I fired a few 10-shot groups with different pellets of almost all the ones I regularly use, but not all. Crow Magnum & Trophy will have to wait until the next round. I had a hard time retrieving all the individual shot #'s. It only showed me the max., min. and deviation, etc. Must me something I 'm doing.. I think also got some other pellets mixed up with a couple of the groups which messed up my deviation and avg. velocity #'s. It wasn't clear to me when it jumped to the next 10-shot group (#2, 3, 4, etc.) so I could switch pellets and I kind of lost count with the # of shots of each pellet. Here 's basically what I got in the order I tested them.
- CP 14.3gr (24FPE)
Started off with 870.4fps and then it gradually went down to 853.4 (slowest)! What could be causing that? I wrote a few of them down: FIRST shot 870.6 fps, then 867.8, 864.3, 859.9, 854.2 etc. Is it the spring not being consistent, a seal leak? I shot about 2 groups - 20shots with the CP's, and after the first few, they were all between mid 850's and 861fps, most of them in the high 850's (857-860). I did not get any more mid-high 860's or a single 870 after the first 3-4 shots.
The rest of the pellets I tested were much more consistent with very small deviations. I was shooting 10-11" away from the Chrony. Should I get closer? back up? What is the norm? Am I supposed to wait a certain period between shots (I think that's for the CO2 or pump guys)?
- Beeman FTS 14.6gr (24.3FPE)
Max. 867.3, min. 858.6fps
- RWS Superdome 14.5gr (23.6 FPE)
Max. 856.5, min. 848.9fps
- JSB Exact Jumbo 15.8gr (22.5FPE)
Max. 802.1, min. 794.5
I was very happy with this because SS #'s were pretty low
- Beeman Kodiak 21.1gr (20.5FPE)
Max. 661.7, min. 653.2
I was disappointed with these #'s but it matched SS#'s. Gaylord got 690's when he tested a 350 back in '06. I was hoping to get the same performance but maybe after a lube tune and debur? The Kodiaks were actually the most consistent shooting constantly at 658-659fps.
2nd most consistent were the JSB Exacts with more than half the shots between 799 and 801fps.
Next time around I 'm going to shoot the Kodiaks first to see if I get an extra 10-15fps when the spring has been resting overnight, like it seemed to do with the CP's that I shot first. Is that a normal occurance? I guess the spring needs some time to go back to its original shape and properties, and shoots strong at first, but then because it does not return to its original shape for a while, shoots a little weaker?
In general, there were no surprises with the chrony tests, and I was pleased to see the JSB Exact Jumbos perform relatively well because this is a pellet with a very high ballistic coefficient like the CP & Kodiak which I 'll be using to hunt once my Kodiak tin is empty (pretty close to it). All these #'s match other chrony #'s I 've seen of the 350 in other forums except maybe the CP's. A couple of 350 owners have reported 890fps with CP's but I believe theirs are tuned and not sure to what I extend. It looks like I 'll never see those kind of #'s with the CP's and my 350, but overall I 'm happy with the performance and there is no indication that the gun is "weak" or has issues, at least in my opinion.
Sounds like your 350 is performing well.As for the early shots that clock high from a cold gun, my 34's do exactly the same thing Harry.I do not believe that you have any seal problems.I have some theories as to why this occurs, but no conclusive evidence, so I am reluctant to post them.This in mind, when I shoot over the chrony,I shoot 10 shot strings and discard the highest and lowest speeds and average the other 8 shots.This eliminates the extremes on either end and gives a truer reading of the guns performance.From the numbers you have posted and others I have read, yours are right in the ballpark.I would not be disappointed with the kodiak speeds,660 with a 21gr. pellet will knock the snot out of any pest or small game species you are likely to shoot,and if you are not satisfied with that I would use the 15.9 gr. JSB Exact.Those pellets have some of the lowest weight deviations and highest ballistic coefficient ratings of any ammo out there(my home tuned Diana 48 shoots these at an average speed of 768.74 fps).
Yes I 'm very happy with the JSB Exacts' performance. I bought a couple of 500 tins and had planned on replacing the Kodiaks with them. The Kodiaks are a bit pricey and you only get 200 in a tin.
I know very well the Kodiak's capabilities. I have taken a large groundhog at 32yds with a Kodiak. He dropped where he stood after the Kodiak decimated his skull and went through it. I 've also taken a couple of squirrels using the Kodiaks. Was disappointed a couple of weeks ago though, when I shot a crow at about 25yds with a Kodiak, but that was a shot placement issue since I don't have a scope on the 350 and I was shooting free hand. The crow dropped from the tree like a sack of potatoes, but then got up and started running dragging one of its wings wide open on the ground. She ran too fast for me to pursue with 9" of snow on my lawn, and made it accross the street to the neighbor's house where I couldn't shoot it. She stopped there and made some "craah's" to let me know that I lost, and then hopped away into the woods behind the neighbor's house. Luckily the neighbors were all at work that day and did see that embarassing moment in my life It helps working from home sometimes so you can do some shooting while the neighbors are away
Those Exact jumbo's are the ticket out of my 48.The kodiaks are too heavy to use regularly in the 48 as I believe they will shorten spring life.I don't own a 350, but have seen a number of posts or articles with 350 chrony numbers so I hope you don't mind my chiming in.BTW,my condolences on your 350 hitting the ice-that stinks.A stock refinish would save you a few bucks .As an item of interest and reference,my steroid/billet modified Benjamin 342 shoots kodiaks at 692.2 fps,but it takes 14 pumps to achieve that power!
Thank you verry much for the info, maby I dont have to buy my own crony because Im about 200-300 rounds behind you.CPs are my goto, I have 1200 rounds at home and just ordered 2 more boxes and a tin of JSB Exact Jumbos. Thank you again for the post
I just realized something.. The pellets that fit "loosely" were pretty good performers like the JSB Exacts (didn't expect them to - just got them in today with the Chrony), Superdomes and Beeman FTS. The CP's fit snug and the Kodiaks you have to push relatively hard to get them past the breech seal. I was surprised that the 15.8gr Exacts have identical fitment as the Superdomes which also performed relatively well. The CP's did ok I guess, but average compared to other 350 owners' chrony reports of 860 to 890fps. I think it's because they fit a little too tight on my gun. I would think it's the opposite, that tighter fit means no air escaping, thus higher velocity #'s but I don't know now. Maybe that snug fit means it takes more force to propel it through the bore. The slightly heavier Superdomes and FTS performed just as well or better than CP which is slightly lighter. Could be way off here but that's where my brain is leaning to right this moment Of course the Superdomes and FTS don't have the ballistic coefficient of the CP, Exact & Kodiak so I never use them for hunting, just target shooting. They lose steam quicker at 25yds and beyond, but they still perform better than more than half the .22 pellets out there.
Phil, what die# are your CP's and what month were they manufactured? Are they the new #8? I have the old #7. It's at the bottom of the box with the date stamped as well. I would really like a fellow 350 owner to get a chrony so we can compare. I think my gun used to shoot faster when it was newer. I think all that recoil reduction and smoothness I 'm experiencing now, also means less power. I 'm saying this because for the last 200 shots or so, my 350 seems to shoot 1/2" lower at 15yds than it did before. That either means power loss (gun has settled, broken in, etc.), or the barrel has somehow shifted. I dropped the rifle a few days ago outside while I was taking a picture of it and a squirrel I had taken so that could be it too. I rested the gun on a tree as soon as I finished taking a few pics, like 3-4min. later, the gun just went down and hit the ice hard, breaking it. It now has little scratches and indentations all along the forearm! I hate that. It looks like it's several years old if you turn it around and look at the bottom of the stock. Time to get another gun that looks newer
Harry, the first thing I read when I was ordering my new Chrony, were the words from Tom Gaylord,
"What NOT to do with a chronograph!
Some shooters get a chronograph and start chrongraphing all their airguns immediately. People who were once happy shooters now stare at the chronograph screen trying to decide how they should feel about the numbers. A chronograph is to airgunners what a fish scale is to fishermen, and some folks are better off not knowing!
Dang, Harry, you already want to get rid of your 350. over your some chrony numbers. You dropped her and now you are ready for a new gun? Would you shoot your dog, just because he got his ear cut up by a old boar coon? Your 350 has been your friend. You have had a lot of enjoyment from her. Now you want to get a new gun? I tell you what Harry, give me a fair price and I will give her a new home. If the price is fair I will send you a check tomorrow.
By the way, I did a recent post where I had contacted Crosman about the bad Bin #7. The bin always returns to #7. There is no bad bin? The number 7# die is always the same die., and has been for years. I shot my 460. with #7 die and they shot better than any pellet.
Relax Harry, You have a geat gun. You have not even had it tuned yet. Don't get rid of a old friend over a couple of numbers.
They were manufactured on Sep 28,07 on the boxs that I have now and I will let you now when the others come in from Airgunwarehouse. I was just kiddn about not getting a crony maby in a couple of weeks I will let you now when I get it . I will most likeley have questions on how to set it up.I was looking at the F-1 that I can get for around 70$ + ship.
Harry, I find your post on chrony numbers very interesting. I think I have had my 460. about as long as you have had your 350. Well actually you have had your 350. longer. I am wondering. I shot real high numbers with my 460. Now I shot a lot of pellets through the rifle and it was pretty smooth. But the whole time I shot my rifle I only used light pellets. Hobbey's, Meisterglukeins, and super domes.
Now you on the other hand, I would bet would be firing heavy pellets during the time you have owned the gun. I know you, and that seems to be your preference. Especially the Kodiak's. Could the firing of many Kodiaks made the spring more acute at firing those pellets? When the spring has been rested it will fire the first few pellets out fast, and then will go back to the state that it has been used on a normal basis? Could your rifle spring now be flexed to the Kodiak and the spring has been, from constant use, adjusted to that pellet. You drive race cars right? Well if a spring hits a curve over and over again, would not the spring get used to the curve and make the turn smoother? I would like to see the rife shoot Kodiak's on target. If they are really hitting with great accuracy but at a slower velocity, then you may have a winner with that pellet. On the other hand, I will not shoot kodiaks out of my 460. They are way too harsh. I do not feel that they are right for the gun.
Just my ramblings thoughts and inexperienced opinions.
up to something Dave! I had bought 2 tins of Kodiaks originally when I got the gun. When I first shot the gun, I went through about 100 CP's first, followed by a whole tin of 200 Kodiaks for the next couple of weeks because they were very accurate and I really liked the way they look I then shot another ~200-250 FTS, Superdomes & Crow Magnums mixed together at paper, followed by a couple of hundred CP's and then started going through the 2nd tin of Kodiaks, but what may be important here, is that 200 out of the first 300 shots of the gun's life, were Kodiaks! The heaviest pellets may not be the way to break in a springer. I think I should have been able to get up to the 690's like Gaylord's test 350. If I remember his article, he started with Meisterkugelns, CP's and other lighter pellets and tested the Kodiaks last. Maybe the lighter pellets break in the gun easier first and then you introduce heavier pellets. I know this is the opposite of what you are saying, which is start with heavy pellets first to get the spring and piston used to them and then go to lighter ones. I think it might be the other way around but I could be wrong.
My logic comes from having talked to automotive engineers and Ken Woods a few years ago who was a Honda race car driver (and now helps develop motors for Honda), on proper motor break-in.
I would think the first ~300 shots are very crucial to the break-in process and how the spring settles in, just like the first 200-300 hundred miles are VERY important when breaking-in a new motor in a car. You don't rev it high and vary your RPM's so that the pistons and rings are seated properly throughout the lower-mid RPM range. Then after ~600 mi. you start revving each gear higher & higher but you do it slowly and gradually. Hmmm.. so next time I break in a springer, I 'll start with Hobbies, then go to Meistergukelns, Trophies, then CP's, then JSB Exacts, finally Kodiaks. Slowly increasing the weight of the pellets. This would be a great question for Tom Gaylord's Blog!
Why not take the 350. shoot about 10 pellets throw the rifle without using the chrony. Then shoot 30 pellets through the gun in strings of 10. Eliminate the highest and the lowest number. Then do a average of the three. Do not mix up pellets. Chrony only one pellet a day.
Your guns sounds like a great gun, and I think you are worrying to much about velocity. From what you have said it sounds very accurate. It also sounds like it is shooting heavy Kodiaks with great accuracy. If this is the case, then I would presume that the velocity that you shot for the Kodiak is just right!
I just read your post/reply from yesterday. I never said I wanted to get rid of the 350! I will probably never sell it. I like it too much and I have invested too much time to learn how to shoot this hold-sensitive gun well. I said it has some scratches when the gun decided to fall from the tree all by itself after it was there for a while. I was then joking that I want to get ANOTHER one, that looks newer with no scratches. I actually looked at the gun more carefully today. They are barely noticeable indentations in the wood. Very tiny. You really have to look for them but some day a stock re-finish will take care of that little problem.
I spent about 1hr shooting JSB Exacts 15.8gr today since this is a new pellet for me and my 350. The gun seems to have a little more recoil with these pellets. It didn't take me long to figure out how they shoot. For some reason they shoot to the right more than the CP's, Superdomes and Beeman FTS (Heavy-weights Kodiaks and Crow Magnums always shoot slightly lower so I do not compare to those). About 1/4" to the right at 14.5-15yds which is my indoor home-made range, but they group well. Not sure why the POI shifts with the Exacts. I guess every pellet is different but I must have been lucky so far with all the others that shoot pretty similar except for the CP's that shoot slightly higher. I popped a couple of Superdomes in the 350 and bullseye, dead center, 1 hole shots. Tried a couple of CP's, same thing, dead-on. Try some Exacts again, POI to the right again. Shot about 75 Exacts. Only when I started getting closer to the target with the bipod, like at ~8yds did they seem to shoot more straight and to the center. The farther away I went, the more to the right the POI was. I then discovered if I held the forearm a little tigher in front of the trigger guard, the POI actually shifted back to the left but still a hair off from the others. Go figure. I 'm glad I figured it out because I really did not want to change the settings on the iron sights. We 'll see what happens when I put the scope on and sight it in at 25yds. If the POI difference is much greater than the other pellets, then I will just have to learn to adjust the scope and put it back for the other ones.
bet ya read that title twice ...
I've noticed I can force poi left or right by the postion of the thumb on my shooting hand . Thumb grasping around grip = poi shift to the right , central position just under safety (my normal spot) = centered poi and thumb to the right side of grip = poi shift left .Amount of the shift varies with amount of gripping pressure . Lotsa variables to consider shooting these springers .
more variables than some like That is why they say that a good springer rifle shooter will match or beat a Police sniper and most snipers, unless the sniper is an airgunner himself!
The subject line was fine, I got it the first time but I did look at it twice You see, there was a forum moderator at Edmunds.com for many years whose screen name was "Mr.Shiftright" (these were car forums). I always called him "Shifty" for short when I addressed him. So that word was not new to me, and afterall my post was mostly about a Shifting or Shifty POI anyway
It helps working from home sometimes so you can do some shooting while the neighbors are away 