The idea of owning a .25cal has always appealed to me but if I can have one with 29-30FPE, even better!
I 've been reading that there is a Theoben gas (struts) ram conversion kit for them as well as Webley/Beeman gas kit that recently came out. This gas conversion kit also reduces cocking effort by 5+lbs and makes the gun slightly more powerful and smoother. So I think I may get a used Beeman Kodiak .25 or Webley Patriot and do the gas conversion and then I 'll have a new gas ram rifle like the new series gas Patriot Tom Gaylord recently tested in December, which will be available new (Beeman Kodiak too) later this month.
I have found Theoben gas conversion kits for $149 so I 'm thinking maybe buying a used Patriot/Kodiak + the price of the conversion kit might still be cheaper than buying one of these .25cal gas guns new. The Theoben gas strut systems are the same ones they use in their $1,000 Eliminator/Crow Mangum rifles. Top of the line stuff. Any comments, ideas?
Rick! I gotta think about this. Found another .25 Kodiak for $400 that is in great shape, but the guy won't tell me how old the gun is The pics look good though. I guess the Theoben gas Kodiak is probably the better deal. I wonder why Beeman never put checkering on the forearm, cheap bas***ds..
Decisions, decisions.. How much $ do you guys think the new Patriot/Kodiak gas .25's that Gaylord tested, will go for? $600-700? or more? less? How much did these guns cost new before they stopped making them (about 6mos ago)?
I haven't been in the airgun scene to give you an honest answer . Do you have a seller repuatation review to go on for either one ? Are they both set up same or similar ? Have you checked individual reviews of each gun in question ? Do you feel either seller is hiding any facts ?
I saw the Turkish Webley's at Pyramyd for $423 brand new. That seems to be only slightly higher than a used UK Webley Patriot on the classifieds. Now I understand that maybe the UK guns are more desireable and may have a perceived higher level of quality. I don't know, I have never owned a Webley so I can only speak of what others have written. But if you bought a brand new Turkish Webley from PA w/ the gas ram conversion, there would be some sort of warranty. You won't get that with a second hand gun. Maybe a real stand up seller would let you return the gun if you were truly unhappy with some aspect of it. Just a different angle on things.
*I can not understand for the life of me, why anyone would not buy the Turkish model over the British. Harry, I am sorry about your personal views on the politics of the Turkish government. But it makes no sense to blame the people for making a fine product. Blame Beeman, or who ever if you want, but I would focus on the quality of the rifle. I have a Russian rifle that I love. It does not mean I love the Russians. I have an Italian rifle, but I do not always agree with their politics. I think Robert Beeman's views on Global Warming are full of baloney, but that does not mean I would not buy a Beeman air rifle. I brought up this subject about the new 25. cal over a week ago and pretty much got shot down. Now, after some common sense, it is now, taking a second look by the 25. cal power horse guys as a very serious 25. cal rifle. If I was in the market I would purchase this rifle in the Turkish Version in a New York second!! Gaylord, emphatically stated that the Turkish model was far superior than the British model. I believe him. But if you do not like Gaylord, then I would check it out for myself to see if he was right or wrong. It seems this new rifle is a 25.CAL DREAM GUN! Imagin a gun that literally love the Kodiak heavy pellet!
"Bottom line?
If you fancy a Patriot, get one with a gas spring. If you already own one, have it converted. It makes all the difference in the world."
for your opinions guys. I may wait to see how much these gas ram Turkish-made guns go for. If the prices are very high I 'll go for an used one and have it upgraded.
Harry, this 850. is a blast. Can you imagine shooting a very accurate rifle right out of your bedroom window without any noise what so ever? About as loud as an ordinary stapler gently stapling a piece of paper, if that. What a great way to hone your marksmanship skills.
Harry, I really do not have many guns. The 34, and the 460, the Baikal, Now the 850 rounds out my inventory. I will be taking the little 1077 back to the store. No sense in that gun with the 850. I like to shoot out the window, but it was becoming pain in the neck always checking to see if anyone was within hearing range. The 850 is so much fun. Well worth the money. Starling will not have a chance at 40 yards out. It is so quiet, I would not be surprised to shoot them in a bunch, without them flying off. The only sound they will hear is the impact.The gun is extremly accurate. I am going to give the buying a rest for a while. I now have a great "Light Power sringer 10 meter rifle. "mid power springer" a Magnum 22. Springer and now a plinking co2. target rifle.
I can even shoot this gun, while my wife watches her soap, and she would not hear a thing!
I own one and cocking effort does not go down with a ram it actually goes up by about 5 lbs but it does smooth out the shot cycle. A good tune on a spring will do the same thing. Power levels between the two systems remains about the same.
was about $575 (give or take$20) on the net a couple of years back. UK made Patriots were about $100 less. Most of the Kodiaks I've seen used have been in the $400-$450 range (unmodified).
L.E. and Al!
That's the info I was looking for. Much appreciated sirs!
PS.
The consensus on the boards seems to be that the Turkish made Patriots or Kodiaks will not hold their value as well as the older UK made ones. What do you guys think about that? I think it all depends how the Turkish guns will turn out to be. If they 're great reliable and accurate shooting guns, then I 'll think they 'll do ok, but there might always be someone who wants to pay slightly more for a Europeon one I guess.
The price for either is about the same. Personally I would stay with the spring. My ram leaked down a couple of months ago and I put the spring back in. The ram was about 5 years old. I couldn't tell much of a difference in the shot cycle plus springs are readily available from JM at about 1/5 the price of a ram. Would I do it again? No.
I am not sure, I would shoot all the dogs, just because one of them has fleas. 5 years sounds like a lot of good shooting. But thanks for the info. This really is a great site for for real information.
If you're in this hobby long enough, sooner or later you'll open up your gun and want to tinker. Not much to do with a ram. A springer might be a little rough out of the box, but it responds nicely to a lube tune. A gas ram you can pretty much shoot right out of the box and never touch it as long as there is no bleed down. I've shot rams and springers and I prefer a nice springer. Not much of a difference if it's right. A whole lot of difference if it's not, but that can usually be fixed.
"but I'll be needin' that gun, fer squirrels and such."
I was thinking the exact same thing. The "spring" is easier to work with and tune compared to gas ram.
Can you please tell me how you determine how OLD a Kodiak (or a Patriot) is? I 've asked this guy that's selling one twice how old the gun is. Finally he said there is no date stamped anywhere on it, but it is stamped with:
"Beeman Santa Rosa". Anyone know if this something of significance, out of the ordinary, or are they all like that?
BTW, he turned down my offer which was only $25 less than the asking price.. I think I was pretty fair considering I don't know how old the gun is (or he won't tell me), and the pics he sent were not that good to determine the condition of the gun. I only received pics for the right side of the gun. I asked for pics of the other side, and never received them either. He did say this is an English made Kodiak and that he bought in November, but is selling it because 2 weeks later he was able to buy one new in the box. I thought new English made Kodiaks (and Patriots) have not been available since the summer..
L.E!!
That's a little too old for me I think. I don't want to go through the expense of refinishing the stock and/or reblueing. Did Kodiaks have the same power (29-30FPE) 20-25yrs ago as the ones today? I thought this kind of power in springers was not produced until 10-15yrs ago ('90's). For $425 that he 's asking I think I can do better because it sounds like this gun is going to need a lot maintenance or parts replaced so it may end up costing me $600+ since I wouldn't do the work myself. I 'm also a little weary that he kept it only a month or so before selling it.
In the mid 1970s, Beeman was located in San Rafael. They stayed there until they outgrew the location in the late 1980s.
In the late 1980s, they constructed a large commercial building in Santa Rosa, about 45 miles north of San Rafael. The company moved to Huntington Beach in the early 1990s after Dr. Bob sold the company.
Remember, Beeman never made a gun, so the discussion of which warehose held it is pointless. It just serves to help with determining the age of the gun. Put it this way - the value of the weapon won't be going down if it's cared for. If it's what you want, pay the asking price and buy it.
"but I'll be needin' that gun, fer squirrels and such."
That gun didn't see any major changes since introduction. Same spring and swept volume I believe. I don't think the specs changed unless it has a tired spring.
"but I'll be needin' that gun, fer squirrels and such."
San Anselmo was the original Beeman location,then San Rafael,THEN Santa rosa,soon followed by Huntington Beach,which begat many cheap Spanish and otherwise copies of former Beeman/HW glory.Oh well,tomas
The pics look good though. I guess the Theoben gas Kodiak is probably the better deal. I wonder why Beeman never put checkering on the forearm, cheap bas***ds..
