Night & Day from his 1st video. He know has that 25 meter test tent (for 20m target) or air lodge as he calls all set up with lots of equipment. It definitely beats Gaylord's tests because Paul has cool special effects and there 's nothing like watching the reviewer and test being conducted on video.
Dave, you 'll be glad to see what gun he 's walking through the woods with to go Crow hunting He seems to be a Diana lover for sure, which is good for us. He 's about 1.5hr North of me. I have to pay him a visit. When I e-mailed Paul a couple of months ago after I saw his 850 video, he said I could come up when he has a few people up after he sets up the "air lodge". Looks like there 's great hunting opportunities up there and I think he said he owns 16 acres or so.
Enjoy "cooking" your 460 underlever! (watch video)
Good job to Paul. I hope RWS is paying attention. This is called marketing. Has he been picked up by PA to do these? The scenes in the woods etc. are a bit much. Just a good quick review of the rifle and a chrony test is all you need. It is nice to see the decimal test. Something that is really overlooked. I would like to see a decimal test done away from the shooter. Like at 10 yards, 25 etc. But all in all a great job. i is also nice to see the gun actually being fired. a close up and slow mo would also be nice. Also would like to see some targets at 40 yards.
I wonder where he got that from. Time for me to do some reserch. This little info commercials, are so easy to do, I wonder why all the big manufacturers do not incorporate these?
if the manufacturer did some sort of infomercial, it would be biased. TV time costs a lot of money. It's not worth it for them. They won't make their $ back.
I 'd rather see a video from someone neutral and objective testing the product.
Yeah slow-mo would be nice. You can't see the recoil of the 350 at all or the 460's. It looks like he 's firing a PCP!
I hope he got a few bucks from PA for this video. I mean how else can he recover some of the costs of all the equipment he had to buy to make the video? It's also very time consuming, especially the editing part. It's a nice way to make a name for himself so that manufacturers will send him their guns and pay him to do reviews.
It was actually the first time I saw how an under-lever works! I could not see that little switch to release the lever on any other pics. The 460 is also much shorter than I thought which I like. I had no idea the 34 was as long as the 350 either. It was a great idea for him to physically compare all 3. Very nice job indeed.
I have to disagree with you Harry. Little info commercials like this could very easily be done by Gun Manufacturers. How expensive can it be to place these on their web site? Who said anything about television? Their are many websites that sell Air rifles, PA,Cabellas, Bass Pro Shop and on and on. I actually like Tom Gaylords reviews. He has a wealth of knowledge about guns and I like how he will answer questions right after his review. Now if he did a little video like this, it would be great. As far as bis goes, I could care less. Every one is bias. If a manufacturer is proud of their product then they will show that in their video. What Paul may like in a gun and his personal bias, could very well be different than mine. I like the fact that BB (Gaylord) will answer your questions right away. I e-mailed Paul a few times never heard a word back. If he is not in the business, than that is is prerogative and so no big deal. Maybe Paul just does this for fun. But what a terrific Idea for someone who wants to get into the business. I really believe that Air Gunning is going to TAKE OFF! I think that Paint Ball etc, have brought more awareness to the sport. More and More people realize that centerfire and rimfire rifles are getting harder and harder to shoot. In Virginia Beach, the only out door range we had was recently lost do to development. Now we have none. I think you will start to see more gun shops opening up in America. I wonder if Paul, could be on to something?
Anyone watching the video of the 460. please take note. DO NOT cock the rifle like the author in the video. You will be in danger of having the pellet drop out of the barrel. It may dry fire, and worst could get stuck in the loading port. Get in the habit of cocking the rifle and bringing the rifle pointing the barrel DOWN!
- if you are not using pee-wees. One sign of an appropriate pellet is a snug press-fit in the breech. If your pellets are'nt snug, that is a problem in itself. Time to change brand/lot.
I was surprised at the decibel test; quieter than any springer results Straight Shooters has reported, including the R7 (??!?!). That can't be right, so must be a differences in equipment/methodology. W/O that consistency between reviewers, the db tests will be meaningless.
I thought I was the only one that believed the noise decibel levels were not accurate. There is no way a Magnum Springer has the same decibel level as a normal conversation! My (grumpy old) neighbor comes out of his home 60yds away whenever I shoot my 350 and I do it from inside the house shooting out the window. The barrel is almost always inside the house. How can he hear that, when I can't hear him talk with his wife at all when they are standing in their driveway? My neighbor across the street (pretty cool guy) said that he can sometimes hear my 350 from inside his house. Paul needs to re-check his equipment. Maybe putting the sensor on the table away from the gun is not the way to do it. It should probably be positioned right under the muzzle.
Dave:
I get what you 're saying. I agree. I thought you meant real "TV infomercials".
Harry, I was really confused by the decibel level test also. I took a simple recorder out to about 15 yards and recorded my voice, and let it play while listening to birds etc. I then shot my 34 and then the 460. The 460 was noticeably louder but did not sound that much louder than the 34. All certain days the gun does have a louder report. It seems to even be louder in certain temperatures. for some reason late afternoon is especially loud. I have no Idea. I want to get some friend of mine to come over and shoot the gun when I am 10, 20. 30. 40. 50. yards away, just so I know for myself how loud the guns are.
Harry, without looking at the video again, I think I remember the db level of conversation was 60-70 db and wasn't the 460 avg about 77 db?
The difference is the db is a log number or power of ten thing. If a sound is 1 bel louder than another it is 10^1 or 10X louder. If it is 1 decibel louder it is 10^(1/10) louder or 1.25X louder since deci is tenths. So, the 460 at 77 is 7 db louder than loud conversation or 10^(7/10) = 5X louder.
I hope this isn't too boring, but I taught physics and sometimes I can't control myself.
And Dave, you're so right about the pellets dropping out. Mine's a .177 and I had a couple fall down into the mechanism and really sweated till I shook them out. Also on my first day of shooting it dry fired once. The noise level was lots of db higher that time! I didn't have to guess what had happened.
Now I'm always sure to hold the barrel down when loading and bringing the "cooking" lever forward.
Thanks also to you Paul for a great video. I was also very impressed with the wood and metal finish on my 460 I got from PA.
I am not the only one that has brought this issue up. The 460 does indeed have a loading breech that is somewhat larger. Some pellets do fit fine, like crosmans premier. Some do not. They DO FALL OUT.
The problem with the light pellets falling out of the breech of a 460. has been mentioned by many owners of this gun. It has been posted on many forums. I had read about this fact well before I bought my 460. Lo and behold it was true. Believe me, when you dry fire your new rifle because you did not heed the advice of others, you learn a valuable lesson. Especially when the pellet falls in the loading breech. I hope other's DO heed this warning, OR JUST SHOOT NOTHING BUT PREMIERS OF KODIACKS.
Using loose pellets on a habitual basis is just as bad as dry-firing. An occasionaldry fire is not likely to hurt anything, and if it does, it will be the piston seal and springs - which are expendable, consumable items.
What would really worry me is trying to cock a sliding breech springer in some convuluted, clumsy non-ergonomic way, facilitaing in loss of control of the weapon while in mid-motion, resulting in an impact injury or digit amputation. Now, that's something to get hysterical about. That warrants "DANGER!!!!!" Probably not seals/springs, so much. But, to each his own, and c'est la vie.
Stepar, I think most readers will understand the danger I or caution I was referring to. In fact, now that you mention it, the way the author of the video was cocking the rifle on the table, did not seem all that safe, with the butt of the gun on a slippery table. I do not load any rifle with the barrel straight up in the air, with the butt on a table weather it is a rifle, shotgun or pellet gun.
The 460. does seem to have a larger breech then other RWS. I discovered this when the gun was new. I posted this fact on a few blogs and was responded by other owner's with agreement with this charateristic of the 460. I doubt fining any of the light pellets hurt the gun. some of the light pellets were RWS Brands, and my rifle still shootS with high velocity numbers and still very smooth. As far as pellet's go with the my 460. I only fire Crosman premiers, unless I will be doing some chrony test. I place the pellet into the breech pointing to the ground and close the chamber while the gun is still pointed down. But as you say. c'est la vie.
I appreciate you folks watching the video and giving your feedback--thanks!
I did not experience any pellets falling out of the 460's breech, and this can be due to slight differences in manufacturing-- all the test pellets seated deeply and firmly.
As for the decibel testing, understand that sound harmonics differ according to source position and testing equipment position--what may not be loud to the shooter can be louder to a neighbor or an observer just a few feet away. The sound cracking off a neighbor's clapboard siding will also sound different, depending on perspective
Paul, thanks for a great video on the much beloved 460, I will be doing a retake on pellets that fit loose in the gun. I want to verify it to see if I was mistaken. It could have been one pellet brand. Ok, now the big question. I would like to see you do some side by side comparisons of a Bam rifle compared to the one it is copying. For instance the Bam 40 vs the tx 200. I know Gaylord already did this and had high praise for the Bam. However a few guys on this blog will not accept the fact that a Chinese gun can be a great gun equivalent to the RWS.
Now a even bigger review would be the new Walther mag.Hunter in 25. cal.and the new Ben Sheridan streak. A lot of guys here are really interested in purchasing a 25. cal, but the cost are crazy. If the new Walther proves to be a good gun, that would really benifit a lot of people.
Another question. You have great reviews. Do you plan to do this in the future as a business, or sign on with a company like pyramid or what? Your videos are a refreshing change, that really do inform, as well as promote the air gunning hobby. Keep up the great work and please to not be a stranger to this forum.
I plan on getting to some reviews of the new Benjis (including the Streak and the new Discovery PCP's)and perhaps a few chinese imports, for side-by-side shootout with their originals. PyramydAir is currently the "broadcast network" so to speak and we do have a business arrangment to bring you folks many hours of objective, honest and informative reviews. I am an independent reviewer and a one person production team at the moment, so as I build momentum, the reviews will come faster. Thanks for watching the show!
If you need a cable boy or coffee boy or someone to help out while you are doing the next review, I will volunteer my time to be the assistant Director I don't live far from your Air Lodge. I promise I wont' make you laugh during video taping I volunteered as a cameraman in high school covering Football games and in our studio in College (in the '80's). We aired in local cable stations from both. I am a network architect now but was a technician and engineer for several years, so I have expert knowledge of Ethernet, various cabling types, etc.
Your recent video has come a long way and I enjoyed very much. I only have 1 suggestion if I may: I would like to see some more popular pellets tested on the guns you review besides the Crossman Premier, like JSB Exact Jumbo and Express (or Predator?), and Kodiak with the 20+FPE Magnums. These pellets are well known for their excellent accuracy and high ballistic coefficient. They are used in the field a lot with Magnum springers. I can supply these pellets as well
I also have a Beta chrony, and was thinking if you want to measure the velocity & energy downrange at the 10 or 20yd mark, at the same time you measure the MV. I bet you will get some interesting results between different guns.
Keep up the good work!
Harry
are welcome to contact me for guest appearences on the show. It's a laid-back, extremely informal and peaceful enviroment at the AGR Studio. Pets welcome!
I'm thinking of taping an indoor shootout at the Air Lodge, so be sure to let me know what airguns/pistols you can bring.
Paul, your work to this point is excellent. (Gamo will be in touch with you soon lol)
I like Tom Gaylord. I think he works as objectively as he can. I give him credit for what he does regardless of whose payroll he's on. That said, the competition you've provided is going to up the professionalism of both your efforts and that's even better. Different views of many of the same air rifles.
Another benefit to the consumer is going to be that they can see two seperate individuals work to provide the most accurate information (pardon the pun) from their points of view.
Here's another added benefit that should be on the minds of prospective buyers; that testing of two examples of the same model airgun, independantly rendered, gives a slightly broader baseline. What I mean is, Is there a particular finish flaw that each testor discovers? A shooting trait? These are the things buyers are going to love to know beforehand.
You're not just selling the product, you're selling the experience. The experience becomes an adventure. While the consumer can't be you, they can sure own the things that put the smile on your face and the gleam in your eye. And then they can create their own adventures.
Good conversation. I also saw the video and it was what convinced me to go an take a plunge buying a 460. I had been looking at three or four that where on the racks of the bargain cave at Cabela's. For under $500 I got the combo that looked like it had never been fired. I checked every screw for signs of dismanteling, checked the scope and mounts for signs it had ever had one on. Everything led me to believe the gun, if ever purchased, was truly never used or maybe fired a couple of times.
I think I got a beauty. Chrony numbers are very consistent! Average of 829 at an altitude of 5,000 feet above sea level. with a standard deviation of only 3, and an extreme spread of only 10! with Premiers 14.3 gr.
Things I don't like that Paul did not mention. The cocking sounds somewhat rough to me. It is like metal gringing on hollow wood. Also when the gun is cocked and before returning the lever it just hangs there semi-rattly. If you move the gun around the lever almost feels loose. If anyone else has a very different lever behavior let me know before my 30 days are up at Cabelas for returns.
I love the power, the consistency and how well the gun shoots. I am still working on open sights because I simply love doing it that way.
I used the scope it came with on a different gun and the scope is truly wonderful. It comes with a 30 mm tube and mine came both with a C mount and also with double rings with stop pins hiding inside (if you turn them upside down). I just wish the scope was a mil dot, especially since it has an illuminated reticle.
I compared the power of this gun with the RWS52 I have (got two in .22, that is how mucy of a freak I am) Both of the other guns shoot averages of 771 and 730 fps. respectively. My 54 in .22 shoots averages of 720 (which shows it has the exact same action as the 52 and 48 models other than the floating recoil-less action)
One interesting thing is that my Diana 34 .22 shoots very consistently at around 644 so this gun in comparison to the 48,52,54 series is not much different and a huge value for the money!!
Consider this: With a Ballistic Coefficient of .019 (for Premiers 14.3gr) the correction needed at a speed of 644 (Diana 34) at 40yards is 1.7 inches upward, while the Diana 54 at as speed of 720 would require a correction of 1.25. Half inch difference in correction at 40 yards hardly makes me want to run and buy a 54 over a 34! Especially when the 54 tops at about 10 lbs of weight with a scope!! Accuracy may be a factor due to the rail system of the 54, but good shooting skills can overcome this.
Well, I could go on and on, but though I would add my 2cents.
Yes, that is correct. I am using a prochrono (anyone else have that chrony and what do you think about it?). Numbers seem consistent with the 54, and both 52's. One of my 52's shoot a little stronger than the other with numbers averaging 770s while the second Diana52 averages 730's. However the first rifle has several shots through it while the second if fairly new with less than 200 pellets shot.
The 54 has been shot quite a bit and it is a little lower than the others. I wonder how much of the difference is due to the recoil-less mechanism. It seems logical to me that as the rifle fires and the action flies backward about an inch on rails it has to "negate" the forward motion of the pellet subtracting some of its kinetic energy. Let me put it this way. If the rifle itself was able to travel at the same speed but opposite direction as the pellet when detonation occurs, I believe I am right in assuming (if my college physics is not too rusty) that the pellet would not go very far at all. Therefore the recoil-less action must have a small negative effect on speed in comparison to the rifles who having no such action use the mass of the steady rifle to force the pellet at a slightly greater speed. (those of you with greater physics background can help here.)
The 460 is about 100 fps. faster than the 52,54 and about 190 fps faster than a Diana 34 model.
At least the test on my rifles go a little counter BB Pelletier's observation that the 460 has about the same power as the 52.
What I still cannot comprehend is the advertisement all these stupid companies make about speeds over 1100 fps on .22 guns! To achieve that it would have to be done exclusively with pellets you never want to use anyway like raptors, and at sea level with hand-picked guns and a defective chrony!
the back and forward recoil on spring guns are noticible on the gas it is all BACK
the pellet is spit out of the barrel in 7.8 mil seconds and the back and forward movement takes more than 30 mil seconds
this negates the theory of loss of air since the pellet has already been launched out of the barrel at this speed
then the logical answer is the air chamber capacity and the mechanics of the piston on air or gas rams are different
still the 460 throws the 14.3 at 820 fps on a tune rifle in a sping package and the 54 at 790
how is it that the 48 and 52 does not do the same in sping too? I mean the speed of the pellet vs the 460, what does the 460 have that is different to the 52
interesting
and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"
Warren, there is no gas ram in a Diana 54. The recoil is negated by allowing the weight of the action to move freely in the direction it wants to, without the stock doing the same. In essence what's happening is the rifle you're holding is still while the action inside the rifle you're holding is being allowed to move back from its own recoil due to the piston moving forward and back again.
The idea is to eliminate user error by collecting all recoil within the mechanism before it transfers to the user. Before the user can be affected by it and thus muff the shot. So the action rides on rails and the stock is isolated from the action.
I would most definitely go with Cabelas in your purchase. I bought my 34 from Bass pro shops and they were great. I returned the first one, due to a small blemish, and they took it back with no questions asked. If you have a store in your area then great. I think a 460. is a rifle you could not go wrong on. I think the price will just go up and up.
The 460 is similar in power to the 350, which is more than 48/52/54. The springs are different and the volume of displaced air inside the chamber is greater, etc.
A non-tuned but broken-in 460 will do 840-860fps with CP 14.3 just like the 350. Airbethere I believe said his 460 .22 is around that much with CP's. That is pretty darn good.
Dave said his 460 .22 gets 880 or 890fps but I have to see it with my own eyes to believe it. He called them "CP lights" in his post, so I 'm not sure he was testing his 34 or 460, and got the 2 guns confused. He must have a 460 on steroids if he 's getting 890fps (almost 26FPE!) with CP's Airgun reporter's average or max. was 820-830 but it was not too broken in. In any case, the 460 & 350 are easily a couple of foot-pounds higher than 48/52/54. They don't share the same powerplant.
If you're going by the numbers the factory gives, its just a matter of the 460 being a fixed barrel versus the 350 being a break barrel. Naturally there will be firing characteristics that differ in the two models and even more variation from rifle to rifle. But the 460 should have more repeatable accuracy (in theory) than the break barrel which barrel lockup may vary over time and wear of the breech lock mechanism.
But in the real world very few people are going to shoot well enough to see the difference between the fixed and break barrel. You'd have to measure the break barrel lockup from shot to shot differences in the hundreds of thousands of an inch.
Who says the 460 is more accurate than the 350? Like Harv said in theory, the 460 should be slightly more accurate, but if you and your 460 go against someone who can really shoot the 350, and has it well broken in or tuned, you will lose a shooting match with your 460. It's all up to shooter. If you know your gun well and what pellets it likes and how each pellet shoots, there won't be much difference between the two. The 460 they say is easier to shoot accurately because it fires smoother from the factory. The 350 you have to work at it. Some people who opened up their 460 say the gun has gone through some debur & hone at the factory and may not have as many metal imperfections as the 350, 34, or other springers. I don't know how true that is, but the 350 does smooth out with time and with lots of shots. I plan on getting mine lube tuned with debur, etc. soon but will probably keep the stock spring for now, until I can find a comparable powered spring (don't know much about the Arctic spring) from JM or whoever. I hear the 350 shoots much nicer once tuned but I like mine the way it is now. I can imagine after the tune.. I have taken squirrels more than 30yds out without a scope.. there is no reason for me not to like my 350 or not recommend it, but I will not push it on anyone. I admire the 460 and believe that just for the extra cost it must be a better gun, and have recommended the 460 to many, especially on other forums just because it's a Diana and a fixed barrel. I have not shot other Dianas so I rarely recommend the 350 over others. I recommend ALL Dianas.
This is probably the 20th time I write this Warren but I 'll repeat it for you. The MAIN reason and probably the only reason at the time I bought the 350 .22, was to take care of the groundhogs on my property. The 350 within 3 weeks of ownership took all the 4 groundhogs, 3 with ease (1 head/neck shot - quick kills) and the 4th died in his hole that night or next day after the pellet missed its head because the crappy RWS C-Mount windage screws had come loose unbeknownst to me. It did the job I bought it for and was very greatful and liked it for that reason alone, but as I used the gun more and learned to handle its quirks, (and 15 squirrels later on open sights) it made me fall in love with it. Enjoy your Dianas, they 're all great! Show me a Diana that "sucks"..
Harry, I have no doubt that you are a good shooter. I believe you really get in to it. I would hate to be a ground hog that was brought up in your back yard. Like being brought up in the hood. Chance of living is pretty slim. Now my question to you is this.
YOU OWN A 350 MAG.
YOU OWN A 460 MAG.
YOU SHOOT 5OOO ROUNDS THROUGH THE 350 MAG.
YOU SHOOT 5000 ROUNDS THROUGH THE 460 MAG.
YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON A 60 YARD SHOT AT A HOG, AND YOU MUST MAKE A CLEAN SHOT THROUGH THE EAR
YOU ONLY HAVE ONE SHOT
WHAT GUN DO YOU CHOOSE?
NO CRAP ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE AND HAD NOT SHOT, JUST YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT YOUR REALLY BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART, WOULD PLACE THAT PELLET IN THE EAR! PERIOD!
Seriously though, I try to limit my shots to 40yds. If I don't target practice at that distance, I do not take the shot.
I know what you 're trying to say, and make me say, so I will NEVER say it!! Give it up Dave!
I think our 850's are going to be our go-to guns from now on!
Harry, I may have made a mistake in the pellet I was using when I gave that report. I was excited about using my new chrony and it was getting dark quick. I did in fact get that number while shooting the 22. cal 460 with a pellet. Today I did a chrony and was about right with a average of 840 with the cps. The fact that I said cp lights had absoultly nothing to do with the post! I am shooting cps now in 22. cal 14.3 gr and in my mind consider them lite. I also did the Hobbys today and was shooting a consistent 910 + with many shots at 917-918. I need to also shoot the Meisterklugins, and the super domes to see what they do. The numbers I reported earlier were real, the pellet may be wrong. I will shoot more to see where that string matches up with the other pellets. Something tells me I may have mixed it up wither the Meisters. Now, maybe you can sleep without all the cp demons going on in your head.
resolution! I can bring closure to the nightmare of your 460 .22 shooting CP's at 890fps What a relief. I can sleep now
This further proves that the 460 & 350 are very comparable, although my 350 shoots many CP's in the 850's as well as 840's (I don't count an 860 here and there). FTS 14.5gr shoot consistently in the 850-860 range. What a fine pellet. Superdomes are in the 840's as well.
There was a reason that gun shot those numbers that day. I still believe they were cps. I not only used the chrony, but also wrote the numbers down on a tablet and wrote premiers on the tab. I still have that tab. I still want to shoot another day when the weather is warmer. How about shooting Hobbys and tell me what you get. If you are getting 915 plus, then I have something to go on. SS shot Hobbies at 867 fps with the 350, and 875 fps with the 460.mag. My gun still did over 40 fps faster than those. I was getting up to 919 today with many shots in that range. If you could shoot those today, and also some Meisterklugins, I would appreciate it. Just in, I shot the Meisters in average of 842 with highest at 854 about 20 so feet more that SS's average of their 350 of 820 and about 10 fps of SS's 833 psf for the 460.
That said, all this really makes no difference. If my gun is shooting at the velocities that I did today, than that is fine with me. A 22. cal that shoots 800 plus is all that anyone should ask.
Thanks
I went to the car and found my results of the first chrony. Compared to the results I took today, it looks as if I was shooting Hobbys as opposed to the CP's. All in the 910 range.
Just to clarify some of the previous posts. No, the 54 does not have a gas ram, just the regular spring. What I contended was that at the moment the spring is let go there is a counter-action produced by the anti-recoil mechanism. If you push off a person and you yourself are standing still the power behind your push will be "x". If the next time you push off the same person with the same power but you, yourself are moving backwards as you push, the overall power will be diminished.
I was just saying that perhaps (emphasis on perhaps) the difference of power (760's vs 720's) I am finding between the 52's and the 54 is due to this mechanism.
Heheh I enjoyed your post: "go shoot some Hobbies and Meisters today and let me know what you get". Yessum'boss! What makes you think I have those pellets?!?
How about you go shoot some JSB Exact Jumbo's, Beeman FTS and Crow Magnums and get back to me by 5pm? I know you don't have those pellets, but I do!
I buy pellets that I can use for hunting. Hobbies & Meisterkugeln's are not as good for hunting. 500 Superdomes came with the cleaning kit and have been using them mostly for target shooting. There is only ~100 left now.
Forget Straightshooter's #'s. I 'm consistently getting 30fps more with my 350 with most pellets (except Kodiaks), and 60+fps more with JSB Exact 15.8's than they reported. SS says 745 and I consistently get >800fps. I wonder if some are just typo's or they didn't take the average and took the lowest # by accident. Most likely they used the very low #'s like 600fps, and averaged the entire group using wacky #'s instead of throwing them out. I hardly ever got 823 with CP's and Superdomes as SS lists them for 350 (same # for both CP & SD? hmm..). Superdomes shoot consistently in the 840's and I'm looking at an old piece of paper here and there were 2 under 840, an 839 & 836. I even got a couple of 850's. I think SS #'s can be used to get the general idea, and for the most part they are in the ballpark, like Kodiaks in my 350 average exactly what SS reported. Very few seem to be way off like the JSB Exact 15.8 but I 'm sure glad mine shoots 60fps more. You saw the pics of my Chrony results from the JSB's 10+days ago right? 23FPE - and this pellet loses very little energy down range with a higher BC than CP's! I love this pellet. I get <10fps spread with them almost all the time.
Why are we talking about this here? We 're in the wrong thread! I think you should have called that other Chrony thread you started: "Dave's vs. Harry's chrony #'s!" heheh Com'on you know you want your 460 to shot faster than my 350, admit it!! LOL!
(hint: there is a reason the RWS box of my 350 says: "most powerful RWS model" on it.. haha)
I think you know Harry that Jbs. are hard to get. Good try. I would have some now but I cancelled my order with Pa, and will just have to wait. Meisters on the other hand can be bought anywhere. I think you have heard me mention many times that power is way over rated. It only makes someone think they have a great gun. I have coached many runners that toed the line with "fast powerful" runners and kick there butt in the long run. The truth comes down to the smmothness, and honesty of the gun Harry. Big explosions are for the crowds.
I wish I could find our crony,But all I know is pellet for pellet (same range)my 350 will penetrate at leaste one side of a 55 gal. oil drum consistantly while only the strongest of shots (Seldom) from my 460 will get trough it. Take that for what it's worth.
the 350 will go through one side of an oil drum?? Dang! with what pellet? Isn't that solid steel?
Well I think we always knew the 350 has a little more "oomph.." than 460 Believe it or not 10fps or 1ft-lb sometimes makes a difference. I also think in defense of the 460 (I own 350), that it seems to have a greater velocity variation between different 460's than the 350 for some reason, so maybe a strong 460 will be equal to the 'average' 350..?
And yes the steel is thicker than you would think any airgun could get trough. Thats what made me an instant fan of the 350. It was the first airgun that ever amazed me on any level.
2 pellets fire at same velocity and only 1 penetrates?
January 24 2008, 4:28 AM
John, glad to hear you have two nice guns. Just curious, is it true that no two guns are the same? I mean, is it true that some guns perform better if shot longer, or some guns shoot one pellet over another better? I have a 460 that seems to shoot lighter pellets a lot faster than most 350's on a chrony, but not heavier pellets. Would it be possible that someone else could report that a 460 could shoot through a steel barrel consistently and their 350 not as consistent, or will they all perform exactly as your gun? There have been many on line reports of chrony test with both guns. Now, I am a little confused, because most reports I have seen vary quite a bit, so help me out here. Suppose a cp pellet is traveling at XX speed and hits a steel barrel fired from a 350 and penetrates it, would the same pellet fired from a 460 at the same velocity do the same thing, or will it only penetrate the barrel if fired through the 350? I never have been very good at physics, and your comments really have me puzzled. I wonder if maybe a chronograph would be useful in a statement like you have made?
That was exactly my piont. My 460 is not up to the same volocity as the No, My M350. And it dosnt take a super smart fella to see it. Now, Out smart me on that ? You can make rocket science out of anything, but some things in this world dont need it. Unless you just find it entertaining ?
He seems to be a Diana lover for sure, which is good for us. He 's about 1.5hr North of me. I have to pay him a visit. When I e-mailed Paul a couple of months ago after I saw his 850 video, he said I could come up when he has a few people up after he sets up the "air lodge". Looks like there 's great hunting opportunities up there and I think he said he owns 16 acres or so. 