February 25 2009 at 11:37 PM No score for this post
Here is my story about hiking in Moscow Region in summer 2000 with tourist-scout club "Strannik". I am translating from Russian. Please, read and tell me if you understand or don't understand the text! Waiting for comments.
[i]Ja ne imam tocznih danih o vremeni, kogda mi szli v to pesze putovanje, ktoro bilo dlja nas trenirovim, uczebnim. To bilo okolo junja 2000 goda. Putovanje bilo 6 dnjov dlino. Ja imal 13 let togda.
Od poczatka v pohod sobirali sja okolo 12 czlovekov, ale v posledni moment nektore povedali po telefonu, zse ne budut jehat. Kak rezultat, mi ne ne imali vremeni sdelat novo izczislenje kolko brat jedi, i vzjali visze mnogo, czem potrebno. Sredi teh, kto ne poehal, bil moj brat Aleksej, ktori predviszil jehat v ekskursiju so svoim szkolnim klassom. Iz togo sledovalo, zse on i druge ne budut uczastvovat v velikom putovanje na Rossijski Kavkaz, ale izjavilo sja, zse Aleksej ne mnogo zsalel.
[b]Pervi den.[/b]
Mi naznaczili streczu na stancii metro «Komsomolskaja», gde razmesczeni tri (iz devjat) zselezniczni nadrazsi Moskvi «Leningradski», «Jaroslavski» i «Kazanski», i mi budemo jehat s «Kazanskogo». Moja mama soprovodzsala menja. Ale v naznaczeno vremja na stancii mi ne uvideli nikogo! Mi pobezsali na nadrazsi, na nastupiszcze, ale i tam nikogo ne bilo! Ja trevozsil sja, s uzsasom mislil, kak zse oni si tam bez menja budut. I neoczekano ja pripomnil, zse na poslednem zbore kluba rukovoditel Nina kazala v konce: «A, stretim sja v devjat czasov», ale ja prosto ne pridal znaczenie tutim slovam i priehal k osmi czasam. Sczastlivo, zse priehal rano, ale ne pozdno, i uspeszno stretil vseh.
Jehali vse 7 czlovekov: rukovoditel Nina, Ljoha D., Sasza D., Ira K., Kunja, Ljoha Lukasz, i ja. Pred pohodom na jednom zbore mi reszili naznaczit dolzsnosti kadzsogo uczastnika. Napriklad, Ljoha D. bil otvetni za orudovanje («snarjazsenec»*), Sasza bil ekolog, Ira bila lekarka, a ja bil naznaczeni dragcenikom. Kadzsi czlovek v gruppe dolzsen imat svoju nejaku povinost. Uczastniki, ne imacze nijakoj spolecznoj raboti, sut prezravo imenovanii «pasazsiri».
Mi ehali elektriczkoju** v grad Voskresensk. V puti Nina rozdala nam paketi s suhoplodami i halvoju, povedav zse to je «zanaczka», zapas, cztob edat esli zahoczemo. Pozdnej mi zrozumeli, zse to je vmesto obeda. Nina polagala, zse trikratno kormenje ne je vigodno, za to czo treba mnogo nest s soboju edi, i mnogo vremeni tratit na prigotovenje. Tak ona i zamenila obed smesom iz suhoplodov i halvi ili gozinaki***.
Elektriczkoju mi doehali do stanici «Moskvoreckaja» i totczas, nemedleno, vistupili v put. Pogoda bila solneczna, ale jeszcze ne gorjaczo. Vmeste s nami v tot pohod szla druga gruppa, ob 15 czlovek, pod rukovodstvom Andreja Ekimova. To bil visoki tjazski czlovek s usami i nevelikoj bradoj. Ja toczno ne znam, jak on zvjazan s naszim klubom, on dobro znami Ninoju. V jego gruppe ljudi bili mnogo starsze nas. Na pervom postoe mi poczali poznavat jedin drugogo. Oni bili silne i iskuszene v putovanjah. Ja ne znam, za czo oni szli s nami v tot pohod. Tozse, javno, imali trenirovanje pred vistupjenjem v gori. [/i]
* snarjazsenec, [i]Russian[/i] - "eqiupment-man", a man who is looking after the equipment of the group
elektriczka, [i]Russian[/i] - suburban and local passenger electrical trainset in Russia
*** halva - Middle-Eastern sweet confection based on semolina or tahini,
gozinaki - a traditional Georgian confection made of caramelized nuts, usually walnuts, fried in honey.
I learnt Russian so I understand more or less this article but my daughter that has never learnt Russian, understands just 5-7% of it.
Russian language is JUST one of several Slavic languages and if you think that if somebody that was born e.g. in Poland, Czechia, Slovenia, Crna Gora, that he/she should understand Russian, then you are very mistaken.
*** Hellerick wrote:
"It's too Russian. The dictionary is too Russian, too many Russian idioms... "
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You are right. I am Russian and I stop using Russian words and idioms, especially because our Slovianski vocabulary is little and the idioms are not set. Sometimes I don't know what exact word or construction to use, and I have nothing but my own intuition that leads me in Russian way...
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*** Hellerick wrote:
"E.g. when a Russian wants to speak more 'Slavic' he uses archaic forms like "grad" -- but "grad" is not more Slavic, it's South Slavic."
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Yes, Slovianski has "grod", you can say that is Polish.
I use grad not because it's archaic or OCS but because I find it more common: Czech, Slovak, South Slavic and Russian OCS borrowings.
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*** Hellerick wrote:
"Czem" is dative case of the word for "what". If you need a word for "than" you should use "nezs" or "nezseli".
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I thought about that, you are right. I shall change.
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*** Hellerick wrote:
"Anyway, nice try. But it will be really cool if a non-Russian will check it."
It was already chec by non-russian. I am Polish and I wrote message in Polish what I think of of. I understood every single word of it. And I see in it just as much of Russian as there is of Polish. It is Interslavic indeed.
I think it would do well to have comments from Southern Slavic speakers, whose constructions I have found are often very unique to Eastern and Western Slavic languages - especially to Polish and Russian.
(same issue with ATLANTIS article and use of infinitive verb versus "ktori" + past tense, where Croatian speaker (& Czech too!) suggested translations without "ktori")
I personally am too "prejudiced" by English, Polish and Russian to give an independent, "clean" commentary (although I will happily give you personal, prejudiced commentary by separate email later ).
It was already chec by non-russian. I am Polish and I wrote message in Polish what I think of of. I understood every single word of it. And I see in it just as much of Russian as there is of Polish. It is Interslavic indeed.
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Yes, thank you! I saw your post, but didn't understand the exact meaning of "prawie ze do slowa", sorry...
I'll continue the translation and wait for more comments!
K zaczinu pohoda sobirali sja okolo 12 czlovekov, toliko v posledni czas nekotoryje povjedali nam po telefonu, czto ne budut se s nami jehati.
Na izhode, my imjeli vremja sdelati sosczitati koliko brati v pohod jedy, i poczinili brati mnogo stoliko koliko vzdumalosja, a togo bylo boleje czem potrebno. Sredi teh, kto ne pojehal, byl i moj bratr Dobromir, kotorj predviszil jidti v pohod so svoimi odnogodkami iz ucziliszczja.
Te kto poszli s nim, v sem vilikom putovanje ne byst mesto jim, jeli dalecze oni ne poszli.
"K zaczinu pohoda sobirali sja okolo 12 czlovekov, toliko v posledni czas nekotoryje povjedali nam po telefonu, czto ne budut se s nami jehati.
Na izhode, my imjeli vremja sdelati sosczitati koliko brati v pohod jedy, i poczinili brati mnogo stoliko koliko vzdumalosja, a togo bylo boleje czem potrebno. Sredi teh, kto ne pojehal, byl i moj bratr Dobromir, kotorj predviszil jidti v pohod so svoimi odnogodkami iz ucziliszczja.
Te kto poszli s nim, v sem vilikom putovanje ne byst mesto jim, jeli dalecze oni ne poszli."
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Polish "prawie ze do slowa" means in English "almost word to the word" in the meaning, almost every single word. Besides. It reads also a lot easier than the eye hurting "x" combination. This is one of the reasons I'm inclining quite a bittowards Slovianski-N. The "x" convention is totally unnatural in all Slav languages uzing Latin alphabet, and In Cyrylica, the Russian one, it has value of letteh "h", if I don't err? Although, in Latin script version of any Slavic language it just hurts to see it everuy so often. It just sticks out like a sower tooth
Zbigniew
You wrote:
"The "x" convention is totally unnatural in all Slav languages uzing Latin alphabet, and In Cyrylica, the Russian one, it has value of letteh "h", if I don't err? Although, in Latin script version of any Slavic language it just hurts to see it everuy so often. It just sticks out like a sower tooth"
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"x" has been a challenge for most Slavic speakers.
When I first found SLOVIO my immediate reaction was to change the "x" to the Polish "z" - except that did not work when added to the letter "z" = "zz". So then what? Some have chosen to use the combination "zs" just for "z" and keep "cz" and "sz".
So, we then have some people writing with cz, sx and zs, some writing with zz, some with just single letter, others writing with diacritics that cannot print in most forums without changing to Unicode-8 or Central European Encoding itd.
Finally, this is just one set of variables. Add to them the other spelling variables and it becomes a mess for computer programs.
In other thread - SLOVIANSKI - Spelling Rules, Slavenica - who offers an online transliteration program at http://slavenica.com posted his concern about all these "too many variants," writing:
"Please make up your mind to some standard, then it can be supported. Right now you have 6 variants, that is simply too many."
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So, I just "close my eyes" and write with "x" - BECAUSE everyone can immediately understand what sound is displayed in Latin bukvi.
The other variants of sound - the palatizations of letters - I simply omit. So I do NOT write vidit' or med' versus med. But then I am writing in SLOVIO/SLOVIOSKI style and not SLOVIANSKI. If the medium allows for it, I will use diacritics, because almost everyone (Slavic-Speakers) prefers diacritical bukvi over "zx" or "zs" or "zz" itd.
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Moraczewski
Sorry - this is OFFTOPIC.
S
I would love to be able to write in Cyrillic again, but apparently something happened to these forums (network54 or whatever) and it doesn't display some of the letters.
I have found that these various forums also CHANGE from time to time.
This network54 forum simply will not allow certain diacritical characters to be posted - regardless of whether I am configured for UNICODE-8, CYRILLIC, CENTRAL EUROPEAN or PASHA MOHAMMEDIC.
Other blogs sometimes require me to configure to UNICODE-8 to see Cyrillic bukvi, but other times I must re-configure to Cyrillic ISO or KOI8-R, then back to UNICODE.
And it does not matter if I am using my "Western" style computer or my "Cyrillic" configured keyboard!
Tak, razumijm pocxemu nekto bi mozxli mislit zxe egzisti konspiracia proti nasx upotrebits Slavja azbukva!
Argument that because in one or two cases word can become a little bit double meaning is far to simple and has absolutely no value. Just look to othe rlanguages and you will see the ir peculiarities. No mentioning English here:) But did you meet as many people as I did - amongst them Polish too, of course - who in their arse kissing frenzy haste to assure everyone everywhere that English is "so easy, so beautyful". I don't have to mention here their own level of spoken or written English - in itself making you think what the hell language that person tries to use. Often it is such gobblegook its hard to understand anyting at al! Yakkkkkk!... Makes me seek to the stomak! So is with many other things, and just too often you meet this sort of people who try "shine" their "wisdom" all around, having in tru fact none...
Occasional similarities of words, calles synonimes, or the same meaning words of complitely different aspect (homonies) are also frequent in all languages, and even planned languages strougle to create them, as they are indeed needed in translations of many texts. They are not easy, but one has to learn themn to be profficient in any language.
If anybody ever thought that it is possible to make language that could be so easy everyone could just look at it and know it please go to the "Course in Gods Powers" never possible, but why nott. Some dreamers may be wish to play God?
I think, some reason and inteligent evaluation must be applied.
"All Slavic alphabets are non-Slavic. So I can´t find any logical reason for hating "zx", but loving the stupid and confusing "zs".
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Mark my words:
At bottom line, it will be the computers that prevail.
And the "X" Factor is the only logical combination letter that is easily readable and workable for all computers.
Do I like the "x" in its appearance? No.
I would much rather use a "z" - at least for "cz" and "sz".
The "Z" for "zz" does not work; nor does "zs" ITD.
So, I will "get over it."
(if I can write and post successfully with diacritics, I will. Otherwise, it is a foolish struggle on my part to try to insert a square peg in a round hole) Ne?
).
