I inadvertently left my new model RWS 34 cocked over night. It is about a month old. I was really upset. But after firing the rifle, it seems almost to be more smooth and easier to cock. the velocities actually seem to be greater. I do not have a meter to prove this, but they seem to zip faster. I then shot a couple of gamo raftors and the noise is definitely louder going into the same target that I shot the same pellet before. I only left if cocked for about 8 hours. Did I damage the gun when I did this? It is still under warranty, should I take it back?
Dave! Easier to cock means the spring has lost some of its properties and power. A slower traveling pellet will always sound louder when hitting the target and even knock it down if it's something free standing. Faster pellets go through it much faster and don't seem to phase the target much.
I left my 350 cocked yesterday for about 25min. after I shot a squirrel raiding the bird feeder. I had reloaded it thinking I might get the 2nd squirrel it was hanging out with. I then went back inside and put the rifle down. I had forgotten it but when I remembered 20-30min. later I was freaking out. I quickly ran and shot it into the ground out back. Luckily I think I cought it in time, but I 'm not sure. Seems to take as much strength to cock it as before but a 50 or 100fps loss would probably not be easy to detect. There is a statement in the last page of the RWS registration/warranty card on the back at the bottom, that says not to leave it cocked for "more than a few minutes" or it will weaken the mainspring. I plan on getting a chrono now to see if the velocities are still acceptable.
I think you have no choice but to return it or send it to Umarex. It's pretty new so they may just fix it, or they might tell you that the spring is a maintenance item or that you caused the damage and charge you for it, but I 'd definitely try to get another new one from the retailer. You got nothing to lose. Good luck and let us know how you make out.
PS.
Why can't they make 800+fps .22's with CO2? No cocking, less parts to worry about and disposable bottles. We can go to the moon but can't make such an airgun? My guess is it's probably not safe which is why they have the expensive PCP's where you have to carry a tank or a pump over your shoulder when walking around in the woods, like 9lbs of gun wasn't enough to carry around..
The only way to tell is to check the velocity. You can't judge based on sound or perception or how you think it felt before. When a spring takes a 'set' it does weaken as the stored energy in the spring, is now less. Most of the time 20 - 30 minutes will not cause harm. 8 hours though might, but perhaps not enough to worry about.
Harry - as to CO2 guns, there are theoretical limits with CO2 and 800 fps in .22 is about it, but that's assuming perfect temperatures (hot). Most hot-rodded CO2 rifles put out a consistent 700 fps. More than enough to dispatch the kind of game you're taking about with a properly placed shot. I have an older Crosman 114 that does a bit over 700, but I modded it some. I also have a stock Crosman 180 that is doing way over 600 that might reach 700 with some tweaking. The only problem with modified guns is that they do use a lot of gas to push those kind of pressures. Another down side is that as temps drop, so does power. Once you get below 65 or so, it drops off pretty fast. You do not want to hunt with CO2 in a cold climate. That is why a lot of guys are running high pressure air in their CO2 guns. You've got to regulate it though as it enters the gun or it would cause serious damage and potential injuries. It can be done though. Check out a Umarex 850 if you think you might be interested in CO2. There is a mod page for them on Network 54 forums.
"but I'll be needin' that gun, fer squirrels and such."
As other posters indicated it's best to compare your origonal "as-new" chrony spec's (if ya have em) against current "after mistake" ones. The presumed "feel" you're experiencing could be misleading, don't rely on it, OK?
The good news is that todays metal alloys are far more resistant to fatigue from being left cocked for long periods than the mainsprings from days of old... NOT to suggest that one should make a habit of it, but you're probablly safe. The 34 is a really stout rifle and many have withstood serious abuses and came back kickin! Likely your rifle is the same.
Aftermarket mainsprings such as JM's are REALLY tough and made of top quality wire. These are even more resistant to shooter abuses and/or mistakes.
Far as "tough" mainsprings go, my "stock" .22 cal. HyScore 801 still has it's origonal mainspring and still shoots like new! Proper care and lubrication makes em last a long, long, long, time.
Experiments have been done and they showed that you can leave a quality springer cocked for a long time without noticable energy loss. Some of these springers were left cocked for up to a month with very little loss of energy. Something else that was noticed is that sometimes there was a loss of energy but after a half dozen shots or so the energy level returns to normal. Airgun hunters in the UK walk around with their springers cocked for very long periods between shots as to not be caught unloaded when a shot presents itself. I would not worry to much.
i fired a single beemans cleaning pellet thru my 350 magnum in .22 not realizing that there wasn't going to be enough pressure (your supposed to fire 3 at a time) do you think this will damage the spring/piston as well? It sounded like a real forearm it was so loud!
I woke up this morning and starting shooting and the gun seemed as hard to cock as before. I really cannot tell any difference and seem to think most of this was in my head. Any way I read a chart last night on the net (I am trying to find it this morning) of energy loss on modern day break barrels left cocked. The study starts off with (1) week about 80 hours and then goes up to (1) year. They then tested the rifles with different pellets.
The conclusion showed very little loss after just one week (80hrs). Maybe 10' fps It really was insignificant. A year later was like 25 percent loss. I doubt my 8 hours or so really amount to much. I really think if I had not known I had done this, I would not be able to tell. Anyway I will be getting a complete tune in maybe a year. If I can find that chart again I will post it.
Here is the chart showing loss of energy due to leaving a moder break barrel rife cocked.
Note: the gun left uncocked for a week was for 168 hours not 80.
After reviewing this chart I will actually hunt with the gun cocked more ofter and just get a new tune up each year or so.
www.gatewaytoairguns.com/library/Keeping%20a%20Springer%20Cocked.htm year or so.
I was really worried there for a minute (ok maybe an hour) for your gun Dave! The 1 week tests do not show much power loss at all but the author did comment that leaving it uncocked definitely shortens the life and performance of the spring.
The same principle goes with springs in your car or race springs as in my case. I race my (other) car on the track on weekends and also do a lot of autocross racing. I have noticed that when I get lazy and leave all the tires, jack, and tools in the back of the car (Integra hatchback w/seats down) during the week for several weeks, which leaves the springs more compressed than usual, that the springs start losing their properties. They compress easier which means they lost some of their strength and they adversely affect handling. And these are really good quality (Eibach) 450 to 750lb/in. springs I am talking about, not your regular OEM/factory springs which are usually 120 - 200lbs/in.
BTW, anyone know of a good chrono to buy, or are they all the same or is there a particular brand most people prefer? Digital vs. analog? I saw a couple for ~$75. Is that good ones go for?
I've had my Chrony for 12 years and it works well. Most people I know also seem to have some model of Chrony some just seem to have more features. I knew one fellow who had an older Ohler which was pretty good but a little more pricey and not as compact. I've seen a few other brands but never got to try or compare them.
For safety reasons it is never a good idea to leave a cocked airgun laying around unattended.
This will not, however, result in damage or fatigue to springs on modern, well made airguns like RWS and Beeman. Tom Gaylord did a test in the Airgun Letter years ago where, basically, there was no statistical change afer a day, several days, a week and a month. No problem.
I doubt that this would be true with some of the cheap, low grade imports from the orient.
Thank you Frank, for your advice. While I also did the research and saw the Gaylord results, and talking to many owners of air guns. It became obvious that leaving a new rifle cocked for approximately 8 hours may indeed help the rifle to fire stronger and smoother. Many old air gunners actually did this this on purpose in the past with very positive results. The theory later was later questioned , but the Gaylord study proved otherwise.
Now, I may not be a chemist and tell you the properties of the metal in the spring of a air gun, but I can tell you I have coached long distance runners for 25 years. And I know a little bit about muscle tissue and the properties of the muscle that make the leg move faster and smoother. The law of relativity will be the same in muscle ans well as metal. The power of the leg muscle will not move force as well if it is not stretched. Especially if it is not compressed and stretched for new runners or runners of experience that have not stretched their legs after as little as 24 hours. I left the gun cocked for about 8 hours, and the rifle at first felt like it was hitting harder and easier to cock. I then left the rife untouched for 72 hours to let the alloys of the metal to go back into place via "memory". I then cocked the rifle and it was as hard as every, maybe a little smoother . I now swear that the gun fired harder. The same tin can jumped higher, the same target with dirt in the background produced a bigger cloud of dust. Muscle must be stretched and held for a certain amount of time to receive the full spring value and force. The very worst thing for a competitive runner is to have a muscle that has not been stretched, and stretched on a continual basis. The muscle must be compressed and exercised and re stretched to fulfill the mechanism of rebound and power.
