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Sloviensk - grammar

November 6 2008 at 8:24 AM
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I. 

 


    
This message has been edited by slovio on Feb 10, 2011 8:29 AM


 
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Eugneiusx

Kritika o Sloviensk

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November 7 2008, 1:14 PM 


 
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Hellerick

Re: Kritika o Sloviensk

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November 7 2008, 2:34 PM 

I. Most Russians don't know that "dz`" is a single sound. Perseption of "dz`" as two graphemes does not create any confusion. On the other hand I see nothing wrong with digraphs of course.

II. It's obvious who eats what. Situations that may cause confusion are pretty rare, and may be found in any language, no matter how free or strict their word order is.

 
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I.

Eugenisx mistakes.

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November 7 2008, 8:47 PM 


 
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I.

Additionally

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November 7 2008, 8:53 PM 

Slovo-sled es voln.
Kien fonem es spojite so en litera a kien litera reprezenti en fonem.
Ak vi slisi slovo vi moze toi skribit a ked vi toi vidi vi moze toi gvorit.
Tam ne egzisti neki stres na slog.


- ONE letter for ONE phoneme.

That's why DZ' cannot be a letter itself since it consists of 2 letters D+Z'. It is just a compound of 2 letters + apostrophe.
H' is the letter because it consists of JUST ONE LETTER + apostrophe that is not a letter.




 
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Eugeniusx

Eugeniusx´ Mistake?

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November 8 2008, 11:22 AM 

about I a/b
Ay Ioannes: if you quickly prounounce t + s you get c itd..
---
there is a difference between d-zx and dzx, the first represents two sounds and the latter only one: the dzx sound (English: g or j; Argentinian Spanish: y and ll)is produced by "speaking" zx but your tongues position is there where you would speak d.
---
about I c
Ti pisal: ...So, to make difference between H and German CH (that is not logical since if you quickly pronounce phonemes C + H you'll never get logical phoneme H')...

you are wrong here again, using German ch (c is here a [k]) and the English kh make sense.
To form the phoneme [x] your speaking tools are in the position of speaking a [k] but the air is realised to make an [h].
---
just for further thinking of the above I will compare the word "to write" in the three Germanic languages Afrikaans, Dutch and German:

skrjf (s-k = [s]+[k] two phonemes)
schrijven (s-ch = [s]+[x] two phonemes)
schreiben (sch = [?] one phoneme only)

additionally
ONE letter for ONE phoneme, does not work with the Latin letters. I do not know a single language which can be writing with this few letters ,even Latin itself not (cf. schola [skola]).



 
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I.

PHONEMES and LETTERS.

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November 8 2008, 1:18 PM 

about I a/b
Ay Ioannes: if you quickly prounounce t + s you get c itd..

--------------------------------

Yes Eugeniusx, it's true, but we have the letter C as one letter that is along also one phoneme.
But CH or KH is not one letter although they are one phoneme. The same it is with letter G that has 2 phonemes (in English) and letter J that is pronounced in some other langs as real J and not DZ'.
Whereby letter Y is our J but also our letter I as well.


Making other phonemes or compound-letter phonemes makes this more complicated (I mean combinations with Q,W,X etc.)

****************************************************************************************************

there is a difference between d-zx and dzx, the first represents two sounds and the latter only one: the dzx sound (English: g or j; Argentinian Spanish: y and ll)is produced by "speaking" zx but your tongues position is there where you would speak d.

-----------------------------------

OK, but there is no word that is pronounced separatelly as D-ZX, we have only words that are pronounced as DZX (dzxban, Ordzxonikidze, Dzxugasxvili, etc.)
- Let's not take into consideration any English or Argentinian Spanish as those langauge are absolutely not good for system ONE LETTER = ONE PHONEME.

***************************************************************************************************

about I c
Ti pisal: ...So, to make difference between H and German CH (that is not logical since if you quickly pronounce phonemes C + H you'll never get logical phoneme H')...

you are wrong here again, using German ch (c is here a [k]) and the English kh make sense.
To form the phoneme [x] your speaking tools are in the position of speaking a [k] but the air is realised to make an [h].

----------------------------------------

German's CH is not logical as letter C + H is never phoneme H'. The same it is with English KH (K + H)although English KH correspondent a bit better than German CH.

If you pronounce H' it is not the same as you pronounce CH or KH providing we have 2 phonemes / letter in each of it (C + H or K + H)
You can now object about using of DZ' but we (Slavs) don't have separate letter for DZ'. If there is some I would use it instead of DZ'.

****************************************************************************************************

skrjf (s-k = [s]+[k] two phonemes)
schrijven (s-ch = [s]+[x] two phonemes)
schreiben (sch = [?] one phoneme only)

---------------------------------------

SCH - there are 3 phonemes in it : S, C, H.

And because the latin font doesn't contain some letter = phoneme signs, that's why I used apostrophe that is neutral (it means apostrophe doesn't have any phoneme equivalent in any language in the world if we think the apostrophe as the sign in lating keyboard.

P.S.

For DZ' would be good to add some one letter/sing as this became the one phoneme in pronunciation like letter C instead of TS.



 
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Eugeniusx

Re: PHONEMES and LETTERS.

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November 8 2008, 4:45 PM 


 
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I.

Re: PHONEMES and LETTERS.

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November 8 2008, 6:41 PM 


 
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I.

Re: PHONEMES and LETTERS.

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November 8 2008, 8:20 PM 

c - as English "ts" in cats
cx - as English "ch" in cheese
g - as English "g" in gorilla, get, give
gx - as English "g" in general
h - depending on the speaker can be pronounced
either as English "h", Spanish "j", or German "h" / "ch".
j - as English "y" in yes, yeast
sx - as English "sh" in ship
wx - as English "shch" in wishchest
zx - as English "s" in usual

********************************************************************

- why do you have wx when you can have sxcx that is logical ?

If you have cx, sx, zx whereby letter x is for softenning of c,s,z, then how can you have gx ?

gx ? I have never seen or heard "soften" g.

 
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iopq

Re: PHONEMES and LETTERS.

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November 9 2008, 12:10 AM 

gx and wx are not used in Slovio, nor should they be

 
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I.

Re: PHONEMES and LETTERS.

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November 9 2008, 10:20 AM 

If not, why do they have them then on their Spelling and Alphabet web site ? :

http://www.slovio.com/spelling.html


 
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I.

Re: PHONEMES and LETTERS.

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November 9 2008, 11:13 AM 


 
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Eugeniusx

Re: PHONEMES and LETTERS.

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November 9 2008, 1:42 PM 

Ioannes pisal: Word order is really free. If you read it more careful you would find that if you want to replace the noun in a sentence you have to use passive voice and then it is without any problem.
a) Ioannes eda Igor BUT (you made mistake probably because you didn't read grammar carefully)
b) Igor es edate s Ioannes
===
On this note Ioannes, every language has a free word order. I am not talking about passive voice but about free word order:

Eugeniusx mlotit Ioannesum
Ioannesum Eugeniusx mlotit
Ioannesum mlotit Eugeniusx

---






 
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I.

Re: PHONEMES and LETTERS.

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November 9 2008, 7:52 PM 

Eugeniusx mlotit Ioannesum
Ioannesum Eugeniusx mlotit
Ioannesum mlotit Eugeniusx

---------------------------------


Eugenius' mloti Ioannes
Ioannes es mlotite s Eugenius'
S Ioannes Eugenius' mloti
S Ioannes mloti Eugenius'


_____________________________________


No problem. happy.gif

* I told you that Sloviensk has free word order.

 
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I.

Re: PHONEMES and LETTERS.

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November 9 2008, 8:24 PM 

And even S is more slavic than your -um. happy.gif

* " S " represents so called "7th declination case" or internationally : instrumental

 
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