but for years now has been/is making shoddy, crappy, cheapo airguns
doesn't win me over, make me a fan, mesmerise me, etc.

When many of the positive posts about their guns are from guys that
have had and/or done it themselves many mods, aftermarket parts, tuning,
etc. and the negative posts are often stock/factory guns it makes it clear
to me they are making turdish airguns.

I'm not anti-tweaking/tuning/modding/customizing - I'm just saying I don't
care much for AG manufacturers that used to make decent guns and then some
where along the way decided to make cheaper and cheaper crap.

Doesn't matter what they call/name their guns - Space Stalker, Zip Zam
Bammer, Rocket Streak, Laser Blaster, etc. I'm not Pied Pipered, mesmerised
by "all that".

"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities;In the master's mind few."

I've greatly reduced the airgun hassles, headaches, bullsh*t in my airgun
experience. Lots more shooting and enjoying. The big brown truck is usually
and mostly bringing heavy boxes full of pellets - just pellets.

Man, I am so on the same page. But I want to balance that with one thing I've been thinking about regarding the new Discovery (pardon the pun).

That rifle isn't geared to those who really are into the airgun world. Its a fresh and price point dictated entry into the pcp world for a new group of prospective airgunners who are used to the newer Crosman/Daisy/what's on the Walmart shelf type of airguns. It can only be a mod rifle for the rest of us. And believe me, Crosman will sell that first round to experienced tuners and machinists.

Its the gateway gun. Good enough for a few grins, but it foretells of another world of shooting. I think people should just let it be what it is.

I won't be getting one either but that's only because I'm not into pcp's.

Harv

I just don't care for all the hype, exaggerations, tricks, evasions,
threatening to ban anyone that speaks out, etc.

The tuners/modders/aftermarket parts makers/airgunsmiths/etc. are
excited and won't speak out against, won't say this or that can't
be true, isn't possible, etc. - they're going to make $$$ off it!

Why can't a newbie or not-quite-airgun-nut-yet be steered, directed
toward a decent airgun out of the box from the get-go? It's as though
many quite knowledgable airgun guys want them to go through a lot of
crap, bucks $$$, headaches just like many of them did.

The best AG Forums knowledgable to very knowledgable airgun guys
tell it like it is - the good, the bad and the ugly.

If the well-known (in the "airgun world") airgun writer (he's had books,
magazine articles published, etc.) writes some crap he needs to be blasted,
confronted. Same with some pro tuner, smith, etc.

No doubt more than a few guys have left airgunning because of lies, rip-offs,
crooked tuners, etc. Airgunning won't really begin to grow until a lot of
environmental cleaning up occurs.

because you KNOW way to much about the new Discovery and that is a new PCP gun

your second paragragh describes exactly what Benjamin is trying to do with this PCP "fresh and price point"

on the 3rd. para. "gateway gun" is a brilliant example of the marketing strategy crosman is doing with the Disco

and now my take; Joshua at the crosman web works for Crosman. I do not know in what capacity but he has leaked some info on his posts at that forum like "run up sales #'s" he stated they were encouraging, did not provide #'s but put it as "encouraging". This is what Crosman expects to sell of this product (Disco) based on initial orders

entry level is another thing he talks about with the same words you wrote, the Disco has been made available to some Mod guy's like Mountain Air so that they can ahead of time see the prototype and start making conversions and plan Mod's for it. On major mod is the trigger

with the Benjiman Streak and the Disco, crosman is bringing new products to the market in PCP and spring formats and they are expecting very good results

Interestingly the Disco is USA made and Streak is Chinese

warren

and remember "it's 30% the gun and 70% the shooter"