26i jul' 2008 - Nekol'ke tisjaczi od bosnijske Serbi uczastnili jednoczasinni marsz organizovani v celi serbski entitet v Bosnija i Hercegovina v subota dl'a podderz'ovanije od zaderz'ani Radovan Kardz'icz podozrevani za genocid. Mirne marszi i palenija od sveczi su organizovane od nacionalisticzna Serbska Demokraticzna Partija zaloz'ena od vojnni lider Karadz'icz. Okolo dva tisjaczi l'udi sobrali sja v Pale, jego tverdin'a v vremeno od bosnijska vojna (1992-1995), gde jego semja z'ije. Karadz'iczeva semja ne bila videna na marsz, ktori ostanovil sja pred cerkev, gde l'udi palili sveczi jak molitva za Karadz'icz. Hot'a partija hotela mesi za jeho zdrovije, czinovniki od pravoslavna cerkev odvergnuli to. Ale biskup Grigorije iz juz'na Hercegovina pozvolil svjaszczeniki, czobi oni slavili mesi za Karadz'icz v Trebine i ine grodi.
Karadz'icz i Mladicz, ktori jeszcze nebil zaderz'ani, ostavajut geroji dl'a mnoge nacionalisticzne Serbi pomimo tez'ke obvinenija protiv nim. Medz'unarodni Karni Tribunal dl'a Bivsza Jugoslavija obvinil Karadz'icz za vojnne zloczini i genocid pri konec od bosnijska vojna.
Re: Protestni marsz od bosnijske Serbi za Karadz'icz
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July 28 2008, 2:48 PM
As far as I know Russian is the only language that features representation of the Western European (or Greek) h as /g/ and therefore I don't think it's a wise idea to have geroj.
The word karni is difficult to understand, personally, I hear Spanish carne in it. In Russian we would have karatel'nyj here. On the other hand, do you really need this word here? Every tribunal is karni, it isn't? So, I guess the word has no use here. And what did you try to say anyway? Shouldn't it be something like Medz'unarodni Kriminalni Tribunal?
Re: Protestni marsz od bosnijske Serbi za Karadz'icz
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July 29 2008, 2:42 PM
It's really weird. "Герой" seems to be the only exception. In all the other cases we have <i>Х</i>: халюцинация, хармония, хигиена, химн, Холандия etc.
Anyway, I don't think we should base Slovianski's orthography on exceptions like that.
Re: Protestni marsz od bosnijske Serbi za Karadz'icz
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July 29 2008, 6:34 PM
bosnijske Serbi ? Why ?
It is nevertheless BOSNIA not BOSNI.
(and you are telling us that we are making crippled langs....)
What the hell is " jednoczasinni " ?
" entitet " is a slavic word ???????? (it seems like germano-italian)
... zaderz'ani Radovan Kardz'icz ... ??? - what the system of writing do you have ???
( what do you use for "softening" of consonants : letter -z, or apostrophe ' ?)
Or do you use them both ? It's nonsense.
tisjaczi l'udi - the same
Hot'a partija hotela mesi ....???? - what the hell is this ???? (I think it's understood ONLY BY YOU)
To tell you the truth Slovio is better understood by any Slav.
"One-hour" (adjective). Slovio would have dincxasju. There is of course hardly any good solution for the word "hour". I now used czasina, a zxrakula combination of czas and godina, but I don't think it is worse than Slovio's cxas which doesn't mean "hour" but "time" to Ukrainians, Belarusians, west Slavs and Slovenians.
(Please note Slovianski uses zxrakula words only if nearly all attested options are unacceptable. Unlike Slovio I don't use zxrakula words if over 200 million Slavs use the perfectly acceptable word a(j)kula and just some Slovak dislikes it.)
" entitet " is a slavic word ???????? (it seems like germano-italian)
Yes, it is taken from south Slavic entitet, Czech-Slovak entita, Polish encja. And, of course, every word comes from somewhere, this one from Latin entitas.
(Wikipedia: Republika Srpska jedan je od dva entiteta Bosne i Hercegovine. Drugi entitet je Federacija Bosne i Hercegovine.)
( what do you use for "softening" of consonants : letter -z, or apostrophe ' ?)
Or do you use them both ? It's nonsense.
Yeah, it's an illogical nonsense. But not less than your using of cks, sks, zks and pretending that softening in Slavic languages either doesn't exist or is equivalent to i following the corresponding hard consonant.
Hot'a partija hotela mesi ....???? - what the hell is this ???? (I think it's understood ONLY BY YOU)
Hoc parta hotel bozxsluzxbas in Slovio. Yes, bozxsluzba seems better understandable than mesa, but this Slovio word sacrifies accuracy: "religious service" doesn't mean the same thing as "mass". A religious service doesn't have to include the liturgy of the eucharist, a mass does.
Re: Protestni marsz od bosnijske Serbi za Karadz'icz
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July 30 2008, 9:24 AM
It may be just from you point of view - as it meet you criteria for grammar.
But if we take it from neutral point of view - this grammar structures are too difficult for even eny slav that would like to work with.
If there is any independent man of slavic origin and we would lay down some text in his natural language (mother tongue) to translate into slovianski and then in slovio, he surely would be able to translate this text easier and quicker into slovio than into slovianski.
And that's the main point of this discussion.
Re: Protestni marsz od bosnijske Serbi za Karadz'icz
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July 31 2008, 11:54 AM
If there is any independent man of slavic origin and we would lay down some text in his natural language (mother tongue) to translate into slovianski and then in slovio, he surely would be able to translate this text easier and quicker into slovio than into slovianski.
If he translated from English, it would surely be easier to use Slovio. But from a natural Slavic language, he would translate more easily into Slovianski - he wouldn't have to learn a completely new grammar of Slovio (absolute grammar), but just the differences between his native language and Slovianski (relative grammar). So he would just change some endings here and there, replace some endemic words with more common Slavic equivalents, and the translation would be finished.
Re: Protestni marsz od bosnijske Serbi za Karadz'icz
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July 29 2008, 8:28 PM
As far as I know Russian is the only language that features representation of the Western European (or Greek) h as /g/ and therefore I don't think it's a wise idea to have geroj.
In this case, the only difference from the normal reflection of [h] in Slavic languages is the fact that Bulgarian has also geroj besides normal heroj. And you are right this is not enough to change the normal Slovianski way of treating [h]. Let's have heroj.
The word karni is difficult to understand, personally, I hear Spanish carne in it. In Russian we would have karatel'nyj here. On the other hand, do you really need this word here? Every tribunal is karni, it isn't? So, I guess the word has no use here. And what did you try to say anyway? Shouldn't it be something like Medz'unarodni Kriminalni Tribunal?
You are right that "criminal" is probably superfluous here - but only east Slavic languages followed this logic, having just medz'unarodni tribunal. In Polish ICTY is also karni (kara = punishment in Polish), in Czech/Slovak trestni (trest = punishment), in Serbo-Croatian kriviczni (krivica = guilt, offence), in Bulgarian nakazatel'ni ("nakazvam" = to punish). So in most languages the adjective is derived from the word for "punishment". So, what should be the word for "punishment"? From Russian / south Slavic point of view, it would be natural to use nakazat' "to punish", hence nakazanije "punishment". But nakazat' means "to mandate, to command" in all Ukrainian / west Slavic languages. So I am afraid we have to use (po)karat' "to punish", hence Polish-Ukrainian kara "punishment": Medz'unarodni Karni Tribunal dl'a Bivsza Jugoslavija.
The suffix -tel'ni is, I am afraid, of no use in Slovianski. In Czech, for exemaple, it means -able.
Re: Protestni marsz od bosnijske Serbi za Karadz'icz
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July 30 2008, 3:03 PM
In Russian nakazat' can mean both "to punish" and "to command", but we have no confusion about them -- the former needs a noun in accusative case (whom to punish?) and the latter needs a noun in dative case (to give a command to whom?).
I still don't understand why you couldn't use kriminalni there.
About mesa. Maybe the word liturgija would do? The longer the words are the better they are understood. (BTW in this context expressions like bogosluz'enije or molitbena sluz'ba would be just fine.)
Re: Protestni marsz od bosnijske Serbi za Karadz'icz
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July 30 2008, 9:00 PM
In Russian nakazat' can mean both "to punish" and "to command", but we have no confusion about them -- the former needs a noun in accusative case (whom to punish?) and the latter needs a noun in dative case (to give a command to whom?).
But I am afraid this distinction is quite lost at the verbal noun. Example in Slovianski-N:
Although this example misuses declensional homonymity, I still don't think it's a good idea to have a verb whose verbal noun could never be used alone - we would always have to attach both the subject and the object to get the meaning.
I still don't understand why you couldn't use kriminalni there.
Beacuse it's not used in this name in any Slavic language.
About mesa. Maybe the word liturgija would do? The longer the words are the better they are understood. (BTW in this context expressions like bogosluz'enije or molitbena sluz'ba would be just fine.)
Yes. I wanted to show why the Slovianski text was worse understandable than the Slovio one, but of course, the difference between mesa, bogosluz'ba, liturgija etc. is worth nothing outside theological texts.
казати means "to tell" in Ukrainian
сказать means "to tell" in Russian
казвам means "I tell" in Bulgarian
кажува means "he tells" in Macedonian
kazati means "to tell" in Croatian