tamtoh' nacion. Po rozpad od Roma cisarstvo latina rec' tez' upadal s mes'enie so difere narod rec'i, a tak vzniknul italiask, franciask, spaniask, portugaliask a romaniask. Latina prestal bit stat rec', vs'ak i vo stredovek bol dalo uz'ite kao spol rec' od eklesia a aristokracia. Spol s to, latina aktil vo obdobie od renesancia vo veda a kultura.
Ale vo 17. storok uz' latina zac'al stratit toh' rarita a universenie. Specialno po Vestfal mier vo rok 1648 zac'ina ustupovat a vo urad a mezonarod vztahi, kultura a obh'od vimeni vo vse c'asti od svet zac'ina prevladat franciask, kor s'ak nekei ne dosiahnul univerenie od latina. Restrikcii s ohlad na uz'itie od franciask jasno znac'i, z'e franciask nekei ne dosiahnul oficial postavenie de iure od akceptite rec' od mezonarod stiki.
Po ente globa vojna Spojite kralstvo a Unite Stati od Amerika otrasil s privilegium pozicia od franciask a vse dals' snahi unovit francia rec' nadvlada, toh' rec' monopol, na stalo stroskotal. S c'o vic se uplatni idea od narod stat a narod zvrh'ovanost, s to vic od rec'i se objavi na poli od c'lovek aktenie. Organizacia od Unite Narodi vo to c'as uz'iva s'es oficial rec'i. UNESCO a in mezonarod institucii es'te vic. Vo startenie od to storok stac'il znat dva, abo tri zapadoeuropa rec'i pro izberenie od informacii o nai-nov rezultati od veda. Denes se to kalkuli so znanie od 12 rec'i kao s urgencia baza. Edukit se i s'tir, pet rec'i ne es dostatno. Malo ludi se zdari edukit vse vo tie rec'i perfekto, nai-frekvento es moz'no iba hrubo vedat, a to c'asto na ukor tieh' veda tvor robota. Mnogi se mieni, z'e narodi se nekei ne konsolidi na uz'itie od en narod rec' od mandate pro vse a tak es rezolucia moz' len s akceptenie od politika a narod neutral rec'.
Uz' vo 17. storoki filozofi kao Rene Descartes (1596 – 1650), Wilhelm Leibniz (1648 – 1716) a Jan Amos Komenski (1592 – 1671) zac'al zaoberat s otazka od en rec'. Vse konstatil, z'e es potreba mat spol rec' pro kontak mezo narodi a stanovil tie principi: en tip od deklinacia a konjugacia, neki vinimka a ne-regularenii, kreatenie od slovi s pomoc od sufiksi a prefiksi.
Ked vo 17. storoki to prestal od uz'itie od latina, vo mezonarod vzaimoaktenie nastal vakum, kor Komenski h'cel eliminit s kreatenie od nov rec', vic lah'k a suc kao bol sam latina a kor bi bol dvate rec' pro kien. To bol teno humanizmus, patriotizmus, demokratizmus a mier usilie, kor teno viedol do to, z'e ten startil venovat s mislenie od spol rec' pro globa a dizajnil kreatenie od planite rec', kor bi bol moz'no u-edukit bez strata od c'as a veci, kor bi bol medium do dosaz'enie od vic visok edukacia a proklamil princip, abi tie vse kultivil a prezervil tieh' mater rec'. Tom problem venoval Komenski dva spisi. „Via Lucis“ (Put od luc') a Panglottia (Univerzal rec'). I ked Komenski profesno imperil latina, vedel, z'e latina ne-stac'it pro mezonarod komunikacia a, z'e to es rec' ne-lah'k. Hovoril, z'e „ es urgent kreatit kisi spol rec' spol pro vse narodi...es urgent dat prednostnenie tom, abi bol kreatite kisi rec' spol pro vse globa. …Mi ne moz'et pro to u-robit nec' in, kao doporuc'it total nov rec'. Universal rec' musi berit zretel na vse narodi. Zo to pramenit u-zavrenie, z'e i s prec'enie od mnohokrat obstrukcii a h'aosi od vzaimo stik, kor formit zo mnohosti, problemi a ne-perfektivita od rec'i, ne-ostat efektiv medium, abi se kreatil nov rec', nad vse uz' znam: vic lah'k, vic perfekt. Mi tuz'it pro rec' racionsk, analogiask a harmoniask.“
Interesan publikacia Iskanie od perfekte rec' vo europa kultura u-skribil italia mislenec a skribar Umberto Eco, kor vo rok 2001 publikil publikstvo Lidove novini vo edicia Kreatenie od Europa. Zaoberá sa rôznymi tajnưmi jazykmi, tak aj my�lienkou pomocného medzinárodného jazyka a vyjadruje názor, �e keby politické rozhodnutie sprevádzala vhodne naplánovaná mediálna kampạ, mohol by sa zvolenư pomocnư medzinárodnư jazyk ve¾mi rưchlo presadi�."
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Idea od mezonarod rec'.

Mnohorec' bol obtiaz' prekaz'ka do mezonarod stiki a to uz' vo starovek, ked bol mezonarod stiki malo rozvinute, preto z'e len malo ludi vzaimo stretaval mezonarodo.
Ale i pro vo to c'as obmezite potrebi od mezonarod stiki bol uz'ite vo rozn historia dobi rozn rec'i kao sumersk, babilonsk, asirsk, egiptsk, kretsk a na teritorii dobite s Aleksander Vel, od Jadran more az' do C'ern more a India, greksk rec'. Es'te vic vel rozs'irenie dosiahnul latinsk kao central stat rec' od Roma imperium na vse dobite teritoriumi, a kao oficial rec' od zapad eklesia.
Uz'ivenie a rozs'irenie toh', abo ine rec' stalo zavisel na militar, politika, hospodar a tez' kultura nadvlada od toh' abo tamtoh' nacion. Po rozpad od Roma cisarstvo latina rec' tez' upadal s mes'enie so difere narod rec'i, a tak vzniknul italiask, franciask, spaniask, portugaliask a romaniask. Latina prestal bit stat rec', vs'ak i vo stredovek bol dalo uz'ite kao spol rec' od eklesia a aristokracia. Spol s to, latina aktil vo obdobie od renesancia vo veda a kultura.
Ale vo 17. storok uz' latina zac'al stratit toh' rarita a universenie. Specialno po Vestfal mier vo rok 1648 zac'ina ustupovat a vo urad a mezonarod vztahi, kultura a obh'od vimeni vo vse c'asti od svet zac'ina prevladat franciask, kor s'ak nekei ne dosiahnul univerenie od latina. Restrikcii s ohlad na uz'itie od franciask jasno znac'i, z'e franciask nekei ne dosiahnul oficial postavenie de iure od akceptite rec' od mezonarod stiki.
Po ente globa vojna Spojite kralstvo a Unite Stati od Amerika otrasil s privilegium pozicia od franciask a vse dals' snahi unovit francia rec' nadvlada, toh' rec' monopol, na stalo stroskotal. S c'o vic se uplatni idea od narod stat a narod zvrh'ovanost, s to vic od rec'i se objavi na poli od c'lovek aktenie. Organizacia od Unite Narodi vo to c'as uz'iva s'es oficial rec'i. UNESCO a in mezonarod institucii es'te vic. Vo startenie od to storok stac'il znat dva, abo tri zapadoeuropa rec'i pro izberenie od informacii o nai-nov rezultati od veda. Denes se to kalkuli so znanie od 12 rec'i kao s urgencia baza. Edukit se i s'tir, pet rec'i ne es dostatno. Malo ludi se zdari edukit vse vo tie rec'i perfekto, nai-frekvento es moz'no iba hrubo vedat, a to c'asto na ukor tieh' veda tvor robota. Mnogi se mieni, z'e narodi se nekei ne konsolidi na uz'itie od en narod rec' od mandate pro vse a tak es rezolucia moz' len s akceptenie od politika a narod neutral rec'.
Uz' vo 17. storoki filozofi kao Rene Descartes (1596 – 1650), Wilhelm Leibniz (1648 – 1716) a Jan Amos Komenski (1592 – 1671) zac'al zaoberat s otazka od en rec'. Vse konstatil, z'e es potreba mat spol rec' pro kontak mezo narodi a stanovil tie principi: en tip od deklinacia a konjugacia, neki vinimka a ne-regularenii, kreatenie od slovi s pomoc od sufiksi a prefiksi.
Ked vo 17. storoki to prestal od uz'itie od latina, vo mezonarod vzaimoaktenie nastal vakum, kor Komenski h'cel eliminit s kreatenie od nov rec', vic lah'k a suc kao bol sam latina a kor bi bol dvate rec' pro kien. To bol teno humanizmus, patriotizmus, demokratizmus a mier usilie, kor teno viedol do to, z'e ten startil venovat s mislenie od spol rec' pro globa a dizajnil kreatenie od planite rec', kor bi bol moz'no u-edukit bez strata od c'as a veci, kor bi bol medium do dosaz'enie od vic visok edukacia a proklamil princip, abi tie vse kultivil a prezervil tieh' mater rec'. Tom problem venoval Komenski dva spisi. „Via Lucis“ (Put od luc') a Panglottia (Univerzal rec'). I ked Komenski profesno imperil latina, vedel, z'e latina ne-stac'it pro mezonarod komunikacia a, z'e to es rec' ne-lah'k. Hovoril, z'e „ es urgent kreatit kisi spol rec' spol pro vse narodi...es urgent dat prednostnenie tom, abi bol kreatite kisi rec' spol pro vse globa. …Mi ne moz'et pro to u-robit nec' in, kao doporuc'it total nov rec'. Universal rec' musi berit zretel na vse narodi. Zo to pramenit u-zavrenie, z'e i s prec'enie od mnohokrat obstrukcii a h'aosi od vzaimo stik, kor formit zo mnohosti, problemi a ne-perfektivita od rec'i, ne-ostat efektiv medium, abi se kreatil nov rec', nad vse uz' znam: vic lah'k, vic perfekt. Mi tuz'it pro rec' racionsk, analogiask a harmoniask.“
Interesan publikacia Iskanie od perfekte rec' vo europa kultura u-skribil italia mislenec a skribar Umberto Eco, kor vo rok 2001 publikil publikstvo Lidove novini vo edicia Kreatenie od Europa. To manipuli so tajn rec‘i tez‘ i so idea od pomocite mezonarod rec‘ a viraz‘i omnenie, z’e ak bi politika res’enie idil so praviln planite media kampan, pomocite mezonarod rec‘ bi moz’el bit velm skor vipolnite.

Rusia orbitil 3 sateliti na zdokonalenie od navigacia zo kosmos.

Because orbitil is a masculine verb, Slavs will find a masculine noun that is realted to it. And they will find one: kosmos.

navigacia sistem

Navigation of a system?

uspes'no

I am glad that you use the natural Slavic palatalisation, uspeh > uspeszno.

Rusia kosmos agentura

Rusia kosmos? Russia of the space? So now we have two Russias, one in the Earth and another one in the space?

Kosmos agentura? The whole space belongs to some agency?

This is although not about words (that could be taken from Slovio or Slovianski) but about the understandability of grammar structures of words and sentences.

That's the problem too - reading Sloviensk text, I am disgusted anyway because I see so many Slovak-only words and Slovak idiomatic expressions that nobody but 15 million of west Slavs can understand them. Even Slovio seems to check at least two Slavic dictionaries (Russian and Slovak), but you seem to use only the one in your head. You may consider good vocabulary not so important, but you can't ignore it completely.

....

That further means no possibility for reduction of grammar mistakes and irregularities in such language.

No mistakes are present in the heaven, not here.

That further means not spreading this kind of language among other nations in the world and keeping it just as something extra just for slavic origin users.

Sloviensk, the language of Slavic imperialism!

That furhter means using English language with further communication with foreigners even on the Slavic territories because such complicated language will not be easily remembered and learnt by any foreigner to use.

Do foreigners adapt their language so that we could communicate more easily with them on their territories?

....


1. I wrote about R E D U C T I O N of grammar mistakes (NOT about the perfection or unmistakable of
the language (pay more attention what I am writing about).

2. It's not a "Slavic imperialism" - this idea can be born only in your blocked head !

3. No, the foreigner didn't adapt their langs to mke them easier for the other - THEY SIMPLIFIED THEIR LANGUAGES FOR EASIER COMMUNICATIONS AMONG THEMSELVES e.g. compare Old English with present day English, compare medieval German dialects with present day German grammar, compare e.g. Dutch with
Afrikaans, etc. They made / simplified their langs because it was more advantegeous for them to use them - NOT BECAUSE THEY WANT TO SIMPLIFY LEARNING OF THESE LANGS BY FOREIGNERS. And of course, it also came up from the fact that they didn't pay so much attention how to tell it but what to tell.

Knowing languages is not for boasting off that you are better than the others (as it done many times e.g in Czechia and Slovakia by ligvistic scholars) but for the reason to make easier mutual understanding among as more people as possible. BUT YOU HAVEN'T STILL UNDERSTOOD THIS SO FAR !

1. I wrote about R E D U C T I O N of grammar mistakes (NOT about the perfection or unmistakable of
the language (pay more attention what I am writing about).

However, even if somebody speaks your "simple language" perfectly according to your grammar, a natural Slavic ear will still hear many mistakes - i.e. the imposed unnatural endings and other features. On the contrary, if somebody speaks Slovianski with many mistakes, a natural Slavic ear will hear some mistakes too too - but at least the speaker has a chance to improve his knowledge of Slovianski grammar = of natural Slavic speach, which is not an option in a "simple language".

2. It's not a "Slavic imperialism" - this idea can be born only in your blocked head !

What's the use of crippling natural Slavic languages for foreigners, then? OK, my head is blocked, so please try to unblock it.

3. No, the foreigner didn't adapt their langs to mke them easier for the other - THEY SIMPLIFIED THEIR LANGUAGES FOR EASIER COMMUNICATIONS AMONG THEMSELVES e.g. compare Old English with present day English, compare medieval German dialects with present day German grammar, compare e.g. Dutch with
Afrikaans, etc.

Compare Old Church Slavonic with modern Bulgarian, you will be surprised!

Knowing languages is not for boasting off that you are better than the others (as it done many times e.g in Czechia and Slovakia by ligvistic scholars) but for the reason to make easier mutual understanding among as more people as possible. BUT YOU HAVEN'T STILL UNDERSTOOD THIS SO FAR !

The aim is to make easier mutual understanding among as many Slavs as possible - and Slavs will understand "krasive mesta" better than "krasiv mestoi".

However, even if somebody speaks your "simple language" perfectly according to your grammar, a natural Slavic ear will still hear many mistakes - i.e. the imposed unnatural endings and other features. On the contrary, if somebody speaks Slovianski with many mistakes, a natural Slavic ear will hear some mistakes too too - but at least the speaker has a chance to improve his knowledge of Slovianski grammar = of natural Slavic speach, which is not an option in a "simple language".

- it is the same as if you allege that some esperantist of a spanish, italian or german origin
would not be possible to cope with the esperanto or create sentences because esperanto contains
mostly words of romance and germanic origin.

............................................

What's the use of crippling natural Slavic languages for foreigners, then?

- it is the same as if you allege that Esperanto is "crippled romano-germanic language" accordance to its vocabulary.

..............................................


Compare Old Church Slavonic with modern Bulgarian, you will be surprised!

- the Bulgarians implanted some atributes of their orginal bulgar language that was of turkic origin
and that's why their nouns are just in basic form. Bulgarians are not of the slavic origin and that's why they just adopted the language of those who came to their territory or they came to territory that the slavic language(s) were spoken. They didn't participate on creating OChS as it was created from the protoslavic lang - not protobulgarian one.

...............................................

The aim is to make easier mutual understanding among as many Slavs as possible - and Slavs will understand "krasive mesta" better than "krasiv mestoi".

Hmmm, but you have to have not only "krasive mesta" but also "krasivoe mesto", krasivaja devus'ka, krasivij molodec, etc.
BTW it is not "krasiv mestoi" but if you want : krasiv grodi (as the town is "grod" not "mesto").

You have " krasive mesta". OK, but how do you have : nice girl, nice monuntains, nice sea, nice bird, nice grass,...... ???

I am of slavic origin but I am NOT able to predict how could be in Slovianski without learning these word compounds / connections.

And that's never ending problem I've been talking about since Slovianski of all its forms was crated.
No Slav is able to speak or write these adjectives with nouns in right way withou learning all of them separately.
On the other hand in Slovio it is very simple - just : -ju ending, and in Sloviensk just its basic form or -sk ending when standing alone.

Isn't it simplier to remember even for the Slavs ?

Well, I remember the Slovianski endings by comparing them to the Russian ones:

krasivoe -> krasivo in Slovianski
krasivye -> krasive in Slovianski

But actually the Slovianski grammar is not that difficult. The vast majority of it coincides with natural Slavic languages. If you take a Slovak text you only need to edit some endings to make it grammatically correct in Slovianski.

The #1 hardest thing to learn in ANY language is vocabulary.

OK iopq, but you cannot just compare everything with russian, you have to compare it with other slavic langs as well.

How can I (and others who do not handle russian language fluently) know that it is :

krasivo in Slovianski

Is there any grammatical rule for that ?


Is there fixed rule e.g. when there is a noun i neutrum there should be e.g. -o ending ?
and if the noun is e.g. in masculine there is e.g. -i ending , and -a ending when it is in
femininum gender ? I meant it, these endings in every case.


I doubt that there are such grammatical rules for that.

As your Slovianski is irregular there is hardly predict what ending there should be in various
formations of adjectives and nouns.

I think the principle of unambiguous grammar rules in Sloviensk there is no chance of making mistakes in word combinations or controversial debates if it is right or not.

The #1 hardest thing to learn in ANY language is vocabulary....


OK, I agree with you but you have to be wise up to the fact what makes vocabulary so difficult.

E.g. It is said that English has got the largest vocabulary in the world. Shit, it's not true.
If you have for just one meaning 2-3-4 words then it cannot be considered the largest vocabulary.

It's simple to create vocabulary of, let's say, 5 milion words in one language. (English is considered to have more than 800 000). Of course, when it has 2-3-4 words for JUST ONE MEANING.

And I ask you : "Is it needed ?". NO ! It only complicate the language - mainly for those who are foreigners.

The similar example it is with complicated word endings that are formating these basic words.

Why not use just simple prefixes and sufixes to create the same meaning as it would be created by complicated multi-formations.
Complicated grammars were created just by some individuals or small groups of people who thought that if they would have complicated grammars they would be more important or wise. But it's not true.
There is no rule that more complicated grammars make people or nations more wise.

What was done in slavic languages for the past 1000 years is just useless time to time addings
to the grammar by some individuals that probably thought that the langauge would be nicer or wiser or I don't know what else.

When there were done some "mistakes" in grammars in the past of our nations why should we go on with them further to the future ?

Not everything what is complicated is nice.

What was done in slavic languages for the past 1000 years is just useless time to time addings
to the grammar by some individuals that probably thought that the langauge would be nicer or wiser or I don't know what else.

When there were done some "mistakes" in grammars in the past of our nations why should we go on with them further to the future ?

Then, why do you call your language Slavic if you dislike Slavic grammar? Call it "simple language with Slavic vocabulary", but not "pan/inter/constructed-Slavic language".

Then, why do you call your language Slavic if you dislike Slavic grammar? Call it "simple language with Slavic vocabulary", but not "pan/inter/constructed-Slavic language".

- You still do not understand the principle.

Slavic language doesn't meant something that is complicated.

I doubt very much that first tribal protoslavic common language for all the slavic tribes was so complicated as present day slavic languages.

Present day slavic languages are complicated because their grammar structure resorces were greek and latin languages (maybe some others and complicated too).

Distinguishing e.g. gender comes from greek and latin that was also fundamental source for modern slavic languages.


Or do you think that only complicated grammar makes language slavic ?

Don't be funny.

Joannes:
E.g. It is said that English has got the largest vocabulary in the world. Shit, it's not true.
If you have for just one meaning 2-3-4 words then it cannot be considered the largest vocabulary.
===
I never heard of that. Could you please give us some proofs for your statement?

One of my friends that was studying English on University told me that and some resources proves that.

And it's understandable because English has got so many synonyms (sometimes more than 3-4 words of the same meanings) that it can be true. The other thing is that everyday life e.g. in America, Canada,Australia,New Zealand, South Africa and on British Isles brings into English some new expressions, words, idioms, phrases, etc.

Even Russians and Germans bring into their langs newly created words from English (especially now, in comuterized world).

No doubt that on such curcumstances English becomes the language with at least the larges vocabulary in the world.

Is there fixed rule e.g. when there is a noun i neutrum there should be e.g. -o ending ?
and if the noun is e.g. in masculine there is e.g. -i ending , and -a ending when it is in
femininum gender ? I meant it, these endings in every case.

Yes, these are exactly the fixed rules for adjective singular endings in Slovianski.

I think the principle of unambiguous grammar rules in Sloviensk there is no chance of making mistakes in word combinations or controversial debates if it is right or not.

As I write, speaking Sloviensk you can hardly make mistakes against its grammar, but you will make many mistakes against natural Slavic speech. "Krasiv mesto" is not a mistake in Sloviensk, but every Slav will hear it as a mistake. You have no chance not to make such mistake.

In Slovianski, it is possible to make a mistake (such as "krasiva mesto"), but at least you have a chance to learn the grammar and say correctly "krasivo mesto".

I am of slavic origin but I am NOT able to predict how could be in Slovianski without learning these word compounds / connections.

You might not be able to predict the endings, but you will understand them very well and as soon as you learn the rules, you will be able to remember them quite easily.

krasiva devczinka, krasive gori, krasivo more, krasiva ptica, krasiva trava

And that's never ending problem I've been talking about since Slovianski of all its forms was crated.
No Slav is able to speak or write these adjectives with nouns in right way withou learning all of them separately.

Not all of them, just all of the four endings: -i masculine singular, -a feminine singular, -o neuter singular, -e plural.

On the other hand in Slovio it is very simple - just : -ju ending, and in Sloviensk just its basic form or -sk ending when standing alone.

Isn't it simplier to remember even for the Slavs ?

Of course it's easier to remember for anybody. But shouldn't also the ease of understanding matter? Why should all Slavs use -ju, while somebody else might think that zero ending is better, somebody else might propose -e always ...? It's much more convincing to use what Slavs actually use than what somebody randomly invented.

Of course Esperanto is a crippled shit if you want to use it as a pan-Romance-Germanic language. Sloviensk has the same relation to Slavic languages.

Compare Old Church Slavonic with modern Bulgarian, you will be surprised!

- the Bulgarians implanted some atributes of their orginal bulgar language that was of turkic origin
and that's why their nouns are just in basic form. Bulgarians are not of the slavic origin and that's why they just adopted the language of those who came to their territory or they came to territory that the slavic language(s) were spoken. They didn't participate on creating OChS as it was created from the protoslavic lang - not protobulgarian one.

That was of course an extreme example, but even if you consider any Slavic langauge with cases, its current form is easier than its 1000 year old form, just as current German is easier than the one 1000 years old.

BTW it is not "krasiv mestoi" but if you want : krasiv grodi (as the town is "grod" not "mesto").

Yeah, I meant "krasive mesta" to mean "nice places".

The German language was created by Martin Luther about 500 years ago

Codification is not the beginning of a language. Martin Luther didn't create German out of a linguistic vacuum.

What do you mean with "codification"? Luther is the father of today´s Highland German. And this Highland German has no dialects. Lowland German Dialects(!) are more related to Dutch and English.

So the people who spoke Hochdeutsch suddently didn't exist before Martin Luther came along?

In terms of the vocabulary, you should just take your own language and you can make parallels to Slovianski.

So Slovak has brada, vrata, krava, etc. so to "learn" Slovianski words you just need to remember that in these cases Slovianski uses broda, vrota, krova
In Slovio there is no way to make the same kind of "rule" because it has broda, vrota, krava

so you have to learn the vowel each single case, while Slovianski vowels are always predictable
so if you didn't know how to say zdravy in Slovianski you can just guess zdrovi and you'll be correct
but say you looked at words like krava you would think the Slovio word is zdravju
but if you looked at dorog or storon, you'd think it's zdorovju
but only if you look at grod you'd find the correct form zdrovju

and it's not only ra/ro/oro
you can look at la/lo/olo or le/olo, or re/ere, or e/je/ja, or c/cx etc.
there is no pattern so it's impossible to remember

Igor:
So the people who spoke Hochdeutsch suddently didn't exist before Martin Luther came along?
===
What a Gabrielogik: the Anglo-Saxons were speaking English before they arrived in England!
---
Hochdeutsch was formed mainly by Luther out of different highland German dialects. Ands these dialects still do exist!
----
By the way the Anglo-Saxon dialects is still spoken in Germany

So Slovak has brada, vrata, krava, etc. so to "learn" Slovianski words you just need to remember that in these cases Slovianski uses broda, vrota, krova
In Slovio there is no way to make the same kind of "rule" because it has broda, vrota, krava

- aha, so e.g word like : zahrada (garden), ohrada (fence), mama, strava (food), lampa, lama

will be : zohrodo, ohrodo, momo, strovo, lompo, lomo ???

Don't be funny.

-i masculine singular, -a feminine singular, -o neuter singular, -e plural.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

so when you have noun plural -e how do you have e.g.

old men - is it "stare muzci" ?

-o neuter singular, eg. dobro dieta ?, pekno auto?, staro pero ?,

Remember one historical fact - no language created either artificially or reformed by some outstanding personality and taken from original national or state or country language(s) was made more complicated in grammar structure in its further development into the future as it was its original form. (I mean by this of course language, just one, not languages that were created from just one protolanguage).

Let's have a look at latin (very complicated) and its following romance languages - each of them is more simple than latin.

Let's have a look at anglo-saxon original langs - they were more complicated in grammar structures as it is now English.

I cannot imagine the protoslavic language that was forerunner of present day slavic languages.

I can't imagine (if we keep this rule of simplifying of original languages) how difficult it might have been (if even was - it's not proved).

Yes, these are the development trends. But the development never skips hundreds of years, unlike Slovio (which might be a good pan-Slavic language in the year 2500) or Sloviensk (which may reflect the actual development stage of Slavic languages it the year 3000).

- aha, so e.g word like : zahrada (garden), ohrada (fence), mama, strava (food), lampa, lama

will be : zohrodo, ohrodo, momo, strovo, lompo, lomo ???


That's not the rule I gave
zagroda, ogroda is correct
English has garden

robota is correct
English has orphan (original meaning servant)

etc. you have to know etymology of the words so words in other IE languages with -ar- or -or- in them will become -ra- in Slovak
these same words become -ro- in Slovianski
so KARL becomes krol' in Slovianski and kral' in Slovak

these are predictable patterns
they also apply to -al-/-ol in other languages and -el- which become -lo- and -le- respectively in Slovianski, and -la- and -le- in Slovak
so Proto-Germanic *meluk- is related to mleko in Slovianski

same way zloto is related to gold in English

I don't think that it's just a matter of "playing with syllables" whereby the first is consonant and the second vowel.

By this comparison you can find resemblances with any language in the world and it's not the rule.

Do you even read linguistic literature? Are you familiar with the concept of Proto-Indo-European language?

You probably don't know japanese language.

You'd better study also other languages not only proto-indoeuropean.

Have a look at hiragana and katakana which comprises two syllabic scripts.

その事ないぜ。日本語を沢山勉強しました。

Let me rewrite some of these rules for a Slovak who doesn't want to check a Slavic etymological dictionary, but can use a Russian, Ukrainan, Belarusian, or Polish one.

Where Slovak has -ra- and east Slavic has -oro- (or Polish has -ro-), Slovianski has -ro-: broda, vrota, krova, zdrovi, droga, strona.
Where Slovak has -la- and east Slavic has -olo- (or Polish has -lo-), Slovianski has -lo-: mlodi, zloto, krol', glova.
Where Slovak (as well as Polish) has -re-, but east Slavic has -ere-, Slovianski has -re-: pred, breg.

And the following rules, I hope, will make you stop writing would-be pan-Slavic texts with unpronouncable Slovak consonant clusters:

Where Slovak has a syllabic -r- and east Slavic has -or-, Slovianski has -or-: torg, gor(d)lo, korczma.
Where Slovak has a syllabic -r- and east Slavic has -er-, Slovianski has -er-: berlog, derz'at', mertvi, pervi, serp, verba, verh.
Where Slovak has a syllabic -l-, Slovianski has -ol-: dolgi, polk, solnce, z'olcz, polni, tolsti, volk, z'olti.

Where Slovak has .... ???

And Czech doesn't have it ???

More than 80% words you wrote and compared with slovak - the czechs have them as well the same.

Yes. The rules about -ra- and -la- can be used by Czechs, Slovaks and all south Slavs. The rule about -re- can be used by all west and south Slavs. The rules about -r- can be used by Czech, Slovaks and western south Slavs. The rule about -l- can also be used by Czechs (although Czech often has -lu- where Slovak has -l-).

And of course, these rules could be re-written for other Slavic points of view.