I want to get either a RWS 350 or 460, but I see them on the
Diana-airguns.com page as
DIANA
Mayer & Grammelspacher
GmbH & Co.KG

Then I see them as Umarex RWS on some websites.

Are all the dealers talking about the same gun and manufacturer?

I've always shot firearms and I'm new at airgunning but can see how
quickly it hooks you.

I think I lean towards the fixed barrel 460 since I have a
Gamo SSS in .177 and another breakbarrel .177. Any suggestions as to which gun and which caliber?

Thanks

RWS /Umarex do not manufacture anything they are the US importers of Diana
Mayer and Grammelspacher Rastatt Germany , and some other companies .
They do however rebadge the guns to carry their name ( thats what may create some confusion ) .

In answering your question about gun reccomendations ..it really depends ...
on your intended use for the gun and at what distance .

Both the 350 and the 460 are good choices , the 350 being a more powerful gun
and has more of a track record .
BTW when checking for power ... dont look at RWS numbers .. this is where the real confusion is !! their numbers are rediculously over inflated ..and this causes some shooters to be really dissapointed to an extent they have returned guns . The Diana web site gives real world numbers for their guns useing light wieght pellets ..(you can assume Hobbies ) this is to put their guns on a level playing field with some other manufacturers that use even lighter pellets !

so they say the 350 does 1250fps in .177 and 860 fps in .,22

the 460 is 720 in .22 and 1150 in .177 That puts it in the same league as the
Diana 36 /34 ect rather than the 350 or even the 48/52/54 .

If you are looking for a gun that will be a predominantly a target gun the fixed barrel 460 will be a good choice in .177 .
It will be a very smooth shooter and accurate enough for some serious target shooting .It will have lots of punch for some occasional pesting , or even an hunt .

if you want a hunting gun , the 350 magnum in .22 is hard to beat , the gun is very accurate and very powerful . It is quicker to load in the field as a break barrel , and can reach out for a long distance and still have a lot of power . It delivers ~21-23fpe at the muzzle , and useing a good pellet with a high BC it will still have ~14 fpe at 50 yds ! thats about the same as a 34 at the muzzle .This is not a good target /plinking gun ..as after 50 or so shots you will have had your workout for the day . the cocking is not bad considering its brute force , at 48 lbs its one of the lowest in the supermagnum arena vis a vis 60# for the Gamo Hrricane /extreeme hunter 1250 .
But still its not a gun you would like to cock 500 times a day .

the final descision will depend on your needs and desires , and with A Diana
you cannot go wrong .


Frank

Charlie, I will agree with Frank that all Diana's are great rifes. I own a 34 and love this rifle. In my quest to move up to a 22. cal. I wanted something more powerful than the velocities of the 34 rated as a 'Medium" powered break barrel rife. I have been researching and researching for every bit of information I could get. Here is what I came up with. First of all the 460 is new on the market. The dealers are representing this rifle to the the "most powerful" rifle by Diana. All the numbers by the dealers for all rifles are very misleading. I cannot agree with Frank that the Diana 34 is in the same class as the 460 which even the Diana website declares the 460 as a magnum air rifle. Do NOT trust the Diana website. It is a joke. First of all I think it is a typo error that the 460 is only rated at 720 fps. If you then go on to the on line manual it states a completely different number(780). However they are much more in line than the dealers. If you click on the model 48 for info the 460 pops up. You go into other groups on the site hit English and it goes right into German. There is very little info on their website and it is really poorly done. Diana makes great rifles, but there web site sucks. Secondly the two rifles could not be more different. The 34 is a break barrel and the 460 is a under lever fixed barrel rifle. I think if you read the reviews of people that own a 350 and a 460 you will find them very comparable in power but handling is a little different. Both are very close in the power range. The most detailed analysis of Velocity test that I have personally seen are from a site called "straight shooters". They have done intensive velocity test to include Muzzle energy which is extremely important for hunting and "Power". Here are the results of their test for the two rifles:

460 in 22.cal Velocity 691-895 muzzle energy 20.2-23 fpe weight 8.2

350 in 22. cal Velocity 660-870 muzzle energy 20-24 fpe weight 8.3

34 in 22.cal Velocity 593-791 muzzle energy 10-14 fpe weight 7.5

As you can see the muzzle energy is very significant, even double. The 350 and the 460 are very close and the 34 is not in the same league at all. It is not a magnum rifle.
I might make a suggestion that you see the review on this blog of 350 vs 460. It has owners of both these fine rifles that have experienced a lot of shooting in them.
Your question is the same one I have been wrestling with for awhile now. I decided to go with the 460. Sorta of like choosing between a blond and a redhead, when comparing the difference between the 350 and the 460.(The 48 and 52 are a couple of damn good looking brunettes) The 460 is very pricey and I almost wish I had ordered the 48. which less money but also in the same power class.
When I have shot about a thousand pellets in the 460 I can let you know how I compare the two. I think other guys with a whole lot more experience than I do will be glad to come forward to help you with your decision as well. All of this said, the model 34 in 22. cal might be a good rifle for your particular needs. Small game at close range for instance. And a whole lot less expensive. BB Pelliteer did a great review of this rifle in the synthetic stock.

Good Luck with your hunt for a new rifle.

Charlie, I carelessly just now saw that you were talking about the 177. cal. Only. However the results of the 34 and the 350 and the 48 are posted on "Straight shooters". Again, the 460 in 22.cal would also be comparable to the both the 350 and the 48 in 177.
Here is the site address for Staight Shooters.


http://www.straightshooters.com/rws/r350.html

Thanks guys, Wow! It's like having one's private research facility.

Dave, I'm interested 177s and/or 22s . I do mostly target shooting and
at rats from my deck(range ~50-75ft). Don't think I'll ever really go hunting
any more. I live on the beach and the rental houses have mountains of garbage which brings the rats. We haven't gotten the condos yet.

From what I've read, it seems the fixed barrel 460 might hold an edge in accuracy over the 350--any comments on that say at 25yds ?

How does the Gamo H Extreme compare to the RWS 350 and 460--in workmanship and power/accuracy.

I guess I'm asking which do you think would start having mechanical problems first? Gamo or RWS?

Thanks again for your comments fellows.

Charlie

Charlie, there are a lot of guy's on this forum that have a lot more knowledge than I do and I am sure they can help you. But the 34 is such a nice rifle, why not just keep that. It sounds like a perfect fit to me for your needs.?

For rats and such a .177 would do fine and at great (airgun) distances such as 50+yds with a good scope. But if all your other guns are .177 then you might want a .22 in your collection. It's up to you. The .177 will take most animals including squirrel & rabbit. With the .22 you can take down racoons, groundhogs, etc.

All Diana rifles shoot very accurately and are some of the finest airguns in the world. I tend to agree with Dave and I think the specs are a typo on the Diana web site for the 460 but all Dave has to do is buy a chrony and tell us what he 's getting (right Dave?)

For rats all you really need is 4-5 ft-lbs of Energy (FPE). The 48 is your best choice out of the 3 Diana Magnums. It doesn't hit or recoil quite as hard as the 350, not sure about the 460 but it's not far in power than the other 2. The 48 still packs 5-10 FPE at 50yds depending what pellets you use and that's very respectable. The 350 has a couple of ft-lbs more, because it carries 30-60fps more velocity with most pellets. See link below.

http://www.straightshooters.com/navagationpages/ourtakselections.html

This above is a collection of performance stats on some of the most popular airgun rifles today, done by 1 on-line vendor and are actually pretty close to what owners are reporting with their own chronometers. The Theoben Eliminator and the Webley Patriot (not tested on that link) are the only 2 Magnum rifles that a little more powerful out of the factory than the RWS 350 (or 460) but cost hundreds $$ more and take a lot of muscle to cock the barrel. They are also hunting rifles like the 350.
The 350 does NOT require 48lbs of force to cock the barrel as Frank said. It only takes 36lbs and this # is accurately reflected in almost every web site I have seen. I own a 350 .22 and I know it's not even close to 40lbs. The Diana 48 may actually require more force to break the barrel than the 350. I have seen 39lbs at some vendors' sites.

To be honest, if all you 're going to do is target shooting and hit a few rats, you might want to look at the new RWS 850 CO2 Magnum in .177. This gun is recoiless and lighter than the Diana sping piston rifles. For target shooting long periods of time, you want a lighter gun that doesn't make you tired and is easy to handle. The 850 takes the large 88gram CO2 bottle (about $6 each or $5 if you buy bulk) and it's good up to 400 shots with a muzzle velocity of ~750fps in .177. No cocking to worry about, and no extensive lube jobs & maintenance like the break-barrel spring piston rifles require. This is not a Diana rifle but is made by Hammerli and marketed by RWS.

As for me I have larger animals to deal with than rats. If they made a 750-800fps CO2 rifle in .22 I 'd grab it in a second. Until that time comes I 'm content with the powerful Diana springers and their pain in the neck dual-recoil action that can eat scopes and mounts for breakfast without proper tuning (extra expense). Good luck with your decision.

Charlie I am a newbie myself. I purchased a 34 in 177.cal about 2 months ago. My new 460 in 22. cal will be arriving today. I guess this pretty much answers how I feel.

You can check out my video review of the 850 AirMagnum here:

http://www.airgunreporter.com/


It's a LOT of fun to shoot--accurate and powerful.

Great review, can't wait for the 460 review. By the way, how loud is that rifle?

TKS