More constructive approach would do well to us all...
February 12 2009 at 1:16 PM No score for this post
I hate Anonimniks
February 12 2009, 12:44 PM
First Now, now now... I just noticed what is wrong now! I hurry with help for all who didn't notice the change when editing typed message, as I did myself just before. Just now I noticed this when editing the previously typed message. The name given before I edited the message, dissapered. I typed it in again with the edited message version and it showed just fine. To have it show, when editing just check if your nick, or name, still shows there and type it in again if it doesn't. I'm sure there wil be a lot less "anonimnikif" if you aware about it. This is for all who got "anonimised" unintentionally as I got done so myself before)Second
It would be advisable to all who blindly criticise "Slovio" to go to www.slovio.com and see a little bit more abot its grammar. It isn't dead-set-in-stone and there is also proposition that all who do not like to use letter "s" for plural ending use just letter "i". There are soem ather propositions, too.
Third
I am a perfect speaker of Esperanto since 1973, so you can easy guess I know what I am talking very well here... In all these years I got well used to luck of any constructivity by "Pozal sie Boze" English speaking mass media journalists. They, damned dumb morons aren't capable of any objectivity or unbiast approach to anything. They write for money, and so they write what they were told to write by their masters... It is not at all in their masters' interests to support anything what could be in the least competitive to their own - narrow minded interests - and they are all pros. Do you know who is a "pro" in English, and what this word means means?!... This word has double meaning at all English speaking countries, and means just as much as a, whore, but it also is short for a, professional, in general sense. Bloody scumbags journos also notoriously hate anything that is against their own norrow minded personal interests, and those of their damned neo-feudal masters. Do not expect then liking of an idea of any planned language whatsoeve by that buch of damb fuckwits that they represent, none objectivity at all, ever. Do also never ever expect of them any deeper then the shallowest-possible understanding of any subject they pretend to understand, or even master somtime, they are simply incapable of that...
Re: More constructive approach would do well to us all...
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February 12 2009, 7:19 PM
perfect speaker of Esperanto since 1973
Whoah... You're a slow guy. I became acquainted with Esperanto in the kindergarten, and in the high school I already knew it's hopeless crap. It took half an hour to realize that Slovio is a dead end project.
And about anonimniks -- I hate them because when people don't sign their massages it's impossible to keep track of the discussion. When two anonimniks are arguing with each other and you can't understand who has posted what -- it drives me nuts. Discussion is impossible when you can't distinguish the discussing sides.
Re: More constructive approach would do well to us all...
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February 13 2009, 1:53 PM
If you really reckon that Slovio is amongst the dead projects, then what you do on this forum? Stir-up dissconsent and mess things up as much as you can? It looks so...
As I said, just a little more constructivity would do us all a lot of good, including you, Pal... Or, may be you are one of these bloody good for nothing journos, that I said clear what I think of? This could explain your attitude... Very constructive, very unbiased. We do indeed need one hell of a lot of such Hellerics at Slovio in general and at this forum in particular.
At Esperanto there is also growing number similar characters. They do all their best to screw-up all things others try their best to do well.
Although, despite all their afforts, just Google in Esperanto in your browser, you will see how dead it is...
I'm here for Slovio, mainly because I am Slav - as a Pole - and I therefore support all good Slavic initiatives and causes. This doesn't mean at all,though, that because of this I ought to hate Esperanto, or should act against it. The more that Esperanto is indeed very easy and I have a lot of very good friends all over thye world through its movement - even if it isn't any more so neutral as many its adherents would believe it. It is also quite popular, as you can find easy by yourself. Just type esperanto in google and see how many results you will get. Is it a "dead" project that is so visible?! One can do nothing good to ones cause by showing own incapability of subjective thinking and unbiased constructiveity in any group of people, no matter which and where...
Good Luck Helleric
Re: More constructive approach would do well to us all...
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February 14 2009, 5:58 AM
I haven't said "dead", I have said "dead end" -- it is a live linguistic project, but it won't ever be a live language. It is not used for communication -- people who speak Esperanto are doing it to speak in Esperanto, not to communicate. Esperanto is a club, not a language; on one hand this club has very many members, on the other hand it is a vulgar club. I would rather become a member of Interlingua or Quenya clubs -- because their members obviously are more intelligent and interesting.
I like languages like Interlingua and Lingua Franca Nova -- these languages are defined by their principles; in theory if you don't know something about them, you can reconstruct it just knowing what their principles are. They are so different from Esperanto and Slovio, which are based solely on their creators' dictatorial rule, and are doomed to remain monuments to their stubbornness and inconsistent decisions.
28 September 2006
Hellerick:
What for?
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Why learn Slovio?
1.Slovio is an opener (starting-tool) for non-Slavs who want / or have to learn one or more Slavic languages
2.Slovio is a gift for expatriated Slavs who live for long even for generations especially in Romance and Germanic speaking countries. And who, after looking at declination tables of any Slavic languages, give it up to be perfect in their own mother tongue.
3.Slovio is great to be used in foreign countries where Slavs of different nations meet each other. (Ioannes created with his Slavic friends an easy-to-learn-language for their communication in England, great!)
4.I use Slovio to contact different Slavic organisations. And they do understand me.
5.In Slavic forums like here I have almost no problem to communicate using Slovio.
6.i tak dalej
Re: More constructive approach would do well to us all...
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February 14 2009, 8:17 AM
Hi Hellerick.
You must have omited in purpose what I advised - type-in Esperanto.. After that try "Interligua' or the other, "Lingua Franka" in Google, and THEN then compare it all... As far as the "vulgarity" of Esperanto goes. Well Pal... To by able to judge anything at all one must know at least a little bit about the subject. Proving total ignorance, as far as this goes will help nobody, neither you, too. Facts speak otherwise, and they speak the best about themselves - nobody can do ever anythng about it. This is why facts are always so very enraging to anyone who wishies to push into others' throats some theories or projects that FACTS prove to be wrong or just some fony claims.
Besides, do you think that creator of Slovio project, Mark Hucko, would ask Esperantists for help in Slovio project if he believed them to be some vulgar bunch, with nothing to offer in the field of planned languages? You would be amazed at the amount of knowledge and expertise in many fields of science, and in particular humanist, great precentage of Esperantists accomodated and have present in their movement! Observing this forum some time I noticed that as far as vulgarity is concerned, you Helleric could have sometimes serve well as one of the best vulgarity examples, Pal. Slovio is Slavic planed language project and it must rely mainly on Slavic speakers as main and fundamental social portent, no matter what. This is Slovio's gratest strength. But you ought to know, too, that Esperanto's strength is also based mainly on speakers of Slavic languages - even if never planned so - and till now Slavs still form main, biggest and strongest column of that movement. Do you reckon, Helleric, Slavs are vulgar, then? After your posts I often got such impression, Mate. I can't help but wonder then, why bother about Slovio and Slavs, why not let them be as they are, in your own words, vulgar, primitive, ignorant Slavs. Lets learn some ILUMINATED GERMAN... We are the way we are and we wanna stay the way we are, Mate... Nobody can force you or anyone to learn or use Slovio or Slovianski, or Esperanto, or any other planned language, for that matter...
Re: More constructive approach would do well to us all...
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February 14 2009, 4:52 PM
Slovio is Slavic planed language project and it must rely mainly on Slavic speakers as main and fundamental social portent, no matter what. This is Slovio's gratest strength.
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So why do everybody shout so much that the language must be easy for non-Slavs??? Slovianski does rely on Slavic speakers much more.
Re: More constructive approach would do well to us all...
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February 14 2009, 5:33 PM
"Slovio is Slavic planed language project and it must rely mainly on Slavic speakers as main and fundamental social portent, no matter what. This is Slovio's gratest strength."
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Moraczewski and I disagree on this.
And that is good.
If both our viewpoints succeed, then Slovio will indeed succeed.
Re: More constructive approach would do well to us all...
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February 15 2009, 2:11 PM
Be assured, mate that not everybody wants to see Slovio as easy to all non-Slavic speakers. I myself am very definitely amongst those who don't care much about it. Just us much as much non-Slavic nationalities care about us, Slavs. What I care about is what is good to us, as Slavic languages speakers above all. If it will serve the rest of the non-Slavic world depends just of themselves, the non-Slavs' willing or not to use it and join us in the good work... Any way, DO NOT ILISION YOURSELVS, most of them would never EVER accept ANY WHATSOEVER SLAVIC LANGUAGE, natural or planned one, easy or not... Will this be planned language or not, it doesn't matter at all. Do not have any doubts as far as all gemanic nations withouth exception are concerned, and as the matter of fact, in particular and above al germanic nationalities believing themselves firmly to be unerring and born to rule over the rest of the world.
Any naiive thinking that mutual international language will ever ease dissagreements between nations is plain blindness to facts of life. just see about so many very bloody, brotherly national wars, etc, all over the world. For the best example right now, look at brotherly mutual murders between Jews and Arabs. They are as close cousins one to another as Slavic nations are omongst themselves. Or at least close to that. But, of course, you can see Jews wanting to teach the world how to live in peace! The same Germans! Well. As Slavs we sure are not saint amongst ourselves either, but we got still very long way to o in this matters to even get half way close to their records. So, why I should as Slav feel to be so generous to them, who never shown such cultural or civilisational generosity towards us?!
Slovio shall win only when it will start to relay mainly, AND ABOVE ALL on fellow Slavic languages speakers, or otherwise it will probably never fully succeed. Slavs will also NEVER ACCEPT so strikingly non-slavic gramatical endings like, for example, letter "s" for plural and other extremly unpleasurant to each Slavic ear criplings of good Slavic words. In particular where they are absolutely unnecesary. In this sence Slovianski feels a lot better. Slovio needs a bit of serious work and deffinite changes in direction to become sounding more natural to Slavs, to keep people in. I see value of lovio, but I am not at all some blind fallower of it for sure. I value good work of its author, but I think he ought to consider some very needed changes in it as soon as possible.
Our European Slavic-speakers are wont to using the "c" with breve/diacritic;
obviously, because (a) they are most familiar with this; and (b) their keyboards are programmed to easily produce this letter - along with the "other" similar diacritical letters.
Our American Non-Slavic-speakers use the "x" character for all purposes, because (a) their keyboards are not programmed to produce diacritical letters, (b) the "x" symbol is the SAME for all other diacritical letters, and, thus, no decision needs to be made weather to use cx or cz ... and then, what do to with "z"!?)
Our European Slavic-speakers are beginning to change over to the "x" protocol as well - because their American counterparts have asked them to do so because the diacritical letters will not appear on computers which are not programmed with automatic UniCode, requiring manual "refreshment" by the computer operator each page.
The number sequence of the above "options" have a purpose.
They represent a preference for suggested us, based upon the potential for (future) computer programming for purposes of translation, transliteration, etc.
We are not merely "tuning our violins" here.
We are working with this on a practical basis every day.
They represent a preference for suggested use, based upon the potential for (future) computer programming for purposes of translation, transliteration, etc.
Zbigniew wrote very interesting message but no one still answered it. And I find it worthful. I would even sign under each of his words! Where is the constructive approach?
Herllerick pisal:
... I became acquainted with Esperanto in the kindergarten, and in the high school I already knew it's hopeless crap. It took half an hour to realize that Slovio is a dead end project...
and:
... I like languages like Interlingua and Lingua Franca Nova -- these languages are defined by their principles; in theory if you don't know something about them, you can reconstruct it just knowing what their principles are...
===
It seams as if Hellerick is not able, for what ever reason, to understand Slovio.
Basic Slovio and Lingua Franca Nova are very very similar!
To understand the language is one thing and to learn it it's another. And it's much easier to learn logically built conlangs than non-logical. It's not about the grammar but about the dictionary, I think. And Slovio dictionary is large but lacks of logic.
Basic Slovio and Lingua Franca Nova are very very similar!
Lingua Franca Nova is a Romance pidgin. That's all. These two words completely define its vocabulary, grammar, spelling -- everything! All the features of LFN are tuned to serve this definition. Not to mention that it's the only language I know which sincerely attempts to be simple/easy, and does not confuse simplicity with strict schematism (while overwhelming majority of auxlangs have more complicated grammar than the core grammar of English).
What is definition of Slovio? Screenshot of Mr. Hucko's random ideas?
What is definition of Slovio? Screenshot of Mr. Hucko's random ideas?
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I think Slovio is not only random idea. I read section "Problemis" on the official page and saw that people were trying to apply the best logic when making the grammar. So, the grammar is pretty logical. But the dictionary was made, it seems, by many different people who didn't discuss any word between them.
The idea of the dictionary is as follows:
1) All Slovio words don't have to be of Slavic origin, but they must be the most widely understood words among Slavic-speakers.
2) The words should be melodious, easy to pronounce, easy to use in music or songs.
3) One should try to avoid such sounds as "sx, cx, zx," or use them as little as possible. These sounds tend to reduce the clarity and the comprehensibility of languages.
4) The spelling of words should be kept as simple as possible in order to minimize errors of writers in Slovio language.
5) To avoid confusion when to use "j" and when to use"i", in Slovio "j" is being used only at the beginning of the words, and in a few suffixes. Otherwise we use only "i". The letter "j" is not being used in the middle of a Slovio word; exception being imported non-Slovio words or names.
And that's all. So the dictionary creators were almost free to use any word. For me the process seems to have been that, for example: a Czech person invented word "vitr" from his native "viitr", a Pole invented "rodzin" from his "rodzina", a Russian invented "sobak"... Everyone used the spelling that HE thought to be "easy to pronounce, easy to use in music or songs", everyone choosed the word HE expected to be "the most widely understood words among Slavic-speakers"! No one took care how difficult will it be to learn this word mess.
Re: More constructive approach would do well to us all...
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February 20 2009, 6:52 AM
While browsing the web I have found this masterpiece by unknown hero from the Philippines:
hi ayla, sorry kung ngaun lng ulit ako
nagtesti sau... d ko alam kung sa icc k p
mgaaral... pero i know n puro d best ang
xperiens ko w/ u... kya nga, sayang lng
eh, d mo man lng ako binigyan ng
chance 2 prove my worth... but i'm
really happy of our situation between
me and u ryt now so hope we can get
more closer lng, ok n s kin... maging
close frends i mean... so d ko alam n
bday mo pla ngaun... cguro i2ng testi n
lng ang bday gift ko sau... kc d n tau
masyadong ngkkta... i wish u all good
health and keep on smiling and always b
friendly 2 others... HAPPY 20th
BIRTHDAY, my dearest friend AYLA!!!
gud luck and god bless... STAY COOL!!!
I love it! These are the beginnings of the future global language!
Re: More constructive approach would do well to us all...
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February 20 2009, 2:01 PM
Moraczewski pisal:
... No one took care how difficult will it be to learn this word mess...
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Any living language has a kind of "word mess" which not only reflects its history, but also its beauty. Do not try to create a Slavic "Newspeak"!
And if Czechs, Polish and Russian made Slovio, it will be quite natural that they mix their vocabulary together. That´s how languages are made since the existence of woman and man.
Words are not made by voting(an anti-Slovioist way of creating words).
Re: More constructive approach would do well to us all...
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February 20 2009, 8:01 PM
Yes, but natural languages have a history and their mix of words reflects that history. Slovio's history is Mark Hucko going through some dictionaries and writing down some words into the Slovio dictionary.
I can make a 40,000 word dictionary in a day with this method. But it would be a waste of time.
Re: More constructive approach would do well to us all...
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February 20 2009, 9:18 PM
And if Czechs, Polish and Russian made Slovio, it will be quite natural that they mix their vocabulary together. That´s how languages are made since the existence of woman and man.
Words are not made by voting(an anti-Slovioist way of creating words).
Do I understand it right?
vocabulary based on two or three languages spoken by the target group --> quite natural language
vocabulary based on all languages spoken by the target group --> Frankenstein misx-masx language nobody needs
vocabulary based on two or three languages spoken by the target group --> quite natural language
vocabulary based on all languages spoken by the target group --> Frankenstein misx-masx language nobody needs...
- if you isolated equally the group of people from all the slavic languages (some deserted island) and you'd come there after several years, there would be some kind of "common vocabulary" created so that those people could communicate each other. After some generation(s) the people wouldn't know what were their original languages like.
Certainly, the less languages put together the shorter time to do one common basic vocabulary.
In England, the Polish and Slovaks use such vocabulary. I heard those people talking and using the language of mixture of Polish and Slovak words.
I say this, natural creation of common vocabulary. There are no rules for chosing the words. They are used just by individual selection and mixing together.
Ja cxekal na to otvet. Faktuo, Angloio es Germanju-Romancju Pidgin (Creole). Dla to Angloio utratil gender i cases. To inju historju fakt zxe slovianski es nazad-orientilju.
No slovianski to rekreowanie kolo, dobrju dla nisxta i nikto.
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Li kak Slovianski es rekreovanie kola?
O ktori kolo? Slovio?
Ja to ne misxlit. Ja bi dumaval zxe Slovianski bu velcenju dla vse Slavje cxloveki ktori bu komunikat drug druga po slovjukai jazik von iz Anglio - s bolsxom znacxeniom i jasnostom.
SLOVIO is and will continue to be the base Slavic con-language - regardless of whether it includes non-slavic-based words or not.
Among the hoi polloi of non-Slavic speakers who become engaged in one form or another with communication within "Slavia," SLOVIO will be the primary medium - if only because it has the most pervasive availability.
Working with non-Slavic speakers has shown this to be the case (my observation).
But SLOVIO will be "morphed" among Slavic-speakers - especially between themselves - Southern, Western and Eastern Slavic Speakers, who otherwise would communicate in English because their own "pidgin" cannot be understood "inter-pidginly."
Eugeniusx's SLOVIO is a clear example of this - where he has devised his own "more Slavic" idiosyncratic nuance of text, spelling and grammar. The same is true for Moraczewski, IOPQ, Ioannes, Svoboda, Hellerick and me.
But for business communication, there needs to be some order, some rules. I believe that SLOVIOSKI is one effort to create and meet two different needs. We'll see how it works out.
Ja mislim czo dlja biznes-dela bude to dobrej - jesli ne-Slavjanske biznesmeni budu upotrebjat najvisze Slavjansko-naturalisticzni jazik. Togda slavjanske so-trudniki budut zadovolene i spokojene, i komunikacija bude legka, a biznes bude imat' uspeh. V inih slovah, ne-Slavjane pokazut svojo uvazenje jesli viuczut vec'ej mnogo Slavjanskih slov i gramaticznih elementov. Tak czo Slovioski ima buducze.
Hey, Ali-Pasha, get away from the slavic forum, you turkic mohamedan fucker !
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Hahaha!!! Someone doesn't know short Russian names.
The same thing happened to me when I saw on a chat a guy named "Banjo" - I thought he is American, but then I understood that he is from former Jugoslavia.
This is for all who got "anonimised" unintentionally as I got done so myself before)
